R.O.B. Match-Up Discussion Week #1: Meta Knight

Go. My analysis soon.

FINALLY thxthxthx

OK my post of bs on how to fight MK:


1. Don't get hit

2. Do not get under him if he's trying to gimp you, get way up high and then down ASAP, his gimping is two gud so the best for now is to just avoid it. Really nothing is guaranteed safety. I don't believe trying to end a nair on him is going to do anything (his up b [and fair?] beat it.)

3. Be careful with Glide tossing forward, the gyro can go right over his head if you're not careful.

4. MK has insane sliding grabs that they like to spam (usually as a down throw), be weary of this. This means spot dodging is a nice friend here, but don't forget the average 'original Metaknight' (if they exist) who will mind game you and do that or fair, or Usmash. The best players always switch their options, but dash grabbing is popular with mk. Now if they're standing next to you, not dashing, whole other game. They'll probably dsmash/Fsmash or Nado/upB instead.

5. Laser rhaeps Tornado. (does the laser have the best priority in the game? apparently the only thing that stops it is the floor >_>). All you need to do is aim it at MK. You can also shoot a Gyro at the base but it's not guaranteed. pluss that will only stall it not attack them, so they can just start another.

6. If they start their jab...combo ... thing (not ftilt combo), it will be followed up with something (usually Dsmash.) SDI and do your thing, and you should be able to counter with a fair or ftilt. laser if you're feeling lucky.

Doesn't bair go through glide attack? Or maybe it clanks with it... Save your nair for the kill, it's not worth it to spam because it's one of the easy to land kill moves. Some metaknights are pretty stupid and seem to like dtilting towards you from across the stage, wtf? I'm pretty sure a downtilted ftilt'll outrange that.

no it doesnt, i've gotten punished for it plenty of times. nair's not as disjointed as bair, so you might get hit from the glide

How to fight Metaknight-

1.Go to tourney where Meta is banned

Ok ok, seriously here we go. Metaknight is a clear advantage.

You've got to be VERY careful with Metaknight's up b. It can kill R.O.B. at 60 w/ poor DI or anywhere after 75 if fresh and you're off the side. R.O.B. dying at less than 130 is a waste of a stock for the most part. Metaknight and also juggle R.O.B. with up air, so you gotta be careful to play that too.

Play a ground game, do not challenge metaknight in the air. Utilize the Gyro/F-tilt/lasers to slow the momentum of Metaknight. Short hops are useful, but ultimately spacing is key. You need to have Azen like spacing to win against Metaknight. Tilts are so critical for this, but this matchup is VERY difficult for everyone.

For killing- D-smash is a no, too easy to DI and is much better served for damage. If you die first, and have a fresh d-smash and meta is over 130%, it would probably work as a kill move.

N-Air is your savior, use it as a fake for spacing. B-air is a great kill move, but metaknight is hard to hit with it. F-Smash, but save it. If you hit with the right angle it is super difficult to DI. U-smash is almost useless as most metaknights will always dodge this. Sniper kills if they DI. Do NOT chase Metaknight. Ever.

ipitydatfu said:

no it doesnt, i've gotten punished for it plenty of times. nair's not as disjointed as bair, so you might get hit from the glide

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Ftilt doesn't outrange his dtilt, or bair's disjoint doesn't clank with the glide attack?

I went to a tourny this Saturday and played DSF's MK first round (I came late so I had to fill in his bye >_<). He's not the greatest MK in the world, but he's pretty calculating good and I did pretty dang decent, bringing him down to dangerously high one-stocks each time.

Like honestly, the whole time, all I did was poke, laser/gyro, shield, and glide-toss to down-smash. All of my kill moves were n-air or up-smash. The only reason they worked was because I did them as unpredictably as I could and mixed in the old d-tilt every now and then.

When he tornadoed, which he did somewhat sparingly as he always does, I just shielded the whole thing, tilting as necessary, and waited for him to fall. If it was nearby for some reason, I'd poke and run, otherwise I'd try to projectile him.

When I recovered, I simply went as high as possible, and it was usually faster than Meta Knight could rise to reach me with a Shuttle Loop, so most of the time by the time I made it above stage I was safe (we only played I believe it was Smashville at first and then Final Destination, because platforms were not an issue).

All of the ways I died were through gimps and running out of gas. There was only one out-right kill and it was a ceiling kill, which was surprising.

I think if there were platforms, I would've gotten wrecked a lot more quickly.

On the other hand, I did a friendly with him immediately afterward and played Ganondorf and I killed his MK with 37% left on my still surviving first stock until my next match immediately came up, hehe. (although I'm sure he was sandbagging like hell once he saw I picked Ganny, lol)

T-REX! said:

Ftilt doesn't outrange his dtilt, or bair's disjoint doesn't clank with the glide attack?

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Lowered f-tilt will clank with the d-tilt, but then the d-tilt will just come out again much faster. When DSF was d-tilting I used my own d-tilt and it worked well enough for him to back off and try something else.

B-air will hit through the glide-attack if spaced perfectly. I did this to DSF at least once and then he stopped glide attacking me.

T-REX! said:

Ftilt doesn't outrange his dtilt, or bair's disjoint doesn't clank with the glide attack?

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i was talking about glide (sorry, bad writing) it sorta clank, i just never hear it i guess.

YES I just played Redhalberd, I'm fresh from MK practice.

I'd stick with everything in my first post. They dash grab 2tooooootwotwo70000 much. Them jumping out of a fair can still be solved with a spotdodge. If they glide attack,l hold shield, wait for them to Dsmash, hold shield again, punish with dsmash (maybe jab.)

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE BAIR AGAINST AN MK that likes to come onto the stage with Side B. I baired it like twelve times, doesn't do a thing.

In fact I'll make a list.

Things that ROB's bair can break: Nair, Dtilt, Jab combo, part of up B
Things that just clash with bair: glide attack
Things to screw and shield: everything else

You still have to get crazy lucky if you want to come back to the stage not gimped. Again, go up high, [try to] bait something to get an airdodge. Grab the ledge if you can take it, but don't let him hit you on it, recover as fast as possible.

Whenever you get the chance to uair, for the love of God or Satan or Gene Simmons or whoever you believe is holy, TAKE THE UAIR!!!! It'll beat his dair, glide attack, and almost all these other torture tools.

Also note your dash attack seems to have better priority than his.

Dtilt works surprisingly well. Especially when it trips. Metaknights are trained so well in gimping, offense and such, when they're tripped, they can be hit with a bus. I got a nice jab> D tilt > fair > Bair > Ftilt combo on him. Dtilts also fack their overused and old dash attacks and sliding grabs.


*takes deep breath* *falls*

hows his MK? his falco seems to rhaep me pretty hard

ipitydatfu said:

hows his MK? his falco seems to rhaep me pretty hard

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It's a tiny bit better than his Falco. I just hate Falcos though so idk really. Basically though, it's nothing you wouldn't expect if you've seen m2k play. I was close to beating it a few times. I swear I could have at least won ONE MATCH if ROB's Bair that works on every other **** approach and recovery would have beaten his side B, I could have had a win! -_-

I wish I could help with this matchup

But NC is relatively MK free

i havent played his MK yet, but against others, i seem to do well on lylat cruise, theres enough room for me to gyro and laser, while hide from his attacks.

and i agree dtilt works wonders.

something basic, laser at the beginning of the game, almost everybody shields, throw out your gyro, for some reason, they get in the air, aim your laser upwards. free 5%.

idk how to repeat this but:
i was randomly hiting left and right on control, and c-stick, when caught in the tornado, when it nearly ended i broke out, and baired him in the face

ipitydatfu said:

i havent played his MK yet, but against others, i seem to do well on lylat cruise, theres enough room for me to gyro and laser, while hide from his attacks.

and i agree dtilt works wonders.

something basic, laser at the beginning of the game, almost everybody shields, throw out your gyro, for some reason, they get in the air, aim your laser upwards. free 5%.

idk how to repeat this but:
i was randomly hiting left and right on control, and c-stick, when caught in the tornado, when it nearly ended i broke out, and baired him in the face

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Yeah, that's just DIing out of the nado, which is totally possible and totally easily learnable.

ahh. i just caught by surprise, usually i just pop up and out of it.

stingers135 said:

I wish I could help with this matchup

But NC is relatively MK free

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You lucky *******, I hate you

That's my issue here, all my MK stuff is theory craft because Louisiana's last MK quit MK two months ago under the notion of "he's too cheap". Guy's still getting first at every tourney, but with Lucario instead. lol

I'm working on typing up my theory craft right now (in engineering though) so I'll have it posted some time tonight.

Well, with ROB's reach you can almost always punish a failed Tornado with a Smash, FTilt, or projectile depending on their distance.

It's hard to say more than just "tips," since MK has a sizable advantage and really dictates the pace of the match more than ROB can. I think you can go low on recovery and have a good chance of making it, it takes rather impeccable spacing and precise timing of ledge invincibility for him to beat ROB's UAir. (Alternatively, on most stages you can just go under them to the opposite ledge.) Going high is more guaranteed to put you back on the stage but it gives him a better opportunity to rack up more damage and uses up more fuel. The only real certainty in recovery is that you shouldn't try to challenge him head-on.

An option I haven't had a chance to explore yet, since I don't have a regular Smash community in my area, is CPing stages ROB can't be gimped on. Norfair is especially interesting to me since the hazards hurt him relatively more than ROB and the ceiling is low for NAir kills if you can catch him near the upper platforms. (Japes probably has the best "guaranteed" recovery but also has a high ceiling. GHZ is rarely allowed) It doesn't really "solve" the matchup problem, since it doesn't address what ROB can do to "beat" MK and you can't win a set off CPs alone, but it's still a good idea to discuss the best stages to fight him on:

Japes virtually guarantees your recovery. You can simply drop into the water on the right side. If you're on the left side, you can simply go high and beat him to the other side of the stage since the broken platforms prevent him from dashing. You can **** around under the platforms and use the water to prevent him from ever really getting under you. The only problem is the ceiling is high so you're liable to kill later than normal.

... I have to go now, I'll edit my thought on some other stages in shortly, later tonight at the latest. (To remind myself: GHZ, Pirate Ship, YI Melee, Distant Planet, Halberd/Delfino, and discuss first-match neutral stage striking.)

EL EDIT-O: Umm, Database Error'd so I'll try to re-summarize... -_-

GHZ is usually banned so I'll keep it brief: You can camp the **** out of the checkpoint and it's a walk-off on both ends. 'Nuff said.

Pirate Ship's high platform right in the middle of the ship is advantageous to ROB, as MK can't cover it and ground level at the same time. The platform gives ROB time to recover fuel and an easier path to ground level than dropping straight down from the air would. But the water... eh.

YI Melee is just a ridiculously small stage (early kills!), with one walk-off and one side so short you'll die before ever getting gimped off it. It's hard to get "in" if MK controls the bowl, though.

Distant Planet is a walk-off on the left end and MK can't guard both the right ledge and the one at the bottom of the slope.

Halberd and Delfino share the same defining trait -- fly-through floors. Brinstar should be mentioned here as well, since it's not even a moving stage with the same property. MK can abuse that fact for damage purposes better than ROB can but that's not the point. Since ROB isn't forced to a ledge to recover, he can fly up through any part of the stage, force MK out of the way with NAir or UAir, and gets back to solid ground for free. Halberd in particular might be the single best stage to take him to since the fight flips back and forth between awesome fly-through platform and FD-sized deck battle, both great setups for ROB.

I'll cover stage-striking in a new post, though, since this edit made it kinda long.

Nintendevil said:

6. If they start their jab...combo ... thing (not ftilt combo), it will be followed up with something (usually Dsmash.) SDI and do your thing, and you should be able to counter with a fair or ftilt. laser if you're feeling lucky.

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If you mean his neutral A "sword flurry" then you're best off just standing in there and popping him with a DSmash or FSmash after the first couple hits. It's not a constant hitbox, it lags after every few hits and you can punish him during that time before he can even stop doing the attack. But his neutral A is kind of a joke anyway, nobody uses that move on purpose except to jab lock against a wall.

Nintendevil said:

It's a tiny bit better than his Falco. I just hate Falcos though so idk really. Basically though, it's nothing you wouldn't expect if you've seen m2k play. I was close to beating it a few times. I swear I could have at least won ONE MATCH if ROB's Bair that works on every other **** approach and recovery would have beaten his side B, I could have had a win! -_-

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The funny thing is, ROB is the character my hardest matchup since Metaknight and Falco(my mains) don't do as well against him compared to most characters I face.

We had some fun games, I liked the way you improved as we played.

But the reality is, ROB has no chance against Metaknight. If I had wanted to, I could've spammed nado the whole match, and ROB's laser and Gyro would've been too slow to do anything about it. Not that Nado can't be countered, but if everyone played as gay as possible, and played to win, Metaknight would be dominating even more tournaments. I choose not to spam, but that's the flaw in the MK vs. ROB matchup. ROB's only answer to nado is Laser, and even that is too slow. Otherwise he'd be a good MK counter, I'd say MK and ROB is about 55:45 Metas favor without nado.

edit: BTW we have a GREAT connection.

RedHalberd said:

The funny thing is, ROB is the character my hardest matchup since Metaknight and Falco(my mains) don't do as well against him compared to most characters I face.

We had some fun games, I liked the way you improved as we played.

But the reality is, ROB has no chance against Metaknight. If I had wanted to, I could've spammed nado the whole match, and ROB's laser and Gyro would've been too slow to do anything about it. Not that Nado can't be countered, but if everyone played as gay as possible, and played to win, Metaknight would be dominating even more tournaments. I choose not to spam, but that's the flaw in the MK vs. ROB matchup. ROB's only answer to nado is Laser, and even that is too slow. Otherwise he'd be a good MK counter, I'd say MK and ROB is about 55:45 Metas favor without nado.

edit: BTW we have a GREAT connection.

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so now you admit it Yeah you could have actually rh@3p3d mai @$$ if you didn't go for the dash attack/grab as nearly your only approach. Plus RARing is a lot of my game (ROBS bair makes babies 'asplode) and since even that's useless i gawt rhaep'd sadface

But the full bar on the gay-o-meter definitely goes to MK. I actually think Drill rush works better on ROB than nado because only his laser and **** it (as far as I know) and that's too slow (maybe my Gyro did it once?) inb4morebairrant. Plus everyone knows how to counter a nado now.

Things that work on EVERY OTHER character become useless, like RAR as I said before, and laser and gyro are often too slow. with every other character, I can fit an uair or something before that can hit me with another attack when gimping except for mk. Thank god we have shield grabbing, because countering with attacks is useless.

One productive thing I did find, is that when they're next to you, they like to use the Ftilt combo, but I found after the first or second attack, you can fit a jab in there to stop it, the just shield for whatever's next.

Mr.E said:

If you mean his neutral A "sword flurry" then you're best off just standing in there and popping him with a DSmash or FSmash after the first couple hits. It's not a constant hitbox, it lags after every few hits and you can punish him during that time before he can even stop doing the attack. But his neutral A is kind of a joke anyway, nobody uses that move on purpose except to jab lock against a wall.

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I'm saying if you got caught in it in the beginning,

Plus, I think the reason many don't want to follow up with an f tilt is because it's agile and can and at any time, so they hold shield just in case it comes close to hitting them. ROb has nothing good oos. Well, nothings thats really fast.


EDIT: I was just going to add this response to the above post (I forgot to add multi quote) but I can't copy past for some reason

Blagh blagh blagh see the edit on my previous post.

As far as the first fight is concerned, if you're stage striking (and not random) you want to leave open the best stages available for you to fight on. Obviously it depends on the number of "neutrals" you're striking: BF, SV, FD, YI Brawl, plus PS1 or Lylat for five-stage striking, Halberd/Delfino/Castle are often counted as "neutral" for seven-stage.

I would strike BF and YI every single time -- BF's platform setup is too advantageous to MK in this matchup while YI's platform covers the majority of the stage and you can't fly under it.

SV is probably the most common starting stage in strikeout format, as nobody is particularly disadvantaged by it (so nobody strikes it), and it might be one of the best ones to fight on. The roaming platform isn't much disturbance, in fact even helpful if it comes to your side during recovery, and it's small enough to efficiently fly under the stage.

FD is obviously the best stage if you can force the fight there. It's huge, so you have the most room to space-retreat-camp with projectiles and the best chance of staying on the stage if you recover high and get knocked the opposite direction by his edgeguarding. You can also fly under it if you must.

I would be wary of PS1 but it shouldn't have priority over striking BF or YI and if the MK can take you there, then so be it. You can't fly under the stage and the wonky ledges can sometimes waste fuel, but it is fairly large and the transformations generally help ROB more than they do MK. As far as Lylat is concerned, you can go under it easily and the platforms are small enough that MK doesn't get a gigantic advantage with them, I'd say.

If you're doing seven-stage striking, you might see any of the other three which is generally a good thing. Halberd may well be the best "neutral" to fight him on (see previous post) and one of the easiest to goad him into allowing since he may be thinking "lulz I can attack from below for ez damage and that's where ROB blindspot is." Castle Siege is ***, though, so strike it after BF and YI. The first part has dumb ledges and is ridiculously small, it's easy for him to stay below you on the second part if he controls the ground level, and you can't fly under the stage in any transition.

Summary: Strike BF and YI. If you have the last strike, send the fight to the stage remaining between SV and FD. If he has the last strike, you'll have to live with PS1 or Lylat (whichever is "neutral") if he doesn't strike YI for you. (No MK in their right mind would strike BF against ROB.) If you're striking with seven stages, strike Siege and try to force the fight to Halberd especially, else follow the same rules as five-stage strikeout.

The funny thing is, when I brawled Redhal, I seemed to do the best on BF. Maybe I we need to take a new look at that stage 0.o

I always CP MK to BF...that's common knowledge I thought.

For what purpose? BF is generally regarded as a bad stage for ROB because opponents can abuse his blind spot underneath them, which MK just so happens to do extremely well. (Also, Shuttle Loop canceling chains and other stupid garbage they like to do.) Lylat has the platforms without the disadvantage of them being too easy to hide under and PS1 has platforms with the advantage of being a much larger stage. i.e. Explain.

Also, Tornado is easy to beat if you're spamming it. Intelligent use, if not frequent, is tougher to deal with, much like any other well-spaced attack. (Tornado is worse because the hitbox is gargantuan, lengthy, and it outprioritizes a whole lot of crap but still.) Unless you're Olimar, in which case you don't actually have an attack which penetrates the Tornado and just auto-lose...

More like... Explain why I keep doing good on it.

Seriously I just started ****** on bf >_>







IM SCARED MOMMY!

To be quite honest, I can't think of any logical reasons why ROB does good on BF against MK. But...every time I've played an MK, (To be honest, there weren't very many times: that's probably key.) I've played on BF, and I've won. Every other stage I've tried (Japes, Frigate, FD) have been failures. Maybe it's because the platforms screw up their dairing? Most MKs I've played like to Dair you because the only thing that can hit him out of it is Utilt/Usmash, and they'll rarely be directly above you for that to work. Also, being able to go underneath the stage easily is huge for ROB, since his recovery is easy to gimp.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, BF is a great stage for ROB. Easy Usmashes, your Fsmash, when angled up, also kills on the platforms. Your Uair ***** here, you can Utilt chain, you can play with Fair to your hearts content...

I've always had a more aggressive ROB then most people. Battlefield is seen as a bad stage because the community at large has a much more defensive/campy playstyle then they should. ROB is great at camping, and I'm glad that people know this: it means that when you start playing aggro, they're thrown off.

Though, for this topic, ignore everything I've said. Play the most campy, defensive game ever against MK.

BF is only bad versus certain characters. I remember I used to CP BF against MK to reduce shuttle loop spam, but I much prefer Norfair now days. Sudai likes to fux with ledge invincibility. I also like port town if it's available. Lack of ledges means no invincibility abuse for MK..and he can abuse it better than us. When I go Norfai, I just hope for better stage knowledge... :/

BF isn't even that bad against Marth...I'd rather take him there then Lylat. Always ban Lylat against Marth!

I play with a lot of Marth users. NC is like...all ROBs and Marths. Fun stuff x_X;

Mr.E said:

For what purpose? BF is generally regarded as a bad stage for ROB because opponents can abuse his blind spot underneath them, which MK just so happens to do extremely well. (Also, Shuttle Loop canceling chains and other stupid garbage they like to do.) Lylat has the platforms without the disadvantage of them being too easy to hide under and PS1 has platforms with the advantage of being a much larger stage. i.e. Explain.

Also, Tornado is easy to beat if you're spamming it. Intelligent use, if not frequent, is tougher to deal with, much like any other well-spaced attack. (Tornado is worse because the hitbox is gargantuan, lengthy, and it outprioritizes a whole lot of crap but still.) Unless you're Olimar, in which case you don't actually have an attack which penetrates the Tornado and just auto-lose...

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BF isn't that bad, as long as you're good at getting down to the ground. ROB can destroy people standing on the platforms worse than most. Uair frequently shieldpokes, deals ****loads of damage, and sets itself up for another one, and platforms are the only somewhat reliable way to connect with ROB's best KO move, usmash (still very tough though).

Also, Olimar can deal with the tornado better than ROB can. His shield works better for blocking it, he can up-B through it from the ground, and he can drop a nair on it from above. The most ROB can do to an intelligently used tornado is shield and try to punish the after-lag, or hit him out with an immaculately timed fsmash.

It's tougher to get down to the ground on BF than on other stages, though. The platforms cover the entire stage, so no matter where you try to go he's protected from NAir cover-fire and can continue juggling. Conversely, he's much more adept at getting below ROB because he's well-protected dropping through platforms and his quick dash can cover ground quickly.

Olimar's ground Up-Bing the Tornado is like trying to laser MK at point-blank range, lol. ;/ His shield is "better" because he himself is a smaller target, fair enough, but that's about it. ROB isn't all that bad at dealing with the tornado, bar being too big to easily DI out of it; at least he can always punish a failed one.

What's with the boards being so funky today?

stingers135 said:

Also, being able to go underneath the stage easily is huge for ROB, since his recovery is easy to gimp.

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Perhaps the best thing about BF, much like SV or Lylat.

stingers135 said:

Most MKs I've played like to Dair you

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Why platforms suck. MK can drop-through DAir you to protect himself from below and UTilt/UAir don't have much horizontal tolerance. ROB can't do likewise, at least not as well with FAir because of its angle of attack.

It might be better than YI, whose rotating platform can often be too high to reach from ground level (USmash namely) while confering the standard disadvantages ROB experiences with platforms, but other stages have better platform placement than BF. Lylat's aren't big enough for opponents to "hide" under, Smashville's can aid your recovery, Halberd's is long enough to better avoid campers beneath... Couldn't you apply all the good things about BF to other platform-heavy stages, with fewer of the disadvantages?

Nintendevil said:

More like... Explain why I keep doing good on it.

Seriously I just started ****** on bf >_>







IM SCARED MOMMY!

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I dont like BF vs. certain chars because I like dair camping characters with more ground range. ROB can camp under platforms and shoot gyro/laser. Nado works for this but I dont use it like that lol. Once you get ROB in the air its easy, but fighting/approaching him under platforms is tough.

JCaesar007 said:

Also, Olimar can deal with the tornado better than ROB can. His shield works better for blocking it, he can up-B through it from the ground, and he can drop a nair on it from above. The most ROB can do to an intelligently used tornado is shield and try to punish the after-lag, or hit him out with an immaculately timed fsmash.

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seems like you're forgetting that rob can nair too. as well as laser

I said an intelligently used tornado. That means, one used close enough that there isn't time to laser. Yes, nair breaks it too, but it's extremely hard to time. Fsmash is the only reliable way to break a tornado and even that takes ridiculous timing.

Olimar's up-B comes out quick and has very long range. It won't work great if the tornado stays close to the ground, but it's still easier to time than any of ROB's options. Oli can also cut right through the top with his nair, not to mention he can DI out of it much easier than ROB and even whistle armor through it.

ok um... when are we exactly starting the discussion? is there a set date to end? Did you even inform the other boards?

I posted in the MK boards about this. There's no set date to end, that's why its given its own thread. I will write a synopsis when I feel that we have enough data, though.

Next thread will be started on Monday and right now it's looking to be Mark.

Please continue discussing MK in here though, post in the main thread if you wanna complain about Mark being next.

lol I think we already covered all his weaknesses XD. I want something more solid on recovering though. ie not getting gimped. His dair ***** so bad and he can fit anything else in before you can get a fair out. I think uair breaks it like glid attack, but moer importantly is his shuttle of death >_>

I dunno, I don't think MK is that bad. I've played against MKs on the AiB ladder and won. It's a hard matchup for sure, but doesn't seem unwinnable.

D-smash like...outspeeds everything MK does. D-tilt does too, and outranges his D-tilt, which is raep.

F-smash and lasers stop him from Tornadoing.

I've taken MK to RC and have done pretty well against him. I think ROB's ability to camp on that stage goes up a lot, and vs MK, who has to approach, it's very helpful.

Also, since MK is light, he dies from U-throw kills pretty easily.

Wifi = irrelevant

How does D-tilt outspeed MK? Its fast, but I don't think its that fast. You might just be starting the attack before the MK, which is very likely in a wifi match. I dont trust wifi timing.