Bowser Matchup(Updated Last 05/07/09)

Bowser



General Discussion

Bowser can be a real tough matchup if the bowser knows what they are doing. Like snake, bowser only really needs a few tilts and jabs and grabs to get you into kill range and then a few more to get you into "i need to stay away frmo bowser cuz even his first breath will kill me" mode. This matchup is in favor or pika though mind you so don't dread it too much.

Pika's Advantages

1. CG to ~60%
2. the tjolt
3. speed
4. combo ability

Pika's Disadvantages

1. Size (no matter what the girls say, it matters)
2. Can be comboed out of a grab release


Strategy for Winning

The first and most important thing to remember in this matchup is that you need to be careful at all times when playing bowser. Even if you are two stocks ahead, be careful because Bowser can easily regain the lead and the win. Bowser is heavy and isn't killed easily, unless you manage to get a well placed Fsmash or thunder.


Bowser's Moveset on the Ground

Smashes
The first thing to discuss are his smashes. The worst out of all of them is his Usmash. You never really have to worry about this unless you have made a mistake and are right on top of bowser and open to attack. However, you do have to watch out for his Fsmash and Dsmash. Both smashes have some startup time and lag time, which is great for punishing with a grab or a DACUS or rising Nair if missed, but their power more than makes up for it. The Fsmash can kill Pikachu as early as 55% if even partially charged and near the ledge. When you see a Bowser about to use his Fsmash, stay away and make sure to move in ONLY when you see his head falling towards the ground. If you are too close, be sure to shield it instead of spotdodging. Bowser players are usually very good at predicting opponents and sometimes they will charge it partially or fully to throw off your timing and get a hit in.As for his dsmash, don't go rolling around him or it will hit you. It sucks you in and is super hard to DI out of. Just mash your buttons as quick as you can so that the last hit doesn't hit you, which call kill you as low as 100%.

When hit by the fsmash do not DI down. You need to DI horizontally left or right. DI'ing down will kill you faster. Do not use skullbash after using your uair/dair to momentum cancel either.

VERY IMPORTANT: If the bowser is using his fsmash and you are near the bowser, you can walk towards bowser and if you can reach his foot and touch the bowser, his fsmash will not hit you. You can walk right through bowser.

Tilts + Jab
Now lets talk about his tilts, which are very important to Bowser. He will try to space you with his Ftilt and try to rack up damage that way. It has priority over our physical moves (grounded), but not moves such as our Fsmash. Bowser extends his hurtbox when he uses Ftilt. SO if you can space it properly and predict it, you can punish with a Fsmash. If you are in the air and he Ftilts(he can angle it) then he is open to attack from his head back. The hitbox revolves around his arm and stops near his head. This means a Fair, Dair, or Bair can be landed on him!!!!

Next lets talk about his Utilt, which can kill at around 110%, even at 105% on Halberd, if you don't have good DI. It can be used against our Dair since it has wicked priority. If we try to space with Fair from above, he can Utilt. Whenever you are at a high percentage, a FF Fair should not be an option unless you can almost guarantee that it won't be punished. So unless he is using his fire breath or has whiffed an attack, try to stay away from using an aerial like that.

As for his Dtilt, it us situational since Bowsers are more prone to use their Ftilt, but it is still a fast move with fairly low lag. You will see it a few times in the match. Rember that there are two swipes to his Dtilt so be sure to shield them or shield then spotdodge the second swipe. Spotdodging the first will result in getting hit by the second. Most of the time Dtilt is used after you have been grab released. Dtilt is a good kill move actually so be wary once in kill range, which is around 120%. This is for when the Dtilt is fresh though. When it isn't fresh then you can live to upwards of 180% if DI'd properly. When you DI it you need to DI horizontally towards the stage and be sure to use Uair>skullbash for momentum canceling.

Bowser's jab comes out within the first 7 frames and has two swipes. each swipe causes ~5% damage. It is used when pressured and they don't want to UpB. Shield it or shield>spotdodge second swipe. There is little to no lag so be sure to act quick against his jab. Other than that, watch out for it when close, I can't really describe it well.

Bowser's Aerial's

Bowsers best aerial, imo, is his fair. It's fairly quick and cuases good knockback and damage. His utilt can kill relatively easy and same with his bair. Do not get hit by them. if bowser is in the air, try to predict his motives and from there you can tell what to do. If he uses a move and misses, then punish. Especially with his bair or dair. they are laggy. Dair isn't used that much so don't worry about it.

Bowser's Specials

First thing to talk about his his fire breath. It can cancel out tjolts and rack up +60% if you don't DI out of it. For Pikachu, DI up and away as fast as possible to escape. When hanging on the ledge and he uses it, just stall until it runs out. If he is right on the edge then do the same and after it fades use a ledge attack. To punish you will most likely use your tjolt although sometimes you can get in a fair or dair or bair.

His DownB will send Bowser up into the air and then land on the opponent. If you are near you will get sucked up and then landed on. It can cause ~25% fresh and at around 19% staled. If hit by only the second part, it does around 21% fresh and at any percent higher than 8% staled. each time it hits it loses around 2% damage. So it better to be hit early on. When the move is staled it not a threat anymore. Just DI down and you will be fine. What you can do it either shield it or spotdodge the second hit then punish.

When dealing with Bowser's Klaw, you need to be really careful. It comes out super quick and causes plenty of damage. It can kill around 130% staled and 120% fresh. When in the air it is still a huge threat. When shielding, it can still grab you and wreck you. It's good for almost any situation for bowser. When you see bowser coming towards you in the air, DI away. if you are fast enough you should be able to get underneath him but I can almost guarantee that you will get hit by his klaw at least once in a match. To prevent it, try spotdodging or airdodging it. That's the only thing you can do, stay away or dodge.

Bowser's UpB

His upb comes out on frame one, has invincibility until frame 5, and starts the hitbox on frame six. In other words, it really really good. Especially for breaking comboes. He can upb OOS and in between any attack like a dtilt to grab or fthrow or dthrow combo. Learn to be wary of this and not to be super agro.

What to try as a pika player
If playing against Bowser, try not to be super aggressive. be semi-aggressive and camp-happy. If you are ever at a loss of what to do to Bowser, or at high percents, tjolt him. Tjolting from above him is a good thing here since he is big and slow, which gives you time to retreat if necessary. You can bait shields to grab him, or just space with the tjolt to stop from getting close and in range for a death move from Bowser. If you are at 130%, I would recommend you to start tjolt camping and bait mistakes.

When the match is at lower percents your objective if to get a grab and CG it (Fthrow CG and be sure to buffer the dash to grab). When you get the Bowser to around 55%, Dthrow to a Nair, Usmash, utilt>combo, or a uair>combo. But don't get too focused on grabbing. You can always tjolt camp or just plain attack him. You are lucky because as pika players we can uair/utilt combo him fairly easy. When Bowser is on a platform, be sure to camp underneath him with your Uair and force him off so that you can use your Fair to punish and then follow up the Fair with an attack.


The weakess of Bowser is his speed and UNDERNEATH HIM


Your Fair will be great for shield pressuring, but never good for ff'ing unless you know for sure it is going to hit with at least three hits of the Fair or you land behind him. Even if you land behind the Bowser, they will UpB if they are smart to avoid any Utilt or Uair. Be sure to back off after using the fair. I prefer the Pikastorm Dair or the Bair(since the Bair has a nice last hitbox)

The difference maker in this matchup is going to be your grab game. At lower percents you Fthrow CG >dthrow>combo. At higher percents you need to pummel twice/three times then its your choice from there. If its around 70%-85%, I use Dthrow and try to follow it up with an aerial. If they are gonig to predict it then Fthrow and use a rising Nair when chasing them. If you can, Bthrow them of the stage and from there, edgeguard.

Edgeguarding/Killing

When edgeguarding Bowser, you have three choices. The first choice is your wall of thunder. If timed right, Bowser will UpB right into it and that will stop him from recovering. It may not kill him, but it sets up for another edgeguard. The second choice is to tjolt him and then grab the ledge. The tjolt may push him too far away to recover and grabbing the ledge is a precautionary measure. The third is simply grabbing the ledge. If the Bowser does manage to get up and over you, you can quickly get back on and Fair/Dair him due to the lag of his UpB.


When killing Bowser, your best move will be thunder and Usmash. Nair will kill varying on DI but it will kill for sure at like 180%, which isn't good enough. Look for thunder kills near the ledge or Usmash>thunder or Utilt>thunder. You can tech chase into thunder starting around ~110%. Fsmash will kill if sweetspotted but you are going to want to use your Fsmash for spacing and damage racking.


Helpful Video's

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Overall Matchup

60:40 in favor of pikachu

THe main thing bowser has against you is his fire when you are off the level. It is nearly impossible to get around it, and can easily give you 30%. Bowser will outrange you, but you outspeed him by A LOT. If you PS his F-tilt or jab you can run and grab him. This leads to a great CG, 0-60 easily. When you get him to the edge, d-throw to uair nair. Good 50-60% if you don't get the whole CG either way. His fire is basically the only real thing he has on you. However, don't get too aggro because he can Up-b OOS and beat you even if you FF fair into anything. He is powerful, but his kill moves are pretty telegraphed. The one that is hardest to deal with is his D-smash since it is very hard to DI out of and it can kill you at around 100-105%. His other good kill moves are his bair, uair and F-smash, but its kinda obvious when he is gonna go for them, so you shouldn't really get hit unless you get baited to airdodge before hand.

60-40 at least for pikachu.

60-40

Fortress OoS stops a lot of Pika's approaches, but that's moot when you want to grab him and camp him anyways. Don't get grabbed, or he can chaingrab you right back.


Really, this is pretty easy. lol

don't hit his shield

ever

and aerial sideb has a lot more range than you would expect

also he can grab release cg you and kos pretty well + he's fat

thats all you need to know about bowser

ESAM, dtilt and utilt are also legit kill moves on pika since he's light.

Thunder edge guarding is too good against bowser. Are there any videos of bowser vs pikachu? This seems like a pretty obscure matchup. There were some pretty close matches between sliq and anther that I saw on youtube awhile ago.

ive been killed with grab release>dtilt before with pika. its a legit kill move.

Really old matches...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvBAcJZvwWc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjIAtSb5IM

Didn't realize they were both on frigate...sorry. However, the first one is older so i obviously learned a lot more about the MU at the time of the 2nd match, which was still in august...

I feel like bowser could have been combo'd and camped a lot harder in those matches (but like you said those are very old). On the flipside, I didn't see and dtilt or utilt kills from the bowser... which is usually how I kill pika if it's not a bair offstage or lucky smash.

Pika has a longer range projectile, Bowser has most of the attack range.

Depends how you play this one

Pika's tjolt > bowser's fire, in terms of being a projectile. Firebreath at the edge can be extremely annoying...

As long as the pikachu doesn't jump into a ****, I can easily see this as a 60:40. The only thing bowser has on pikachu is his powerful kill moves, but if pika plays smart, he shouldn't be hit be most of those kill moves.

As everyone said already, don't attack his shield, or you might eat an up B OoS or a grab release combo.

This is one of those matchups where the quality of the pikachu is the deciding factor. Every mistake pikachu makes can be punished effectively. However, if the pikachu is really good, then the bowser doesn't have too many tools to use. So, 60-40 sounds good.

just finished writing the bowser matchup guys. if anyone has any problems/concerns please feel free to contact me or post it here.

"This matchup is in favor or pika though mind you so don't dread it too much."

This matchup, however, is still in pikachus favor, so dont' dread it too much.
OR
Mind you, this matchup is still in favor of pika, so don't dread it too much

I know what you mean...but you should've changed it to what i put above...it doesn't make grammatical sense.

lol, somehow the edited part of the first paragraph didn't get replaced. =3

okay time to take over this area. Firstly stating bowsers metagame has advanced significantly so im analysing this on a quick thinking bowser:

Ground game: (attacks)

when facing bowser "on the ground" DO NOT run in for him at all! bowsers are near to marth when it comes to spacing people, so a good bowser will claw, tilt or side+b before you reach him. why? cause when their on the ground, they have nothing to fear from the range of pikachu's ground attacks/grab.
even thunder jolts are risky, cause if everyone can powershield pikachu's thunder and punish or snakes mines they can surely scrape that ground, powershield and f-tilt punish us. so only use if you can assure he can't reach you when he dashes in.
occasionally i say trick bowser and QAC back and forth a good 3/4times as long as bowsers backs towards you so when he randomly d-smashes you get a free hit XD

if your getting jab cancled, just get out and try another approach. we do have three (semi-pointless) options though:

1. keep spot dodging till you see f-tilt then 'attempt' to grab:
A. (your garrentied to lose, but grab armor saves you if bowser clawed late)
B. (once bowser sees the second/third spot dodge coming to an end and your waiting on the f-tilt, bowser will f-smash and it WILL! get you at the end of your last spot dodge unless you predicted it, timd and punished).

2. f-smash at end range of bowsers claw:
- 1a. (bowser will f-tilt and reach you first because his jab cancle gives him the time needed to punish pika before our f-smash)
- 1b. (when bowser realises his f-tilt after jab cancled claw won't reach you, but your still gonna f-smash, bowser intentionly will jump forward and once seen pikas f-smash ff -> fair punish us, otherwise bowser would use second jump and side+b to escape).

3. f-tilt war with bowser:
- 1a. (once you know your out of range from the claw you can f-tilt which will clash with bowsers f-tilt. this will lead to pika moving inches closer to bowser as you both clash f-tilts. when close enuf spot dodge --> rising nair to punish bowsers excitement in your clashing war.)
- 1b. (beware if the bowser is quick enough to change from f-tilt to claw during your war, bowsers claw will get you first setting bowser up for a free side+b.

d-tilt is just not an option for spacing in this situation, however it's not all pointless, i'll explain under aerials. pikas jabs have the same concept. skull bash are you jokin!? thunder is senseless. However, if timed right you can QAC --> uair ---> nair once you cut through bowser and hit the ground.

In addition this is quite a bit for bowser to think and predict so from time to time when you block bowsers claw, roll behind bowser and either:

- hold your shield and punish bowser once he's used up+b (this is risky cause you can get shield poked. DO NOT grab cause up+b will win)
- instantly jump away and air dodge fast fall into shield then grab (cause bowser will try and clip you with up+b then move away for safety)
- rising nair will trade hits with up+b

Ground game: (grabs)

kay you should know bowsers grab release is 10frames less then every character in the game, so im not gonna say never get grabbed cause thats just stupid. but its useful to know if you do get grabbed by bowser he can:

- grab release --> buffered f-tilt
- grab release --> dash grab (infinate)
- grab release --> dash --> side+b
- grab release --> (jab) claw cancle --> buffered side+b
- grab air release --> buffered dash --> fair

so we know he has options, what we need to do tho is predict what type of release bowser wants then try and force the other release. if theres suspended platforms always force air release cause you can get away unpunished from the dash --> fair.
however with ground release prepare to spot dodge --> nair asap or if you see a failed grab punish with your choice.
please pikas only go into bowser unless if you can garrenty a punish because bowser also has his pivot grab which extends his grab range, making it no easier for pikas to punish.

Ground Game (platforms):

If bowser is on a platform above DO NOT think easy hit. he will sit in his shield then jump away. on stages like battlefield, castle seige, lylat cruise, smashville etc. here are options and outcomes underneath bowser:

uair/nair --> if you don't poke him, bowser will catch you with up+b out of his shield
thunder --> stupid option but once bowser falls through platform and punishes, the tunder will hit as his head pokes aboves platform
u-smash --> best option as it pokes well and you can't get punished with up+b

if your on the platform and bowsers underneath, spam auto-cancled dair until you can get away some bowser can't punish you. you actually don't want to be above bowser who has u-smash/u-tilt which you can't punish unless predicted or even side-b which takes half a second to jump to the side of you and execute. if you can at all cost never fall on a platform from being hit if bowsers undeneath you.

aerials (attacks and how to punish):

Bowser shouldn't be joked about in the air. so im just gonna put what works against what:

- fair - try and get above and dair or below with respectable distance and u-smash, if you can't back away from it or air dodge through if you can garrenty you'll fast fall and hit the ground before bowser
- bair - imagine bowsers shape is a moon, avoid the half his back is facing (the lower half semi-spikes so be cautious when air dodging
- uair - executed slow and mostly fast falled so DO NOT air dodge through it, but avoid at all cost unless you can garrenty your dair will touch bowser before he swings his claw
- dair - shield pokes pika fairly well but NEVER spot dodge it, block and grab
- down+b - if your uair is predicted it will cath you so just be cautious when using uair and being near the edge where bowser can punish and ledge-grab. also don't run in or it'll catch you if the bowser wants to be flashy.
- up+b - if bowser uses it far away from the ground, they'll try and clip you then retreat as far as possible so remember to keep at a safe distance
- side+b - if you see bowser about to use this, note where he uses it. the only attacks that will hit bowser without you being sucked into the black hole are u-smash, however uair does the same, but only if your back is facing bowser and he is at the range that the u-smash punishes. if on the ground spot dodge or jump then punish if you predict it. also at the range bowser uses side+b, duck and d-tilt, you'll be unpunished and gain yourself a free hit.

aerials (situations bowser will use): [Edit]

- fair -
- rising fair -->up+b when someone tries to punish
- aerial fair when pika cg near ledge
- when hunting you as an edgeguard
- ledge cancle --> fair when pika is edgehogging
- punishing momentum cancling skull bash
- when pika knocks bowser off a platform above us
- cut through thunder jolts and hit pika
- fast falled from rising side+b

- bair -
- punishing momentum cancling skull bash
- ledge cancle --> reverse bair when pika is edgehogging
- spacing pika to force him into a predicted QA recovery
- when pika knocks bowser off a platform above us
- cut through thunder jolts and hit pika
- fast falled from rising side+b

- uair -
- fast falled from pika aerial recovering
- predicting spot dodging
- ledge cancle --> uair when pika is edgehogging
- when pika knocks bowser off a platform above us
- cut through thunder jolts and hit pika
- fast falled from rising side+b

- dair -
- when bowser predicts a shieldless pika from the air
- cut through thunder jolts and hit pika
- fast falled from rising side+b

- down+b -
- to punish and ledge grab from the air
- punish a dashing pika
- fast falled from rising side+b

- up+b -
- pika tries to punish after being hit by it once before will 'deceivingly' work from 0-35%
- where you attempt a grab
- punish you from a platform instantly after sheilding your attack
- cut through thunder jolts and hit pika
- edgehog to recover and clip you off the edge
- used instantly after falling side+b- side+b - punish aggressive pikas
- save bowser from an edge-guarding pika
- punish a badly aerial spaced thunder
- spammed after side+b
- can be linked to almost anything if missed when hitting the ground

- B -
- cut pikas recovery
- spacing pika at distances longer then bowsers f-tilt

edge-guarding: Pika

okay so you want to edgehog bowser. say you fsmashed bowser away and he wants to get back (still having a jump. here are the options that do work:

- wave - bounce thunder (where thunder goes off the stage)
- when bowsers body is higher then the stage hover underneath bowser (be closer to the stage then him though) then wait for a failed move and punish/second jump + nair/uair
- if bowsers lower then the stage, dair him and your always gonna hit (preferably attempt to stage spike him with it)
- if your above bowser and predict his movement thunder jolt him twice and he wont be able to recover.

Overall: i actually believe this matchup isn't 60-40 in pikas favor but 50-50 or even 45-55 in bowsers favor due to our only advantages being:

- juggling him in the air
- cg from 0-50%
- speed
- bowser can't pass through thunder with air dodge
- kills bowser pretty easily upwards
- (i'm not putting thunder jolt camping cause it actually doesnt help when bowser powershields everyone and forces us to the ledge where he sits at a relatively far distance using B or when we jump bowser u-tilting or shielding our get up attack and punishing).

Bowsers advantages are:
- range in attacks
- power in 10 different kill moves
- speed in executing attacks
- up+b invinsible frames
- bowsers grab release infinate
- side+b spamming
- priority over pikachu's moves
- survives greatly when forced to the right or left death bounderies (180%) with 80% of pikachu's moves
- pikachu's light

if we see pika will probably die to a really good (not great) bowser at like 130% with garrentied stuff like grab release to buffered f-tilt. while for us to rely on u-smash or thunder to kill bowser below 180% would take a lot due to the fact these moves WILL be decayed (staled) as they wud be commonly used in battle stratergy, let alone nair which helps a great deal in here.

Hoe4u says: Pikachu - Bowser match up = 45 - 55

video's against bowser from july gone: (if anyone wants i'll try get some more recent 1's).
[brief sumary of matches] first 2 i get pwned in the face. the next 2 pika finally shows the power ash couldn't give him.

Match 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgRWpQuZ7S0
Match 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV9Dva32e5k
Match 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZJYz04ZdcA
Match 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFun22li088

Pikachu wins by atleast 6:4, but I don't think it's much worse then that.

You sir, are incorrect, but thank you for taking the time to make such a large post.

Firstly Vex you say you don't "think" its much worse. meaning you don't quite know. furthermore you haven't stated evidence as to why i'm incorrect so enlighten me please or what you say is kind of irrelevant, weither your best bowser or not.
i done the long post cause i saw that the matchup was outdated and loads of bowsers metagame is missing, so weither the matchup ratio doesn't change i kinda don't mind, i just felt it'll do good for my fellow pikachu's. so should i be sorry for "such a large post" now?

and Rollerking could you link me to a vid with king kong facing pikachu please, cause i can't find 1.
but in his lastest game on youtube against ally he bowser bombed inches from touching the ground while snake was a good distance away lol.

im just gonna leave the fact here that vex was the best bowser in the US for quite a while. i can understand that you may not know this, since you are from the UK. either way, i have to agree with vex, this is certainly no worse then 60-40 in our favor

Hoe4u said:

Firstly Vex you say you don't "think" its much worse. meaning you don't quite know. furthermore you haven't stated evidence as to why i'm incorrect so enlighten me please or what you say is kind of irrelevant, weither your best bowser or not.
i done the long post cause i saw that the matchup was outdated and loads of bowsers metagame is missing, so weither the matchup ratio doesn't change i kinda don't mind, i just felt it'll do good for my fellow pikachu's. so should i be sorry for "such a large post" now?

and Rollerking could you link me to a vid with king kong facing pikachu please, cause i can't find 1.
but in his lastest game on youtube against ally he bowser bombed inches from touching the ground while snake was a good distance away lol.

Click to expand...

I thanked you for taking the time to make such a large post, however you are still incorrect, but feel free to believe that you are correct.

It really is a good post, but I don't agree with the ratio.

Stealth Raptor said:

im just gonna leave the fact here that vex was the best bowser in the US for quite a while. i can understand that you may not know this, since you are from the UK. either way, i have to agree with vex, this is certainly no worse then 60-40 in our favor

Click to expand...

Thats why i said weither he's the best bowser or not. the uk may be unknown, but our tiny community 'knows' player profiles, if i didnt i would have simply asked.
however simply saying your incorrect without justifying why and showing thats acceptable by a players reputation is pretty silly isnt it. if so is olimar considered above MK on the tier list if brood says so? (sarcasm). you never say a hypothesis without explaining why you think thats correct is all im saying or it becomes irrelevant as it leaves people who want to know oblivious. but this is a match up discussion!?

okay i hate arguments and this is kind of going off topic, so im just gonna leave it at - how you phrased my large post is a way of allowing you to play with words, where it could be seen as sarcasm/a literal thanks, so could you at least try a more mature response please.

thank you Rollerking.