Falcon Moveset Discussion: summaries coming soon

smashkng · Apr 29, 2009

Escape hitstun with aerial and Falcon Kick can make CF survive at insanely high percentages, I tried and it worked, the same goes to Wizard Kick, it's similar to Bucket Braking of Mr.G&W only that use Falcon Kick as many times until the knockback is over (usually 1 time is enough).

t3h n00b · Apr 29, 2009

smashkng said:
Escape hitstun with aerial and Falcon Kick can make CF survive at insanely high percentages, I tried and it worked, the same goes to Wizard Kick, it's similar to Bucket Braking of Mr.G&W only that use Falcon Kick as many times until the knockback is over (usually 1 time is enough).

That makes absolutely no sense. Only three specials can halt momentum- G&W's bucket, Yoshi's Egg Roll, and DK's upB move. Also, if Falcon Kick did stop momentum, there is no way it would need to be used twice to fully stop momentum, besides the fact that if you use Falcon Kick twice offstage you probably can't recover.

smashkng · Apr 29, 2009

t3h n00b said:
That makes absolutely no sense. Only three specials can halt momentum- G&W's bucket, Yoshi's Egg Roll, and DK's upB move. Also, if Falcon Kick did stop momentum, there is no way it would need to be used twice to fully stop momentum, besides the fact that if you use Falcon Kick twice offstage you probably can't recover.

Falcon/Wizard Kick doesn't completely stop knockback . When used while using it you freely move down but when end CF continue flying, but it makes waste distance of knockback, that's why I mean Falcon/Wizard Kick twice. It's useful when vertical or diagonal knockback to use it more than 1 time.

t3h n00b · Apr 29, 2009

The knockback that Falcon Kick "stops" is just the decrease in momentum. You can recover that way if you get hit diagonally, I guess, but Falcon Kick will never save you when you'd otherwise hit a blastline, unless you did it after momentum canceling, and then a jump would be better.

Player-3 · Apr 29, 2009

t3h n00b said:
The knockback that Falcon Kick "stops" is just the decrease in momentum. You can recover that way if you get hit diagonally, I guess, but Falcon Kick will never save you when you'd otherwise hit a blastline, unless you did it after momentum canceling, and then a jump would be better.

depending on when/where and if your facing falco and his lazo0rs

LuLLo · May 1, 2009

The only time I use FK is when I'm really high above the abyss and want to avoid nasty R.O.B.zz chasing me, other than that, this move is ballz.

_Tiamat_ · May 3, 2009

I suggest moving on to the next move, it's been a while about Falcon Kick.

Skip2MaLoo · May 3, 2009

I use it to get my second jump back, or if my opponent is right in my face, ill falcon kick > taunt combo.

talkingbeatles · May 3, 2009

Yeah. I recently played against someone who didn't really suck, (no offense to my friends at AC), and I was getting punished for using predictable aerial Falcon Kicks. Normally I'd be killed for using stuff like that, but the people I have to play against at this college are all pretty... um... not good.

It was good for me though. I've re arrived at the conclusion that the move is pretty darn bad.

t3h n00b · May 3, 2009

_Tiamat_ said:
I suggest moving on to the next move, it's been a while about Falcon Kick.

You're right, I was going to do it earlier today, but fell asleep at 3 pm. Falcon Dive will be up soon.

Skip2MaLoo · May 4, 2009

falcon dive oos works wonder on in the peach match-up. seriously. you use this move to recover, but you keep its landing lag if you grab the ledge or until the next time you jump back onto the ground which sucks. pretty punishable if you miss with it.

talkingbeatles · May 4, 2009

This is a great move to punish ledge guarders. If you work it right, you can get past a multitude of spikes, (R.O.B. still kills me), and Falcon has surprisingly powerful magnet hands when using it.

You use it out of shield and sometime I follow up on up throw or utilt with a raptor dive. This thing will also kill at high percents, if you're off the stage.

The best part of the move though is the exclamation at the end of it.

I'd say the best of Falcon's b moves, hands down.

t3h n00b · May 4, 2009

You know how you can use the move near the edge and it will sometimes grab an extremely close opponent instead of the edge? This is a general game mechanic, but you can hold down on the control stick and Falcon won't auto-sweetspot the edge. This is extremely useful for Falcon Dive because even after not grabbing the ledge, he can latch onto a person. It's kind of hard to explain, but you guys should try it, if someone wants I can put a video up tomorrow I guess. You basically get a free Falcon Dive unless your opponent is invincible or really far away from you. Nothing new, I don't think it's been done often with Falcon Dive though, but I could be wrong.

talkingbeatles · May 4, 2009

t3h n00b said:
You know how you can use the move near the edge and it will sometimes grab an extremely close opponent instead of the edge? This is a general game mechanic, but you can hold down on the control stick and Falcon won't auto-sweetspot the edge. This is extremely useful for Falcon Dive because even after not grabbing the ledge, he can latch onto a person. It's kind of hard to explain, but you guys should try it, if someone wants I can put a video up tomorrow I guess. You basically get a free Falcon Dive unless your opponent is invincible or really far away from you. Nothing new, I don't think it's been done often with Falcon Dive though, but I could be wrong.

No dude, I know what you're talking about. I do it all the time. I use to just do uairs, but the Falcon dive has surprisingly good range for grabbing people near the ledge.

t3h n00b · May 4, 2009

talkingbeatles said:
No dude, I know what you're talking about. I do it all the time. I use to just do uairs, but the Falcon dive has surprisingly good range for grabbing people near the ledge.

Not a ledgehop. This can only be done for recovery moves, and I guess midair jumps. If you uair, you won't auto-sweetspot anyway. It's not where you hit down or away from the edge and jump and do an aerial. It's Falcon Diving close to the edge, then holding down on the control stick. That will send you onto the stage if done without someone near you, but you will almost always latch onto your opponent.

talkingbeatles · May 4, 2009

t3h n00b said:
Not a ledgehop. This can only be done for recovery moves, and I guess midair jumps. If you uair, you won't auto-sweetspot anyway. It's not where you hit down or away from the edge and jump and do an aerial. It's Falcon Diving close to the edge, then holding down on the control stick. That will send you onto the stage if done without someone near you, but you will almost always latch onto your opponent.

I know... I know. I still think I see what you're talking about.
But I guess videos would be nice.
I believe I understand though.

t3h n00b · May 4, 2009

talkingbeatles said:
I know... I know. I still think I see what you're talking about.
But I guess videos would be nice.
I believe I understand though.

Ok sure, I'll put something up tomorrow afternoon. I don't know what you know lol, but it can't be done with uair.

talkingbeatles · May 4, 2009

t3h n00b said:
Ok sure, I'll put something up tomorrow afternoon. I don't know what you know lol, but it can't be done with uair.

No, I know it can't, but before doing what you're talking about, I used to uair. I don't anymore though. I don't know. Words are confusing. It's late...

falcon dive is good.

LuLLo · May 4, 2009

What he means is that if you're recovering with Falcon Dive and the opponent is near the ledge, you can hold Down on the control stick to cancel your auto-sweetspot with Up-B and grab the opponent instead of the ledge...basically what N00b said, but maybe this will help you understand better, there's no need for a video imo

.
And yeah, I use Falcon Dive not nearly enough, there are many moments where you can punish with a nice 17% against opponents who shield, airdodge too early/late expecting you to U-air, and many other things, like opponents who stand on platforms and shield, opponents who are stupid and keep edgehogging without invincibility frames, follow-up on first hit N-air and your jabs.
This move gets a 5/10 from me, since it is VERY punishable, but in the right situation (and there are plenty) this is a good option. I must use this one more.

_Tiamat_ · May 4, 2009

I think this move is WAYYY better than most Falcon mains give it credits for. Sure it have its downfalls and is far from being a 'great' move, but it's by no means bad.

First of all it does a solid 17% fresh if it connect (might be wrong but I think that's the number), then it have this nice grab-like properties to it, that mean in some cases you'll still hit even if you get struck due to super-armor (once I was playing Falcon vs Falcon with a friend and got knee'd while Falcon Diving, sweet knee connected with electricity but YES still occured, immediately SD'd 2 times to save that epic moment). Falcon Dive is also really good to ledgehop with due to it's huge range and grab features.

it also have pretty deceptive range. When on the ground running for example, Captain Falcon will slide and teleport pretty far to grab with this, WAY farther than his regular grab range. (I saw somewhere that he teleport even farther when you reverse it)

This move would be great if it wasn't for how open it leave Douglas when missing, you'll nearly always get hit for whiffing this on the stage, but if a ledge is close you can sometime save yourself by falling on it to avoid landing lag. Also you can avoid landing lag after HITTING by doing one of Douglas' lagless aerials (uair or bair)

Also, this is Falcon's manliest combo finisher, seriously, what's better than combo'ing your enemy with knees and up aerials off stage then finishing with YES.

I think Falcon Dive really have a lot of unexplored options and is one of Falcon's underestimated moves.

+ Solid damage
+ Grab features make this move connect where others wouldn't
+ Good range
+ Epic

- Get you punished for missing
- Can't really follow up (but they might not know you can cancel landing lag after falling and try to punish...)

6.5/10

YES.

LuLLo · May 4, 2009

Tiamat, your post really gets me hyped up to use this move over and over

.
And yes, the move is pretty underrated.
Also, what I just thought of, if you space the Dive so that IF it misses, you can always grab a ledge. That's what you said. But what happens after? When people see a Falcon do his Dive and it misses, they will almost ALWAYS go for a punish, and you can bet most of your money on it that they will do it running. When you've cancelled your lag with a ledge-hang, you can immediatly do ledgehop N-air, U-air or Falcon Dive to punish them for their attempt to punish. You might even get a Knee in, if the opponent is completely stupid or reckless.

_Tiamat_ · May 4, 2009

Yeah people should definitly experiment with this move, at least in random matches where nothing is at stake. YES is really good.

Oh and I forgot something, smaller opponents are harder to hit when grounded with this move, and as far as I know Ivysaur is completely immune to it in its standing stance (??? Ivysaur isn't THAT small...)

I'm pretty sure the sliding/teleporting part of the move grab the small people better, so if using this for someone like Kirby for example it should be spaced to reach him with this part (if he is grounded)

smashkng · May 4, 2009

A good grab move that can stage spike for kill edge guarders if near the lip for having killing power. Being a grab it's one his few moves along Falcon Punch that doesn't lack priority. As recovery it's mediocre because he starts to fall very quickly and is easy to gimp.

Darxmarth23 · May 4, 2009

Perfect surprise, very punishable.

t3h n00b · May 4, 2009

You can get so much cheap damage on Norfair with it. Not only are the four side platforms decent spots to Falcon Dive through, and go for a ledge if you miss, but you can pass through the middle platform, at least most of the time. Oh, and nair>falcon dive.

talkingbeatles · May 4, 2009

I'll pass through Halberd, Delfino, and Distant Planet all day.
It's great.

Iwan · May 4, 2009

I love this move because me and keykid literally discovered every property it has ^_^ ahhhhhh!

First of all, the move doesn't have super armor; it has grab priority, which means this move destroys a lot of downward moving attacks. We did testing on it a LONNNNG time ago, but IIRC, Falcon Dive beats out toon links dair, Lucario's dair, DDD's Up B, Ganondorf's Dair (yea. I know), DK's dair, Fox's Dair, Falco's Dair, and definitely a few others that I'm forgetting. It's in the thread I made a long time ago. Take note though, you need to launch falcon dive towards the front of all of these hitboxes, so falcon's face hits the opponent. Doing otherwise and going straight up into the bottom of all of these attacks will just cause you to get hit. Done properly, you'll take the damage, but absorb the move and land Falcon Dive...which does a nice 17-18 percent or so unstale. IIRC...lol.

This move is awesome as a ledgehopped move. I know everyone loves Ledgehopping Up air and Fair, and with good reason: Upair give you breathing room and the ledgehopped Fair can get you an Early KO. However, if either of these are shielded you'll get punished.

Falcon Dive goes through shields, and has at least twice as much range as fair and up air as a ledgehopped move. This move can also be shield canceled, and with tap jump set to ON, can be used out of a dash easy, giving falcon a dash grab esqeu second option when you want to mix it up.

This move also puts your opponent in bad situations at certain points in a match: Use an aerial to bait an air dodge, punish their air dodge with Falcon Dive. It's pretty simple: They either eat the aerial or eat the up B, their choice I guess. lol.

The stage spike is also nice for recovering

......and lastly, this move is pretty safe to use, considering you get a ridiculous amount of Directional Influence out of Falcon Dive.

K.
Done ranting about my old. old. old.
old.
old find.

xD

Good, underrated move, but not nearly as amazing as I thought upon my initial "discovery" of it's offensive prowess.

Oh well.
lol.

Player-3 · May 4, 2009

iwans post is everything i have to say about this move

except, i use it to recover from a ledge on to the stage using the glitch thing where you go up under the lip and just pass right by the ledge, gives it stupidly big range

(i wasnt sure if that was what you meant by ledgehopped)

t3h n00b · May 4, 2009

Grab priority beats everything. If something beats Falcon Dive, it is a person with invincibility frames, or a grab will actually outprioritize (or at least outspeed) it. Things that hit you out of Falcon Dive just hit before the hitbox activates.

And yeah the holding down thing on the ledge is too good.

Darxmarth23 · May 4, 2009

Iwan won this move discussion.

Jyuck · May 4, 2009

Made me so mad when Tiamat did that to me. ¬¬ But I won!

masterdrenin · May 5, 2009

o i missed raptor boost
... i love that move yee... it's all mindgames
i guess some ppl can space it others can't lol love/hate i guess
i pull of RB>Uair>Uair>Utilt a lot ^___^

falcon dive is just grea.t... YESZ!
oos or just mindgames

CF is all about creativity and spontanaiety u need to use the random moves sometimes too xd

masterdrenin · May 5, 2009

Iwan said:
I love this move because me and keykid literally discovered every property it has ^_^ ahhhhhh!

First of all, the move doesn't have super armor; it has grab priority, which means this move destroys a lot of downward moving attacks. We did testing on it a LONNNNG time ago, but IIRC, Falcon Dive beats out toon links dair, Lucario's dair, DDD's Up B, Ganondorf's Dair (yea. I know), DK's dair, Fox's Dair, Falco's Dair, and definitely a few others that I'm forgetting. It's in the thread I made a long time ago. Take note though, you need to launch falcon dive towards the front of all of these hitboxes, so falcon's face hits the opponent. Doing otherwise and going straight up into the bottom of all of these attacks will just cause you to get hit. Done properly, you'll take the damage, but absorb the move and land Falcon Dive...which does a nice 17-18 percent or so unstale. IIRC...lol.

This move is awesome as a ledgehopped move. I know everyone loves Ledgehopping Up air and Fair, and with good reason: Upair give you breathing room and the ledgehopped Fair can get you an Early KO. However, if either of these are shielded you'll get punished.

Falcon Dive goes through shields, and has at least twice as much range as fair and up air as a ledgehopped move. This move can also be shield canceled, and with tap jump set to ON, can be used out of a dash easy, giving falcon a dash grab esqeu second option when you want to mix it up.

This move also puts your opponent in bad situations at certain points in a match: Use an aerial to bait an air dodge, punish their air dodge with Falcon Dive. It's pretty simple: They either eat the aerial or eat the up B, their choice I guess. lol.

The stage spike is also nice for recovering ......and lastly, this move is pretty safe to use, considering you get a ridiculous amount of Directional Influence out of Falcon Dive.

K.
Done ranting about my old. old. old.
old.
old find.

xD

Good, underrated move, but not nearly as amazing as I thought upon my initial "discovery" of it's offensive prowess.

Oh well.
lol.

true lots of DI to falcon dive
the only thing it don't beat is DDD's bair <.< (sometimes it does but not rly)

masterdrenin · May 5, 2009

t3h n00b said:
You can get so much cheap damage on Norfair with it. Not only are the four side platforms decent spots to Falcon Dive through, and go for a ledge if you miss, but you can pass through the middle platform, at least most of the time. Oh, and nair>falcon dive.

there's no such thing as cheap with CF... lol

LuLLo · May 5, 2009

I'd say, since Iwan's post covers lots of information (basically all you need), we'd better move on to Falcon Punch

talkingbeatles · May 5, 2009

Ooh boy. I can't wait to hear peoples opinions on this.

LuLLo · May 5, 2009

Yeah, it's gonna be a short discussion, but why skip it and deny Falcon Punch some glory it deserves

.
But it's waiting on n00b to confirm this, it's his thread after all.

t3h n00b · May 5, 2009

Yeah sure you guys are fast, I just woke up :chuckle:

I'll update the OP.

LuLLo · May 5, 2009

LoL I'm Dutch, it's 21:00 over here right now

.
But about Falcon Punch, I find myself doing this move less and less and less. Before I'd occasionally threw in one when the situation showed itself, but there are better options, like a Sweet Knee, so my FP rate is 00.01% by now. The only situation I can come up now is predicting a Snake's Cypher and shove in a FP before he can airdodge, other than that, it's only a good move versus stupid opponents who break their shields or pull out a Falcon Punch themselves.

Zeallyx · May 5, 2009

LuLLo said:
LoL I'm Dutch, it's 21:00 over here right now .
But about Falcon Punch, I find myself doing this move less and less and less. Before I'd occasionally threw in one when the situation showed itself, but there are better options, like a Sweet Knee, so my FP rate is 00.01% by now. The only situation I can come up now is predicting a Snake's Cypher and shove in a FP before he can airdodge, other than that, it's only a good move versus stupid opponents who break their shields or pull out a Falcon Punch themselves.

only five past 21:00 though lol.

And falcon punch sucks, dont use it.

Falcon Moveset Discussion: summaries coming soon

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