• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

What is Sonic's worst match up?


  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
Ganondorf sucks </fact>

Seriously, he's even worse than Ike. He's by far the worst character (imo).

Sonic should be able to gimp Ganondorf every time he's offstage. Ganons recovery sucks, and he's too slow.
His punishing game is pretty amazing though.

demo vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PccEQMQAMVo

Watch the raep that Ganondorf can pull from one good flame choke (used as a punisher, not an approach) :l

So in this matchup, I'd take into account which of Sonic's moves Ganon can punish/outprioritize and how hard he can hurt them. Really, try to do a spindash > aerial on an idle Ganondorf, and he'll catch you out of shield with something
 

JayBee

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
2,173
Location
Green Hill Zone, MD/VA
NNID
jamesbrownjrva
sonic versus ganon is a great matchup because it really is the battle of the better player. but i've only really played not so good ganons so its **** every time. I saw G-reg play him once, but never got to play his ganon. sigh. I want to play a good ganon.

I still think its in sonics favor though. 70/30. Ganons to slow to hit sonic with anything unless the sonic screws up badly, and if sonic keeps moving, it makes Ganons side b less usable, which IMO is one of his best moves and setups.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
sonic versus ganon is a great matchup because it really is the battle of the better player. but i've only really played not so good ganons so its **** every time. I saw G-reg play him once, but never got to play his ganon. sigh. I want to play a good ganon.

I still think its in sonics favor though. 70/30. Ganons to slow to hit sonic with anything unless the sonic screws up badly, and if sonic keeps moving, it makes Ganons side b less usable, which IMO is one of his best moves and setups.
O__o;

70/30 is extreme lol. Like, Metaknight/Sonic extreme... Flame Choke grabs Sonic out of almost all direct spindash approaches. If you wanna try a Ganondorf who isn't G-reg, try ZeonStar. He's pretty fun to play with.



If it's a battle of the better player, wouldn't it be neutral?

This is kind of like the Fox matchup where both characters are punisher types. Fox had some attack speed and priority advantages to compliment his "I can punish harder!" aspect in comparison to Sonic's "I punish more often!" aspects. Ganondorf also has the "I raep you when I punish" deal but with 'neutral' attack speed issues (startup lag can be a problem, but he can mask ending lag really well - SH U-airs, D-airs, and B-airs all finish before landing).
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
O__o;

70/30 is extreme lol. Like, Metaknight/Sonic extreme... Flame Choke grabs Sonic out of almost all direct spindash approaches. If you wanna try a Ganondorf who isn't G-reg, try ZeonStar. He's pretty fun to play with.
THat can be said for Ganondorf vs anyone on the ground. They dash attack I grabb you out of it.
Command grabs are sexy but its countered by aerials. Bair/Fair I like most. Uair works out well.


If it's a battle of the better player, wouldn't it be neutral?
Win!
This is kind of like the Fox matchup where both characters are punisher types. Fox had some attack speed and priority advantages to compliment his "I can punish harder!" aspect in comparison to Sonic's "I punish more often!" aspects. Ganondorf also has the "I raep you when I punish" deal but with 'neutral' attack speed issues (startup lag can be a problem, but he can mask ending lag really well - SH U-airs, D-airs, and B-airs all finish before landing).
[/quote] The ending lag isn't an issue its startup. Startup issues tend to hit harder because of spacing which is so very important this time around.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
U-air and B-air come out fast lol. I think U-air comes out almost instantly, actually :l

D-air is medium-fast.

Ending lag makes for more of the "punishment" aspect of the game.
Startup lag just kind of determines just how susceptible Ganondorf is to feints, and people don't like to think about that in matchup discussions @___@
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
im gonna go with 60-40 sonic, and its not that sonic can just sit there and brick wall with f-air, im saying that if you just run up and f-air through him, i dont think he can do anything to hit you out of shield.
and in a tourney match, if he has more damage than you, (this is like the only time that i can say this,) camp the hell out of him. hes way too slow to keep up and the vast difference in mobility will put him in a situation where he has to some bold things to have a chance to hit you, and with sonics amazing punishment game and ganons terribad approaching skills, if you can camp him, it should be a relatively easy win.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
im gonna go with 60-40 sonic, and its not that sonic can just sit there and brick wall with f-air, im saying that if you just run up and f-air through him, i dont think he can do anything to hit you out of shield.
Pretty sure he can U-air OoS if you're doing a FH/SDJ F-air, and he might be able to grab you or spotdodge>punish otherwise
 

Napilopez

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,775
Location
Columbia University, NY
OMG we've been on this matchup for so long XD ^_^.

70:30 is way too extreme. Sonic doesn't go 70:30 on anyone, lolz.

60:40 or 55:45 sounds right to me.

I think on paper this is a 6:40 matchup, more 55:45 IRL with 2 good experienced and knowledgeable playets. I just don't think ganon can fully get around how easy it is for Sonic to gimp him. Springggg, bair spikes, HA, this that, you name it.

Also, flame choke doesn't grab Sonic out of a properly angled ASC. Although if you approach with ASC directly, you're leaving yourself open to eat an aerial.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
Pretty sure he can U-air OoS if you're doing a FH/SDJ F-air, and he might be able to grab you or spotdodge>punish otherwise
you must not under stand the concept of SH f-airing THROUGH HIM. like as in, holding forward the entire time so that you end up on the other side of him.

when done correctly it cant be shield grabbed,
turn around forward air is too slow.
up air takes too long ot hit on the other side of him.
xiivi tried to do a instant shield drop turn aroud f-tilt on me and i was even to far away for that.
he might be able to back air OOS but that might even miss as well.
if you do it right it has a severe limiting effect on ganons retalliation abilities, and if he chooses the wrong option he is easily punished
 

SaltyKracka

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
San Diego, CA
I can get you guys a good online ganon player if you want to test yourself against him lol.
Well, I play a fairly decent Ganon (I'm not anywhere near Kosk's level, though), though I have NO experience against a good Sonic. So I'd be happy to volunteer and maybe let this be a learning experience for both boards.
 

SaltyKracka

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,983
Location
San Diego, CA
Great, you're brawling me. Add me, you host.
Thaaaaat might not be the best of ideas.

1. You live in the Netherlands. I live on the FAR west coast of the USA, and as far as I can tell, you even lagged with FD, who lives in THE SAME **** CITY as you.
2. I can't be on until after at least 5:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, which would mean you'd have to be on at or after midnight, your time.
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
Thaaaaat might not be the best of ideas.

1. You live in the Netherlands. I live on the FAR west coast of the USA, and as far as I can tell, you even lagged with FD, who lives in THE SAME **** CITY as you.
2. I can't be on until after at least 5:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, which would mean you'd have to be on at or after midnight, your time.
... Dang Americans... Afraid of Europeans...
 

Napilopez

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,775
Location
Columbia University, NY
Thaaaaat might not be the best of ideas.

1. You live in the Netherlands. I live on the FAR west coast of the USA, and as far as I can tell, you even lagged with FD, who lives in THE SAME **** CITY as you.
2. I can't be on until after at least 5:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, which would mean you'd have to be on at or after midnight, your time.
Just to say something about this.

I live in NY.

I had the smoother connection I've EVER had with anyone on WFC, against someone in PERU.

NY to PERU.

The connection was better than with people in my city.

I also often have better connections with people in Texas than I do with people in NY.

So yea, WFC is weird.

EDIT:

OH SNAP THIS WAS my post # 1,337 w00t.

My Connection is 1337.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
That's awesome, edit your post so that Steak is in it.

DO IT!

:090:

Anyway Salty, if you come back here when I'm Online, feel free to hit me up, some matchup experience is better than nothing... although since I've attended two in-person tourney, my Wi-Fi skills have gone down I think.

Owell, it's probably better that we stayed on Ganon just to cover up some minor things.

Where is Greenstreet anyway, would he at least have told us when he would be going away?
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Well okay, I just got done Brawling with Salty over Lag-Fi, and I must say some things.

I knew the King was awesome BEFORE I Brawled him, but now I realize just how much win he is made of.

Salty handed my *** to me, it could be Wi-Fi, matchup inexperience, Ganon is really better than Sonic, or he just outright beat me in terms of skill, either way Ganon is God, and no, that's a typo of "good".

Thanks Salty, but I think I've had about enough of Wi-Fi for now... or just about enough pwn sauce from the King.
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
We've gotta wait for Greenstreet to get back first -_-

If he's not back by the end of today, I'd imagine he's gone to wherever he was going to. I remember he was saying that he was going around about christmas, actually.

Then someone else can do the template.
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
I thought it was somewhere in Africa that he was going? lol

If we carry on whilst he's gone, I've got that match-up chart on my computer that I've been updating, and I'll stick that on my first post in this thread, which is like post #3.
 

Chis

Finally a legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
4,797
Location
London, England
NNID
ArcadianPirate
CAPTAIN FALCON - Character Matchup 22



Introduction
Captain Falcon has been in the Smash Bros. Series right from the start. Always being a decent character, built for combos, he'd receive decent credit. In Brawl, however, he has been nerfed on some aspects. Hitstun was reduced, making Falcon less of a combo machine, thus reducing his effectiveness. His awesome finisher, the Knee of Justice, has also been nerfed. It now has a much smaller box of time for a sweetspot.

Behaviour:
Falcon is quite the aggresive character. It depends on the players style in this matchup wether he approaches or not. It's basicly a camp fast. You can keep camping. Another thing worth noting: Both are speed characters and rely a lot on punishment. Falcon kills earlier than Sonic and has more priority, however, Sonic has the tools to gimp and punish well. Falcon is much more dominant in the air than on the ground.

Commonly Used Moves:
Jab: Falcon jab is sexsauce, he can hold A and spam it over 9000 times a second. It also has a good priority. Falcons jab is about 50% of his ground game. He has tons of followups with single/double jabs. He can grab, repeat jabs, finish the jabs or up-B to punish a shielder after jabbing.

U-tilt: Falcons U-tilt is another one of his amazing ground moves. He can spam it. It's got IASA frames and WAY too good priority/range on it. Can kill. Falcon can sort of safely spam this move when you are hanging on the ledge.

U-air: This is how Falcon becomes a winrar. It can combo at low %, kill at higher %, cancels out a spring you drop, be AC'd and more more more cool stuff. A very good move. Also beats out our D-air.

D-air: This isn't very effective in this matchup, since it won't spike up to 50% or so, where we can just spring back. This should only hit you when coming out of a Spring, and even then you should airdodge/U-air it.

B-air: An amazing Falcon aerial, can be SHFF without lag. Weak hitbox leads to followups, strong hitbox kills. B-air your opponent with awesome spacing.

F-air: The Knee. Nerfed from melee, but still should be feared. You think you'll never get hit, but oh, play a good Falcon and see yourself getting Knee'd once every stock. This isn't used as an approach anymore, but more as a punisher. Most obvious to punish Sonic would be laggy F-airs, D-airs or airdodges. This is totally gonna kill you.

D-smash: A good, quick move that should never be forgotten. It punishes rolls amazingly well. Near the ledge it covers getup, roll and jump. This should be shielded and then grabbed.

F-smash: Another good killer, however has a lot of cooldown to it. Shield it and dashgrab in. This move can also be stutterstepped.

Grab: Falcon has an (above) average grab game. Decent pummels and throws. D-throw leads into stuff if you don't pay attention. Airdodge after being D-thrown.

How to Win:
In this match you should by no means play aggresively. Instead, play safe, leave no openings and don't get punished. Gimping Falcon is no easy task, as his up-B grabs you out of your attacks. Space well. If you get close you get jabbed, which can do easily 15-20%. Don't be afraid to shield, his moves don't take away an awesome amount of shield, except F-smash. Try to stay grounded here. Don't Spindash more than necessary, Falcons jab clanks, after which he can do another jab. In the air your main moves should be U-air and B-air. Make sure you get down to the ground ASAP and airdodge frequently.

Don't be predictable with your recovery. Switch up between normal jumps, high Springs, side-B recovery. Also, don't go swinging your kill moves around, you'll want your moves fresh every chance you get. Play to rack up damage. Sonics F-air is a decent move, as it goes over Jab. Watch out for Falcon Kick ledge cancel stuff. However, only a few Falcons can actually implement it (LIKE SPINSHOT). If Falcon has some prediction, you might just get hit by a Falcon Punch.

Grab Falcon a lot, throw him around. U-throw > Spring > U-air is always decent, but DI messes it up. Can kill at 100%. Don't pummel, throw it out immedeatly.

Recommended Stages:

Ban Battlefield, Falcon seriously get an advantage from the platforms
Counterpick Final Destination, the lack of platforms give you the oppurtunity to abuse the fact that you are faster than the 2nd fastest in the game.

Matchup Summary:

:sonic: 55:45 :falcon:
___________________________________________________

We didn't have a lot of Falcon input here, so I based some of this from own expierence.
Thanks Gf2tw.
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
CAPTAIN FALCON - Character Matchup 22



Introduction
Captain Falcon has been in the Smash Bros. Series right from the start. Always being a decent character, built for combos, he'd receive decent credit. In Brawl, however, he has been nerfed on some aspects. Hitstun was reduced, making Falcon less of a combo machine, thus reducing his effectiveness. His awesome finisher, the Knee of Justice, has also been nerfed. It now has a much smaller box of time for a sweetspot.

Behaviour:
Falcon is quite the aggresive character. It depends on the players style in this matchup wether he approaches or not. It's basicly a camp fast. You can keep camping. Another thing worth noting: Both are speed characters and rely a lot on punishment. Falcon kills earlier than Sonic and has more priority, however, Sonic has the tools to gimp and punish well. Falcon is much more dominant in the air than on the ground.

Commonly Used Moves:
Jab: Falcon jab is sexsauce, he can hold A and spam it over 9000 times a second. It also has a good priority. Falcons jab is about 50% of his ground game. He has tons of followups with single/double jabs. He can grab, repeat jabs, finish the jabs or up-B to punish a shielder after jabbing.

U-tilt: Falcons U-tilt is another one of his amazing ground moves. He can spam it. It's got IASA frames and WAY too good priority/range on it. Can kill. Falcon can sort of safely spam this move when you are hanging on the ledge.

U-air: This is how Falcon becomes a winrar. It can combo at low %, kill at higher %, cancels out a spring you drop, be AC'd and more more more cool stuff. A very good move. Also beats out our D-air.

D-air: This isn't very effective in this matchup, since it won't spike up to 50% or so, where we can just spring back. This should only hit you when coming out of a Spring, and even then you should airdodge/U-air it.

B-air: An amazing Falcon aerial, can be SHFF without lag. Weak hitbox leads to followups, strong hitbox kills. B-air your opponent with awesome spacing.

F-air: The Knee. Nerfed from melee, but still should be feared. You think you'll never get hit, but oh, play a good Falcon and see yourself getting Knee'd once every stock. This isn't used as an approach anymore, but more as a punisher. Most obvious to punish Sonic would be laggy F-airs, D-airs or airdodges. This is totally gonna kill you.

D-smash: A good, quick move that should never be forgotten. It punishes rolls amazingly well. Near the ledge it covers getup, roll and jump. This should be shielded and then grabbed.

F-smash: Another good killer, however has a lot of cooldown to it. Shield it and dashgrab in. This move can also be stutterstepped.

Grab: Falcon has an (above) average grab game. Decent pummels and throws. D-throw leads into stuff if you don't pay attention. Airdodge after being D-thrown.

How to Win:
In this match you should by no means play aggresively. Instead, play safe, leave no openings and don't get punished. Gimping Falcon is no easy task, as his up-B grabs you out of your attacks. Space well. If you get close you get jabbed, which can do easily 15-20%. Don't be afraid to shield, his moves don't take away an awesome amount of shield, except F-smash. Try to stay grounded here. Don't Spindash more than necessary, Falcons jab clanks, after which he can do another jab. In the air your main moves should be U-air and B-air. Make sure you get down to the ground ASAP and airdodge frequently.

Don't be predictable with your recovery. Switch up between normal jumps, high Springs, side-B recovery. Also, don't go swinging your kill moves around, you'll want your moves fresh every chance you get. Play to rack up damage. Sonics F-air is a decent move, as it goes over Jab. Watch out for Falcon Kick ledge cancel stuff. However, only a few Falcons can actually implement it (LIKE SPINSHOT). If Falcon has some prediction, you might just get hit by a Falcon Punch.

Grab Falcon a lot, throw him around. U-throw > Spring > U-air is always decent, but DI messes it up. Can kill at 100%. Don't pummel, throw it out immedeatly.

Recommended Stages:

Ban Battlefield, Falcon seriously get an advantage from the platforms
Counterpick Final Destination, the lack of platforms give you the oppurtunity to abuse the fact that you are faster than the 2nd fastest in the game.

Matchup Summary:

:sonic: 55:45 :falcon:
___________________________________________________

We didn't have a lot of Falcon input here, so I based some of this from own expierence.
 

Ayaz18

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
2,052
Location
Canada, ON, St. catharines
most Falcon's won't be a pushover, but the few exceptional Falcon players can give Sonic a tough time. Things to keep in mind it to NEVER be in the air with him, his Bair and Uair are ridiculous in speed, priority, and range. Also KOing is really hard with Sonic unless you stay fresh with Fsmash and Dsmash, like when I use Falcon even against Snake, I can survive his Utilt till about 130%. but his recovery is predictable and easy to gimp, which is what the key to this match-up is.

I play both Falcon and Sonic
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
i think most of sonics attacks beat his back air.

i learned everything i know about captain falcon from this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPxFCsrWtKc&feature=related

gimping captain falcon is easier than most, its not as easy as ganon but still easier than most.
no offence to any CF players out there, but other than his jab grabs, up air, and randomly walking into his pwer moves, like the knee, up tilt, raptor boost off the edge, or falcon punch, theres really not much to worry about.

more so since, Cf does have some gimping abilities, they are all but wasted on sonic

p.s. weak knee combos into other airials
b- air, first hit of n-air, and u-air, all have very little lag
and if you get hit by a justice knee while having a triple digit damage, you will probably die
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
all of his airial can gimp people in the right situation
example.
f- air works well on ganon because of the postioning he has to have to get the max range from his up b
d-air works well on marth because it avoids his f-air but still knocks him too far away to recover
 
Top Bottom