Ness Matchup

Ness



General Discussion

Soon to Come

Pika's Advantages

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Pika's Disadvantages

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Strategy for Winning

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Helpful Video's

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Overall Matchup

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I play pikachu occasionally against a person who mains Ness

Ness's like to abuse their disjointed Fair, Pikachu doesn't have anything that goes through it so just shield and hope they don't space it well so you can get a grab after.
Ness's spike is really strong but it's also really telegraphed, Pika's Uair is really good vs Ness so try to get him above you and then abuse his weak spot.
Don't be predictable with thunder, he will absorb.
thunderjolt/shock/ w/e it's named should not be used when ness is on stage, he will absorb it easily. It can be used when ness is off-stage though, try to use it to eat Ness's 2nd jump, then depending on how close you are either go for the gimp or edge-hog so ness has to UpB onto the stage then you get a free hit.

If you do mistime the gimp vs UpB and get hit, just DI into the stage and tech, it's one of the most obvious techs there are. Also, getting hit by Ness's UpB shortens his flight distance substantially so it may cause him to die anyways lol.

Hm...i haven't played a ness in forever...forgive me if my information i will post is outdated

PK Fire:

PK Fire is one of ness's staple moves, but it is very predictable and easy to shield. You shouldn't get hit by it often. When you do get hit by it, Tap + Smash DI up and you should be able to be high enough so he won't be able to grab you. The only other use is for edgeguarding. Ness will do PK Fire to dair, which is a ridiculously powerful spike. However, pikachu should never be hit like that since his recovery is so versatile.

PSI Magnet:

This is why pikachu's seem to think this matchup is actually difficult. Ness can absorb both thunder and T-jolt. However, pikachu beats him in the close range fight, so we should still have no trouble. At high %s you can shoot a T-jolt to bait the magnet, then run and u-smash him for the kill. Now since people momentum cancel, it will be MUCH easier to hit with thunder since he will still be in the attack. You have to limit your T-jolt and thunder usage, so you can't really camp ness as effectively as other characters. However, ness doesn't really have much to deal with anything you can do, so its still not difficult IMO.

Killing:

The main way ness will be killing you is with his B-throw. IF you are at the edge, this throw will kill you at 90%. From across the level, maybe 115%. So, when you are at high %s, try to go to the platforms. Ness's best killing aerial is his bair, and it is quite powerful. It will probably kill pikachu at about 125 give or take 10%. Pikachu can still kill ness quite easily with U-smash and nair. Since Ness can absorb thunder, u-tilt > thunder comboes are less reliable. This being said, if the ness is high in the air, you can bait a magnet and hit him with a nair or uair and get him off of the cliff, which leads to

Edgeguarding:

Ness's recovery is pretty bad. His up-b is really easy to gimp. If he is low and doesn't have his double jump, jump into him. If he up-Bs, try to intercept the actual thunder so he can't even get the boost. If worst comes to worst, go in his path and airdodge. If you are close enough, Ness's path will shorten even though you technically didn't get hit. If you get hit by PKT2, you are in a for a world of hurt. I have died from this attack at 30% (going across the entire stage, not just the short blast zone). This is ness's strongest attack by far.
Pikachu's recovery, adversely, is barely effected by ness. The only thing he can really do is send a PK Thunder out and try to hit you, but it won't disrupt you too much. Make sure you don't get in a pattern of recovering, because then he will hit with PK Fire to Dair, which will kill you at basically any %. You should be pretty safe off the edge against ness.

On the ground:

Pikachu has a better ground game than ness. Ness best spacing tool is his F-tilt. It has decent range, but our D-tilt has more range, so you can always outrange him. Ness will probably try to grab you at low %s and do D-throw > fair > DJ Fair (if you DI bad) for a good 20-25%. Pikachu cannot CG ness, with Forward or buffered down. So, the best thing you can do is F-throw > U-smash at low %s. Grabs will always be good to get ness of the cliff and edgeguard him. Pikachu's speed on the ground vastly beats Ness's. Pikachu has more range, and beats him in general.

Air:

I would say that Ness and Pikachu are even in the air. Pikachu has the speed advantage, but ness has more range with his disjointed fair, and godly bair. Ness's nair i believe comes out in 3-5 frames, 1 frame faster t0 1 frame slower than pikachu's nair, and is a good GTFO move. This means he will use it to try to break out of your comboes. However, with our overall speed, Ness should normally be on the defensive in the air. Uair comboes own ness pretty hard for a few reasons. When ness DJs, he dips down and it takes him a while to actually start moving up, which makes him unable to jump out of our comboes. However, he can maybe jump and AD really quick, which looks really weird btw. Pikachu can always follow him, but don't be too over aggressive, cuz ness can knock you away and do a bit of damage with his aerials and grabs.

Uh...thats about it...idk if i'm right or not since i haven't played a ness offline in months.

Ness's will use PKT1 (tailwhip) more than pkfire to interrupt your recovery.

Ness's bair isn't that great, it's slow. Uair is also a good kill move for him.

I never knew AD through PKT2 shortened it. good to know

I think it does, not exactly sure.

It's probably the same as AD through Snake's usmash.

ESAM said:

At high %s you can shoot a T-jolt to bait the magnet, then run and u-smash him for the kill.

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Ness, Lucas, Fox and Wolf can all cancel their reflectors/magnets as soon as they reflect/absorb a projectile by rolling or jumping as soon as the projectile hits. Meaning that Ness won't have lag from the absorption.

Quick aerials mean nothing to disjointed and ranged attacks. Tjolt is your best friend in this matchup, use it wisely.

tjolt is slow and telegraphed and therfore easily absorbed, it also has a large amount of cooldown lag on pikachu which makes following it up impossible in most situations. I don't advise using tjolt much at all, last time I played my friend I used it twice on stage, one of those times it got absorbed. (the other one only hit because he was in the middle of using an attack)

ESAM said:

Hm...i haven't played a ness in forever...forgive me if my information i will post is outdated

PK Fire:

PK Fire is one of ness's staple moves, but it is very predictable and easy to shield. You shouldn't get hit by it often. When you do get hit by it, Tap + Smash DI up and you should be able to be high enough so he won't be able to grab you. The only other use is for edgeguarding. Ness will do PK Fire to dair, which is a ridiculously powerful spike. However, pikachu should never be hit like that since his recovery is so versatile.

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If PKF is predictable, then they're using it waaay too often. Another thing is that you can DI out of PKF all you want. Ness won't always grab their opponent when they're in PKF. By the way, most Ness mains don't edgeguard with PKF. They've got PKT and PKFl, or they can just go out and nair or fair and even attempt to pull off a dair. There are a few more options, but that's for the most part.

ESAM said:

PSI Magnet:

This is why pikachu's seem to think this matchup is actually difficult. Ness can absorb both thunder and T-jolt. However, pikachu beats him in the close range fight, so we should still have no trouble. At high %s you can shoot a T-jolt to bait the magnet, then run and u-smash him for the kill. Now since people momentum cancel, it will be MUCH easier to hit with thunder since he will still be in the attack. You have to limit your T-jolt and thunder usage, so you can't really camp ness as effectively as other characters. However, ness doesn't really have much to deal with anything you can do, so its still not difficult IMO.

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What? For the most part, some Ness mains don't bother using PSIM against Pikachu's Thunder Jolt because they can just jump it. And the chance of them ever using their PSIM is at a distance which by the time Thunder Jolt hit his PSIM, he can just lag cancel out of it. The same thing applies with Pikachu's Thunder.

ESAM said:

Killing:

The main way ness will be killing you is with his B-throw. IF you are at the edge, this throw will kill you at 90%. From across the level, maybe 115%. So, when you are at high %s, try to go to the platforms. Ness's best killing aerial is his bair, and it is quite powerful. It will probably kill pikachu at about 125 give or take 10%. Pikachu can still kill ness quite easily with U-smash and nair. Since Ness can absorb thunder, u-tilt > thunder comboes are less reliable. This being said, if the ness is high in the air, you can bait a magnet and hit him with a nair or uair and get him off of the cliff, which leads to

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Not really. As a Ness main, the last thing on my mind for a kill move would be a back throw. Ness has more than just that. As for bair, Ness can use this as often as he wants. It stales, sure, but it can also kill even after the amount of times it is used and his bair is pretty much the equivalent of Falcon's Knee.

ESAM said:

Edgeguarding:

Ness's recovery is pretty bad. His up-b is really easy to gimp. If he is low and doesn't have his double jump, jump into him. If he up-Bs, try to intercept the actual thunder so he can't even get the boost. If worst comes to worst, go in his path and airdodge. If you are close enough, Ness's path will shorten even though you technically didn't get hit. If you get hit by PKT2, you are in a for a world of hurt. I have died from this attack at 30% (going across the entire stage, not just the short blast zone). This is ness's strongest attack by far.
Pikachu's recovery, adversely, is barely effected by ness. The only thing he can really do is send a PK Thunder out and try to hit you, but it won't disrupt you too much. Make sure you don't get in a pattern of recovering, because then he will hit with PK Fire to Dair, which will kill you at basically any %. You should be pretty safe off the edge against ness.

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Actually, Ness' recovery is decent. If you want pretty bad, see Olimar or Link. When you hit your opponent, do they DI downward? No. If they do, then they should reconsider which direction they want to go. Another thing, Ness mains should always have their second jump. So when you say, "If they don't have their second jump," it sounds pretty situational. Your Thunder edgeguards aren't really that great against Ness, either. Also, you say you've died by PKT2? Yeah, that tends to happen when someone tries to edgeguard Ness.

Chances are you'll get hit, he'll make it to the edge or just land back on the cliff. Again, his recovery isn't as bad as people make it sound. Also, we won't just send PKT at you when you're recovering. We can still attack you with other attacks. If you happen to land back on the stage, just remember that we can bait you to recover right into a PKT2. It's situational, yes, but possible.

ESAM said:

On the ground:

Pikachu has a better ground game than ness. Ness best spacing tool is his F-tilt. It has decent range, but our D-tilt has more range, so you can always outrange him. Ness will probably try to grab you at low %s and do D-throw > fair > DJ Fair (if you DI bad) for a good 20-25%. Pikachu cannot CG ness, with Forward or buffered down. So, the best thing you can do is F-throw > U-smash at low %s. Grabs will always be good to get ness of the cliff and edgeguard him. Pikachu's speed on the ground vastly beats Ness's. Pikachu has more range, and beats him in general.

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As for ground game, yes, most characters have a better one than Ness. As for grabbing to d-throw > fair, that's pretty predictable and can work, but not all Ness mains do this. But don't think you're all safe on the ground. We can still throw out a number of attacks on the ground or even in the air and basically retreat. Plus, Double Aerial Shuffle.

ESAM said:

Air:

I would say that Ness and Pikachu are even in the air. Pikachu has the speed advantage, but ness has more range with his disjointed fair, and godly bair. Ness's nair i believe comes out in 3-5 frames, 1 frame faster t0 1 frame slower than pikachu's nair, and is a good GTFO move. This means he will use it to try to break out of your comboes. However, with our overall speed, Ness should normally be on the defensive in the air. Uair comboes own ness pretty hard for a few reasons. When ness DJs, he dips down and it takes him a while to actually start moving up, which makes him unable to jump out of our comboes. However, he can maybe jump and AD really quick, which looks really weird btw. Pikachu can always follow him, but don't be too over aggressive, cuz ness can knock you away and do a bit of damage with his aerials and grabs.

Uh...thats about it...idk if i'm right or not since i haven't played a ness offline in months.

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I have no idea what you're talking about with all this mumbo jumbo of uair combos in the air. You make it sound like Pikachu is a Flying type. But whatever. Ness' air game outdoes Pikachu's.

don't make ness sound too good, nobody is going to believe you're talking about the same character. lulz

J4pu said:

don't make ness sound too good, nobody is going to believe you're talking about the same character. lulz

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Actually, I play against a really good Ness all the time... My own lil brother, and Ness is not to be trifled with. I'd say that if the Ness player knows pikachu well enough and we know ness, its still very competitive--sorta like if it weren't for the fact that ness can be near-infinited by a couple of char, then ness would be used a ton more (fox as hi-tier if it weren't for his cg weaknesses).

My best approach for his f-airs are t-jolts sometimes aerial or grounded. Make sure the ness is short hopping when t-jolting, otherwise QaC> u-air or just u-air. Watch out for all of ness's aerials b/c they have good range and some are killers.

In terms of just killing pikachu, Ness's d-air can kill at near ANY percent higher. I found that once a ness finds out sort of how pika's think, the d-air gets scary. Like on BF, if the pika is b-thrown at a hi-percent, and reflexively performs the momentum brake, Ness can get on a platform>double jump>d-air b4 pika's can recover from doing the skull bash in time. I was amazed at the height that kid can get. B-air comes right up there (still a lil bit weaker but hey... it works) with flash-toe of Zelda's and THE KNEE. U-air can kill and b/c ness's aerial's can't double-jump cancel, the spacing of any of his aerial's can be mindgames or disjointed attacks.

As for a PKT2, i thunder wall or just shoot a t jolt right at them. That ball will also shorten the distance of PKT2.

Uffe said:

If PKF is predictable, then they're using it waaay too often. Another thing is that you can DI out of PKF all you want. Ness won't always grab their opponent when they're in PKF. By the way, most Ness mains don't edgeguard with PKF. They've got PKT and PKFl, or they can just go out and nair or fair and even attempt to pull off a dair. There are a few more options, but that's for the most part.



What? For the most part, some Ness mains don't bother using PSIM against Pikachu's Thunder Jolt because they can just jump it. And the chance of them ever using their PSIM is at a distance which by the time Thunder Jolt hit his PSIM, he can just lag cancel out of it. The same thing applies with Pikachu's Thunder.



Not really. As a Ness main, the last thing on my mind for a kill move would be a back throw. Ness has more than just that. As for bair, Ness can use this as often as he wants. It stales, sure, but it can also kill even after the amount of times it is used and his bair is pretty much the equivalent of Falcon's Knee.



Actually, Ness' recovery is decent. If you want pretty bad, see Olimar or Link. When you hit your opponent, do they DI downward? No. If they do, then they should reconsider which direction they want to go. Another thing, Ness mains should always have their second jump. So when you say, "If they don't have their second jump," it sounds pretty situational. Your Thunder edgeguards aren't really that great against Ness, either. Also, you say you've died by PKT2? Yeah, that tends to happen when someone tries to edgeguard Ness.

Chances are you'll get hit, he'll make it to the edge or just land back on the cliff. Again, his recovery isn't as bad as people make it sound. Also, we won't just send PKT at you when you're recovering. We can still attack you with other attacks. If you happen to land back on the stage, just remember that we can bait you to recover right into a PKT2. It's situational, yes, but possible.



As for ground game, yes, most characters have a better one than Ness. As for grabbing to d-throw > fair, that's pretty predictable and can work, but not all Ness mains do this. But don't think you're all safe on the ground. We can still throw out a number of attacks on the ground or even in the air and basically retreat. Plus, Double Aerial Shuffle.



I have no idea what you're talking about with all this mumbo jumbo of uair combos in the air. You make it sound like Pikachu is a Flying type. But whatever. Ness' air game outdoes Pikachu's.

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Remember, i said i didn't remember if i was right, i haven't played one in forever, and idk how their metagame has evolved.

J4pu said:

don't make ness sound too good, nobody is going to believe you're talking about the same character. lulz

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I'm not making him sound too good. It's just everybody thinks that, "Oh, because he's Ness, knock him off the stage and you'll automatically win." It doesn't work like that. All I was doing was trying to give people an idea here of what Ness can and cannot do. He's obviously got limits, but when it comes down to a match up thread versuses Ness, it's always about gimping his recovery. That doesn't determine a match up, that makes you sound ignorant and arrogant.

And when it comes down to gimping, Mario, Squirtle, possibly G&W and Lucas have a better chance of doing that, just to name a few. It's not like I totally disagreed with every word ESAM wrote. All I was doing was pointing out things like Ness is not going to use his PSIM close up against Pikachu when he uses Thunder Jolt when all Ness has to do is jump it. That's just an example, I'm not going to go through everything I just wrote.

it was half a joke half because I'm used to using Falco and wasn't thinking straight.
I play xoxo all the time, I know Ness isn't an insta-gimp

J4pu said:

it was half a joke half because I'm used to using Falco and wasn't thinking straight.
I play xoxo all the time, I know Ness isn't an insta-gimp

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Sorry for taking that literal then.

Don't use thunder.
Bat/Magnet *****.

lol, they can combo Ness into Thunder for the KO.