Weekly Character Discussion: Mario

Overswarm · Nov 4, 2008

let's give the plumber some lovin'

EdreesesPieces · Nov 4, 2008

It's a meee..a'mario!

AOB · Nov 4, 2008

Mario inserts the "-a" sound between words only when there are consecutive consonant sounds, as in "It's-a me" or "Let's-a go!" Me doesn't end with a consonant sound, so there's no -a after it.

This is stereotypically true of Italian accents. Whether it is true of real Italian accents, I'm not sure.

Alright, that's my contribution to this thread.

SamuraiPanda · Nov 4, 2008

Up-tilt of the gods.

JesiahTEG · Nov 5, 2008

I don't know much about Mario, but I DO know that he dominates low tiers...Like, really really badly. Fireball spam is impossible to stop lmao

Overswarm · Nov 5, 2008

All his moves come out at about the same time... easy to run up and powershield.

Zankoku · Nov 5, 2008

His "priority" is annoying but not as much so as Luigi's.

Overswarm · Nov 5, 2008

I've found that the shield really does hurt Mario more than most characters. Mario is just floaty enough to where you can approach as he's landing while he's doing a retreating aerial... that is an issue. His projectile, while fun, isn't effective at all if the opponent can powershield it. Not only that, but Mario has little to no shield pressure at all. I've never been shielding against a Mario and then realized "oh, my shield is low and I haven't had an opportunity to attack yet".

His gimping potential is meh, considering his recovery is also meh. His cape and fludd can do well when used properly... but generally only against characters you can edgeguard without. So you can fludd Ike away so he can't up+b. Big deal, no one else has issues with him either. His fludd does give ROB problems as it totally messes with the amount of fuel he uses. His cape is still great at edgeguarding, but there aren't many good recoveries that are still capable of being caped! Snake, D3, G&W, ROB... they all do fine. MK is difficult to cape as well.

On another note, using his up+b to kill by hitting with the last hit is pretty awesome. You can get some ridiculously low % kills on PS1 with it.

Kyari · Nov 5, 2008

and per se Andy said:
Mario inserts the "-a" sound between words only when there are consecutive consonant sounds, as in "It's-a me" or "Let's-a go!" Me doesn't end with a consonant sound, so there's no -a after it.

This is stereotypically true of Italian accents. Whether it is true of real Italian accents, I'm not sure.

Alright, that's my contribution to this thread.

I was playing Mario Golf 64 the other day on the VC, and I could have sworn I heard Mario say, "Nice-a shot!" Could be wrong, but I think they also insert the "-a" sound to fill a distinct pause between words.

AOB · Nov 5, 2008

Nice ends with a consonant sound, and shot begins with one.

Cyphus · Nov 5, 2008

at first people were like, Mario's D.air sucks now!...then people were like..it has uses!...but really it still sucks
I play mario on occasion just for the nostalgia of my good ol' times with doc, but its obviously not the same.

Mario's best move is fireball, period.You can often approach with it/fall and D.smash right after. His uptilt is good on big targets, outside that, not great. F.tilt has poor reach, F.smash is still good at mindgaming because he leans back so much, and UpB out of shield is amazing substitute when u can't shieldgrab.
Jab, Grab, d.throw, walk forward (wait for airdodge) regrab, d.throw, upair- (wait for airdodge) charge f.smash-POP! is my favorite mindgame combo.

Kyari · Nov 6, 2008

Also.. something I just figured out a few days ago, if you use a reverse f-smash, you move forward. so you can turn backward and use fsmash in the direction that you were originally facing, which moves you forward in that direction as you do the smash, adding range to it.

SamuraiPanda · Nov 7, 2008

Kyari said:
Also.. something I just figured out a few days ago, if you use a reverse f-smash, you move forward. so you can turn backward and use fsmash in the direction that you were originally facing, which moves you forward in that direction as you do the smash, adding range to it.

That is called stutter stepping, and was discovered near the beginning of the game. Very important for some characters, and can really add alot to the metagame once more people realize they can change their spacing with that pretty easily. Marth + Stutter stepping = tippered Fsmashes all day.

Overswarm said:
I've found that the shield really does hurt Mario more than most characters. Mario is just floaty enough to where you can approach as he's landing while he's doing a retreating aerial... that is an issue. His projectile, while fun, isn't effective at all if the opponent can powershield it. Not only that, but Mario has little to no shield pressure at all. I've never been shielding against a Mario and then realized "oh, my shield is low and I haven't had an opportunity to attack yet".

You never shoot one fireball, you always have two out. The fireball is easily one of his best moves, and without it Mario would be absolutely nothing.

His gimping potential is meh, considering his recovery is also meh. His cape and fludd can do well when used properly... but generally only against characters you can edgeguard without. So you can fludd Ike away so he can't up+b. Big deal, no one else has issues with him either. His fludd does give ROB problems as it totally messes with the amount of fuel he uses. His cape is still great at edgeguarding, but there aren't many good recoveries that are still capable of being caped! Snake, D3, G&W, ROB... they all do fine. MK is difficult to cape as well.

As far as I know, using the FLUDD and the cape in conjunction can lead to some fairly good gimps. Mario NEEDS to gimp, because landing one of his KO moves can be extremely difficult against good opponents. That, IMO, is whats holding him back. I feel like he's a great character and could easily rise from low tier in time, but he is simply bad at KOs. Also, his recovery is definitely helped by the cape, because you can stall to avoid getting edgeguarded.

Also, Mario's ledgecamping game is incredible. 1der (a great Mario player in the midwest) is ridiculously good in teams when it goes down to 2v1 on him. He ledgecamps with fireballs in a really unique way that makes it tough as hell to get him off, and I've seen him make quite a few comebacks because he racks up damage on the opponents with the fireballs and then just taps them for a KO.

Overswarm · Nov 7, 2008

1der is the mario player that switched to MK against me because he said he had to.

You never shoot one fireball, you always have two out. The fireball is easily one of his best moves, and without it Mario would be absolutely nothing.

I guess it must just be me, but I've found his fireballs really easy to powershield. My common approach during Kel's experimenting with Mario was to simply dash, powershield, dash, powershield, dash, and then powershield his aeriral or simply shield to grab (since Mario often had difficulty doing anything to get away once you shield underneath him).

I think Mario can really benefit from a few "heroes" maining him and increasing his metagame. If Mario could get some good matches against the top tier characters he'd be a unique (and FUN) character to have.... but no one has popularized him nor made his gimp game noticable.

One problem I have seen with Mario is that trading hits with Mario = Mario loses. Every time. Mario's approach, while good with the fireballs compared to other characters, is still very transparent. His combo game is also lacking at medium % due to Brawl's low hitstun. His edgeguarding game, while good, changes drastically from player to player. Mario is a very hard character to pick up and play effectively, and his matchups don't seem to be too far in his favor. If Mario had a stronger smash attack that he could get out easier he'd definitely be a force to reckon with, but currently he is sub-par.

Although, spiking with his fair is still sexy. INTERCEPT.

LeeHarris · Nov 7, 2008

Mario's up B is amazing now. The last hit pops them up pretty high regardless of % and it allows you to safely fall back down. I use it all the time. In hacked Brawl with hit stun, his up B is amazing for finishing combos when you don't have another jump or you're too low to hit them.

Kyari · Nov 7, 2008

SamuraiPanda said:
That is called stutter stepping, and was discovered near the beginning of the game. Very important for some characters, and can really add alot to the metagame once more people realize they can change their spacing with that pretty easily. Marth + Stutter stepping = tippered Fsmashes all day.

Uh... no. Marth can't simply be facing left, tap Cright, and move forward with an Fsmash. Just try this with Mario.

Overswarm · Nov 7, 2008

Kyari said:
Uh... no. Marth can't simply be facing left, tap Cright, and move forward with an Fsmash. Just try this with Mario.

That's not how you stutter step. You tap a direction as if you are going to dash and then quickly do a f-smash. Your character moves slightly one direction or another; this gives good spacing options to many characters and increases the range of the f-smash for characters lke sonic and mario by a decent degree.

Zankoku · Nov 7, 2008

Wow, people are confusing terms a lot. SP, Stutter Stepping is an artifact of the game's threshold for registering an fsmash. You can smash the control stick left or right and then press A a little later, even though initial dash frames have already visibly happened.

What Kyari is describing is instead a unique behavior where Mario will slide in the direction of his smash slightly if he did a turnaround fsmash.

SamuraiPanda · Nov 7, 2008

Yeah, but I guess I was moreso referring to how he said you can turn around then fsmash in the opposite direction to increase the range, which is effectively just stutter stepping the fsmash.

Zankoku · Nov 7, 2008

Well, no. It's not that either, since there's no additional delay in using the fsmash like there would be in a stutter step. So it's better in terms of speed compared to if Mario stutter stepped an fsmash.

Gimpyfish62 · Nov 7, 2008

jab grab dthrow sh up air x2 jab grab is nice when they don't double jump airdodge. if you airdodge immediately you still get hit by the 2nd up air - if you wait and airdodge you still get hit by jab grab - if you don't airdodge you get hit by 2 up airs (depending on percent)

but if they jump and airdodge mario just frowns =(

Mario is pretty cool - fireballs are nice - cape is nice and has some of the craziest physics ever - fludd is nicer than expected but not that nice - he's fairly quick but doesn't have an incredibly amount of range...

Mario's alright.

here's a combo video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LljM5AiGRJU

Can't we just call the stutter step thing an easy pivot fsmash - i've been calling it a pivot fsmash since i found out about it lol

isn't it just dash one direction fsmash the other direction quickly or am i thinking of something else?

Kyari · Nov 7, 2008

Overswarm said:
That's not how you stutter step. You tap a direction as if you are going to dash and then quickly do a f-smash. Your character moves slightly one direction or another; this gives good spacing options to many characters and increases the range of the f-smash for characters lke sonic and mario by a decent degree.

And adding on to what Ankoku said, I never said this was a stutter step. I use stutter stepping with G&W's fsmash, and Pikachu's sometimes. But not Marth's, if I don't have time to walk backwards for spacing then I shouldn't be committing to his fsmash at all. Either way Mario has this unique property about using a reverse fsmash.

EDIT: Gimpyfish I want you to try something the next time you get your hands on SSBB. Pick Marth. Face the left. Cstick right. Pick Luigi. Face the left. Cstick right. Pick MK. Face the left. Cstick right.

Then pick Mario. Face the left. Cstick right. Tell me what the difference is.

EdreesesPieces · Nov 7, 2008

Mario is a pretty under rated character who can combo really well against many many characters. His waterpack is pretty decent at gimping certain characters' recoveries as well. I find him to be an overall mediocore character, but with a bit of bad recovery, putting him near the bottom of mid tier, but not bad enough to be low tier.

I wonder if anyone's ever tried his up b wall jump to see if that still works.

Drab Emordnilap · Nov 8, 2008

I haven't been able to get it to.

Dastrn · Nov 8, 2008

Gimpyfish62 said:
here's a combo video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LljM5AiGRJU

good video, but a little repetitive with the jab grab dthrow upair combos. It's clear that this guy is good, but he's playing a lot of people who he's just outclassing.

Overswarm · Nov 10, 2008

Synopsis:

Mario is a character with a ton of potential. Where this potential will lead, no one is quite sure; what is for certain is that he has a unique gimping game when you combine his bair, fair, cape, and FLUDD. Mario definitely has a good matchup against several of the characters in the cast, but unfortunately most of his strengths are outshined by other characters. Mario is a character that will more than likely be obscure in the smash tournament scene for quite some time because whenever anyone has a problem, Mario will be a second best solution. Despite this, Mario's rarity will allow those who have fallen in love with the portly plumber to do better in tournament simply due to the matchup inexperience their opponents have.

Past his gimping game, Mario doesn't have much save for a few combos out of throws (good!) that can be easily DI'ed out of if the player uses his jumps and air dodge correctly (bad!). Mario will more than likely stay middle tier at highest, but if a few Mario mains out there can show that he will do amazing against certain top tiers via his edgeguarding game it is almost certain that Mario numbers will increase.

SamuraiPanda · Nov 10, 2008

Everything after this post is general discussion.

Blackbelt · Nov 10, 2008

I like Oversawrm's overview.

Stealth Raptor · Nov 10, 2008

mindgames with the hint lol.

Sir Bedevere · Nov 10, 2008

I realize how bad combo videos are of displaying character skill, considering the majority of the opponents are less than steallar, but my God, that had to be one of the best combo videos I've ever seen.

It almost wants me to pick up Mario, despite how much I hate him/suck with him.

Mario for mid tier.

Blackbelt · Nov 10, 2008

Sir Bedevere said:
I realize how bad combo videos are of displaying character skill, considering the majority of the opponents are less than steallar, but my God, that had to be one of the best combo videos I've ever seen.

It almost wants me to pick up Mario, despite how much I hate him/suck with him.

Mario for mid tier.

hey, if you decide to pick up Mario, remember that there are nice people on the Mario boards, always willing to help fellow plumbers.

Mario_ 101 · Nov 10, 2008

Even though i main mario it just amazes me of the seemingly endless edgeguard ideas. its just incredible. and yes we r friendly ppl here.

SkylerOcon · Nov 10, 2008

Stop lying to him. We're all cold, evil *******s and hate everybody else in the world. GTFO the Mario boards, Wolf n00b.

A2ZOMG · Nov 11, 2008

You guys didn't mention that Mario's Up-B is really good out of shield. I guess LeeHarris said it was good though.

But seriously yes, Mario's Up-B is a very good attack in Brawl. Comes out fast, according to teh_spammerer he said it has invul frames on startup (he tested it against Bowser's Firebreath). Several of Mario's attacks actually COMBO into it. It has rediculous priority too.

cj.Shark · Nov 11, 2008

great combo video. i saw it because the blue pit in it is sagemoon which you can see more of fears mario by watching sagemoons combo video. they are both stellar players with great combo videos

Judge Judy · Nov 11, 2008

Also, Mario ridiculous edge game should be noted, Monk really figured out an incredible way to play the edge with Mario. Mario's flawless ledge control/camping can make him untouchable. Additionally, FIHL gives Mario a very good counter against high-priority and disjointed moves. Other than that, most of the strengths and weaknesses of Mario have already been covered.

SamuraiPanda · Nov 11, 2008

Yeah, Mario's up-B off the ground has invincibility frames on startup. But I'm not sure about in the air.

Genos · Nov 11, 2008

Yay it's Mario!

Wow, you guys hit the nail on the head with this one. You got all of his strengths and weaknesses and even stated that the highest we will go in the tier list is midtier, which is a fact we have had a to accept for awhile now.

I must say, I was surprised at the seeming optimism Overswarm had for the future of Mario's metagame. I don't know if he'll ever be able to reliably gimp any top tiers other than Dedede, but that would certainly boost his metagame. What Mario really needs is someone to analyze Mario's gimp game and find the best ways to gimp various cast members, then prove it via tourney. I think that's the only way anyone will be able to advance past Boss's Mario. So yes, Mario needs a few heroes. If there were surefire ways to gimp a majority of the cast then Mario would place much better in tournaments. Range and KOing are his biggest problems, but with reliable gimps his bad KO potential wouldn't hinder him so much.

Judge Judy · Nov 11, 2008

SamuraiPanda said:
Yeah, Mario's up-B off the ground has invincibility frames on startup. But I'm not sure about in the air.

It does in the air too, right when the spark appears in the animation sequence of the atk Mario has about 3-5 frames of invincibility.

HeroMystic · Nov 11, 2008

lol @ people saying fireball is Mario's best move.

Fireballs has great use, but it's no where near the best move. Overswarm is correct. Fireballs can easily be powershield (even if two are out) and makes approaching not guaranteed.

Mario has no "shine" in any particular move. However all his moves together is what makes Mario, as a whole, a good character.

There is no exploits Mario can use. He has to use all his abilities if he wants to win a match. And that makes Mario an unpredictable character due to the countless amounts of playstyles people can bring.

I'm not surprised that no one talked about using FLUDD and Cape onstage. FLUDD is a good defensive/campy tool due to FIHL (look it up if you don't know it), and it also kills approaches and allows Mario to counterattack, usually with a D-Smash or F-smash. Cape can be used on stage to reverse laggy attacks. He can also use cape jump to kill counter-attacking.

I can't believe it's been said that his "gimping potential is meh". That's practically the highlight of Mario's metagame thus far. He has more than just Cape and FLUDD, he also has his aerials, fireballs, and a spike. The only thing that stops Mario from outright destroying every single character's recovery is the fact that he cannot stay off-stage for long.

That's all I got so far. Gotta say, I expected worse from this, but you guys proved you know some stuff about Mario.

And thank God you guys believe he should be mid tier.

Weekly Character Discussion: Mario

is laughing at you

Smash Bros Before Hos

Bad command or file name

Smash Hero

Smash Master

is laughing at you

Never Knows Best

is laughing at you

Smash Lord

Bad command or file name

BRoomer

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

is laughing at you

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

is laughing at you

Never Knows Best

Smash Hero

Never Knows Best

Banned (62 points)

Smash Lord

Smash Bros Before Hos

Palindrome Bard

BRoomer

is laughing at you

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Tiny Dancer

Smash Legend

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Legacy of the Mario

Information

Network