Blad01
Smash Lord
Week #15 :Wario
The most aerial mobile character in the game, a Super Armor on his F-Smash, a Fart (lol), a Bike... One of the biggest surprises of the roster, Wario is great ! How should we fight against him ?
Discuss !
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Match-Up Week #15 : Wario
- Thread starter Blad01
- Start date
The most aerial mobile character in the game, a Super Armor on his F-Smash, a Fart (lol), a Bike... One of the biggest surprises of the roster, Wario is great ! How should we fight against him ?
Discuss !
MyNameIsRyan
Smash Journeyman
Mith_
Smash Champion
Wario pretty much owns the air. So Falco is at a disadvantage there.
Wario's recovery and off stage fighting is better than Falco's too.
Wario doesn't have a spike, so that's good. He doesn't have a projectile, but he does have a bike.
Falco can CG Wario to pretty high percentages due to his ******** grab animations.
I agree with Ace55. 60-40 Falco. This matchup is a pretty fun one to fight.
Wario's recovery and off stage fighting is better than Falco's too.
Wario doesn't have a spike, so that's good. He doesn't have a projectile, but he does have a bike.
Falco can CG Wario to pretty high percentages due to his ******** grab animations.
I agree with Ace55. 60-40 Falco. This matchup is a pretty fun one to fight.
Carbonated
Smash Cadet
Haven't faced a wario other than the CPU so... =\ Btw you might want to fix the link from the stickied topic. Just leads you to the Diddy topic.
Mikey7
Smash Lord
Definately in Wario's favor, I don't know by how much. I play Warios regularly and there is no standard attack pattern, every time he comes at you, you just don't know what to expect...camping Wario is not the way to go. CG only works til 20% plus a spike so thats not very favorable. He's got 2 kill moves the 1 minute fart and f smash, both of which kill at 100% (I've survived a 100% fart but it was really good DI).
So generally his approaches are mostly safe especially dair because of his aerial movement, but alot of the time he can mix up with alot of things. So generally, the best thing to do is try to take away his offensive options (this is why characters like Dedede and Marth have advantages because they shut down his aerial game). But Falco is not so good at shutting them down, so alot of the time the best option is to attack out of shield, but against a good Wario thats not even gonna matter because alot of their attacks are safe.
Double jump back airs work pretty good, Wario tends to double jump alot.
There is no general way to fight Warios because every Wario has a different style, just find out how to exploit the way the one you are playing against and watch out for fsmash/fart.
Try putting pressure on the second Wario lands, so for example block down air, then try to punish with ftilt, dair takes too long unless you autocancel it which = shield grabbed.
Bite is annoying, you cant really spotdodge it, and theres an infinite amount of annoying ways to use it, best thing to do is if you see the bite coming is just roll or run away and laser.
The only real place i see a distinct advantage for Falco is when Wario is off the ledge. His recovery is very predictable, you can get spikes off the second wario jumps off his bike or predict airdodge then punish.
So Warios got the advantage, number value I say maybe 60 40 or 65 35
So generally his approaches are mostly safe especially dair because of his aerial movement, but alot of the time he can mix up with alot of things. So generally, the best thing to do is try to take away his offensive options (this is why characters like Dedede and Marth have advantages because they shut down his aerial game). But Falco is not so good at shutting them down, so alot of the time the best option is to attack out of shield, but against a good Wario thats not even gonna matter because alot of their attacks are safe.
Double jump back airs work pretty good, Wario tends to double jump alot.
There is no general way to fight Warios because every Wario has a different style, just find out how to exploit the way the one you are playing against and watch out for fsmash/fart.
Try putting pressure on the second Wario lands, so for example block down air, then try to punish with ftilt, dair takes too long unless you autocancel it which = shield grabbed.
Bite is annoying, you cant really spotdodge it, and theres an infinite amount of annoying ways to use it, best thing to do is if you see the bite coming is just roll or run away and laser.
The only real place i see a distinct advantage for Falco is when Wario is off the ledge. His recovery is very predictable, you can get spikes off the second wario jumps off his bike or predict airdodge then punish.
So Warios got the advantage, number value I say maybe 60 40 or 65 35
8AngeL8
Smash Lord
Falco's favor, 60/40. Falco totally wins the camp game, obviously. He can build damage with impunity until Wario manages to pin him down. The Bike doesn't work as an approach either, as the reflector knocks him out of it.
Wario doesn't win the air battle as handily as some have said. Bair in particular has a big enough hitbox to get the job done. Nair will work too. Just don't rely on Dair, since Wario's Uair will wreck you.
Falco wins out on the ground, with Ftilt and SHbair overpowering Wario's approaches. Spacing with Jab combo and a surprise reflector works wonders, as well. Anything to keep him from getting too close.
The biggest downside against him is it's essentially impossible to shield grab a good Wario since he has so much aerial mobility. Still, Falco doesn't even need the chaingrab here, he beats out Wario enough elsewhere.
Wario doesn't win the air battle as handily as some have said. Bair in particular has a big enough hitbox to get the job done. Nair will work too. Just don't rely on Dair, since Wario's Uair will wreck you.
Falco wins out on the ground, with Ftilt and SHbair overpowering Wario's approaches. Spacing with Jab combo and a surprise reflector works wonders, as well. Anything to keep him from getting too close.
The biggest downside against him is it's essentially impossible to shield grab a good Wario since he has so much aerial mobility. Still, Falco doesn't even need the chaingrab here, he beats out Wario enough elsewhere.
Wario wins for the most part in the air, not going head to head but in speed, kill power, and damage done. On the ground, Wario does fine, he's not gonna try to compete with Falco's range and just work on out speeding him up close and pressuring him into something.
The CG is easy to avoid mostly, it would be the only thing that would swing the matchup in Falco's favor since it is a free 40% or so, but Wario can just take that damage from lasers on his free will while poking at you and chipping away at your damage.
Falco has a REALLY hard time killing Wario, he doesn't die from CG to spike, he is really heavy and has a good recovery, and Wario is a hard to hit character overall. I've lived past 210% quite a few times just because Falco could not land something to kill. They usually eventually get me with a bair.
It's really even, slightly in Wario's favor if he realizes that for the first 30% or so all he has to do is poke at you with safe moves until they hit and then after he takes 30% from lasers he can play quite a bit more aggressively up close. If you don't use lasers in the beginning of his stocks and u just focus on the CG, he can still do the pokes and not take anything from lasers.
Short version: If you focus on the CG in the beginning, he doesn't have to worry about lasers and can just poke easily at you all day. If you do use lasers, then you lose the CG and he still hits you with pokes while he gets hit by lasers.
I would say 55 : 45 for Wario or 60 : 40 once he realizes this.
8AngeL8
Smash Lord
A good Falco should never be going into a match with the intention of getting the CG, anyway. Take it if you can, but don't force it.
I'll agree with you on the hard to kill part, but if Falco camps like a total ***** until Wario makes a mistake or a laser opens up an opportunity, it's doable.
I guess the match is highly dependent on the spacing. If Falco can keep him at arms length and keep his aerials away with Bair and Ftilt, he'll be winning, and Wario will be winning if he can screw that up.
I'll agree with you on the hard to kill part, but if Falco camps like a total ***** until Wario makes a mistake or a laser opens up an opportunity, it's doable.
I guess the match is highly dependent on the spacing. If Falco can keep him at arms length and keep his aerials away with Bair and Ftilt, he'll be winning, and Wario will be winning if he can screw that up.
Don't forget stages, RC will f*** Falco up lol. Ban that against Wario if you can, he will probably ban Japes, and then IDK best bet I guess would be to take him to FD or BF, whichever one you work better with.
8AngeL8
Smash Lord
For sure. I'm not so sure about Smashville either. It's pretty small, so it'll be harder for Falco to keep him away.
What are your thoughts on Yoshi's Island? I haven't played enough good Wario's there to get a good feel for it. It seems like it shouldn't favor either one too much, but maybe there's something I'm thinking of...
What are your thoughts on Yoshi's Island? I haven't played enough good Wario's there to get a good feel for it. It seems like it shouldn't favor either one too much, but maybe there's something I'm thinking of...
XxBlackxX
Smash Ace
eh...i think FD>>>>>>>>>>BF for wario.
it is a lot shorter and if you get on the platforms wario can destory you with his air game. SV is ok but not great. as for yoshi's island, i haven't really played wario on that stage either.
it is a lot shorter and if you get on the platforms wario can destory you with his air game. SV is ok but not great. as for yoshi's island, i haven't really played wario on that stage either.
Mikey7
Smash Lord
DMG, Wario can DI backwards and jump out at 20% if Falco goes for another CG, otherwise its just 20% plus a spike so its not even 40%.
Oh and 8angel8 what type of camping are you talking about? If you're referring to laser camping that doesn't work on good players and if you are referring to just attacking after Wario attacks, it is tough in this matchup because Wario has alot of options.
Oh and 8angel8 what type of camping are you talking about? If you're referring to laser camping that doesn't work on good players and if you are referring to just attacking after Wario attacks, it is tough in this matchup because Wario has alot of options.
8AngeL8
Smash Lord
It's not strict laser camping, it's intelligent laser camping. SHDL while you can, space with tilts and play keep away. Even against good players, it will build some damage. Even if it doesn't, it will force them to approach how you want them to, where you can space properly and punish Wario.
Blad01
Smash Lord
I think this is 60:40 for Falco.
Basically, Falco forces Wario to approach, and his approaches are punishable :
- Bike : Shine / SH Dair
- Full Hop or Double Jump : Bair, Fair
- SH Dair into FSmash : You must dodge the FSmash, or perfect shield hit, in order to punish it effectively.
Falco has a better ground game, can compete in the airs (lasers, Bair, Dair), can gimp Wario (not easily but still, can rack up damages off-stage easily).
So :
- Who has to approach ? Wario
- Can he approach safely ? Not really
- Who wins on the ground ? Falco
- Who wins in the airs ? Even
- Can Wario gimp Falco ? Yes (Of course lol
)
- Can Falco gimp Wario ? Yes, but hardly.
- Who can rack up damages the most easily ? Falco
- Who can kill the other one sooner ? Wario can kill Falco at lower percents and gimp him more easily (Side B is still not that esay to gimp), but since Falco racks up damage easier (grabs, lasers, phantasm), Falco.
60:40 in Falco's Advantage in my opinion
Basically, Falco forces Wario to approach, and his approaches are punishable :
- Bike : Shine / SH Dair
- Full Hop or Double Jump : Bair, Fair
- SH Dair into FSmash : You must dodge the FSmash, or perfect shield hit, in order to punish it effectively.
Falco has a better ground game, can compete in the airs (lasers, Bair, Dair), can gimp Wario (not easily but still, can rack up damages off-stage easily).
So :
- Who has to approach ? Wario
- Can he approach safely ? Not really
- Who wins on the ground ? Falco
- Who wins in the airs ? Even
- Can Wario gimp Falco ? Yes (Of course lol
)- Can Falco gimp Wario ? Yes, but hardly.
- Who can rack up damages the most easily ? Falco
- Who can kill the other one sooner ? Wario can kill Falco at lower percents and gimp him more easily (Side B is still not that esay to gimp), but since Falco racks up damage easier (grabs, lasers, phantasm), Falco.
60:40 in Falco's Advantage in my opinion
Mikey7
Smash Lord
Wario approaches in every matchup he has, that is not a disadvantage, thats just the way Wario is played...and trust me I play 3 Warios regularly and they all approach safely
Vlade
Social Outcast
Difficulty: 55:45 (Slightly in Falco's Favour
What to expect:
The Strategy:
Falco owns wario in range, and that includes lasers. Camping with lasers at the start will force wario to approach. I'll still need to test whether or not bite out-prioritises phantasm. But anyway smart warios will probably approach with a fair and DI backwards to avoid your shieldgrab (depending on the wario, since wario is so versatile I can't come up with strategies for everything). I've seen numerous warios full hop dair behind the opponent as well. Only a dumb wario would approach with the bike, since we can just knock him off with the reflector. Your best bet on grabbing wario is to jab then grab, one of my favourite mindgames is to short hop autocancel nair, jab then grab. Wario survives from a chaingrab to spike because of his very decent recovery. If I do manage to pull this off then I just run to the other side to camp with more lasers. Wario has extremely limited range, I dont think many, or if any of his moves can outrange Falco's ftilt. Ftilt is a valuable tool in this match-up indeed.
If you get grabbed in the middle of the stage, he'll either use uthrow or dthrow. If he uthrows get ready for a rising dair to uair combo which does considerable damage, you can get out of the initial dair with DI and airdodge. Just beware of the uair that wario may use after your airdodge if you get too predictable with your defense. If he dthrows then DI away, otherwise you'll be hit with fsmash. If you space well, you shouldn't get grabbed since wario has little range. If you're careless with your spacing, prepare to be sent to hell.
While you're recovering, it is normal for the falco player to be under pressure, especially against wario's offstage ability. As I said in the list above, nair, fair and fart will either kill or send you back out. Also watch out for the bike, I've seen some dumb falcos get spiked by the bike when wario jumps off. For onstage edgeguarding he will keep a bite out. Our best edgeguarding tool is the dair if wario jumps on his bike.
Getting the kill. Crap. Wario has fsmash uair and fart, which are quite easiy to land (well maybe not the fart as much, although you are least expecting it at 55 secs since wario isn't glowing. This is the point where wario's fart has the most knockback). Falco has fsmash, bair, usmash (at higher %) and dair. Even with lasers falco has trouble landing these. Dsmash isn't a bad option out of shield, although it doesnt kill until about 130% or so. Wario can live forever with his DI and recovery.
STAGES
Counterpicks:
What to expect:
- Aerial Combat. Just don't even try fighting wario in the air, he'll simply **** you with his insane DI. Depending on the wario, they'll either save their uair for the kill or use it to deal 17% damage, which is quite a lot.
- Recovery. If wario edgeguards very aggresively, you're gonna have a hard time getting back. His nair will pop you back out, whilst his fart will just KO you, allowing everyone in the room at that moment in time to lol at your face. Seriously if you get fart gimped, you will be demoralised severely coz it's such a hilarious move (trust me, I've experienced it). Wario's fair can also kind of be a wall of pain, although most warios will use nair just to send you back out, potentially killing you.
- Wario is tough to kill, and he doesn't find falco so tough to kill. Super armour on wario's fsmash will probably catch you off-guard at some point. Uair also kills very easily off the top if you're in the air at around 90%. Of course, the fart is incredibly powerful, and is used when you least expect it, especially after 55 seconds.
- Unpredictability. Wario is just so random and so versatile, especially with DI.
- Bite. Always remember that you can be grabbed in the air, and watch out for it when you are recovering if he is on stage. I've seen people in vids when they're on the edge and they use get-up attack just go straight into Wario's mouth. I'm not sure but I think our phantasm may get eaten up as well, I'll test this when I have time.
The Strategy:
Falco owns wario in range, and that includes lasers. Camping with lasers at the start will force wario to approach. I'll still need to test whether or not bite out-prioritises phantasm. But anyway smart warios will probably approach with a fair and DI backwards to avoid your shieldgrab (depending on the wario, since wario is so versatile I can't come up with strategies for everything). I've seen numerous warios full hop dair behind the opponent as well. Only a dumb wario would approach with the bike, since we can just knock him off with the reflector. Your best bet on grabbing wario is to jab then grab, one of my favourite mindgames is to short hop autocancel nair, jab then grab. Wario survives from a chaingrab to spike because of his very decent recovery. If I do manage to pull this off then I just run to the other side to camp with more lasers. Wario has extremely limited range, I dont think many, or if any of his moves can outrange Falco's ftilt. Ftilt is a valuable tool in this match-up indeed.
If you get grabbed in the middle of the stage, he'll either use uthrow or dthrow. If he uthrows get ready for a rising dair to uair combo which does considerable damage, you can get out of the initial dair with DI and airdodge. Just beware of the uair that wario may use after your airdodge if you get too predictable with your defense. If he dthrows then DI away, otherwise you'll be hit with fsmash. If you space well, you shouldn't get grabbed since wario has little range. If you're careless with your spacing, prepare to be sent to hell.
While you're recovering, it is normal for the falco player to be under pressure, especially against wario's offstage ability. As I said in the list above, nair, fair and fart will either kill or send you back out. Also watch out for the bike, I've seen some dumb falcos get spiked by the bike when wario jumps off. For onstage edgeguarding he will keep a bite out. Our best edgeguarding tool is the dair if wario jumps on his bike.
Getting the kill. Crap. Wario has fsmash uair and fart, which are quite easiy to land (well maybe not the fart as much, although you are least expecting it at 55 secs since wario isn't glowing. This is the point where wario's fart has the most knockback). Falco has fsmash, bair, usmash (at higher %) and dair. Even with lasers falco has trouble landing these. Dsmash isn't a bad option out of shield, although it doesnt kill until about 130% or so. Wario can live forever with his DI and recovery.
STAGES
Counterpicks:
- Jungle Japes - Now wario has a harder time surviving from the spike.
- Final Destination - Long and flat for a good keep-away spacing camping game. Just make sure wario doesn't get too close to you.
Ban These Stages!
- Rainbow Cruise - fighting in the air isn't the best thing to do against wario, and he'll have an even easier time landing uair for the kill.
- Delfino - There are quite a few other stages like this (halberd, etc.) which are catered to those with good recoveries. Be careful of recovering back onto the main platform, because you may fall straight through.
8AngeL8
Smash Lord
Mikey, just because you have trouble against Wario doesn't mean it isn't in Falco's favor. Your hard matchup =/= your characters hard matchup. Something about your playstyle maybe makes it difficult for you. There are a lot of good players here giving reasons why it's in Falco's favor...
Mikey7
Smash Lord
I don't have problems I win alot vs Wario and when I don't win I always take them to last stock high percents lol. My playstyle changes from match to match. I'm just stating my opinion, I'm not trying to be offensive. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm wrong.
8AngeL8
Smash Lord
Nah, I'm not trying to attack you either. I'm just saying, a characters matchups and yours don't always match up. I have a really hard time against Diddy players with Falco, even though it's supposed to be my favor. On the other hand, I've never really had trouble against Ice Climbers with Snake, even though that's supposed to be one of my harder fights.
XxBlackxX
Smash Ace
generally, it's not too terrible, but it isnt one of his best or even good for him. but in this specific matchup, it's bad because you will most likely face wario in the air, his strongest point.
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,535
Can someone explain to me how high percentage-wise falco can cg wario and why?
XxBlackxX
Smash Ace
i think about 20 to 25%. wario can jump out after that %.
I am almost positive Wario cannot escape until around at least 30-35%, I've played plenty of Falco's and just about everyone of them can CG me that long. I will look into it further however, unless Fiction beats me to it and posts something detailed like normal.
Camping lasers and running away with Phantasm doesn't work well, Fsmash and Nair easily break through Phantasm and I know Nair is definitely fast enough to use it even if you didn't predict the Phantasm before hand. Falco only racks up more damage than Wario if he is getting pegged by lasers, Wario does a sh**load of damage on his attacks. (Dair does 16% with all hits and Uair does 17%, Fthrow does 13% and Waft can do a crazy amount too even if it's just barely charged enough.)
Also, Fthrow is more useful than Dthrow and Uthrow usually vs Falco. I use Fthrow a lot more against Falco just for the guaranteed damage that wrecks him in the long run.
I think my earlier post summed it up well: If Falco wants to get the CG off, he can't use lasers too much, meaning Wario is freer to poke and dodge up close. If Falco decides to use lasers, he risks not getting the CG off and taking damage when Wario does get close.
I honestly think if Falco could kill better, that he would have the advantage. But he really struggles there against Wario who just tanks like hell in this matchup and kills at gross %'s. That area is soooo lopsided towards Wario that it really affects the matchup quite significantly.
Camping lasers and running away with Phantasm doesn't work well, Fsmash and Nair easily break through Phantasm and I know Nair is definitely fast enough to use it even if you didn't predict the Phantasm before hand. Falco only racks up more damage than Wario if he is getting pegged by lasers, Wario does a sh**load of damage on his attacks. (Dair does 16% with all hits and Uair does 17%, Fthrow does 13% and Waft can do a crazy amount too even if it's just barely charged enough.)
Also, Fthrow is more useful than Dthrow and Uthrow usually vs Falco. I use Fthrow a lot more against Falco just for the guaranteed damage that wrecks him in the long run.
I think my earlier post summed it up well: If Falco wants to get the CG off, he can't use lasers too much, meaning Wario is freer to poke and dodge up close. If Falco decides to use lasers, he risks not getting the CG off and taking damage when Wario does get close.
I honestly think if Falco could kill better, that he would have the advantage. But he really struggles there against Wario who just tanks like hell in this matchup and kills at gross %'s. That area is soooo lopsided towards Wario that it really affects the matchup quite significantly.
GMo
Smash Apprentice
I'd say this is about 50:50 (but who cares about arbitrary numbers).
Obvious things:
Falco has lasers and will shoot them from any safe distance.
Wario has a nasty fsmash (range is kinda short) that has super armor.
Waft will kill at ~55-65%
Wario has a pretty easy time gimping Falco...At the same time, Falco will seldom gimp Wario.
Chaingrab -> Spike = ~45%
CG->Spike won't prove to be a free stock. Wario's recovery is too good. Even with nice ledgehogging it isn't even close.
Bike eats lasers. Isn't a safe approach.
Less obvious, but still known:
Wario has a great DAC.
Nair > Phantasm
Things to consider:
Under typical circumstances I'd say Wario will live to ~160% meanwhile Falco will live to about 120%.
Falco dominates at long range, Wario is good in the air, not dominant though (certainly wins here). Wario and Falco probably split close to even on the ground. I'd give the edge to Falco. Primarily due to the fact that he will most likely be able to string moves together more fluidly. The Fsmash with superarmor is painful, however.
The chaingrab works well here. A smart Wario will be pretty difficult to grab. Like it was stated before - they can poke for awhile and just eat the lasers. If done right they might be able to go close to even until around 35% - from there Wario can play aggressive.
There will be tons of mind games. A lot of it doing with the ridiculous air DI Wario has and lasers.
Wario has a tough time approaching, but doesn't have too much of a problem staying in your face. It is hard to reset the spacing with phantasm considering his Nair comes out so fast.
Falco will probably be killing with FSmash, USmash, or Bair.
Wario will probably kill with FSmash, Uair, or Waft.
With Japes now banned (?) it is probably going to be in Falco's best interest to CP Final Destination.
This seems pretty even.
Obvious things:
Falco has lasers and will shoot them from any safe distance.
Wario has a nasty fsmash (range is kinda short) that has super armor.
Waft will kill at ~55-65%
Wario has a pretty easy time gimping Falco...At the same time, Falco will seldom gimp Wario.
Chaingrab -> Spike = ~45%
CG->Spike won't prove to be a free stock. Wario's recovery is too good. Even with nice ledgehogging it isn't even close.
Bike eats lasers. Isn't a safe approach.
Less obvious, but still known:
Wario has a great DAC.
Nair > Phantasm
Things to consider:
Under typical circumstances I'd say Wario will live to ~160% meanwhile Falco will live to about 120%.
Falco dominates at long range, Wario is good in the air, not dominant though (certainly wins here). Wario and Falco probably split close to even on the ground. I'd give the edge to Falco. Primarily due to the fact that he will most likely be able to string moves together more fluidly. The Fsmash with superarmor is painful, however.
The chaingrab works well here. A smart Wario will be pretty difficult to grab. Like it was stated before - they can poke for awhile and just eat the lasers. If done right they might be able to go close to even until around 35% - from there Wario can play aggressive.
There will be tons of mind games. A lot of it doing with the ridiculous air DI Wario has and lasers.
Wario has a tough time approaching, but doesn't have too much of a problem staying in your face. It is hard to reset the spacing with phantasm considering his Nair comes out so fast.
Falco will probably be killing with FSmash, USmash, or Bair.
Wario will probably kill with FSmash, Uair, or Waft.
With Japes now banned (?) it is probably going to be in Falco's best interest to CP Final Destination.
This seems pretty even.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Wario escaping earlier? Cool I suppose. Can anyone confirm that? (CG is annoying)
Blad01
Smash Lord
The "new" ruleset proposed by Umbreon is not really related to SBR. I think that we should stick refer to 'SBR Recommended Rules'.
Moreover, TOs will decide the list of stages by themselves.
About Aerial Fight, i don't think that Wario owns totally Falco. Precisely, when you SH an aerial, Wario hasn't really the time to jump at us. If Wario jumps before Falco, i'm almost sure that Bair can outprioritize every Wario's aerials.
Wario owns Falco in the airs if they jump at the same time, facing each other, because Falco's Dair won't beat every Wario's aerial (it can trade hits sometimes i think).
Generally, it's with an aerial that Falco will kill Wario : Uair, or more obviously Bair offstage. FSmash can also be a good killing option if we predict Wario's movement, because it outrange his FSmash, Tilts.
Boost Smash is a less reliable option, it kills Wario at 126% fresh.
It may as well be even, but I'd tilt this ever-so-slightly in Wario's favor.
Falco REALLY just can't get the kill here. Wario being in the air as he is, a Falco D-Smash is unlikely, and a whiffed U-Smash means your ass. A smart Wario should be able to avoid Falco's F-Smash's weird hitbox. Lasers are annoying, but Wario's aerial mobility allows him to get around with little damage/trouble.
Wario pressuring ability works well against Falco here. Lots of Bite works wonders, because most of the attacks that go around it don't do a whole lot of damage, and Wario's not going to keep holding B so you can position yourself for a free Smash on him.
Falco really needs the chaingrab for damage, 'cause it's hard to get anything but a stray B-Air KO on Wario at 150%. Wario's autocancelled U-Air -> U-Air tacks on a free 33% or so, and a single U-Air does a number on shields, so it's something to watch out for. Mostly, pin him down. I feel like D-Air is quite nice here, because it positions you for follow-ups well (like a chaingrab at low percents, or an appropriate aerial at higher percents). Because of Wario's crap range, you can try to camp him out, and it works alright. Just make sure that you can fight normally when he gets by it, and don't play incredibly defensive.
Most neutral matchups involving Falco are very much momentum-based, from what I've seen. A match can turn around in an instant. Don't get grabbed, or N-Air'd around, because Wario will juggle you across the stage with weak aerials and Bite mindgames.
I might come back and talk a little more; I'm hungry right now.
Falco REALLY just can't get the kill here. Wario being in the air as he is, a Falco D-Smash is unlikely, and a whiffed U-Smash means your ass. A smart Wario should be able to avoid Falco's F-Smash's weird hitbox. Lasers are annoying, but Wario's aerial mobility allows him to get around with little damage/trouble.
Wario pressuring ability works well against Falco here. Lots of Bite works wonders, because most of the attacks that go around it don't do a whole lot of damage, and Wario's not going to keep holding B so you can position yourself for a free Smash on him.
Falco really needs the chaingrab for damage, 'cause it's hard to get anything but a stray B-Air KO on Wario at 150%. Wario's autocancelled U-Air -> U-Air tacks on a free 33% or so, and a single U-Air does a number on shields, so it's something to watch out for. Mostly, pin him down. I feel like D-Air is quite nice here, because it positions you for follow-ups well (like a chaingrab at low percents, or an appropriate aerial at higher percents). Because of Wario's crap range, you can try to camp him out, and it works alright. Just make sure that you can fight normally when he gets by it, and don't play incredibly defensive.
Most neutral matchups involving Falco are very much momentum-based, from what I've seen. A match can turn around in an instant. Don't get grabbed, or N-Air'd around, because Wario will juggle you across the stage with weak aerials and Bite mindgames.
I might come back and talk a little more; I'm hungry right now.
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,535
Lol. Thats mean. I always approach a lasering falco with the bike and almost never get reflectored off.
Blad01
Smash Lord
Well, you play against bad Falco.
Vlade
Social Outcast
Ok, maybe it's ok to approach with the bike against a falco that uses grounded lasers. My mistake.
But yes DMG certainly has a point - wario can just poke and prod falco to apply immense pressure. It's up to falco to deal with that, since it can get frustrating not being able to grab, let alone hit a wario.
Yoshi has the best air speed.Week #15 :Wario
The most aerial mobile character in the game, a Super Armor on his F-Smash, a Fart (lol), a Bike... One of the biggest surprises of the roster, Wario is great ! How should we fight against him ?
Discuss !
I disagree.
J4pu
Smash Champion
Fiction you going to Oki's?
I play you often in friendlies but you always pick some random character so I just go Marth
Oki's
My Falco
Your Wario
Wario has most air mobility (ability to change directions well (high acceleration?)), Yoshi has most horizontal air speed
I play you often in friendlies but you always pick some random character so I just go Marth
Oki's
My Falco
Your Wario
Well you are wrong
Wario has most air mobility (ability to change directions well (high acceleration?)), Yoshi has most horizontal air speed
I had assumed you meant the overall movement; oh well. My mistake.
TechnoMonster
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 836
I would say that this match is even, on the basis not that either character has no particular advantage or any kind of stalemate situation, but that both characters **** each other fairly hard in completely different aspects of the game.
Wario can gun for a lot of options, like D-air setups and crossups, F-throw and bite setups, or just bump Falco off the stage and try to keep it going, all the while building damage here and there and setting up for major KO moves.
Falco is looking to win the damage race because edgegaurding Wario is very hard for Falco. Falco has CGs, lasers, a good shield lockdown game, and a solid n-air for beating out Wario in situations, as well as his up-smash for a solid thwack and f-smash for forward priority.
Wario can gun for a lot of options, like D-air setups and crossups, F-throw and bite setups, or just bump Falco off the stage and try to keep it going, all the while building damage here and there and setting up for major KO moves.
Falco is looking to win the damage race because edgegaurding Wario is very hard for Falco. Falco has CGs, lasers, a good shield lockdown game, and a solid n-air for beating out Wario in situations, as well as his up-smash for a solid thwack and f-smash for forward priority.