The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

A2ZOMG · Mar 31, 2009

Snake is a really boring matchup.

Fireball camp a lot. D-air a lot if you must approach (you can try to grab him if he grenade shields too much). Try to do the boss combo on him every so often (Jab combo -> U-air -> F-air -> F-air).

All in all you're going to camp a lot. He's going to camp a lot. Getting in his range is hard if he's good.

Up-smash doesn't kill him until like 150%...get really good at landing F-smashes if you need to directly KO him.

Hot_ArmS · Mar 31, 2009

grab snake when he lands

Famous · Mar 31, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
Snake is a really boring matchup.

Fireball camp a lot. D-air a lot if you must approach (you can try to grab him if he grenade shields too much). Try to do the boss combo on him every so often (Jab combo -> U-air -> F-air -> F-air).

All in all you're going to camp a lot. He's going to camp a lot. Getting in his range is hard if he's good.

Up-smash doesn't kill him until like 150%...get really good at landing F-smashes if you need to directly KO him.

Lol, Boss combo...The combo is situational...It doesn't work half the time these days...Snakes are smarter these days, they'll DI away from the stage while keeping there 2nd jump...

The Famous combo on the other hand...works like magic if you want to rack damage really fast..Boss even uses it now

AndreVeloso · Mar 31, 2009

Cape Gliding is very effective in edgeguarding snake or generally keeping him away from the ledge. He also has little options for this as his f-air has amazing start-up lag compared to the cape and the his n-air takes a long time to finish. Otherwise, d-air on him while he's recovering to get damage on him. And not to forget fireball spam

:mad: · Mar 31, 2009

I am writing this because of an argument that spawned on the Sonic xat. A member by the name of "Gf2tw" decided to call me out and taunt my poor, innocent self into writing an essay on why I believe 3rd generation Pokemon is better than 2nd generation. I took him up on that offer, since I have the night to myself.

Instead of telling you why 3rd gen is better, all I have to do is point out the many flaws G/S/C does. As you start the game, there's so many unimaginitive text boxes that ruin the game for me. Click on the oven in your own house, and you'll discover your mother's specialty, the "CINNABAR VOLCANO BURGER". Who'd have thunk it? The names in Johto are so uncreative, the staff couldn't come up with a Johto themed food instead.

Next, we meet our rival.

Look at him. Just look at him. Easily the worst rival in any Pokemon game, and it's to be expected. He doesn't even have a name! The development team was too lazy to give him a name. He didn't even have a set of default names, like every other game did. This is a major problem with me, because I don't have time to give this guy a name. I just got my first Pokemon, I'm a busy guy, just because he's a dirty thief doesn't mean I have to give the hopeless police officer his information. It's not like police have ever been any good in the past.

Now, by the time you finish giving this guy your "rival's" name, you'll have already picked a starter. Which one did you choose? They're all bad, so it doesn't matter.

Chikorita and Feraligatr are horrible for a number of reasons. Chikorita had a horrible movepool, it could get easily picked apart by any Pokemon with a move effective against grass. Feraligatr had stats in the wrong department. Cyndaquil was the only logical choice, it's not that it was good, just... not AS bad.

The radio idea was a good concept, but they blew it with such horrible music and repetitive lyrics.

G/S/C also introduced apricots. These items are near useless, since they can only be made into special Pokeballs, which only can be "built" once per day. You're better off sticking with Ultras.

One of my biggest complaints, the region itself. There's nothing interesting about it.

Monk/Honkey/Banana · Mar 31, 2009

Every stage Mario is good on Snake is better on...in the end it comes down to preference

FD is probably your best bet for neutrals simply cause it's harder for him to control the stage...maybe battlefield if you're feeling frisky.
---
Snake can get out of Utilt chains after the first 4 or 5 if he jumps
---

there really isn't anything to say about this match-up unless you Fair Snake at a low % and kill him it's going to be in his favor

Mario_ 101 · Mar 31, 2009

Straked said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but fireballs make grenades explode on contact, like all attacks, right? If they chuck a 'nade if your face, which is bound to happen, it'll only hurt yourself.

I think the Snake boards would disagree.

meh i fullhop when i fireball spam vs snake. makes it hard for him to hit you w/ a projectile. also fireballs actually don't make the grenades explode on contact unless the grenades are on the ground, i think.

DtJ XeroXen · Mar 31, 2009

Yeah, the grenades have to be motionless to explode. I know I've fireballed grenades flying at me, just to see them stop before.

I really suck at this matchup, until I start playing owut defensive, and then I still suck at it.

AVOID THE TILTS!

Famous · Mar 31, 2009

Tilts in general destroys Mario ground game...

KirinBlaze · Mar 31, 2009

Something I like to do is shield the initial knee of his Ftilt the spot dodge the second half then punish with an Ftilt or Jab combo. You should also get a read for what the Snake you're playing likes to do when falling back onstage from his recovery. A lot of the Snake's I play air dodge when coming down to the ground, this sets up for easy charged Usmash's that KO in some cases. When this first happens you should get under the falling Snake and see what he does when coming down on you and based off this properly punish it the next time around. Mindgame with your Fair's as well, Snake's often tend you airdodge out of the cypher when you jump after them offstage, take a small jump toward them but go for the ledge as you do this. They'll airdodge right into past the ledge you're on and die. It's worked for me a few times.

hundreds of utilts · Apr 1, 2009

i hate that cape...

:mad: · Apr 1, 2009

I hate your tilts.
We're even.

Thanks for the contribution.

FrankPizzi · Apr 1, 2009

Snake is a boring and annoying to fight, you cant do much on the ground except fire ball spam or uptilts, Dthrows can lead to Air combos where you get most dmg done, and spiking isnt that hard vs Snake.

Correct me if I'm wrong :/.

KirinBlaze · Apr 1, 2009

SHDair>Second Jump>Uair>Uair/Nair/Bair (Only if shot out behind you from the Dair.)
Utilt>Utilt>Dsmash

Great combos on Snake people.

Kataefi · Apr 2, 2009

Heya everyone, we've been discussing Mario in our matchup thread and we're inviting all Mario mains to come and join!

Lets keep debates as informed and objective as possible; you know what Zelda mains are like ^^

See you there!

:mad: · Apr 2, 2009

I think every character board knows not to show up to a matchup discussion. :laugh:

I'd actually like to see some opinions on Mario, though. Thanks for letting us know. ^^

-Sensei- · Apr 3, 2009

This has become my favorite thread on the Mario boards. I just wanted to say thanks to Straked for making this thread.

On Snake, as most have said, keep him in the air. Uptilts at low percents and down throw to just about anything. Offstage, fair is your best friend. Also, that mind game that KirinBlaze brought up (jumping like you're going to do a fair, but going for the ledge instead) is good. I never even thought of doing that.

Hot_ArmS · Apr 3, 2009

use your fludd on the cypher, its funny

:mad: · Apr 4, 2009

Bootleg544 said:
This has become my favorite thread on the Mario boards. I just wanted to say thanks to Straked for making this thread.

On Snake, as most have said, keep him in the air. Uptilts at low percents and down throw to just about anything. Offstage, fair is your best friend. Also, that mind game that KirinBlaze brought up (jumping like you're going to do a fair, but going for the ledge instead) is good. I never even thought of doing that.

I appreciate you saying so, but I really feel bad for making this. I haven't been able to make it very impressive. Now that I'm on Spring Break, I'll be able to get some stuff done. You might be impressed with the overall look of everything once I update the OP.

KirinBlaze · Apr 5, 2009

I really don't think there's much life in the Snake boards for them to come in here and offer their wisdom. That and I've said more then enough on the match-up. xD I think we should move on. I know we have had some requests in the MBR to do the IC's match-up.

B8RPE · Apr 5, 2009

I love that the first thing i see when i come in this thread, is that Mario vs Snake is a 50:50 matchup. lol more like 60:40 or 65:35.

:mad: · Apr 5, 2009

B8RPE said:
I love that the first thing i see when i come in this thread, is that Mario vs Snake is a 50:50 matchup. lol more like 60:40 or 65:35.

Why do you say this? Have you ever played a good Mario? You Snakes don't really help much, just assume you have the better character and call it an easy win for you.

Sorry to say, but you're wrong.

Monk/Honkey/Banana · Apr 5, 2009

The match up is 60:40

Mario will go even with Snake...but Snake will be able to get the last hit a lot quicker

hippiedude92 · Apr 5, 2009

I find it around 45:55 ish IMO... unless the snake is like real techanical like Ally.... maybe 40:60 Snake in my book.. but since i'm so nub... I just CP luigi and win... hehe... *lol no total help at all.*

Matador · Apr 5, 2009

40:60 Snake imo. It's winnable for Mario, but you definitely have to work harder for that last hit than Snake. That, and he's racking up damage quicker too.

Not 50:50 though, I don't see it.

I usually take him to BF, simply because it's easier to keep pressure on him and stay below him for easier combos. He has his advantages here too, but at least you'll have more options as well. I also never save my Usmash vs Snake. There's no point. It's a great damage racker as well as a killer, so might as well use it for driving up his percentage.

:mad: · Apr 5, 2009

We all know it's not a Mario advantage, that goes without says. As it stands, the matchup is 45:55, arguable for 40:60.

I'll be updating later today.

HeroMystic · Apr 6, 2009

Go with Olimar or Ice Climbers next.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Apr 7, 2009

I want some clarification on the Peach vs Mario match up. The Peach Boards match up thread can be found here

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178193

Post something there or here (prefferably over at our thread so it doesn't clutter up yours). Pointers, what Mario can do, things to watch out for etc etc. I'm aware the discussion has been fairly heated but I'd like to get info sorted so I can do a write up. This match up has been discussed a fair bit so yea

Oh and any good, reasonably recent Peach vs Mario videos where both sides show what each character is capable of against each other would be nice for the video section as well

manofgames4555 · Apr 7, 2009

A florida Mario main- Walnut!

Straked said:
Why do you say this? Have you ever played a good Mario? You Snakes don't really help much, just assume you have the better character and call it an easy win for you.

Sorry to say, but you're wrong.

I am Walnut from ********* smash crew in Florida. I am the Mario main in the crew and have to say the match up is 60/40 in Snakes favor. Definitely a hard fight. I play against one of the best snakes down here Hrnut and I struggle to get him to one stock. So I would have to disagree with you. I am a decent Mario. Until I see a Mario beat my crew mates snake consistently then. I will vote 60/40.

PS. It is difficult...

Matt07 · Apr 7, 2009

Hiya! Welcome to the Mario boards ^_^.

Another Florida main, dang there's a lot. You guys should come to Canada and rep Mario. Plus there's always the cold weather here :chuckle:

.

FrankPizzi · Apr 7, 2009

Matt07 said:
Hiya! Welcome to the Mario boards ^_^.

Another Florida main, dang there's a lot. You guys should come to Canada and rep Mario. Plus there's always the cold weather here .

Matt you'll be hearing of my name soon enough, I'm really serious now about Mario.

Fatmanonice · Apr 7, 2009

HeroMystic said:
Go with Olimar or Ice Climbers next.

I don't know about the Ice Climbers. Snake has a fairly easy time keeping them apart and if he's good at camping with grenades, decent chain grabs are hard to pull off. Falco and King Dedede would be better choices in that regard.

:mad: · Apr 7, 2009

I think we might as well go with Olimar next, followed by Diddy. Then maybe Ice Climbers.

Olimar discussion starts now.

hippiedude92 · Apr 7, 2009

Nair is your friend. Srsly.
Also its tricky to gimp smart Oli`s

KirinBlaze · Apr 7, 2009

I hate this match-up soooo much. The only thing I really do in this match up is camp fireballs, cape, and dair. Dair will hit the Pikmin right off of you without taking any damage. I try and slowly approach with SHDair's and try and get inside them when they're low on Pikmin or plucking for new ones. Olimar isn't very difficult to combo. Try RAR'ing but instead of Bair'ing just Airdodge into and behind their shield, all Olimar's love to shield grab so just grab them or attack them once you land. Don't be afraid to attack right when he grabs because Olimar doesn't get super armor frames during his grab, only his Pikmin do. He's not so difficult to gimp either.

I have no idea on a ratio.

:mad: · Apr 7, 2009

God, Kirin. You're so helpful. Thanks for the summary, although I'm pretty sure Olimar Upsmash beats Dair.

I'll check their matchup thread.

vato_break · Apr 7, 2009

60:40 mario wins.

:mad: · Apr 7, 2009

Any reasons? o:
I was leaning more towards 55:45 or 50:50. Mainly because Mario has some of the best options for stopping his pikmin throw and he can gimp Olimar easier than most other characters.

Olimar beats us on the ground, only because of that range.

Brave Hippo · Apr 7, 2009

Ahh Olimar, you know you love him. Now.

Olimar is a versatile character in the sense that he can be played extremely campy or extremely aggressively. Mario has to adapt to what the Olimar main is doing. Say the Olimar is playing campy, he will always be doing his Side B which is the Pikmin throw. Mario has been gifted with a cape. The cape CAN reflect the pikmin back at Oli and hit him with his own Pikmin. If you manage this, the Olimar will either start to sheild or do a Down B whistle.(In some cases, its just easier for the Olimar to kill his own Pikmin and then quickly pluck more.) This gets the Pikmin off of the Oli main and allows him to continue camping. What you'll want to do when playing against a CAMPLY Olimar is watch out for Olis insane grab range and Pikmin throw move. You can easily counter the Pikmin throw with teh cape, then approach with an aerial. Remember, he cant grab you if your in the air. This, however, brings up the fact of what if he sheilds my aerial? Well, chances are he'll go for Dsmash or an Usmash, perhaps a grab if hes looking to try and combo you. Both the Dsmash and Usmash come out pretty quickly but are incredibly easy to see coming. If he tries to smash you, sheild and then grab him. This opens up into Marios incredible Grab game which can get the Oli off the stage and set up for an easy gimp. Oli has a tether recovery, which is his biggest weakness. If you throw him off the stage, hit him with a Bair, and then cape him, hes toast.

Aggressive Oli is another beast, though. I will update this post after I use the restroom.

kirbywizard · Apr 7, 2009

Brave Hippo said:
Ahh Olimar, you know you love him. Now.

Olimar is a versatile character in the sense that he can be played extremely campy or extremely aggressively. Mario has to adapt to what the Olimar main is doing. Say the Olimar is playing campy, he will always be doing his Side B which is the Pikmin throw. Mario has been gifted with a cape. The cape CAN reflect the pikmin back at Oli and hit him with his own Pikmin. If you manage this, the Olimar will either start to sheild or do a Down B whistle.(In some cases, its just easier for the Olimar to kill his own Pikmin and then quickly pluck more.) This gets the Pikmin off of the Oli main and allows him to continue camping. What you'll want to do when playing against a CAMPLY Olimar is watch out for Olis insane grab range and Pikmin throw move. You can easily counter the Pikmin throw with teh cape, then approach with an aerial. Remember, he cant grab you if your in the air. This, however, brings up the fact of what if he sheilds my aerial? Well, chances are he'll go for Dsmash or an Usmash, perhaps a grab if hes looking to try and combo you. Both the Dsmash and Usmash come out pretty quickly but are incredibly easy to see coming. If he tries to smash you, sheild and then grab him. This opens up into Marios incredible Grab game which can get the Oli off the stage and set up for an easy gimp. Oli has a tether recovery, which is his biggest weakness. If you throw him off the stage, hit him with a Bair, and then cape him, hes toast.

Aggressive Oli is another beast, though. I will update this post after I use the restroom.

Well Hippo you really know how to steal the facts, also I find it is easier for people with many characters to just quickly grab the edge of the stage to gimp olimar. It does not take to much work to gimp olimar tether recovery. A good cp stage could really help win a match against a campy olimar. If you can keep track on what pikmin is up next for an attack that helps to. A blue pikmin means that the olimar is most likely planning for a grab, if you have high damage that blue pikmin can kill you with a back throw or heck an upthrow. If a purple pikmin is up for an attack, it can kill pretty soon with a up smash or down smash. Stages with low ceiling should not be picked in this match. Olimar can get in some good combos early in the match. I say 45-55 olimar's favor . Darn my grammar is bad.

The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

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