thesage
Smash Hero
lolwut? I enjoy playing Lucas and he's my 2nd best character. I'm not going to avoid the fact that he sucks. I didn't do that with Ness in melee lol.
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The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
- Status
LuigiKing
Smash Lord
No, hes just pointing out the sad truth that Lucas just plain sucks. Hes fun, hes attacks are shiny, he has amazing hair... but he just isn't good. Time we accept it and move on
Kami-V
Smash Journeyman
I like this tier list.
MetaMasterMoe
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2009
- Messages
- 8
If more people knew how to play ZSS she would be higher tier.
M15t3R E
Smash Master
True, true. But I believe you could say that about any character.
Kinzer
Mammy
Meta Knight, Mr. E?
I guess Super Saiyan tier wasn't enough, but he will ascend even higher...
I guess Super Saiyan tier wasn't enough, but he will ascend even higher...
Wario needs to be higher. Play a super Campy Wario and you will see what I mean.
What happens when Wario forces YOU to approach him when he gets a lead? Can your character reasonably catch him? This is the better way at looking at his matchups.
What happens when Wario forces YOU to approach him when he gets a lead? Can your character reasonably catch him? This is the better way at looking at his matchups.
Browny
Smash Hater
apply that logic to olimar
:/
he should be top tier imo. idk who would go above or below him, but at least top 6.
:/
he should be top tier imo. idk who would go above or below him, but at least top 6.
Kage Me
Smash Ace
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Olimar should stay where he is. I don't want to main a top tier character... Especially since everyone and their uncle mains the top tier <_<
Phantom7
Banned via Warnings
Eh... Lucas isn't that bad, his upsmash can be punished if it misses, but it's still a great attack. I also find dair and running attack to be annoying.No, hes just pointing out the sad truth that Lucas just plain sucks. Hes fun, hes attacks are shiny, he has amazing hair... but he just isn't good. Time we accept it and move on
You're right about the hair, though, I'll give you that. Everyone likes the Jimmy Neutron hair style lol.
Btw, nice sig.
KillerSOS
Smash Champion
Hey look a Sonic main that said something intelligent!
I completely agree!
Super_Sonic8677
Smash Lord
I also think Oli should be higher. Pikmin are pretty amazing.
Yeah. Not many characters can grab Olimar between his own grabs, and his up-B has transcendent priority, AFAIK.
Olimar has some exploitable weaknesses, being 'easy to gimp' as one of them, as well as his pikmin priority. But you have to choose your moves correctly. Spamming F-smash won't win matches, but being able to bait certain moves using it and punishing hard will :3
He isn't "obviously" a high/top tier character until you play someone who camps well with him.
Though, it kind of makes me wonder how many other characters are treated that way/ have similar "potential".
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
So I heard Olimar is very easily gimped.
rehab
Smash Journeyman
Oh man.
I can't believe I never realized how powerful Wario could be by just floating away with a lead. I did it some guy and didn't even have to try to get him in a bad position. This is hot.
I can't believe I never realized how powerful Wario could be by just floating away with a lead. I did it some guy and didn't even have to try to get him in a bad position. This is hot.
ODIN787
Smash Journeyman
nice tier list, im just happy that link got a bit higher , i hope he improves on the next tier list.
The Trump Card
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 65
Why is Mario still in low tier? Well at least he's at the top of low now.
Yes! We got Edrees on the Wario Express lol, top tier here we come :D
Yeah man, Fiction and I thought about it, I tried it out (he tried it out before me), and it's like "Wow, why haven't we thought of this before?" Like, just about all of his previous harder matchups (Dedede for example) are now in his favor simply because we can force him to approach us.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Couldn't we do this with Sonic then?
Run+spinshot=keepaway
Oh wait you have characters with projectiles such as Falco who can halt the gayness.
Pity.
Run+spinshot=keepaway
Oh wait you have characters with projectiles such as Falco who can halt the gayness.
Pity.
Browny
Smash Hater
how on earth do you force an approach from someone with a projectile, when you dont have one? you cant seriously be suggesting this would be a viable tactic vs falco, olimar or even rob + TL
Look, against those characters we already have an advantage lol. If we can beat characters without camping, then no need to do it.
We beat TL, we beat Falco, we beat ROB, and we beat Olimar. We are using this on Wario's HARDER matchups, where we used to think we always had to approach.
For example, we used to think Dedede annihilated us since he had a CG, Grab release to Kill, etc. Now, however, it's pretty hard for Dedede to win if all we do is get a % lead and force him to approach. Now Dedede is forced to approach with sub par tools, and we aim to either punish him for sucking at approaching or just avoiding it and making him do it again.
Browny
Smash Hater
so then... would this not apply to sonic as well (vs DDD)? no one catch catch a spinshot in the air
how is this different to homing attack stalling beneath a stage? characters without good projectiles can not hit him safely, but he is approachable by the entire cast, the only problem is it puts them at a risky position beneath the stage where they cant chase too far before being at risk of not being able to recover.
eh i dont mean to drag this thread into another sonic discussion, but you make it seem like wario is the only character who can run away once a lead has been established. yes hes good at it, but your reasoning of 'forcing the enemy to make risky approaches' is in essence, the exact same as homing stalling which is banned
how is this different to homing attack stalling beneath a stage? characters without good projectiles can not hit him safely, but he is approachable by the entire cast, the only problem is it puts them at a risky position beneath the stage where they cant chase too far before being at risk of not being able to recover.
eh i dont mean to drag this thread into another sonic discussion, but you make it seem like wario is the only character who can run away once a lead has been established. yes hes good at it, but your reasoning of 'forcing the enemy to make risky approaches' is in essence, the exact same as homing stalling which is banned
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Guess Sonic has an advantage on everyone without a projectile.
GAY TACTICS FTW!
I'm not a Sonic main, but yeah Sonic is super hard to beat if he cancels everything, runs a lot, etc. He can't do it as good as Wario can but he is pretty good at it. One of the problems he has though is that he has trouble approaching usually and regaining the lead if he loses it.
Because what that would be doing is clearly stalling... You are putting yourself under the stage and staying there. What we are doing is forcing them to approach when we get a lead, and we're not physically putting ourselve on a remote place on the map and making you risk dying from trying to stop us. We're staying in relatively close proximity to them, and we aren't aiming to abuse invincibility frames like edge camping. So no, it's not stalling.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Im with DMG.
Wario's moving up. :/ Makes facing him harder though...
Wario's moving up. :/ Makes facing him harder though...
Snowstalker
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2008
- Messages
- 813
YOSHI IS NOT IN THE BOTTOM FIVE.
Yes, Yoshi isn't a very good character. But he's definitely higher than that.
First of all, matchups. Yoshi has among the best matchups in the low tier. He only has slight disadvantages against MK and Snake, and only has real trouble with GaW and Marth. He has slight advantages/disadvantages and neutrals against most other characters, save the fact that he ***** Squirtle and Ganon. He beats almost everyone in F and G, aside from Mario, Link and Ness.
His tourney results suck, but they're not godawful.
As for character abilities and moves, Yoshi is badass. He has a grab release against about half the cast, including MK, Snake, Falco AND Dedede. His shield is terrible though. He has a fast running speed and THE fastest air speed in the game. His kill moves are meh, and he kills best on low celing stages. His up and side specials are only useful against a couple characters (read: Olimar and IC), his down B is okay, but his egg toss is epic win. His air moves are great, especially his bair and uair.
Also, he can wavedash.
I'd put him at the 27th spot.
As for Wario, I'll only accept matchup ratios that have been discussed with opposing boards.
Yes, Yoshi isn't a very good character. But he's definitely higher than that.
First of all, matchups. Yoshi has among the best matchups in the low tier. He only has slight disadvantages against MK and Snake, and only has real trouble with GaW and Marth. He has slight advantages/disadvantages and neutrals against most other characters, save the fact that he ***** Squirtle and Ganon. He beats almost everyone in F and G, aside from Mario, Link and Ness.
His tourney results suck, but they're not godawful.
As for character abilities and moves, Yoshi is badass. He has a grab release against about half the cast, including MK, Snake, Falco AND Dedede. His shield is terrible though. He has a fast running speed and THE fastest air speed in the game. His kill moves are meh, and he kills best on low celing stages. His up and side specials are only useful against a couple characters (read: Olimar and IC), his down B is okay, but his egg toss is epic win. His air moves are great, especially his bair and uair.
Also, he can wavedash.
I'd put him at the 27th spot.
As for Wario, I'll only accept matchup ratios that have been discussed with opposing boards.
Browny
Smash Hater
have you ever considered exactly WHY his tourney results are not great? Its not a case of popularity, you can see in the rankings list that Yoshi's place more often than most characters ranked 26 and lower. this indicates he is placing lowly, or at tournaments with low entrants/entry fee. Maybe they arent so great because when it comes to real tourney situations vs top tier characters, his theorised matchups dont always end up as planned. just because you say he goes even with DDD, doesnt mean he will.
you shouldnt consider tier placing as a measure of what matchup charts say, all that matters is how the character actually performs. that will give the true indication of a matchup
you shouldnt consider tier placing as a measure of what matchup charts say, all that matters is how the character actually performs. that will give the true indication of a matchup
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
This.
**** he's better than Ness and Mario. (and freakin Lucas)
SBR needs ot drop Lucas down and move him up.
I mean, WHY DO THEY LIKE HIM!
EX: Some user: Lucas rocks.
SBR: Lucas, is garbage, stop being a fanboy.
But he's so... high, and none of the SBR explained why?
Judge Judy
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,638
Lucas likes to play spammy and campy...unfortunately he's not very good at either...
That reminds me, we need to go over his matchups again. With most boards.
This is gonna take awhile lol D:
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Napilopez
Smash Lord
I agree with the Yoshi Main for the most part. Yoshi has winnable matchups all around. Don't know whats going on with tourney placings and such though.
^
Sonic mains have a natural, instinctual fear of Wario.
only through hard mental
;p
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@ Snowstalker/any other low tier main:
As SBR members mentioned either here in this thread or in other places, if you're going to be a tier crusader, then the whole point of the "then go to tournaments!" really isn't to win the tournaments, though that's always a plus.
It's to make a show of yourself there.
Play against as many people as possible in friendlies. Expose them to how your character is played. Make an impression on them that convinces them of your argument. Leave such an impression that people leave you shoutouts after the tourney, and when people make false assumptions about your character, they're the ones arguing for your side, saying "actually, [this person] is kind of right, [this character] is actually tourney viable/doesn't get destroyed that way/is more of a threat than I thought it would be". Almost everyone I've played IRL had, after their first time watching me play (or even during), some sort of reaction where they realized that they had severely underestimated the capabilities of my character. Just go to the FS5 and look at the sheer amount of pages of shoutouts that people leave to Espy to get an idea of what happens lol.
If you can play against some high-caliber player and change their mind, then you essentially convert some supporters to your side of the argument.
And if you can play against an SBR member, then it's like, +5 bonus points lol.
But of course, that's only if you give them trouble.
If you're just run-of-the-mill or slightly-above-average, you won't really be helping your case ;3
RyanPF
Smash Journeyman
The only trouble with that is that Yoshi doesn't play himself. By that I mean that the player's skill affects the outcome more than the character used, and therefore, you can't base tier lists on results. If players like NinjaLink and Ally dropped their current characters and practiced up Yoshi, you can be sure that he would get better results than he does now, simply because they are amazing players.
D
Deleted member
Guest
What? are you kidding?
There are 4-6 yoshi mains that place, its very much popularity.
Maybe its just that not very many good people play yoshi and place high in big tournaments.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
The SBR determines tier places through collecting each member's idea of the list, and averaging the points given by each member. It's not done through some discussive collaboration which would generate reasons for Why X is in _ tier or anything like that. It's just an average of each member's view on the list.
Also, a lot of ppl seem to have the idea of Character X doesn't belong in Spot Z, they should be in Spot Y. Well, that's all good and all, until you realize that would change the positions of every character between Spots Y and Z. You would need justification for X being better/ worse than every character between Y and Z.
Saying Character X should be higher/lower because he/she has/doesn't have _______ doesn't mean anything. You'd need to show Character X is higher/lower than other characters. Tier lists are relative.
Also, a lot of ppl seem to have the idea of Character X doesn't belong in Spot Z, they should be in Spot Y. Well, that's all good and all, until you realize that would change the positions of every character between Spots Y and Z. You would need justification for X being better/ worse than every character between Y and Z.
Saying Character X should be higher/lower because he/she has/doesn't have _______ doesn't mean anything. You'd need to show Character X is higher/lower than other characters. Tier lists are relative.
RyanPF
Smash Journeyman
This is a very good point. It seems like just about everyone expected his main to rise a few places, which is impossible.
D
Deleted member
Guest
The problem occurs when people(including myself), believe that many of the characters surrounding the character we are arguing for are misplaced. For example, i think pokemon trainer is better than yoshi, but yoshi should still be higher.
Making it a pain, and in the end, we would basically be making a whole tier list.]
However, its true that everyone cant move up, and tier lists are relative.
Making it a pain, and in the end, we would basically be making a whole tier list.]
However, its true that everyone cant move up, and tier lists are relative.
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