Sheik's pressure game

theres a few more options. i like shffling fairs into jabs and **** and spacing f-tilts.


needles can also be used to increase pressure if you use them well, but don't overdo it., it usually gets you killed.


just dash aroound and jab a and grab. the most important part is spacing though.

Sheik's grab game is pretty good. You can chain grab certain characters like Marth, Ganon, with down throw chain grabs.

You can apply a lot of pressure on the edge itself by shooting some needles down at a recovering opponent.

Good luck!

spacing can be pressure...

kk posting

grabs
spaced aerials
low shffls
spaced tilts
u-tilt
spaced jabs
rapid jabs
d-smash
dash dance
wavedash
needles

all these are important useful elements of sheik's pressure game.

learn how to use them all properly and you can wail on shields just like fox and falco (not really).

Sanuzi said:

kk posting

grabs
spaced aerials
low shffls
spaced tilts
u-tilt
spaced jabs
rapid jabs
d-smash
dash dance
wavedash
needles

all these are important useful elements of sheik's pressure game.

learn how to use them all properly and you can wail on shields just like fox and falco (not really).

Click to expand...

This is all true, but u just kinda listed all her moves and said "pressure with them". Its kinda vague. Or u can look at it as open to interpretation since there are infinite ways to combine everything.

plus u forgot to mention standing. Get them in shield then just look at them and wait for something to happen.

Old school grab/dsmash mixups are tested and true. ( if u don't know for some reason, u cant sidestep the dsmash, and u cant shield a grab, mix these two up and ****)

but i have been experimenting with actual pressure strings using all these new autocancels that i am getting a feel for.

This is my favorite thing right now. full hop autocancel nair over their shield, DI to the inside of the back of the shield, and turn around utilt quickly upon landing > grab. (careful, CC kinda ***** this)

Also spaced autocancel fairs on shields, i really like the autocancel cuz if they sidestep the aerial u get an insta-punish (grab/tilt/dsmash), plus u don't have to worry about altering lcancelling timing depending if u hit a shield or they sidestep. Late fairs have a lil more range which is useful alot of the time, these need to be cancelled. A good drill is to alternate autocancel fairs and late fairs and get the feel for switching them up on the fly.

from there the best options are simple jab/grab mixups, keep shffling moves, instant full hop rising double fair( use control stick jump to maintain safe DI, also dont fastall the second one and it will autocancel too) Dash away come back and do something. dash away and bair over shield (i do this waaay too much). Be creative and combine stuff like sh fair, dash away, run back and do full hop autocancel nair to back of shield > utilt.

I used to think her pressure sucked, but its just a lil different, there are a ton of things to do. Just note that all her pressure has tons of frames that can be simply rolled/jumped out of so u have to keep an eye on this carefully. There is no frame perfect inescapable strings of moves like fox shine>bair, and gay *** shine>grab (u can get out of that, but it's still dumb).

The general formula is to do safe stuff and keep your eyes open, it feels very similar to marth's pressure game for me.

Just spam moves. And space them. Remember that grab is a move.

Mixup with waiting and punishing defensive stuff and you're golden.

RedShadow530 said:

Yeah I've been playing around with that auto-cancel stuff, but the timing for hitting it is kinda hard for me, especially against space animals.

I would assume this is easier on taller characters like Marth.

Click to expand...

it doesnt have to technically be able to hit THEM to use it to pressure shields.

Use the long spacing of the late fair, and doing the slightly higher shorter range autocancel version may not normally hit them consistently (although i get it to hit + autocancel real consistently now though, its a subtle timing) but it still connects with their shield which is a bigger hitbox. It also keeps them from jumping which ensures they stay in shield.

And if You play people who sidestep all your aerials into a crouch cancel you will be glad do know how to autocancel fair + grab the sidestep.

but if they dont shield and crouch alot, late spaced fairs are better cuz they will actually connect. be able to alternate instantly.

sheik doesn't pressure in the traditional sense. what she does do is control space.

basically you just space. that simple.

if they ever try to test your spacing, you can always do retreating autocancel aerials that, if are ever tested, lead to an ftilt or utilt right in their face.

and you just wait for the roll or jump cause that's suicide. honestly i let them stay in their shields a lot more than trying to constantly pressure them, cause once they're shielded, honestly, what can they do?

He isn't talking about pressure exactly, and it's a Brawl example, but HugS's recent blog post on allisbrawl briefly addresses needles:

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=16108

Second paragraph.

Because I'm bored and I need to figure out some more tricks so I can make it out of pools the next tournament I go to, I'll just do some frame data for some fun shield pressure with Sheik.

This and this are really important threads.

Fair -> jab (assumes you're already airborne)
1 Start Fair
2 starting fair
3 starting fair
4 starting fair
5 fair comes out, first hitbox misses
6 second hitbox misses
7 last hitbox HITS
8 hitlag
9 hitlag
10 hitlag
11 hitlag
12 hitlag
13 hitlag
14
15
16
17 land, auto cancel
18 land lag
19 land lag
20 land lag
21 start jab
22 jab hits

Unless they buffer a spotdodge (invincible on frame 2 afaik) they cannot beat the jab with anything. Rolls are invincible starting frame 3 I believe, so theoretically you can even beat rolls like this, though they just need to hold the c stick and L and you need to actually input complex commands frame perfectly. Also I'm not completely sure how you would need to time the fast fall so that you land on frame 11 and hit with the very end of the hitbox. Also, you can replace the jab with a bunch of things as seen in the following examples.

Fair -> jump away (fair again?) (assumes you're already airborne)
1 Start Fair
2 starting fair
3 starting fair
4 starting fair
5 fair comes out, first hitbox misses
6 second hitbox misses
7 last hitbox HITS
8 hitlag
9 hitlag
10 hitlag
11 hitlag
12 hitlag
13 hitlag
14
15
16
17 land, auto cancel
18 land lag
19 land lag
20 land lag
21 start jump
22 jumping
23 jumping
24 airborne and moving away
25 "
26 "
27 "

Basically the same thing as above, except with jumping away. I'm not sure how fast Sheik moves away when she jumps, but I think that by the time the shieldgrab comes out, she would be too far away to grab and would be able to slap the grabber.

Fair -> nair (assumes you're already airborne)
1 Start Fair
2 starting fair
3 starting fair
4 starting fair
5 fair comes out, first hitbox misses
6 second hitbox misses
7 last hitbox HITS
8 hitlag
9 hitlag
10 hitlag
11 hitlag
12 hitlag
13 hitlag
14
15
16
17 land, auto cancel
18 land lag
19 land lag
20 land lag
21 start jump
22 jumping
23 jumping
24 airborne, nair starts
25 nairing
26 nair hits

Might be useful if you're under a low platform, but then you can always do fair for a higher payoff.

Fair -> fair (assumes you're already airborne)
1 Start Fair
2 starting fair
3 starting fair
4 starting fair
5 fair comes out, first hitbox misses
6 second hitbox misses
7 last hitbox HITS
8 hitlag
9 hitlag
10 hitlag
11 hitlag
12 hitlag
13 hitlag
14
15
16
17 land, auto cancel
18 land lag
19 land lag
20 land lag
21 start jump
22 jumping
23 jumping
24 airborne, fair starts
25 fairing
26 fairing
27 fairing
28 fair hits

If you short hop the fair it's a high risk because if they don't jump out, they can grab you unless you can do a retreating short hop frame perfect fair which is ridiculously hard unless you claw, and even then they can probably still aerial you depending on what character they are playing as. If you do this as a full jump fair so you land on a platform for example, then the fair does not hit short characters (it hits Fox' shield, but not Fox himself).

Fair -> grab (for the mindgames I guess? lulz)
1 Start Fair
2 starting fair
3 starting fair
4 starting fair
5 fair comes out, first hitbox misses
6 second hitbox misses
7 last hitbox HITS
8 hitlag
9 hitlag
10 hitlag
11 hitlag
12 hitlag
13 hitlag
14
15
16
17 land, auto cancel
18 land lag
19 land lag
20 land lag
21 start grab
22 grabbing
23 grabbing
24 grabbing
25 grabbing
26 grabbing
27 grab hits

Needles -> jab The problem here is that you have to get lucky with the timing so that the last needle hits the frame before you land

Best case:

jump
[...]
1 needle hits (these go at 3 frame intervals btw)
2 land
3 land
4 land
5 land
6 start jab
7 jab hits

Worst case:

jump
[...]
1 needle hits
2
3
4 land
5 land
6 land
7 land
8 start jab
9 jab comes out

Jab canceling: (1st jab only)

1 jab
2 jab hits, hitlag
3 hitlag
4 hitlag
5 hitlag
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19 IASA w/ crouch
20 jab
21 jab hits, repeat

Jab canceling (2 jabs)
1 jab
2 jab hits, hitlag
3 hitlag
4 hitlag
5 hitlag
6 second jab starts
7
8
9
10
11
12
13 second jab hits, hitlag
14 hitlag
15 hitlag
16
17
18
19
20
21
22 IASA w/ crouch
23 jab 1 again
24 jab hits

weak Nair -> jab (assumes you're already airborne)
[...] 29 frames of nair not hitting[...]
1 last frame of nair hits, hitlag
2 hitlag
3 hitlag
4 hitlag
5 hitlag
6 hitlag
7 land
8 land lag
9 land lag
10 land lag
11 jab starts
12 jab hits

Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work this way. Have you ever tried hitting a shield with the nair on the frame before you're going to land? It's not really possible due to the curve of the shield unless you do some really wacko air control/FF mix that I haven't heard of yet.

weak Bair-> jab (again, you're already in the air)
[...]18 frames of Bair missing[...]
1 Bair hits, hitlag
2 hitlag
3 hitlag
4 hitlag
5 hitlag
6 hitlag
7
8
9
10
11
12 land
13 land lag
14 land lag
15 land lag
16 jab
17 jab comes out

Due to the bair's low priority, this is best used only as a mixup.

Also, there are probably a lot of mistakes in this, so if something looks fishy, feel free to yell at me.

Like I said, I was bored.

One Word Extinguisher said:

sheik doesn't pressure in the traditional sense. what she does do is control space.

basically you just space. that simple.

if they ever try to test your spacing, you can always do retreating autocancel aerials that, if are ever tested, lead to an ftilt or utilt right in their face.

and you just wait for the roll or jump cause that's suicide. honestly i let them stay in their shields a lot more than trying to constantly pressure them, cause once they're shielded, honestly, what can they do?

Click to expand...

This is very good advice. And possibly the best mix-up in the game.

Meh. Wavedash out of shield beats everything.

And that's why it's not (imo) the best strategy, but rather a very, very good mixup.

Witchking_of_Angmar said:

frame stuff

Click to expand...

Wow, awesome! thank you

Witchking_of_Angmar said:

Meh. Wavedash out of shield beats everything.

Click to expand...

then you start reading it and boost grab it

You have 10 frames of lag after you start moving in the wavedash. Not really enough time to react. You can just run away and pivot an ftilt or something. Or maybe I'm just spoiled cuz I play Fox and I just shine your grab all dai.

Wavedash is at minimum 14 frames of lag, but yeah, it's not much.

If you have the reaction time to call someone for a wavedash when you see the initial jump out of shield or the first 3 frames of the slide lag then more power to you, though. Obviously if you can do that then it's a superior strategy, I just don't think most people can and it's safer for me to continue to apply pressure to cover those shield options safely. Sheik is fortunate that she can do that.

One Word Extinguisher said:

then you start reading it and boost grab it

Click to expand...

KirbyKaze said:

Wavedash is at minimum 14 frames of lag, but yeah, it's not much.

If you have the reaction time to call someone for a wavedash when you see the initial jump out of shield or the first 3 frames of the slide lag then more power to you, though. Obviously if you can do that then it's a superior strategy, I just don't think most people can and it's safer for me to continue to apply pressure to cover those shield options safely. Sheik is fortunate that she can do that.

Click to expand...

he said reading it, not react to it.

i cant react to jack **** in this game unfortunately

also witchking. thank u for the frame data. I've been spamming alot of autocancel fair jab and it's been catching jumps and getting me grabs.

autocancel fair to grab on shield has been working alot too for me yesterday. I know it's not frame data supported, but i get it to work alot, and my friends fox has very good shine out of shield timing.

Oopsies.

Reading failure johns.

Bumping my own thread...

ROFL

Is there another thread that covers her pressure game more in depth. I've been trying to become a more standard sheik and working the game that DruggedFox told me is the entirety of the spacie matchup, forcing them to the edge by denying space and countering approach, and the theory that WD back or retreating autocancel fair is god.

Make them still. Then grab them.