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ROB OFFICIAL MATCHUP DISCUSSION: Wario (rediscuss)

Syde7

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So, there has been a rise in the number of Wario mains lately due to the hub-ub that he supposedly goes even (or at least gets ***** less hard) with MK. That being the case, and the fact that there wasn't too much discussion on him a few weeks back, we are rediscussing him this week along with Olimar.


I would like to have a bit more "order" to the discussions from now on (as it makes it easier on me whenever I try to compile them into synopses). Please post in the following "format" (or at least a reasonable facsimile of)



ROB's Advantages:

ROB's Disadvantages:

Opponent's Advantages:

Opponent's Disadvantages:

What ROB should try to do:

How to do it:

How opponent can stop it:

What Opponent should be trying to do:

How they'll do it:

How ROB can stop it:

Counterpicks (what ROB should pick)
Bans (what ROB should ban 1 via stage strike, 1 via personal ban)
Preferred Neutral (what ROB wants)

Ratio:

This may look lengthy, but- it shouldnt be that hard as the +/- for each character is just more or less a list.


Gogogogogogo!
 

Syde7

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Too much to type :p, just look at my guide vs ROB.

Do you mind giving a link? I looked over on you guys' boards 3-5 times in the matchup thread, and couldn't really find anything. Of course, I could be wrong & gotten it confused with another char's board(as I look through ALL the boards in writing our matchup synopses). I'll give it another whirl tho. Thanks a ton for poppin' over. :)
 

TEECO

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I know nothing of this matchup.
e___e;

The few times i've faught a Wario, the match seemed pretty even to me, I must say.
 

omegawhitemage

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I'm gunna ask blackmage to write up a bit about how I play rob against him and hopefully it'll help out.
 

Mr.E

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Terrible synopsis. Well, everybody out-ranges Wario so there's not much to say in that regard, but suffice to say that ROB can effectively zone Wario in the air. When Wario gets above ROB, he can just sweep across space with UAir and Wario loses if he challenges. If Wario tries to come in at more of an angle, ROB's FAir beats him. Where Wario is more likely to win is by baiting ROB to do the wrong ground attack and punishing him for whiffing. That said, ROB's FTilt covers a whole lot of range and FSmash has a rather high hitbox, perfect for covering that 45-degree area. Wario doesn't just waddle over and start UAir juggling ROB out of nowhere, he needs to work pretty hard at getting inside. Marth with projectiles, bub.

Landing the Waft on... a powershield? Maybe if he's trying to land on Wario's head with it. NAir auto-cancels, there's no time to short hop at him and Waft if he lands with it at Wario's side. Perhaps during recovery? ROB can't air dodge during his Up-B. Everyone knows this. Who cares? ROB just recovers low and there's nothing Wario can do about it because ROB's aerials completely overpower Wario, no exposing his blind spot required. Unless the Waft shoots Wario downward, it isn't hitting then either. No, it's no easier to land the Waft on ROB than it is most other characters.

With regard to your grab release blurb, ROB has a guaranteed USmash on Wario from a ground release to the air, which kills at ~100%. (NAir is too slow. FAir should work and FSmash or BAir might also work, though I've never tested it, but USmash is the universally better move to hit.) However, you should note that ROB does not force an aerial release on Wario. Don't struggle too much, take an extra couple pummels if you must to avoid accidentally breaking with a jump input and getting yourself killed. :/

As far as the re-discussion goes, I think I'll just reiterate the smart-*** one-liner I used above. "Marth with projectiles, bub." It's not quite that simple, this match-up is probably a little easier for Wario since ROB simply doesn't cover as much space with his attacks as Marth does with his sweeping swaths, but I'd say it still leans in ROB's favor a bit.
 

JCaesar

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So Wario's metagame has changed a good bit since we last discussed this matchup. Now they camp for farts. I say let them. Even if they manage to avoid all your projectiles for a minute and a half, they still have to approach eventually, and ROB has the speed and range to make it very difficult. And if you grab them at 100% and they accidentally hit the buttons a few times, it's a stock.

I've always thought this matchup was at least 60:40 ROB and my opinion on it hasn't changed a bit. Every Wario I've played in tourney has had to use another character against me.
 

PhantomX

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When Wario gets above ROB, he can just sweep across space with UAir and Wario loses if he challenges.
Smash DI, easy fart, especially if offstage b/c then you HAVE to up b again. Also, we're Wario, we can chase you into the blast zone for farts if we want.


If Wario tries to come in at more of an angle, ROB's FAir beats him.
While this is a great spacing tool, if you're just brickwalling we're not going to get hit by it.

Where Wario is more likely to win is by baiting ROB to do the wrong ground attack and punishing him for whiffing. That said, ROB's FTilt covers a whole lot of range and FSmash has a rather high hitbox, perfect for covering that 45-degree area. Wario doesn't just waddle over and start UAir juggling ROB out of nowhere, he needs to work pretty hard at getting inside. Marth with projectiles, bub.
UpAir juggling isn't even that effective against smart ROBs, it's all about the dair poking and then bites, getting them offstage, and then wafting.

Landing the Waft on... a powershield? Maybe if he's trying to land on Wario's head with it. NAir auto-cancels, there's no time to short hop at him and Waft if he lands with it at Wario's side.
If you naired his shield and landed next to him, you're in fart range, no jumping required.

Perhaps during recovery? ROB can't air dodge during his Up-B. Everyone knows this. Who cares? ROB just recovers low and there's nothing Wario can do about it because ROB's aerials completely overpower Wario, no exposing his blind spot required. Unless the Waft shoots Wario downward, it isn't hitting then either. No, it's no easier to land the Waft on ROB than it is most other characters.
Way too easy to both chase low and bait an upair, and then we hit you with the side hitbox of waft, or we smash DI and THEN hit you with waft. Hitting you offstage with fart is child's play, believe me. I got Light and Sudai with it a bunch of times, even though they both claimed it would be easy to avoid, lol.

With regard to your grab release blurb, ROB has a guaranteed USmash on Wario from a ground release to the air, which kills at ~100%. (NAir is too slow. FAir should work and FSmash or BAir might also work, though I've never tested it, but USmash is the universally better move to hit.) However, you should note that ROB does not force an aerial release on Wario. Don't struggle too much, take an extra couple pummels if you must to avoid accidentally breaking with a jump input and getting yourself killed. :/
Why even bring up something that will only hit mediocre Wario players? That doesn't affect matchups at all.

As far as the re-discussion goes, I think I'll just reiterate the smart-*** one-liner I used above. "Marth with projectiles, bub." It's not quite that simple, this match-up is probably a little easier for Wario since ROB simply doesn't cover as much space with his attacks as Marth does with his sweeping swaths, but I'd say it still leans in ROB's favor a bit.
It's 50:50 or slight advantage Wario. Your best bet is to stay as far away from the edges as possible and to find some nice height platforms to hide under so you can safely tilt space, otherwise you're boned.


You can get at me at Apex, JCeasar.
 

Mr.E

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Moot point, Wario is relatively too maneuverable for ROB to realistically stop him from "camping for farts." It doesn't change that Wario only gets to use the Waft once a minute at best, realistically 3-4 times a match. It doesn't make it any easier to land. He still has to get inside ROB's range to rack up enough damage for it to kill. A full Waft is even less dangerous than a "half" charge since it loses a lot of knockback once it ticks over. (Highly damaging, yes, but merely average killing power!)

Oh dear, somebody snuck in a response before me. Gimme a sec for an edit...

Smash DI, easy fart, especially if offstage b/c then you HAVE to up b again. Also, we're Wario, we can chase you into the blast zone for farts if we want.
Don't get me wrong, Wario can get well out there, but he's not very effective at edgeguarding ROB. Wario has to use his Bike Jump to get very far off-stage, putting him too high up to challenge ROB recovering below stage level.

While this is a great spacing tool, if you're just brickwalling we're not going to get hit by it.
Yes, it's a brick wall, but it's an effective brick wall. It's not all that different than Marth spacing Wario away, which the above linked match-up thread claims is a very poor fight for Wario. ROB's attacks don't sweep across as much space as Marth's, so it should be a little easier to get inside, but he has all the range to still make it tough. But unlike Marth, ROB forces Wario to stay close to avoid giving up free damage to projectiles.

UpAir juggling isn't even that effective against smart ROBs, it's all about the dair poking and then bites, getting them offstage, and then wafting.
Wario has an amazing shield pressure game. Where it falls apart is that ROB is not forced to sit in his shield against Wario, his attacks are fast enough to contend directly with Wario. (Unlike Snake, for example, who doesn't have fast frontal aerials to keep Wario out.) Wario's DAir is beaten by ROB's UTilt and UAir. As he drifts to the side, he has to contend with ROB's FAir or his forward ground attacks. ROB never has to sit in his shield and allow Wario to pressure him, it's clear that ROB is at the advantage here.

If you naired his shield and landed next to him, you're in fart range, no jumping required.
No, no he isn't. Wario has to practically be touching the opponent for the Waft to land. Its range is downright horrible and I am not convinced that it can punish much of anything OoS. :rolleyes: Properly spaced, of course. ROB's NAir certainly has that range, is entirely disjointed, and autocancels to leave Wario no space to punish afterward. Nonetheless, moot point since ROB shouldn't be NAiring his shield anyway.

Blagh blagh blagh, more junk about fart...

Your best bet is to... find some nice height platforms to hide under so you can safely tilt space...
See, now we all agree on something. :)
 

PhantomX

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Wario's Waft has a hugely deceptive range. It's hard to believe until you've been hit by it, lol... just giving you fair warning.

Also, Marth is like 55:45, and he has way more options to brickwall than ROB. GW has the ultimate brickwall against Wario (his NAIR), and that matchup is even.

Also, there's a misconception that Wario does not do well edgeguarding people when this is not the case. Intelligent use of ledge invincibility frames gives him the ability to edgeguard even the likes of MK; particularly Wario's bair is nasty when invincible. Wario can do amazing offstage against ROB if he's in any position that isn't below. If we fall below you we pretty much lose a stock.

Also, when you're playing against a defensive character, Wario's Wafts become even more pivotal. You can camp/hide under the platforms, but you're risking Wario building up his most efficient killer. Also, being a heavy, we can get you up to around 47 with a dair > nair > nair > fsmash, or about 38 with Dair > dair > upair. Those are kill percentages if we waft you offstage with a half waft.
 

Mr.E

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Of course, as I said before, there's no stopping Wario from camping for a fart. He has, bar none, the best aerial control in the game and ROB isn't particularly fast to begin with. :/ ROB isn't going to aggressively pursue Wario. We just take comfort in the fact that it isn't easy to land, as it has almost no horizontal range, and won't be used more than 3-4 times a match.

The only thing deceptive about the Waft's range is that it's deceptively bad. Not deceptively bad like ROB's FSmash, deceptively bad like (the reverse of) Snake's tilts.
 

JCaesar

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You can get at me at Apex, JCeasar.
Sorry, I don't play Brawl anymore. I could give you some friendlies on Sunday if you want, but I'm not touching Brawl on Saturday. I don't wanna screw myself up before the Brawl+ tourney Saturday night.
 

Syde7

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Ive been playing some more Warios as of late so as teo get better familiar with the matchup. All in all, I think its somewhere around even and leans a smidge in Wario's favor.

Depending on when/where Wario jumps (assuming out of range of F-tilt), he can airdodge+jump at the same time to get through the laser. After he gets past the maximum angle (approx 45 degrees) of the laser, its useless to use it from the ground, and Wario will know this. Sure, you can SH angle it up, or FJ angle it up, and that might work. But, odds are the Wario will airdodge through that as well, and if he is close enough can poke you with an F-air in the cool down, and drift back again.

TBH, the gyro is almost useless in this matchup (aside from shooting it where Wario will land) unless you get it onto the stage and into your hand so as to move around quickly to set yourself up favorably. This is one time where I find that the reverse up+B (with momentum change) can be beneficial, as well as glide-toss->up+B. Useful, simply because it adds speed and a bit of surprise. Is it useful enough to single-handedly win the matchup? No. Is it useful to get an N-air or B-air in for a KO? Yes, once or twice.

As phantomX said, the goal of wario is to def shield poke with D-air, which pops you up and sets you up for all kinds of ****. More D-airs, a chomp, waft if its closer to the edge of the stage (either from the side or above depending on charged time), N-air while following you to finish with an F-smash, etc.

Chomp ruins ROBs shield game (which isnt great either). If you react instinctively to things OoS, he can space/drift his shielded aerials away, and land in a chomp just within range and wreck whatever you were about to do. Jab->Chomp works at low-lowmid percents if first jab hits, all percents if you stay in your shield after shielding the first jab.

To surmise thus far: Your laser and gyro have been diminished in their effectiveness to the tune of about 30-40%. What little options you had out of your shield have been cut down tremendously.

ROB can use his F-tilt to mess Wario's approach up at mid-range and close-range, providing he is either ascending, or descending with his jump and didn't immediately airdodge as he jumped. But, relying on that can get you hurt just as bad. If he airdodged as he jumped, your open for ****. If he FJ'd, he can land on the top of you with a D-air to eat at your shield and probably poke it, or descend on you with a chomp. If he SH it, he can wind up behind you for a free grab, F-smash, chomp, maybe an F-tilt of his own, and a waft. If you get predictable with the F-tilt its even more bad news as Wario can take advantage of the predictability to the max via methods listed above.

Result? ROBs F-tilt is decreased in effectiveness while only offering decent ( somewhat predictable ) protection.

Properly spaced/timed F-airs beats Wario in the air, but as was mentioned before, if you're just throwing them out as a brickwall, they can be navigated around/through/etch and punished. Same with your U-airs, as they definately can (alternatively) waft out of/between them.

Your U-tilt beats out the D-air (I think...) providing you time it right. But, with all the moving in and out, up and down, and airdodges, its hard as hell to time it so it hits when you want it, where you want it.

TBH, despite the criticism that it received when the video was posted, the video of Bombsoldiers ROB using a **** ton of B-airs seems a bit more effective in practice than on paper. Mixing N-airs with it at varying positions (like having your back to Wario, for example), and a few f-airs to keep things fresh works. Is it laggy, yes? But, the hitboxes are so large/lingering that unless 1) You didn't drift them away, 2) The Wario didn't drift away, 3) Wario didn't airdodge- they should all hit. Does this decay them, and make a hard to kill Wario, even harder? Yes.

However, you can use whatever grabs you land to pummel Wario to refresh them, as *on average* Wario will be staying in grabs longer than most. Unless the Wario is at kill percents, go for the D-throw, F-throw, or U-throw to save your B-throw.

Why? Because I find that B-throw is a pretty good way to kill if its fresh. Let wario push you to the edge of the stage when he's at higher percents, grab, and fresh b-throw. If you do it immediately instead of pummeling (especially if you have been pummeling out of every other grab), you can throw off his DI and increase your chance at a kill.

Once he is off the stage, you can edgeguard him. He isnt the HARDEST char to edgeguard, but he is far from the easiest. He can utilize his aerial mobility to get through gyros/lasers/f-airs and the like, although he should probably get hit by about 2/3 of what you do. Make him use his bike farther off the stage & below it by robbing him of a double jump, as that's the "critical moment" that you have to end the stock. Knock him off immediately, or soon after and force him to use his horrendous up+B. Be warned that he can recover with bike from HIGH up, and probably will have gotten above/behind you if you were over-aggressive and will be able to beat you back to the stage.

Speaking of that, Wario CAN edgeguard. Jumping out to poke with F-airs in our start up (and re-startup) of up+B. Jump-->F-air-->DJ-->N-air works great for him also if you fall into it. You're more susceptible to wafts, as he can airdodge through whatever and space it all so he comes out of the airdodge next to/below you, and hit with the waft (and get whatever it is; saf or invinc.) before you can do anything. He can chase you to the high corners with his jumps and bike, and should be able to drift back down to the stage safely. If he does that though, you DO have the chance to get a rising N-air on him for a KO.

And, his waft has VERRRRRY deceptive range. Watch out for him fartng on the bike, balloons, shyguys, etc. to extend the hitbox.

If he is camping for the fart, it should be obvious. Rack up whatever damage you can with your projectiles, be careful when he is close and dont feck up shieldgrabs or get shieldpoked as they basically guarantee a waft.

The important thing is to stay well ahead in the percent race, that way you can quickly get a KO in the event you get wafted early. Deal as much damage as you can while taking as little as you can in the time window he is building his fart. If you are ahead, or close to KO percent and see him change hs playstyle to a much more "air campy" one... gtfo of there, away from him, as its harder to kill with a fully charged fart (due to the positioning factor) than a half-waft or whatev it is, so keeping away long enough for the narrow window to pass will help you out greatly.
 

TEECO

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I'll give it a try. I took a few subjects out..

ROB's Advantages:
-Projectiles
-Recovery/Off stage game
-Out ranges Wario


ROB's Disadvantages:
-Blind spot under ROB
-Gets comboed easily
-Can have a hard time killing
-Big target for the Waft
-The bite can get ROB good due to his size


What ROB should try to do:
Try to keep the spacing within Ftilt range when NOT camping or off stage.
Avoid dairs and grabs at all cost because they can set up into more Dairs, Nairs, or bites.
Get wario off stage. One wrong move on his part and he's done for.


Counterpicks: Luigis Mansion, Jungle Japes
Bans: Brinstar, Norfair
Preferred Neutral: Final Destination
 

Syde7

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oh... one mroe thing. Even though most decent warios won't get grab-released... there's no harm in landing your first/second grab at KO percents and holding them in it. If they fall for it, you get a stock and they (may) have learned their lesson. If not, your no worse off than what you wereand your KO moves will be refreshed slightly. Again, don't depend on it- but hey, there's nothing wrong with trying it ONCE.
 

JCaesar

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Ive been playing some more Warios as of late so as teo get better familiar with the matchup. All in all, I think its somewhere around even and leans a smidge in Wario's favor.

Depending on when/where Wario jumps (assuming out of range of F-tilt), he can airdodge+jump at the same time to get through the laser. After he gets past the maximum angle (approx 45 degrees) of the laser, its useless to use it from the ground, and Wario will know this. Sure, you can SH angle it up, or FJ angle it up, and that might work. But, odds are the Wario will airdodge through that as well, and if he is close enough can poke you with an F-air in the cool down, and drift back again.

TBH, the gyro is almost useless in this matchup (aside from shooting it where Wario will land) unless you get it onto the stage and into your hand so as to move around quickly to set yourself up favorably. This is one time where I find that the reverse up+B (with momentum change) can be beneficial, as well as glide-toss->up+B. Useful, simply because it adds speed and a bit of surprise. Is it useful enough to single-handedly win the matchup? No. Is it useful to get an N-air or B-air in for a KO? Yes, once or twice.

As phantomX said, the goal of wario is to def shield poke with D-air, which pops you up and sets you up for all kinds of ****. More D-airs, a chomp, waft if its closer to the edge of the stage (either from the side or above depending on charged time), N-air while following you to finish with an F-smash, etc.

Chomp ruins ROBs shield game (which isnt great either). If you react instinctively to things OoS, he can space/drift his shielded aerials away, and land in a chomp just within range and wreck whatever you were about to do. Jab->Chomp works at low-lowmid percents if first jab hits, all percents if you stay in your shield after shielding the first jab.

To surmise thus far: Your laser and gyro have been diminished in their effectiveness to the tune of about 30-40%. What little options you had out of your shield have been cut down tremendously.
Just wanna throw this in here: You shouldn't be trying to shield and punish Wario's approaches, you should be trying to beat his approaches, with moves like ftilt, utilt, RARed bairs, and retreating fairs, that Wario doesn't have a good answer for. And never use projectiles when he's any closer than 3 ftilt lengths.
 

Syde7

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Good call, JC. I just wanted to illustrate those points to show that Wario is capable of wrecking anything from your shield (well, the shield portions anyway)-- hence you have to avoid that "panic...ZOMGSHIELD" reaction

On the subject of U-tilt, I think I mentioned that its an option, but it feels really hard to hit with consistently due to all the movement from Wario + the fact its relatively slow + it has an almost strictly vertical attack range.

And, same with F-tilt. if the Wario knows you are using the F-tilt as an anti-approach, he can get around it easier than most characters. RAR'd B-air is definately viable as it auto-spaces and cancels. And, mixing in all three (U tilt, F-tilt, RAR B-air) is a good anti-approach, but they don't BREAK his approach game like they can other chars.

I guess personally, I feel more comfortable moving around and biding my time against Wario. Since he excels in baiting and punishing, if you don't give him anything to bait/punish, you neutralize a lot of it. Granted, you limit your options and drag the match out (which can be bad if he's camping for farts), but I feel that rushing it will get you *****. You'll get your opportunities, no use forcing them (either your approach or anti-approach).

But, still a great observation JC and I agree to an extent.
 

HugS™

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I don't know where this talk of edgeguarding comes from. All Wario has to do is DI up for any side KO attempts, float downward towards the stage, then use his bike, get off, and he's already back, with an extra jump. All this while being at a height that is unreachable by ROB.

There's really no edgeguarding Wario unless he DI's very poorly, wastes his jump, AND doesn't have a waft going.
 

Syde7

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I don't know where this talk of edgeguarding comes from. All Wario has to do is DI up for any side KO attempts, float downward towards the stage, then use his bike, get off, and he's already back, with an extra jump. All this while being at a height that is unreachable by ROB.

There's really no edgeguarding Wario unless he DI's very poorly, wastes his jump, AND doesn't have a waft going.
I agree with your statement, and even mentioned that in my analysis of the matchup (though not nearly as adequately as you just now;

Be warned that he can recover with bike from HIGH up, and probably will have gotten above/behind you if you were over-aggressive and will be able to beat you back to the stage.
but think that we're just looking at two different scenarios. It appears you're looking at it from "He's at a high percent, I didn't KO him, but-- maybe I can edgeguard" or a "He's SOOO close to the edge... edgeguarding... GOGOGOGOGO!" whereas I'm looking at it from "Ok, this move WONT KO him, or even close, but it should put him, even with DI, at a range/location that edgeguarding is easier".

I don't think the edgeguard attempt is there to "cover" a botched KO at higher percents. I think most of those speaking (well, I can only speak for myself, really) was talking about the 60-110 percent range; where even fresh KO moves *won't* KO, but they put him offstage- and percents even lower than that.

Scenario 1: You (insert move here; F-smash, N- or B-air) at percentages 60-110 or whatever from the middle area end of the stage. The move will have less knockback, which will cause the Wario, even with DI'ing up to wind up at a location closer than if the percentage were 120+ and he did the same thing. If he immediately uses his bike, he should be within the 45 degree angle for a laser to knock him off of it- forcing him to use his second jump. If he jumps up, jump with him, and snipe him as he uses the bike. Jumping with him keeps him from increasing the angle to that which is outside of your laser range.

Scenario 2: You (insert move here; F-smash, N- or B-air) at percentages 60-110 or whatever from the near end of the stage. In this scenario, the proximity to the edge compensates for the lack of knockback, and can lead to the scenario you described. But, if you take this into account, I would imagine that DJ-->up+B-->stall will put you at a favorable angle, allowing you to stall to force his hand. This particular scenario was what I had in mind in the snippet I quoted from my earlier post; stalling and forcing his hand is being NOT overly aggressive, so as to prevent said events.


In terms of the waft, if he has one going- and the ROB player can force him to waste it... I'd consider that a small victory. In that scenario, the ROB player has 1) Tacked on some damage, 2) if the damage is miniscule, then you have Wario in a less than desirable position, and 3) (most importantly), you force him to restart his waft count, which means you can live that much longer, and tack on that much more damage.

Like I said, I agree with your statement 100%, when it comes to near KO percentages, where KO opportunities were flubbed bc of a move being stale/excellent DI/etc. But, realizing the situation as soon as possible, and taking action doesn't make it seem as futile (pardon the pun =P) as you make it out to be.
 

Mag!c

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I believe ROB is disadvantaged in this matchup because of the sheer mobility that Wario has. A lot of defensive punishes are ruined by Wario's chomp, and failing to defend will result in being put in a very bad zone.
 

Deadweight

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
710
Location
Tally FL
Ok....
Ive been getting different answers to this question and this would be the place to ask it.
I grab wario.
SOMETIMES he air releases and i can get a hyphen in.
OTHER TIMES he ground releases and I eat a waft.
I've been told Yoshi's can induce air releases due to its terrain as can the wario imputing a jump when trying to break free.
I;ve been told that he air releases when grabbed out of the air, and ground releases when grabbed on the ground....
What's the truth behind the air release factors?
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
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If the characters feet aren't touching the ground and you're not hitting them when they're released, it's an air release.

Otherwise, ground.
 

Sudai

Stuff here
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
7,026
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
If Wario's feet are off the ground, he will air release. If his feet are on the ground, it gets tricky. If nothing is pressed, it's a forced ground break. If he presses a jump option, he is forced into air break. If you're jabbing during the grab release, it's a forced ground break. Soooo, don't bother grab releasing unless you hear the Wario mashing (even then they don't have to press a jump button) or his feet are off the ground.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
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while wario is mashing out if he hits x y or up (even with tap jump off) even once, it will make him air release on flat ground, providing u arent grab attacking him

note, this is very hard for wario to do consistently lol. a lot of pros mess up atleast once per match.

low percents uair
high percents usmash

if the ground release u might be able to get a dtilt, i forget. if not, roll away so u dont get hit
 

HugS™

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
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DBR
My suggestion is to condition the wario to break out of grabs by pummeling then immediately throwing him.

Pummel once or twice, then throw. Rinse and repeat.

They will be conditioned to attempt to break out to avoid the throw. Save the grab release for the very last stock at high percentage, where it would count to grab release him into the air. At least against the very good Warios.

Or maybe save it for when you're gaining a major deficit and you need to rid him of his stock quickly. Like when he's at 110% and you're at 40% on your next stock, possibly out of KO moves as well.

But always try it during KO percentages, don't waste it @ low percentages.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
24,416
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Philadelphia
using it at low percents can help though, GR uair can do up to 26% iirc if u get all hits. on average youl do more like 22-24, which is still pretty freicken amazing.

it gets wario damaged fast to get him offstage early to edgeguard him.

dont edgeguard wario by following him, but by following above him. as soon as i get him off the stage, i follow where he is but stay much higher. this works best at mid-high percents, like 60-100 instead of really high, around 130+ or so but it still works, because at that point he can DI up and be so high up as hugs said that you rly cant catch him.

all of warios recovery moves give him a decent vertical boost upwards that he can't avoid. just learn the spacing and keep it right. if he pulls a bike and pops up, fair him immediately. if he wafts, only the large one you have to worry about, which you can just fair him, and you wont be in the main blast zone or super armor time since ur not next to him, but above him (and slightly closer to the stage so you can get room to fair). his haft will only be used as recovery as a last ditch effort if the bike fails rly, since it doesnt help too much, and its his best kill move he is wasting.

if wario goes low, which he is practically made to, relying on double jump, upB, or haft, then just fast fall and fair dair nair or bair depending on ur location compared to him. double jump upB and haft all dont sweetspot, and is easy to hit him out of
 
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