Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

Kinzer · Nov 22, 2008

^^

What he said.

Yoshi has a 2-3 frame Jab, and Nair is a sex kick (we all know how Sonic does with that).

Most likely Yoshi is going to time his jab so it clanks with our rolls, and will jab again to get us out of range because it's just that fast, or some other junk he has in his arsenal.

ROOOOY! · Nov 22, 2008

Eggs aren't that hard to avoid.
Try using Ganon/Bowser and getting ***** by them.

SDR = Egg roll?

No no no. I'm pretty sure we outprioritize it if it's going slow (no color), but it outprioritizes us if it's yellow and fast.

Uair's pretty easy to avoid. You're only getting hit by that if you're sprung and coming back to ground, or you're like blind or something, because he can't really set it up. It's not that great anyway. Waaaay over rated in my opinion :\

aeghrur · Nov 22, 2008

DACUS is dash attack canceled up smash.
No, I meant like, full charged of both will cancel.

Jim Morrison · Nov 22, 2008

aeghrur said:
DACUS is dash attack canceled up smash.
No, I meant like, full charged of both will cancel.

Oh that. It would barely make a difference for Sonic.

aeghrur · Nov 22, 2008

Gf2tw said:
Oh that. It would barely make a difference for Sonic.

You'd be surprised at how well it does against some to most aerials. Also, a delayed DACUS is pretty good, but that's more mindgames so it doesn't count? lol.

Jim Morrison · Nov 22, 2008

No, it does not. I'd just Hyphen Smash.

Mmac · Nov 22, 2008

ROOOOY! said:
Eggs aren't that hard to avoid.
Try using Ganon/Bowser and getting ***** by them.

Of course it's easy to avoid when you can pretty much punish one anywhere on the stage if you are on the ground >_>

SDR = Egg roll?

No no no. I'm pretty sure we outprioritize it if it's going slow (no color), but it outprioritizes us if it's yellow and fast.

Except it's Always going to be fast when in use. It doesn't take much time to reach full speed

ROOOOY! said:
Uair's pretty easy to avoid. You're only getting hit by that if you're sprung and coming back to ground, or you're like blind or something, because he can't really set it up. It's not that great anyway. Waaaay over rated in my opinion :\

Here's the thing though, even if you can see it coming and airdodge, it recovers fast enough for Yoshi to just simply stay on him and just punish the airdodge with another Uair, or a different aerial. Just because you can see it coming doesn't mean that you can escape it.

Also I'm online right now if anyone want's to play some WahFi, but I haven't played Brawl in a Week because of that **** router.

ROOOOY! · Nov 22, 2008

I wanna play you Mikeeee.
But it'd be mega lag-fi.

Oh, and I agree with what you've said up thar.

Jim Morrison · Nov 22, 2008

Mmac said:
Here's the thing though, even if you can see it coming and airdodge, it recovers fast enough for Yoshi to just simply stay on him and just punish the airdodge with another Uair, or a different aerial. Just because you can see it coming doesn't mean that you can escape it.

There's a spring invented for that. If we just used Spring and are falling, and Yoshi will U-air, you know you're gonna D-air trough it, just for kicks. I doubt Yoshi will be under me when I'm recovering from below the ledge. So yea, Sonic isn't easy to U-air (except when unexpected (WUTTT))

Also I'm online right now if anyone want's to play some WahFi, but I haven't played Brawl in a Week because of that **** router.

I'll play you, I think we're equal now you haven't played a week (or you're gonna beat me)

I'll play, you host it

Mmac · Nov 22, 2008

**** it! Router went down again.

aeghrur · Nov 22, 2008

Lol, Johns.
JK.

Kinzer · Nov 22, 2008

I love this guy and his emoticons.

I gotta get me some Sonike emoticons, seriously.

Greenstreet · Nov 23, 2008

Wanting a new char no?

Greenstreet · Nov 23, 2008

coz i can so do that.

Greenstreet · Nov 23, 2008

like totally.

Greenstreet · Nov 23, 2008

seriously. i'm your man.

It's Falco know btw folks.

Jim Morrison · Nov 23, 2008

Ok, do it, Green!

Greenstreet · Nov 23, 2008

Someone wanna go make the thread in the falco boards?

Also I want this linked in somehow on how we view the matchup: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=HnF5LR869yA

Jim Morrison · Nov 23, 2008

LOLOLOL I cba to make the thread, I have no clue how.

Jim Morrison · Nov 23, 2008

Green, edit first post. The ones after Snake all send me to Ness matchup discussion.

Jim Morrison · Nov 23, 2008

Piece of cake!

Character Behaviour-
Falco has a projectile, meaning you are forced to approach. Falco and you have about the same max range, but he has more attacks that have med range. His reflector will space you, and it can trip. His lazarss come out quickly with SHDL. In the air falco has a spike/meteor, a sex kick (B-air), N-air (pretty annoying), F-air (much like Sonic's, but he can't SH F-air without landing lag) and U-air (not much special)

Commonly Used Moves-
Lazer is there to force you approach. Sonic can NOT be normal CG'ed, your Spring will take care of that. His B-air is a pain, it's such a sex kick. His Smashes are all good killers, and kill at center FD at around 115%. His F-smash can hit you from the back. He has a good F-tilt to 'GTFO my face' you. He will use his Side-B to recover, because his Up-B fails him.

How to Win-
Gimp him. Get him under the ledge and drop Springs, Springs, Springs. Do quick approach, grabs and rolling. Don't be afraid of grabs, his D-throw can do 9% (it's his strongest throw), which isn't an awful lot. Your grab game exceeds his, your B-air exceeds his, your U-air is disjointed, use it from below. Just keep racking up damage and save F-smash and D-smash. You can kill him at 110% with F-smash/D-smash.
PROTIP: Use D-throw/Smash to get him below ledge.

Recommended Stages-
Lylat Cruise makes his recovery from below even worse, Brinstar will make it impossible to lazer you and it will annoy will Falco. Rainbow Cruise seems fair too, because in the air you > Falco. Also Frigate Orpheon might be the shizzles. For neutrals pick Lylat Cruise or Battlefield.
FD and Smashville only support his lazers.

Rating
60:40 Falco. He's just a hard matchup if you go check it.

ROOOOY! · Nov 23, 2008

G2ftw, that's actually pretty good '.'

The only things I'd look at outta all that is his aerials. Nair is understated, it's his most problematic aerial IMO. Fair is absolute garbage compared to the rest of him, good Falco's will use this really rarely, if not never.

His Illusion (side B) is fairly easy to knock him out of actually; fair, dair, uair, bair all knock him out guaranteed, not too sure about nair, probably not. Even though his Illusion meteors, you're not going to die from it because of spring.

I don't agree with us being better than Falco in the air, but agree with the stages.

IDC that top players are losing against Falco's, they're not hard if you actually practice against one regularly, I'd infact call it even.

But for the sake of not being controversial, I'll say 40:60.

Jim Morrison · Nov 23, 2008

ROOOOY! said:
G2ftw, that's actually pretty good '.'

The only things I'd look at outta all that is his aerials. Nair is understated, it's his most problematic aerial IMO. Fair is absolute garbage compared to the rest of him, good Falco's will use this really rarely, if not never.

Well, yea, his SH N-air is pretty good, but there are better things for him to do. I say Falco is better on ground than in the air (HE'S A BIRD AND YOU'RE A HEDGEHOD), however his B-air is still problemetic.

His Illusion (side B) is fairly easy to knock him out of actually; fair, dair, uair, bair all knock him out guaranteed, not too sure about nair, probably not. Even though his Illusion meteors, you're not going to die from it because of spring.

Quoted for truth, thanks for adding it

I don't agree with us being better than Falco in the air, but agree with the stages.

You just know it's true. We got da magic N-air, U-air and B-air. Falco has a spike which can be good if well placed, but it's not much of a problem for the magic spring. His U-air is laughable, I never see it being used. And the rest is already described.

IDC that top players are losing against Falco's, they're not hard if you actually practice against one regularly, I'd infact call it even.

But for the sake of not being controversial, I'll say 40:60.

It's somewhere around 50

all or 40:60

Anyway, wanna brawl my black Flaco?

ROOOOY! · Nov 23, 2008

Yeah, okay then.
I'll go yellow Sonic <3

Jim Morrison · Nov 23, 2008

Ok boy, adding you, you'll host

darkNES386 · Nov 23, 2008

This may be general knowledge with most opponents, but a uair is one of your best options for breaking out of any aerial combos Falco has you in. On the ground I agree that a spring gets you out of trouble, but if the Falco player is good you're going to need to back him off without simplying launching yourself sky high.

Try and abuse Sonic's speed to punish Falco's predictable recoveries. Falco really has only two options 1) either b move to the ledge or an agressive forward b right at you above stage. Instant Edge Hogs and well timed bairs can really make life difficult for Falco then. Furthermore, the up b leaves him like a sitting duck for you to RARFF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HecEODFohjE <-- look past the foolish deaths please lol
@32 uair breaks me out of his chain of attacks
@55 I guessed right on the recovery
@1:07 he started reading me right and caught me spin dash jumping
@2:17 does anyone know what happens if I HA through Falco's illusion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkWCpT5Goe8
@53 seconds - edge hog
@1:44 - some of the mean combos, he could probably do this much better offline (one of our matches he pulled like 4in a row) -- uair with DI away was my ticket here... I think
@2:38 probably shouldn't have chased him offstage because he wasn't far enough away. That's why he quickly just got back on since it was his safest option.
@2:45 again I did a horrilble job of chasing him and he just got back safely... perhaps feinting a chase and then quickly getting back on with a spin shot could work.
@3:53 I got really lucky

ShadowLink84 · Nov 23, 2008

If you HA the Falco illusion you'll clang with it .

Napilopez · Nov 23, 2008

Honestly the worst thing about this matchup imo are his dthrow followups: Chain grab, Dthrow>Dair, and especially Dthrow>DACUS. His dacus actually hits with the Dash attack AND the usmash. He will rack up damage on you, really quick. He will likely have problems killing you though, as none of his kill moves are particularly special. Sonic can get around his lasers better than probably everyone else without a projectile of there own(and that cant crawl), but that doesn't stop the lasers from being annoying.While approaching falco isn't exactly difficult, lasers can create small openings for falco to take advantage of. Illusion is really a joke against Sonic, lawl. Or at least, its less reliable to use against Sonic than probably anyone else(perhaps its less viable against chars with long lasting hitbox moves). If used on stage, you can run and grab by the time falco lands, if used offstage, you can run a large portion of the stage into an instant edge hog. Basically, you can get to wherever the illusion ends to punish falco for it. Its one the things I love about playing the fastest runner in the game. <3 Sonic.

I don't find bair annoying, Maybe because Sonic's bair can beat it, and its just easy enough to avoid overall IMO. His uair isn't a big deal, his fair is a lolquaza lame version of yours, his dair is highly ineffective against Sonic for anything other than damage, but his naircan be problematic.

Jab isnt a big deal from my exp. DI away>ftilt. Actually, ftilt alot, since you totally outrange falco on the ground with it. Dtilt strings are too good here, just be wary not to get shieldgrabbed.

Ehh, I always thought this matchup was even, but I've had bad times against falco's recently.

Whats the best way to avoid Dthrow followups?

~TBS~ · Nov 23, 2008

well nape, the only way i know is the spring from cg. if the falco dairs from the dthrow, i dont think there is any way out of it. And its so hard to say dont get grabbed. all i can see is to use your speed to set him up. and even if you do get caught by the dthrow, it wont impact the match that much.

ROOOOY! · Nov 23, 2008

It stopped lagging after our Sonic v Falco matches xC
Dthrow isn't bad btw. I think you can only go into a jab from it, but I dunno, too laggy to tell.

darkNES386 · Nov 23, 2008

Napilopez said:
I don't find bair annoying, Maybe because Sonic's bair can beat it, and its just easy enough to avoid overall IMO. His uair isn't a big deal, his fair is a lolquaza lame version of yours, his dair is highly ineffective against Sonic for anything other than damage, but his naircan be problematic.

Ehh, I always thought this matchup was even, but I've had bad times against falco's recently.

Whats the best way to avoid Dthrow followups?

1: dair can be dangerous for Sonic if Falco is able to connect with it. Am I missing something?
2: I agree that this matchup is quite close... at least close enough to where the player smarts becomes a major factor.
3: I think spring is the easiest... you might be able to fair as you DI away to prevent a second down throw.

Espy Rose · Nov 23, 2008

darkNES386 said:
3: I think spring is the easiest... you might be able to fair as you DI away to prevent a second down throw.

Wrong.

You cannot DI away from Falco's chaingrab at all, until 40-ish%, not even with upB and DI.
The only reason any Sonic gets away from a Falco chaingrab would be because of the Falco mis-timing it.

darkNES386 · Nov 23, 2008

Thanks puffball, I was just fishing for something.

Mmac · Nov 23, 2008

Anyone notice that not a Single Falco is here?

MarKO X · Nov 23, 2008

Another matchup I can't stand.

Best Falcos I've played belong to D1 and this guy named 34. They owned me.

And then all the other Falcos I've played are meh. On my level, the matchup seems to be 60:40, because laser camping from Falco is good, but Falco can be an offensive threat to you as well. But definitely do your best to gimp, don't be afraid of it. Dthrow at the edge of the stage is your best friend.

Carbonated · Nov 23, 2008

Mmac said:
Anyone notice that not a Single Falco is here?

There is now.

I haven't faced any good sonics, but I have faced a decent sonic from my school tournament.

First, chaingrabbing has to be perfectly timed for falco against sonic. Sonic is able to escape with up b which annoys me. It also means it is hard to end the chaingrab with a dair or dash cancel.

Depending on the stage, you can just dash right at falco when he decides to camp with SHDL. If it is a smaller stage you can just dash attack since the falco may or may not react to it due to sonics amazing speed. This is why I usually just SHL so I can phantasm if I see sonic approching.

Stages to ban:
Jungle Japes- Falco just ***** here.

I can't really help much since my friend wasn't that good with sonic. I think I had like 2 stock left. But not many people were good at my school anyways.

Sorry I couldn't help much

Greenstreet said:
Someone wanna go make the thread in the falco boards?

Also I want this linked in somehow on how we view the matchup: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=HnF5LR869yA

HEY! Hands off my bread D:

Ohwell, I still got my Pizza Cake.

Edit: If you want a good detailed matchup description, ask Vlade.

8AngeL8 · Nov 23, 2008

I've faced a couple of decent sonics, and I think it's 60:40 Falco's favor. Falco's camp game is pretty gimped due to the fact that Sonic can close the gap instantly.

On the ground I think they go even. Sonic has the speed and can easily get around to Falco's weak points, but Falco has SHL, reflector, Ftilt, and short hopped bairs to keep Sonic spaced.

At short hop height I think Falco wins, due to his ability to utiltize Nair, Bair OR fair as the situation needs. Sonic wins out at full hop and above, simply due to his greater mobilty and pillaring abilities.

Sonic wins the off stage game, but he's going to have trouble GETTING Falco off stage due to his lack of killing ability and Falco's great spacing game. Falco will probably be consistently killing Sonic at lower percentages.

darkNES386 · Nov 23, 2008

8AngeL8 said:
Falco will probably be consistently killing Sonic at lower percentages.

What gives you that idea?

Edit: Can you be more specific?

Napilopez · Nov 23, 2008

I think he means at lower percentages than Sonic will be killing falco. Not necesarily Ike Fsmash low. =P

Either way I'm not sure, because Falco is gonna have a relatively toughtough time landing a kill move on Sonic, methinks.

Carbonated · Nov 23, 2008

Napilopez said:
I think he means at lower percentages than Sonic will be killing falco. Not necesarily Ike Fsmash low. =P

Either way I'm not sure, because Falco is gonna have a relatively toughtough time landing a kill move on Sonic, methinks.

Bair comes out quick enough. It can kill at about 130% or so. Fsmash does have a bit of lag so yeah it can be hard.

I'm not exactly sure about sonics kill potential.

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