R.O.B. Match-Up Discussion Week #14: CLEAN UP!!!

Sudai · Feb 18, 2009

Clean up, clean up,
Everybody everywhere
Clean up, clean up,
Everybody do your share~

Ok, so aside from horrid childhood memories, this thread is about cleaning up our match-up discussions. We've done 14 characters so far..only 5-7 have ratios and NONE have a match-up description.

I want -everyone- to put in their votes for the match-up numbers of all characters we've done so far. Feel free to copy-paste mine for easyness.

After, if you feel you're qualified to write a match-up description for any of the characters, feel free to do so and you will be credited in the Match-up Directory.

Characters
Diddy: 45-55
Donkey Kong: 50-50
Falco: 40-60
Game and Watch: 45-55
King Dedede: 45-55
Kirby: 45-55
Lucario: 55-45
Mario: 40-60
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 30-70
Pikachu: 45-55
Zelda: 50-50
Wario: 50-50

JCaesar · Feb 18, 2009

My thoughts/votes:

Characters
Diddy: 45-55
Donkey Kong: 55-45
Falco: 40-60
Game and Watch: 45-55
King Dedede: 40-60
Kirby: 50-50
Lucario: 60-40
Mario: 50-50
Marth: 45-55
Metaknight: 30-70
Pikachu: 45-55
Zelda: 45-55
Wario: 60-40

HugS™ · Feb 18, 2009

Diddy: Not Sure
Donkey Kong: Not Sure
Falco: 45 - 55
Game and Watch: 40 -60
King Dedede: 45-55
Kirby: 60 - 40
Lucario: 60-40
Mario: 50-50
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 20-80
Pikachu: Not sure
Zelda: 60 - 40
Wario: 35 - 65

GwJ · Feb 18, 2009

Characters
Diddy: 40-60
Donkey Kong: 50-50
Falco: 40-60
Game and Watch: 40-60
King Dedede: 40-60
Kirby: 50-50
Lucario: 55-45
Mario: 40-60
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 35-65
Pikachu: 45-55
Zelda: 45-55
Wario: 60-40

Nintendevil · Feb 18, 2009

Diddy: 45-55 ROB
Donkey Kong: 40-60 ROB
Falco: 55-45 Falco
Game and Watch: ****-35 Gaw
King Dedede: 45-55 ROB
Kirby: 50-50
Lucario: 55-45 Lucario
Mario: 40-60 Mario
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 30-70 Metaknight
Pikachu: 45-55 Pika
Zelda: 50-50
Wario: 60-40 ROB

Mister Eric · Feb 18, 2009

R.O.B.-Opponent

Diddy: 45-55
Donkey Kong: 50-50
Falco: 45-55
Game and Watch: 45-55
King Dedede: 45-55
Kirby: 45-55
Lucario: 50-50
Mario: 45-55
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 40-60
Pikachu: 45-55
Zelda: 50-50
Wario: 50-50

Cubone · Feb 18, 2009

Diddy: 45-55
Donkey Kong: 55-45
Falco: 40-60
Game and Watch: 45-55
King Dedede: 45-55
Kirby: 45-55
Lucario: 55-45
Mario: 40-60
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 30-70
Pikachu: 50-50 (They say its in our strongly in our favor?)
Zelda: 50-50
Wario: 50-50

jjvirus · Feb 18, 2009

Characters
Diddy: 40-60 (ROB)
Donkey Kong: 50-50
Falco: 50-50
Game and Watch: 30-70 (GnW)
King Dedede: 50-50
Kirby: 45-55 (Kirby)
Lucario: 55-45 (ROB)
Mario: 40-60 (Mario)
Marth: 49-51 (Marth)
Metaknight: 30-70 (Mk)
Pikachu: 60-40 (ROB)
Zelda: 50-50
Wario: 50-50

Syde7 · Feb 18, 2009

(Displayed as Character: ROB/Opponent)

Diddy: 45-55
Donkey Kong: 55-45
Falco: 40-60
Game and Watch: 40-60
King Dedede: 45-55
Kirby: 45-55
Lucario: 55-45
Mario: 40-60
Marth: 55-45
Metaknight: 30-70
Pikachu: 45-55
Zelda: 55-45
Wario: 50-50

JCaesar · Feb 18, 2009

Guys, seriously, just make the first number ROB and the second number the opponent. This:

Nintendevil said:
Donkey Kong: 40-60 ROB
. . .
Mario: 40-60 Mario
. . .
Wario: 60-40 ROB

does not make any ****ing sense.

Does anyone want to write up some summaries, or maybe make a template for the summaries to follow?

Nintendevil · Feb 18, 2009

Um lol whoops.
And I think everyone is too lazy to think about writing.

Mr.E · Feb 18, 2009

I thought we largely agreed Diddy was in our favor? /boggle

Characters
Diddy: 60-40
Donkey Kong: *shrug*
Falco: 50-50
Game and Watch: 35-65
King Dedede: 45-55
Kirby: 50-50
Lucario: 55-45
Mario: 50-50
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 30-70
Pikachu: 50-50
Zelda: 55-45
Wario: 60-40

Totally not being the summary *****, especially since my opinions frequently clash with others anyway. :/

Jamnt0ast · Feb 18, 2009

Characters
Diddy: 50-50
Donkey Kong: 55-45
Falco: 40-60
Game and Watch: 35-65
King Dedede: 40-60
Kirby: 50-50
Lucario: 55-45
Mario: 60-40
Marth: 45-55
Metaknight: 40-60
Pikachu: 45-55
Zelda: 50-50
Wario: 50-50

toasty · Feb 18, 2009

Mr.E said:
I thought we largely agreed Diddy was in our favor? /boggle

wtfff???

Mr.E said:
especially since my opinions frequently clash with others anyway. :/

LOL oh, right.

Diddy: not sure
Donkey Kong: even
Falco: 40-60
Game and Watch: not sure
King Dedede: ugh
Kirby: 45-55
Lucario: 45-55 [though, only good one I've played is Azen LOL]
Mario: 45-55 [ugh, Boss

]
Marth: 45-55
Metaknight: 20-80
Pikachu: not sure
Zelda: not sure
Wario: not sure

yeah I'm not much of a help, I've been outta the scene for too long to have accurate measurements on most of these matchups anymore

Mr.E · Feb 18, 2009

From the Diddy topic:

Count said:
Diddy main coming to 'help out'.

I think you guys have a 60-40 advantage.

stingers135 said:
55-45 ROB imo, because Diddy can't really do much when being camped. This is one of those times you'd want to go to BF instead of FD, Diddy players.

Seppoku said:
I've done this match about 10x a week since the release of the game... ROB has the advantage by 60-40...

ChromePirate said:
Fairly even to ROB's advantage.

JCaesar007 said:
Even though I still have trouble, I'd agree with 60/40 ROB. It's started going a lot better for me recently now that I've started to figure the matchup out (and stopped trying to use his bananas against him )

escajehubus said:
Diddy vs ROB is 60/40 R.O.B. He gimps WAYY TOO EASY. END OF STORY.

GwJumpman said:
I just find it 60/40 ROB.

Jamnt0ast said:
I would put ROB vs Diddy neutral at 45/55 ROB

I think Sudai is basically the only person in that topic, Diddy -or- ROB main, that said anything contrary to ROB having the advantage. Even JCaez said 60:40 ROB there... and is now saying 45:55 in Diddy's favor a month later? I'm wondering how many people here just didn't bother to change the numbers they c/ped from Sudai's template, for whatever reason.

Nefarious B · Feb 18, 2009

Characters
Diddy: 55-45
Donkey Kong: 60-40
Falco: 45-55
Game and Watch: 30-70
King Dedede: 50-50
Kirby: 45-55
Lucario: 55-45
Mario: 45-55
Marth: 55-45
Metaknight: 35-65
Pikachu: 45-55
Zelda: 55-45
Wario: 50-50

Darth Waffles · Feb 18, 2009

I've got significant experience in this matchup.

You need to camp the heck out of Barney. With his abysmally poor aerial mobility and his lack of projectiles, hardcore camping will keep him grounded. That being said, he has a surprisingly fast spot-dodge-downsmash, even faster than ROB's. It's almost like Yoshi's but about 20 times bigger and with more emphasis on the purple. Watch out for Baby Bop(?) and BJ (or is it DJ?) desynching... their chain-lullabies have broken knockback and they can rack up serious damage offstage.

Haha at Mr. E's post. Too true, lol, especially since the quotes actually DO contradict original opinions.

Meh, I'll post my numbers tomorrow or Friday at the latest. Good thing I don't have too many ratios on record from before =)

CJTHeroofTime · Feb 19, 2009

Character: (ROBs %)-(Character's %)
Diddy: Extremely limited experience
Donkey Kong: 50-50
Falco: 39-60
Game and Watch: 45-55
King Dedede: 40-60
Kirby: 50-50
Lucario: 50-50
Mario: 45-55
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 30-70
Pikachu: No experience
Zelda: 45-55
Wario: 55-45

A2ZOMG · Feb 19, 2009

Characters
Diddy: Not sure
Donkey Kong: 6/4
Falco: 55/45
Game and Watch: 35/65
King Dedede: 5/5
Kirby: 45/55
Lucario: Not sure
Mario: 5/5
Marth: Not sure
Metaknight: 4/6
Pikachu: Not sure
Zelda: Not sure
Wario: Not sure

Reasons:

Vs DK: This isn't an easy matchup by any means. However you have all the tools to camp and shut down DK if you're smart. DK doesn't have ANY safe way to approach, and scoring a KO on him isn't as hard as your would suspect, when his recovery is easily edgeguarded.

Vs Falco: Falco's CGing doesn't work well on ROB. His laser camping is gay, and that's about it. ROB should actually be KOing Falco earlier than Falco can KO ROB due to huge weight differences, and Falco's limited recovery hurts him in this matchup.

Vs G&W: G&W is very difficult to hit. He is much more disjointed than ROB, so throwing out an attack on him usually gets you owned. If he knows how to space, he can't be punished out of shield very easily, and ROB doesn't like taking repeated abuse on his already horrible shield. ROB is an easy target for F-airs. He can camp G&W if the G&W makes some dumb mistakes, making the matchup not completely a blowout in G&W's favor, but otherwise, G&W pretty easily runs over ROB with shield pressure, juggling, and edgeguarding. Getting KOed out of your air dodge at 80% by an Up-smash is the worst feeling ever too. =(

Vs Mario: I personally don't think this is in Mario's favor. Getting inside ROB's range and past his camping is a chore, enough of a chore to counteract Mario's combos on ROB. ROB DOES outcamp Mario if he's smart about it. Mario however KOs earlier.

Vs Metaknight: Unlike G&W, there is nothing stopping you from camping Metaknight until he gets inside. ROB has very good answers to the Tornado with his camping and F-smash, allowing you to get some cheap hits on a Metaknight that gets too Whornado happy. Metaknight's D-tilt is more disjointed than ROB's, but has less range, allowing you to trade hits with his best poke, which is pretty awesome actually. Poking at him with F-tilt is also fun. The main problem is easily KOing him.

Vorguen · Feb 19, 2009

I'm going to post the ones I am educated enough to actually vote on:

Falco: 40-60
Game and Watch: 40-60 (is it just me who hates this fight that much?)
King Dedede: 45-55
Mario: 45-55
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 35-65
Pikachu: 45-55
Zelda: 45-55

JCaesar · Feb 19, 2009

Mr.E said:
From the Diddy topic:

I think Sudai is basically the only person in that topic, Diddy -or- ROB main, that said anything contrary to ROB having the advantage. Even JCaez said 60:40 ROB there... and is now saying 45:55 in Diddy's favor a month later? I'm wondering how many people here just didn't bother to change the numbers they c/ped from Sudai's template, for whatever reason.

Yeah I've changed my opinion on a lot of these matchups recently. For the Diddy one, I realized I was basing a lot of my matchup on a ****ty Diddy player, and playing some better ones changed my opinion. I don't get to play Diddy that often so my experience is pretty limited. Maybe I should have left it at 50:50 though.

A2ZOMG said:
Characters
Diddy: Not sure
Donkey Kong: 6/4
Falco: 55/45
Game and Watch: 35/65
King Dedede: 5/5
Kirby: 45/55
Lucario: Not sure
Mario: 5/5
Marth: Not sure
Metaknight: 4/6
Pikachu: Not sure
Zelda: Not sure
Wario: Not sure

Reasons:

Vs DK: This isn't an easy matchup by any means. However you have all the tools to camp and shut down DK if you're smart. DK doesn't have ANY safe way to approach, and scoring a KO on him isn't as hard as your would suspect, when his recovery is easily edgeguarded.

Vs Falco: Falco's CGing doesn't work well on ROB. His laser camping is gay, and that's about it. ROB should actually be KOing Falco earlier than Falco can KO ROB due to huge weight differences, and Falco's limited recovery hurts him in this matchup.

Vs G&W: G&W is very difficult to hit. He is much more disjointed than ROB, so throwing out an attack on him usually gets you owned. If he knows how to space, he can't be punished out of shield very easily, and ROB doesn't like taking repeated abuse on his already horrible shield. ROB is an easy target for F-airs. He can camp G&W if the G&W makes some dumb mistakes, making the matchup not completely a blowout in G&W's favor, but otherwise, G&W pretty easily runs over ROB with shield pressure, juggling, and edgeguarding. Getting KOed out of your air dodge at 80% by an Up-smash is the worst feeling ever too. =(

Vs Mario: I personally don't think this is in Mario's favor. Getting inside ROB's range and past his camping is a chore, enough of a chore to counteract Mario's combos on ROB. ROB DOES outcamp Mario if he's smart about it. Mario however KOs earlier.

Vs Metaknight: Unlike G&W, there is nothing stopping you from camping Metaknight until he gets inside. ROB has very good answers to the Tornado with his camping and F-smash, allowing you to get some cheap hits on a Metaknight that gets too Whornado happy. Metaknight's D-tilt is more disjointed than ROB's, but has less range, allowing you to trade hits with his best poke, which is pretty awesome actually. Poking at him with F-tilt is also fun. The main problem is easily KOing him.

I want to dispute a lot of this, but this isn't the right thread so I'll let it go.

Ruse · Feb 19, 2009

Diddy: 60-40
Donkey Kong: 50-50
Falco: 40-60
Game and Watch: 40-60
King Dedede: 30-70

I'm waiting for the flaming.

Kirby: 45-55
Lucario: no experience
Mario: 40-60
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 35-65
Pikachu: no experience
Zelda: 45-55
Wario: 50-50

ZOM~B · Feb 24, 2009

Falco: 50-50
Lucario: 50-50
Marth: 50-50
D3: 45-55
MK: 30-70
Mario: 50-50

These are the ones I have experience with.

I played the highest placing COT4 falco, and I didn't think the matchup was in his favor. Just comes down to having to predict his options and not being too hasty about getting laser->upsmashed.

Same Falco plays a really good Mario. Not as good as Boss, but I beat him in the set we played... I think this is even.

I play a Lucario on almost a daily basis. We go about even. I hate the ledge in this game. Same player plays Marth... and I win that more often than not when I'm not so dumb as to try to recovering low.

I just hate the D3 matchup. It's probably even, but there's too many good stages for D3 in this matchup (Castle Siege, Delfino, Pokemon Stadium 1) vs not really the same on ROB's side.

And ugh MK. I don't think I need to say much about that.

The rest I can't comment on since I haven't played any really good people in that matchup... I feel GnW is even though if you take advantage of bucket lag on the first and second lasers... he's totally campable IMO.

If you disagree I'd love to hear why, shoot me a PM.

JCaesar · Feb 24, 2009

ZOM~B said:
I just hate the D3 matchup. It's probably even, but there's too many good stages for D3 in this matchup (Castle Siege, Delfino, Pokemon Stadium 1) vs not really the same on ROB's side.

Jungle Japes, Norfair, and Frigate Orpheon all swing the matchup solidly in ROB's favor. DDD can be stage-counterpicked pretty hard, unlike G&W and MK.

And all those good DDD stages you listed aren't really that bad. There are very dangerous parts but you can just run away during those parts. Honestly I wouldn't mind a DDD CPing me to Delfino. I think we talked about this in the DDD matchup thread.

CJTHeroofTime · Feb 25, 2009

JCaesar007 said:
Jungle Japes, Norfair, and Frigate Orpheon all swing the matchup solidly in ROB's favor.

Lol, apparently no one on Long Island likes any of these stages anymore... Frigate's the only one left, but that is solved quickly with a single ban.

Cubone · Feb 26, 2009

CJTHeroofTime said:
Lol, apparently no one on Long Island likes any of these stages anymore... Frigate's the only one left, but that is solved quickly with a single ban.

That must be a small list for CP's then.

phi1ny3 · Feb 26, 2009

Diddy: 45-55 (ROB)
Donkey Kong: 50-50
Falco: 45-55 (Falco)
Game and Watch: 40-60 (Gay Men Watch's)
King Dedede: 45-55 (D3)
Kirby: 45-55 (kirby)
Lucario: 50-50
Mario: 35-65 (ROB)
Marth: 50-50
Metaknight: 30-70 (MK)
Pikachu: 45-55 (Pika)
Zelda: 45:55 (ROB)
Wario: 45-55 (wario)

CJTHeroofTime · Feb 27, 2009

Moot said:
That must be a small list for CP's then.

It gets smaller everyday...

Ravener · Mar 3, 2009

My Votes
Diddy: 45-55
Donkey Kong: 45-55
Falco: 50-50
Game and Watch: 45-55
King DDD: 40-60
Kirby: 50-50
Lucario: 55-45
Mario: 45-50
Marth: 50-50
MetaKnight: 30-70
Pikachu: 45-55
Zelda: 55-45
Wario: 55-45

Darth Waffles · Mar 6, 2009

As of now, done

So... we need some matchup descriptions, but I'm guessing that nobody wants to write them because of our varied opinions and possibly getting flamed for writing a matchup description that not everybody agrees on, such as on the effectiveness of camping, approaching, etc. For the sake of getting numbers and giving the illusion that we can agree on a matchup number, here are the averages of what we have so far. This includes everyone's opinions regardless of how much they post here or are well-known. For the most part, the numbers aren't THAT spread out to the point that all of the "experts" have drastically different numbers than everyone else, so I just added them in. Don't moan about them if you don't agree with the average number. Sorry =\

Character = (total number in our favor)/(number of people with opinions) = ROB's number. All ratios must add up to 99 so the second number is 99 minus the first number

ex. Diddy = total of 760/15 = 50.0 : 49.0, ROB's favor (lol).

Diddy = total of 700/14 = 50.0 : 49.0, ROB's favor (lol)
DK = total of 750/14 = 53.6 : 45.4, ROB's favor
Falco = total of 784/17 = 46.1 : 52.9, FALCO's favor
G&W = total of 710/18 = 39.4 : 59.6, G&W's favor
D3 = total of 840/19 = 44.2 : 54.8, D3's favor
Kirby = total of 860/18 = 47.8 : 51.2, KIRBY's favor
Lucario = total of 915/17 = 53.8 : 45.2, ROB's favor
Mario = total of 880/20 = 44.0 : 55.0, MARIO's favor
Marth = total of 934/19 = 49.2 : 49.8, MARTH's favor
MK = total of 630/20 = 31.5 : 67.5, METAKNIGHT's favor
Pikachu = total of 655/14 = 46.8 : 52.2, PIKACHU's favor
Zelda = total of 850/17 = 50.0 : 49.0, ROB's favor (lol)
Wario = total of 830/16 = 51.9 : 47.1, ROB's favor

Notes:

Diddy: didn't use the older quoted ones at the bottom of the 1st page

Mario: Ravener's ratio was 45-50 so I counted it as 45

Marth: Almost everybody said 50-50 except for a few 45-55s

Pikachu: Yikes, I didn't think this many of you would skip this one. Personally, I think it's 50-49, maybe even up to 55-44. It would be even but since the ratios add to 99, ROB wins on tiebreaks =). I've played ROB vs Pikachu and it's never given me the kind of annoyance that would deserve a ratio in pika's favor. Anyone credible who has played someone like Anther would be best though

Wario: The most varied ratios from 35:65 to 60:40. It seemed like the people who traveled more had more eccentric ratios (except for Sudai)

Sudai · Mar 6, 2009

Thanks Waffles, I was actually planning to do just that and then look back and compare them to the numbers given by people that definitely know what they're talking about on the subject (such as people who play against Boss on a frequent basis and their numbers for Mario, ect) you just saved me a bunch of time. : )

BigDaddy4 · Mar 29, 2009

Someone please explain why you guys think the Wario matchup is like 45:55, 50:50, 55:45 when i think Wario ***** ROB??

Sudai · Mar 29, 2009

You're doing it wrong.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207041

Vorguen · Mar 29, 2009

Why are you guys saying that ROB wins at ties?

O.o

ROB inside joke?

Mr.E · Mar 30, 2009

ROB wins all ties, except against DK. That ape is just too fashionable.

GwJ · Mar 30, 2009

Well, he is the leader of the bunch.

Kage Me · Mar 30, 2009

You know him well.

HugS™ · Mar 30, 2009

Wario has about a 55-45 advantage on ROB IMO

My ratio was a bit too extreme until I figured out some strategies in the match up. However, it is still in Wario's favor. I read the old thread where people argued that Wario had to approach, but that's only half true.

Wario is nearly untouchable vs character's like ROB if they air camp properly on stages with a good platform set up. And why must you approach? Because while you are sitting there missing your laser's and gyro's, he's charging his waft for an easy gimp kill later on.

There's this paradox in the match up where things don't go normally. I play against Fiction on a regular basis, and when I gain a significant lead on a stock, where he's on his last stock at 120+% and I'm at about 60%, you'd think he'd begin approaching me as the clock winds down. But he doesn't. Instead, he runs away and camps me until he is able to charge his waft to a gimping level.

Once he has it charged, all he has to do is get me off the stage. And it's a task more easily done with his Waft charged because he knows that I'M the one who has to worry about the gimp. I have to choose my moves more carefully than he does. The moment anything significantly laggy hits his shield, it's game over, the moment I need to up B to return, it's game over. All this is going on while he deliberately tries to bait me into making a mistake. It's either make a mistake and die, or keep taking damage.

So yeah, ROB needs to approach more than Wario does during mid to high percentages solely because of his Waft.

Mr.E · Mar 31, 2009

But then you can just return from below stage level and he can't really reach you because the Waft goes up? It's not easy to land considering it has basically no horizontal range, he can't punish with it OoS, and it has zip for priority (so NAir just knocks him out of it if he plows into ROB as you start the attack).

Considering ROB flat-out beats Wario away with his aerials if Wario tries to contest for space below the stage (trying to get below ROB during recovery) there shouldn't be any blatantly obvious ways for Wario to land a Waft. The fully charged Waft isn't even that dangerous anyway, it doesn't kill until over 100%, it's the half-charged Waft that kills at 70 that you really want to avoid.

HugS™ · Mar 31, 2009

Mr.E said:
But then you can just return from below stage level and he can't really reach you because the Waft goes up? It's not easy to land considering it has basically no horizontal range, he can't punish with it OoS, and it has zip for priority (so NAir just knocks him out of it if he plows into ROB as you start the attack).

Considering ROB flat-out beats Wario away with his aerials if Wario tries to contest for space below the stage (trying to get below ROB during recovery) there shouldn't be any blatantly obvious ways for Wario to land a Waft. The fully charged Waft isn't even that dangerous anyway, it doesn't kill until over 100%, it's the half-charged Waft that kills at 70 that you really want to avoid.

I thought it was implied that I meant the half charged Waft, since I said "charged until gimping level". The fully charged waft isnt that much to worry about, but the half charged waft pretty much negates everything you just said, and reinforces my previous statements. But just to clarify, I'll address your points.

You can't really return from below stage level that easily. In fact, it's probably your worst option. Wario's semi charged waft has great horizontal range, so he can simply use his amazing aerial mobility to place himself to the left or right of your uair. A nair wouldn't start up fast enough vs a good wario. Let's not forget that you can't airdodge out of an Up B without doing an attack. Your best bet is to save your jump so that you can airdodge out of that, or recover on the opposite side of the stage.

Also, a few aerials combo into wafts, so there's also that.

R.O.B. Match-Up Discussion Week #14: CLEAN UP!!!

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