R.O.B. Match-Up Discussion Week #7: Pikachu!

GO!

Here's the our matchup discussion on ROB:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183672

That really tells you everything from a pika's point of view.

yeah ill give my own opinion. robs tilts outrange everything we have. rob can sheild pressure our already small sheild and make it hard for us. what we have over you is our speed. i still dont think its enough though. i would call this a 60-40 advantadge for rob. ive heard a lot of pikas say different, but i always get destroyed by them. the multitude of projectiles doesnt help. if any robs want to play online i am more then willing to play them to help with the matchup.

That is a ****ing scary picture o_O

Yeah Raptor, it's true that ROB's tilts outrange everything Pika has (and that goes for a lot of other characters as well) but Pika's dsmash ***** our ftilt spam. Even from the tip it will suck ROB in. Of course, Pika's dsmash is even easier to SDI out of than ROB's dsmash, so it's a double-edged sword.

that i did not know. i need to dsmash more often.

when pika d-smashes, it beomes an electromagnet, and rob is metallic, it all adds up!

I guess I more or less want to validate or debunk various aspect of the matchup with this post... so most of this is stating these conjectures for affirmation or de-verification.

Honestly... how effective is using the Side-B to *reverse the polarity of the electromagnet d-smash, thus harming pikachu* (to build off of ipitydatfu's electromagnet analogy)?

Every ROB v Pika discussion I hear vaguely mentions it, but-- it seems like too much trouble. I haven't gotten the chance to test it, but, I don't imagine this works from the *air*, which is the primary use of the Pikachu thunder...storn...lightning bolt...gumdrop... thing. On that subject, its probably old news but I figure I'd mention it anyway... the whole "air dodge when your hear Pikaaaa (and not before) to avoid it", though this may vary depending on percents and such in regards to *when* one can airdodge.

We all know gyros stop thunder-balls. (Im not a pokeymanz fan, so, I don't know the Pokeymanz-->official Brawl term for it as I try to stay as far away from that as I can) We also know that a competant pika will space and time them to hop over the gyro. We also know we can f-air them... and the discussion stops there. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that the Pika can adapt to placing them to deal with that? I would imagine that altering our own 'f-air trajectory' could negate this, but at the same time the Pika can know this and take advantage accordingly. It seems like a series of give and takes, with R.O.B. on the taking (in this analogy- the bad side) unless I am missing something. (Feel free to tell me if I am!)

A brief overview of which way to properly DI various moves (aside from the D-smash) may be beneficial as well... particularly the ?neutral air? (lays out in the air and spins around kinda) and the f-air.

Also, a brief analysis of the 'common' recovery angles taken by pika would be beneficial.

Anyway... sorry this turned into a rather long-ish post of 'we should address these things', its just that I thought understanding these more or less 'basic' aspects would be beneficial in providing a foundation to build the discussion on.

the side b of rob will not affect our dsmash O.o if used on us while we use thunder though, it can trap us in our own thunder and do like 30 damage to us

Stealth Raptor said:

the side b of rob will not affect our dsmash O.o if used on us while we use thunder though, it can trap us in our own thunder and do like 30 damage to us

Click to expand...

Whoa. I didn't know that.

The only Pikachu I've ever played was a SPAMMY mother ****er :k so umm

Against spammy pikachus: Powershield the thunderbolts, punish with laser/ftilt depending on distance. space with ftilt. kill with bair at 110%. You win

DuLL_RaZer said:

A brief overview of which way to properly DI various moves (aside from the D-smash) may be beneficial as well... particularly the ?neutral air? (lays out in the air and spins around kinda) and the f-air.

Click to expand...

It's Pika's b-air. It has a very weird trajectory (even if he does it moving forward, he'll move backwards a little first), and I think -- not 100% sure, someone correct me if I'm wrong -- the sweetspot is Pikachu's head on the last hit.

I don't use b-air often, but when I do, I've noticed that people have a hard time getting away from it because: a) it's not a staple Pika move, so it's usually a surprise when it comes out, and b) by tilting back and forth on the stick, Pikachu can move (a little, not any great distance) like a mini-boomerang in a back-forward-back motion. Or back-backsomemore-forward.

That's a really untechnical way of putting it, but point is if I can anticipate where my opponent will DI, sometimes I can follow them and keep them sucked in til the last hit. The bad news for Pikachu is that b-air has HUGE lag if it hits the ground, so it has to be at least full-hopped to be done safely.

It won't kill you. At least, it's never done for me. I know this doesn't really answer your question, but hopefully it helped a little.

Fairs take care of his projectile, Ftilts outrage him.

Also idk why but they seem to enjoy getting hit with spam >_> I guess camping and poking takes care of the matchup. Whenever you see their (D@MN) fsmash with hax rang, shield it and Ftilt. idk if it actually works but if it doesn't then just use you're long ranged moves :]. I don't think I've ever played a Pikachu that didn't spam but all that works for me.

Nair and Bair will probably become ROB's kill moves in this matchup. You'll rarely ever have a chance to upsmash and good pikas won't put let themselves get hit with fsmash. As razer said, fair cancels out pika's thunderjolts, and if you're trying to hit him with a laser, you need to be pretty good with aiming since Pikachu will probably be jumping around a lot. fair is nice in general =)

Offstage, ROB doesn't really have to worry about pikachu jumping off and following him, although it's worth mentioning that pika can throw out something and quick-attack onto the stage or its edge. I usually recover high to avoid having to deal with thunderjolts in addition to recovering. ROB does, though, need to find a way back to the ground when in the air or offstage. Watch out for thunder when recovering, because as we all know, ROB can't air-dodge unless he splits his up-b by using an aerial. It IS possible to airdodge through pika's thunder and get to the other side without getting hit, so learning the timing for that is very helpful. If you have the chance, though, reflecting a predictable thunder with side-b is preferred. When pikachu is recovering, some send out one/multiple thunderjolts, but they'll all either aim their quick attacks to the edge or far enough across the stage that you can't hit them immediately.

ROB doesn't suffer from pika's throws as much as some other characters do, but make sure that you're never getting hit straight up, either from an upthrow or an upsmash. DI to the side if possible, and avoid having pikachu directly under you. Even if a thunder doesn't come, ROB's aerials leave him open for pikachu to juggle him with uptilts or upairs

Some of pikachu's attacks "auto-cancel" only in certain situations. For example, you're probably NOT going to see short hop bair, dair, or thunderjolt (you might if you're offstage and below, which you should not be). Since a lot of pikachus do repeated full-hopped thunderjolts, full-hopped nairs cancel them and hit pikachu too. Overswarm originally thought it was 50-50 but I might go 55-45 for ROB because I can get quite a few lasers every so often.

Oh, and congrats, Sudai, for becoming a mod

Stealth Raptor said:

the side b of rob will not affect our dsmash O.o if used on us while we use thunder though, it can trap us in our own thunder and do like 30 damage to us

Click to expand...

That's what I meant.
>.<
The thunder. My fault. I was too engrossed in being witty, that I got confused. I fail.

Darth Waffles said:

It IS possible to airdodge through pika's thunder and get to the other side without getting hit, so learning the timing for that is very helpful. If you have the chance, though, reflecting a predictable thunder with side-b is preferred.


Oh, and congrats, Sudai, for becoming a mod

Click to expand...

My main concern is whether or not it works in the air ('reflecting' the thunder)

It works, but only if you're coming towards it/reflecting it on one side. It doesn't work if you're right in the middle, because the "reflecting" part of the move doesn't extend to ROB's head () If you can move so that just the reflecting part, as in the revolving arms, is hitting the thunder, pikachu will take damage and be stunned

Thanks a ton, Dark. That's what i've been doing wrong, lol!

Pikachu vs. R.O.B. is one of my favorite match-ups. Just tossing that out there.

I don't mind this match-up at all.

ZOMG ROB ***** Pika!!!!

Really?
There are too many ROB's at every tournament I go to.

I don't find ROB's projectiles intimidating at all. I could dodge them in my sleep.
His tilts just mean you need to space well and use plenty of thunder jolts. In the air, Pikachu can react much quicker than ROB.
Despite his floatiness, you can pull off short grab/fair combos on ROB. QAC isn't countered too easily.
Edgeguarding him is difficult, but ROB finds it difficult to edgeguard Pikachu as well.
50/50 IMHO.

Can someone explain to me why many say ROB is such a bad match-up for Pikachu?

supposedly, according to raftbuilder at least, Pikachu wins this matchup.

Only Pikachu's i've ever played that were decent were Mister E and K-9. I didn't lose to either of them (friendlies). I don't really have any other comment than that. I wish I knew more about this matchup. Who are pika mains that finish well in tourney?

pikapika and anther both win tourneys, other then that no other pika has won..

I got a serious set in with BadNewsBear in today (not sure where he stands in the Pika rankings) but he barely won the first match, I 3 stocked him the second and then 2 stocked him. I'm calling inexperience johns on the first fight. I don't think that set was nearly enough for me to have a handle on the match-up enough to contribute anything, though.

(That set'll be online eventually, btw)

Sudai said:

I got a serious set in with BadNewsBear in today (not sure where he stands in the Pika rankings) but he barely won the first match, I 3 stocked him the second and then 2 stocked him. I'm calling inexperience johns on the first fight. I don't think that set was nearly enough for me to have a handle on the match-up enough to contribute anything, though.

(That set'll be online eventually, btw)

Click to expand...

Ooh, ooh, tell me you guys haven't already discussed D3!

On a more thread related note, I think this match is 55:45 R.O.B.

Nope, we haven't done D3 yet. You can find links to the ones we've already done on the official matchup discussion sticky

Darth Waffles said:

Nope, we haven't done D3 yet. You can find links to the ones we've already done on the official matchup discussion sticky

Click to expand...

This. Foursaken, I'd have let you known if we were doing D3. ; )

wtf why do you guys do well against pika, I always do horrible

Yeah. Sudai and I got a good set in. Lol, I call inexperience Johns as well. Sudai's R.O.B. is amazing.

I'm editing the videos right now. They should be up by tonight.

Sudai, lets get some more videos for this match up recorded at the fest. Oh yeah, I have your goggles. I'm holding them up for ransom.

Definitely Beah. I think that was the first time either of us fought anyone good from our respective mains. XD

I'd love to be able to get a good understanding of this match-up so we can come in here and shed some light on it. It was a rather interesting fight, imo. Kind of hard to deal with QAC and Jolt approaches. Made me think. :o

Oh yeah, I think it'd be worth mentioning that the 3 stock was -not- due to player skill at all. It was due to how ghey Japes is. Lawl.

definitely need to get a hold of these vids, beah beats me more times than not :embarrass

Here are the videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m7ZC7jSpDI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89BCuaz6Vds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0HcJ55oDq8

EDIT: For some reason, the last video is still processing.

Yeah, I saw the first two last night. For some reason the third still isn't up. I was waiting for all three before I posted them. Might need to reupload it. : (

The third one is up now.

This matchup is not easy. That's all I know. I see it possibly being even or slightly in Pika's favor. *shrug*

See, the thing I find about Pikachu is that he's able to move REALLY fast from a lot of angles, if he knows how to QAC. ROB is a character that doesn't have many moves that are good at covering all angles either, so he really has to be on his toes in this matchup.

On a raw moveset basis, ROB has better attacks. He wins in range, and he has better camping, and he has better KO moves (slightly), but ROB is a fairly sluggish character compared to Pikachu, and Pikachu happens to be good at capitalizing on the fact ROB is not very good at covering multiple angles while attacking.

Also, you can't stay on the ledge because of Thunder Jolts, which sucks (don't get trapped into Thunder!). And while I did say ROB's camping is better, Pikachu can limit it pretty effectively by the fact his Thunder Jolt can be spammed more frequently.

All in all, a good Pikachu from what I've seen will know how to control the flow of the matchup, and this can be extremely frustrating to deal with when ROB's usual strategy of staying away to keep safe is less effective.