The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

Matt07 · Apr 23, 2009

^ Hmm interesting never knew that, I'm just scared to go offstage against GnW.

Umm...what's the best set-up to stop/counter a f-air offstage from GnW, and I have gotten pwned by it severly too

.

:mad: · Apr 23, 2009

If find his most annoying move to be Dtilt. Much harder to get around than Marth's.

Matador · Apr 23, 2009

Yeah, Dtilt definitely makes landing an Fsmash hard at times. If I recall correctly though, our cape > his Dtilt in range.

I'm seriously thinking about writing a guide on cape. It has too many applications.

DtJ XeroXen · Apr 23, 2009

Go for it, Matador, help people who were like the scrub I used to be. I didn't know caping recoverys would work, because I had never watched videos and I figured it was just like melee(where it didn't change momentum and all) I was such a scrub.

I'm glad I don't have problems with G&W, don't know why though.

Erm, don't get too predictable with the cape, I used to do a ledgehop-cape thing where I'd reverse this one G&W's Fsmash, and he read me and Usmashed, I was very sad. :'(

:mad: · Apr 23, 2009

I go even with most Game and Watches offline, at least in my area. There's just too many. It could be the most in-depth cape guide ever, Matador.

But I think we should START on the Mario boards quiz.

Matador · Apr 23, 2009

Straked said:
But I think we should START on the Mario boards quiz.

Fair enough. Are we still using that Xat page to discuss?

DtJ XeroXen · Apr 23, 2009

I was actually just about to bump that post up saying "I hate you guys."

But this works too.

And yeah, I go even with the G&Ws too, I never really saw it as a disadvantaged matchup until I looked at the boards :D.

Matt07 · Apr 23, 2009

Wow, people still chat on Xat? I totally forget about that place...

Good thing I left 20+ people have the same power as me :laugh:

.

:mad: · Apr 23, 2009

Actually, only me and Fire! went on the xat a few days ago to discuss the video guide. Any time you want to discuss the Quiz, just let us know.

vato_break · Apr 23, 2009

lol gaw is really hard you guys need to easy it with them shrooms.

KirinBlaze · Apr 23, 2009

I go into the Xat to shoo off all the Sonic Mains who linger there sometimes. lol

GnW is gay. I don't play Mario in this match-up. I go Link. Fireball camping is useless, comboing is very difficult since his UpB escapes almost all of our combos and resets the spacing. Bair is very annoying as well as other aerials. His Smashes kill at ungodly %'s, there's no way you're gimping GnW ever, so don't try. The most we can do is space bair's, maybe a few Uair's to try and get some combos and using our awesome jab up close and some Utilts. Bait his aerials and punish the landing lag with a stutter step Fsmash to KO.

65:35 GnW.

HeroMystic · Apr 23, 2009

Matador said:
I'm seriously thinking about writing a guide on cape.

Rawr!

It better not be a carbon copy of mine. >=E

Matador · Apr 24, 2009

HeroMystic said:
Rawr!

It better not be a carbon copy of mine. >=E

If you're thinking that MY guide would resemble yours in ANY form or fashion, even if yours were a mere template for mine...

You'd be absolutely right, I never write guides, lol

cemo · Apr 24, 2009

_kadaj_ said:
I know I'm not a mario main but if G&W is recovering low and you anticipate his up b correctly you can speed hug the ledge and he will land on stage in his sitting animation.

As soon as he lands on stage you can quickly get off the edge and attack with N-air, D-air, or U-air.

I used to play Mario when the game 1st came out XD

If GaW recovers a little higher than that, he'll safely land laglessly on his feet. GaW can actually drop the shoot and footstool you on the edge, rather than take the landing lag as well. (I'm not too good at this though)

<3

I'll try to play against Joel again sometime, last time I played him there was so much stuff I didn't know/do. ):

EDIT: FLUDD the turtle for lulz!

:mad: · Apr 24, 2009

What if the Game and Watch feels remorse for doing the bad things he does and just SD's? Seriously, you guys should start doing that more.

Inferno3044 · Apr 24, 2009

From which direction would be the best way to hit him from and which moves/playstyle would be best to use against him?

jmanxiv · Apr 24, 2009

Game and watch has everything against mario. Mario's only option is jabs

Inferno3044 · Apr 24, 2009

jmanxiv said:
Game and watch has everything against mario. Mario's only option is jabs

Then how the hell do you fight this guy?

HeroMystic · Apr 25, 2009

G&W having everything against Mario is a rather huge exaggeration.

Inferno3044 · Apr 25, 2009

Here's what I see as my conclusion to this matchup:

35:65 or 30:70

G&W is completely anti-Mario due to the fact that he has things that make him anti gimpable, disjointed hitboxes, and his aerials out prioritize Mario's, and his light weight is somewhat made up for because bucket braking will keep him alive for a good while longer. You just have to be a hell of a lot of a better player to beat him. It's like he was made just to beat Mario. He is Mario's hardest matchup with the exception of D3 w/ infinite.

I say we move on to another character. I think next on the list was DK.

DtJ XeroXen · Apr 25, 2009

But he's not Mario's hardest, or second hardest matchup.

He's Mario's third, MK is second, D3's Infinites are first. (Notice how I don't say D3?)

But honestly Lucario == #2 for me. MK == #3 for me.

D3's Infinates == #1 For me. D3 == #Whatever for me.

:mad: · Apr 25, 2009

Wait... you just said D3!

Ismael · Apr 26, 2009

lol, I see what you mean XeroXen. Your saying that D3 isn't hard, just his infinites.

The same can be said for alot of characters having one thing that makes them good, and without it they would drop atleast 2 or 3 teir spots, if not more.

Snake- Tilts
ICs- Chaingrabs
DDD- Chaingrabs
Wolf- Smashes
ZSS- Her Side-B
Olimar- Grabs/upsmash

The list goes on. Some might say Mario- Cape... that might be true. XD

On topic: I think the matchup is about 30-70. :/

DK next. Avoid his SHFL bairs, and be wary of him mindgaming you into his smashes.

:mad: · Apr 26, 2009

Lol, Mario isn't all cape. It has it's uses, but it can't be spammed.
DK next because our good friend hippie suggested him!

Get to it, guys.

hippiedude92 · Apr 26, 2009

I love Straked so much. I approve xD. It was actually close too cuz in my tourney today, he was gonna pick DK but instead went Diddy (thank god)

Trying to keep it step by step, but you'll want to watch how many times you get hit.. you'll die in about 5 hits or so if your not careful... you might be just dying at 70%....

Ismael · Apr 26, 2009

A good DK is a DK with mindgames. Like reverse side-b and fsmashes.

There's about 2 or 3 good DKs that I play in tournaments, and one of them I hang out with and is a great guy. He taught me about SHFL bairing, and spiking intelligintly with fair and dair using DK. He also taught me about timing DK's giant punch charge swings to increase knockback.

A 9 swing giant punch will kill you at 40%...

:mad: · Apr 26, 2009

<333

Alright, Donkey Kong's a beast. He has one of the best Bairs in the game, and one well-rounded ground game. He really shines when it comes to range, his tilts are all good, his only ground move that isn't quite that useful is Upsmash, but it's a killer under platforms. Seeing as how DK has no projectiles, you can spend a good deal of this match camping, but don't count on it too much. His Fsmash and Dsmash can kill fairly early, so avoid getting too close. Being heavy, he's one of the easiest for Mario to combo, if the DK doesn't react fast enough, so use that to your advantage. And you'll have an easier time offstage, seeing as how he has a predictable recovery. One cape and there goes a stock, so do anything to force his recovery. Oh, and don't get stage spiked, don't get baired, and don't get thrown.

55:45, arguable for 60:40 Donkey Kong. Not too hard of a match if you have enough experience.

A2ZOMG · Apr 26, 2009

Donkey Kong is a character that does a lot of damage if he can mindgame you. BUT, he isn't very safe on block.

Almost everything he does can be easily punished in some way. Think of DK like Marth, except he isn't as safe as Marth in general, but better in terms of raw damage and knockback. In general if you play very safe against him and know how to do stuff like PS his slower attacks like Giant Punch and Headbutt on reaction, you should do really well in this matchup. Also watch out for ground pound which is one of his better moves due to being pretty safe on shields. Be ready to shieldgrab or Up-B against his Up-B...

And you have combos on him, Cape ***** his recovery, fireballs get him to approach...

All in all it's a pretty neutral matchup. The main problem you should be having against DK is mainly matchup inexperience, as he's not a very common character. If you are unprepared for him, he can really hurt you a lot, but he's also at the same time one of those characters where you'll find answers to his strategies when you become familiar with them.

Ismael · Apr 26, 2009

DK's bair eats through fireballs, allowing him to easily SHFL bair right through your fireball camping, and get to you...

And DK controls the direction of his upb, so an expert DK knows to point in the opposite direction after getting caped, making him use what little of his upb he has left and come right back, like a boomerang, allowing him to still make it back to the stage. So not only will you have to cape twice alot of the time, but the spacing you need to land the cape while avoiding the reach of his spinning arms is strict.

Reverse giant punches are dangerous if you aren't careful, since they can do it at any time after a bair or pretty much anything. And 8 or 9 swing charged punches will kill you at any time when your in moderate percentages, which you'll be in most of the time since DK's attacks do great damage.

DK's ground pound (down-b) will break your shield easily, and they like to use d-tilts to make you back off when your putting on the pressure (and the added chance that you might trip and they get a chance to attack is also a plus).

When your above him, an up smash will do great damage and can KO at low percentages. They usually do this when your on a platform, which they usually wait for a second, then when you try to air dodge or something because you think you see it coming, you get punished. The ground and platforms cancel air dodges, so airdodging before you hit the ground defeats the purpose of dodging, lol. But if there isn't a platform, they'll try to pull a sliding up-smash, hoping you won't see it coming. Oh, and DK's u-air is fast and strong, just like his bair, a laggy yet huge and strong fair, a quick dair spike, and an ok nair give DK a pretty good air game. So he DOES have the options to combo break out of our uairs combos if given even the slightest chance.

Getting stuck under the bottom floor of Luigi's Mansion by DK's ground pound... really sucks.

SkylerOcon · Apr 26, 2009

First thing that should be noted in this match-up is that DK's godly bair is not only a pain to get through because it is an awesome move, it also eats our fireballs. Lame.

Outside of looking out for that, this is a straitforward match-up. Just go for the combos (utilt/uair/dthrow/dair combos are the easiest to pull off in this match-up, as with nearly all other match-ups) and abuse your jab. Avoid the Bair because I think it pretty much ***** Mario's aerials entirely.

His upspecial is easily caped, so you shouldn't have to worry about that, so this is a big plus for Mario. Not to mention that your edgeguard-tastic Bair helps tons with your off-stage game (yeah! That's right! Our BAir is hella sexy too!).

I'd say 60-40, maybe 55-45 in Mario's favor.

EDIT: Forgot something important. Up smash is amazing in this match. Use it a lot.

vato_break · Apr 26, 2009

dk will **** you on luigi's.

:mad: · Apr 26, 2009

Correction: DK will **** Vato on Luigi's, since he can't seem to beat DK.

Ismael · Apr 26, 2009

Umm, Skyler, have you ever fought a good DK?

SkylerOcon said:
His upspecial is easily caped

No, it isn't.

SkylerOcon said:
I'd say 60-40, maybe 55-45 in Mario's favor.

Waaaaay wrong.

Other than that, everything you stated I already said. XD

And A2Z, WE are even worse when he blocks us because he has decent grab range, and he can avoid and shieldgrab almost everything thrown at him. And other than his fair, his aireals aren't very laggy.

:mad: · Apr 26, 2009

Skyler's been using too much Meta Knight and Falco. :psycho:

A2ZOMG · Apr 26, 2009

Ismael said:
No, it isn't.

You can hit his hand easily. It's not hard to cape his Up-special as long as you have decent spacing.

And A2Z, WE are even worse when he blocks us because he has decent grab range, and he can avoid and shieldgrab almost everything thrown at him. And other than his fair, his aireals aren't very laggy.

You have SH D-air on his shield, and he can do little to counter this especially since it has zero ending lag and cancels into a U-air or N-air really close to the ground.

His B-air has a -20 frame advantage, meaning Up-smash out of shield, B-air out of shield, U-tilt out of shield, and more is fast enough to hit him. If he commits to a second attack, F-smash out of shield is technically fast enough to hit him.

His u-air and D-air are also fairly laggy upon landing. His F-air and D-air are slow enough for a PS on reaction.

Ismael · Apr 26, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
You can hit his hand easily. It's not hard to cape his Up-special as long as you have decent spacing.

No, if he just randomly upb to recover, then yes, he's easy to cape. But a good DK will time it low, or right in front of you. And if you space yourself back to time the cape, he'll just spin back a little for the ledge, or he won't even leave the stage. If he does it too close, don't bother trying to, since the cape has a slight startup, and DK's upb in the air has like, no startup. (please don't come back and flame me with frame data, lol) Besides, I didn't say it was impossible, just that it isn't "easy".

A2ZOMG said:
You have SH D-air on his shield, and he can do little to counter this especially since it has zero ending lag and cancels into a U-air or N-air really close to the ground.

Good point. But, DKs usually keep their shield at a pretty decent size to avoid both the dair, then the follow up. And SHing won't help you land it more, lol. You can't dair a shield the second they shield, you just have to guess their habits, and hope your right. (Which is not good in a matchup thread since it's basically only for facts).

A2ZOMG said:
His B-air has a -20 frame advantage, meaning Up-smash out of shield, B-air out of shield, U-tilt out of shield, and more is fast enough to hit him. If he commits to a second attack, F-smash out of shield is technically fast enough to hit him.

Another unneeded argument. I never said that Mario dosn't have shield options, I just said that DK also does.

A2ZOMG · Apr 26, 2009

Mario is better out of shield IMO. If only slightly.

Slightly faster mixups in general.

Ismael · Apr 26, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
Mario is better out of shield IMO. If only slightly.

Slightly faster mixups in general.

Your right, Mario does have better, I just exaggerated a little do to my frustration with getting shield grabbed...

A2ZOMG · Apr 26, 2009

Yeah, that is why you don't spam SH double B-airs against DK, I'll give you that...

Ismael · Apr 26, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
Yeah, that is why you don't spam SH double B-airs against DK, I'll give you that...

It's not really bairs, but mostly uairs and nairs. And it's not just aireals, but all kinds of things. I gotta learn to dair and keep myslef spaced from the shields.

It's about 55-45 DK, to 50-50 ('cause the DKs haven't came in here and we might of missed some of DK's other strong points.) 50-60 in DK's favor looks like a bit too much.

Anyway, we still need members such as Matador to confirm some things, too. I gave most of my unput on this matchup, so I don't really have anything else to add.

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