Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Sadly, I don't play many Marths, so I've not enough experience to provide any nuggets of wisdom. However, it's a basic fact that this is a toughie for Wario.
Discuss.
Discuss.
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Wario's Week 5 Matchup: Marth
- Thread starter Collective of Bears
- Start date
MorphedChaos
Smash Lord
Long reach attacks that can tip if you weave away from him like you do with other characters. That and most of his attacks aren't very laggy and hes hard to punish.
The good news is, once hes off the stage, he should be dead.
The good news is, once hes off the stage, he should be dead.
YagamiDark
Smash Journeyman
Dun get grabbed. Grab release --> Usmash isn't very nice.
Just don't get grabbed. At all. By anyone.
Up angled Ftilt has more range than Fair
Just don't get grabbed. At all. By anyone.
Up angled Ftilt has more range than Fair
Dynomite
Smash Champion
Being a marth secondary, i know a a trick or 2.. marths love to fair wall and air wall. so watch for openings and patterns
GRAB RELEASE: marth has one of the most confusing and gayest grab releases, i dont fully understand how it works, but it kind of like Air release> stutter step forward > side smash the other way that you are facing and somehow it tips you while you are in the air >.> lame
Marth can up smash, side smash (stated above), and even up tilt if you get air released.
GRAB RELEASE: marth has one of the most confusing and gayest grab releases, i dont fully understand how it works, but it kind of like Air release> stutter step forward > side smash the other way that you are facing and somehow it tips you while you are in the air >.> lame
Marth can up smash, side smash (stated above), and even up tilt if you get air released.
HAT
Smash Ace
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235394
because of this glitch, marth has limited options when recovering from the edge. know them. abuse them
-this is SlikVik
because of this glitch, marth has limited options when recovering from the edge. know them. abuse them
-this is SlikVik
Yeah, that lag is old news... and free farts!
Dynomite
Smash Champion
^^ picking up where i left off...
*SMASHVILLE*: some warios might know this, and some dont, but i might as well say this so people who dont know this can get saved. when marth has you in a grab on smashville its best do wait for the platform that moves to come to you. If marth pummel, dont worry about it, its better to take the pummel damage rather than to eat the smash or up tilt for death. if you are at a high damage that is a good thing, use it to your advantage. one marth up smash or up tilt will most likely kill u at 150 no doubt, but at that health you stay in the grab for quite some time. so dont press anyting and wait for the platform to come to you, once u know its close then start mashing. marth cant do anything if you break and before hit the platform hold shield. marth cant punish you after that.
FAIR: Marth's like using Fair alot, they usually fall back with it and fair wall. Wario's Fair trades with marth's Fair but if marth jumps and fairs you then you are in trouble. Wario's fair isnt as good as marth's (duh) so if you trade fairs then I suggest that you retreat because marth will win. but that doesnt mean you can fight back, a smart wario can put up a good fair fight against a good marth. i might have a video of that which i will upload really soon. it also trades with marth's back air.
VIDEOS/EXAMPLES:
1:39 weird grab release to pivot smash tip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1zcjcueORA
i have another video of me on smashville vsing the same marth in a monthly right after that one, but i am not at home right now so i cant upload it.
YagamiDark
Smash Journeyman
I use Bair against Fair Spammy Marth's and it works to an extent. And the platform-above-you grab release escaping is universal and well known. That's why we ban FD a lot xD
Dynomite
Smash Champion
Yes the platforms are universal, i was just stating that the platform moves, trying to state that if people dont see the platform above them they take the up smash. im just telling them to wait.
Kit Cal-N
Smash Ace
Grab a lot. A LOT A LOT A LOT.
Neutral air a lot. Keeps you close but still builds damage.
Clap shouldn't be saved in this match-up. Sure, a fresh one would kill low, but if he's above you you can get nice damage off. He's not good at protecting his butt.
There are 200 ways to gimp him. Bite, fair, bair, sour-spot nair to footstool.
This match-up might be 35:65 if we didn't have farts. Land them!
Neutral air a lot. Keeps you close but still builds damage.
Clap shouldn't be saved in this match-up. Sure, a fresh one would kill low, but if he's above you you can get nice damage off. He's not good at protecting his butt.
There are 200 ways to gimp him. Bite, fair, bair, sour-spot nair to footstool.
This match-up might be 35:65 if we didn't have farts. Land them!
FattyFatFatso
Smash Apprentice
Baiting their forward moving F-airs to your falling away B-air seems to work well for me. It stops the flow of their F-air walls. Work more on Full hop D-airs to shield poke them because if you do it too low to the ground you could eat a Dolpin Slash out of shield. Don't be afraid to challenge them off stage and be wary of approaching a retreating F-air or you will just land to meet a Dancing Blade. Learn the spacing game quickly and when they are hanging on the ledge stand a certain distance away to punish, I will try to describe it: When you do your F-tilt the hand will be about a few spaces away from the edge. This is very important as you can severely punish Marth's recovery options. If he jumps to N-air or F-air he will be barely out of range but since his hand is extended your F-tilt should connect. If he short hops to airdodge just F-tilt as you will hit him right when he lands on stage. (Got D-phat with that one so many times lol). If he rolls, F-tilt, if he just stands up on stage your F-tilt should just push him off back onto the ledge where you can repeat. Most Marths seem to want to short hop attack out of ledge or short hop air dodge onto the level. The only situations where I was beaten back from the ledge was from a short hop counter that baited my F-tilt (stupid!) and a Full hop f-air. If you are quick (and lucky) you might be able to clab the Marth right under his F-air. For giggles, if he does Dancing Blade on you, if it is a little slow, you can trade hits with fart. It is hilarious because Wario falls on the ground and Marth goes shooting away and you can't tell what happened.
BMX
Smash Lord
Well, everything has basically been explained and I agree. Be wary of his aeriels and don't get tipped. Smash DI away from the Dancing blades(unless you have a fart, thanks fatty!). Marth has moves that combo into other moves, so try not to be lead on. Look for any openings and take advantage. IMO, gimping him is the majority of his deaths. Don't fall for his planking game, though.
Padô
Smash Lord
Which way to Smash DI out of dancing blades?
Nairs doesnt work well on this matchup. Bair is the best option and sure grabs. Dair to a bite is excelent in this matchup abuse of it.
Nairs doesnt work well on this matchup. Bair is the best option and sure grabs. Dair to a bite is excelent in this matchup abuse of it.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
****, this matchup is going slow.
BMX
Smash Lord
I agree. TBH, it's not hard if you develop a strategy against Marth. I only worry about Neo -_-
Anyways, avoid being tippered. Properly space your attacks. I find doing specific combos on him don't work due to the fact that Fair is just too good of a get out of my face attack. Watchout because it combos into itself. DI properly when grab-released to an up-smashed. I have lived through it when I was at 167, but it was overused D: Gimp is a viable strategy, but Fair will be problem so predict and punish. Works for me ^_^
Anyways, avoid being tippered. Properly space your attacks. I find doing specific combos on him don't work due to the fact that Fair is just too good of a get out of my face attack. Watchout because it combos into itself. DI properly when grab-released to an up-smashed. I have lived through it when I was at 167, but it was overused D: Gimp is a viable strategy, but Fair will be problem so predict and punish. Works for me ^_^
Dynomite
Smash Champion
Im hearing that neo doesnt play marth anymore. he is more focused on his diddy. he is saying stuff like "diddy cant play against camping, but he is an awesome character" (didnt mean that in a form of johns, neo is awesome and i look up to him as a marth)
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Ok... A week has gone, and we have practically nothing.
Padô
Smash Lord
45-55 marth probably 40-60, because of range ONLY
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
If we dair his shield, and he has great timing, can he *in theory* DS us OOS every time, due to the range and speed compared to our retreat speed?
That's too risky b/c if we go through him instead then he's completely vulnerable. By no means is it any worse than 45:55 us.
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Do you guys like bite in this matchup? I find that Marth doesn't hide in his shield enough, he relies more on spacing to protect him...
But I don't really play good marths, so maybe I SHOULD be using more bite. idk.
But I don't really play good marths, so maybe I SHOULD be using more bite. idk.
You can land bites from time to time, especially when edgeguarding, but since he can space us so well in the air (like GW) and has a dangerous up b, it's not as effective as vs others. I DO Wariocide or pivote bite gimp/stagespike Marth when I get the chance, though.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
there is some pretty tasty material on the first page..
Corrupted
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
- Messages
- 446
Nope. You have to autocancel near-perfectly though.
smashkng
Smash Lord
Marth is not really hard, it's far from impossible. Wario lacks very hard matchups. Is then Marth's range and speed enough to avoid a Wario punishment?
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Its quite hard...
Not impossible, but hard.
Not impossible, but hard.
Padô
Smash Lord
yeah if you land in his face, but if you land his back do whatever you want...
Shielding our dair is not the best option for marth they will always try to fair it or uair it...
Just agreed with PhantomX's numbers they make sense, this match is pretty winnable
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Can't he reverse it out of shield though? I thought anything he can DS from the front he can DS from the back...
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,535
Marth can up b dair out of shield DURING the move lol. He doesnt have to wait till the end XD. Its like 45-55 prlly.
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
That is what I was thinking would be the problem.
He can do that to the turtle too. One of the reasons I quite GaW.
How do you approach the matchup? What should be your goal against Marth?
He can do that to the turtle too. One of the reasons I quite GaW.
How do you approach the matchup? What should be your goal against Marth?
Padô
Smash Lord
Bair works fine Float we can jump higher then Marth too and Dair him while he Fair wall...
My main approach against Marth is usually one of two things, Grab **** him til he's offstage where he's easy (imo) to edgeguard, or get him above me and rack up damage with upairs/upsmashes, or more grabs.
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Above or offstage, good thoughts.
You like to rising Dair to FF clap? I find that knocks my opponents above me fairly consistently, as long as I mix it in properly with retreating or airdodge, or another dair.... they don't react in time and end up above me.
You like to rising Dair to FF clap? I find that knocks my opponents above me fairly consistently, as long as I mix it in properly with retreating or airdodge, or another dair.... they don't react in time and end up above me.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
I'm going to call the verdict 40:60 for Marth, since that's... The only number we got. Moving on.
stnapknah
Smash Journeyman
a couple of guys said 45-55 (fiction and px), so i'd at least put 45-55 to 40-60 if not just 45-55.
En.Ee.Oh
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 2,527
Humpy Thrashabout
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2009
- Messages
- 294
I hope my input isn't too late, but I feel that shielding correctly in this matchup gives you a huge advantage. It's tough to get in close to a Marth, so once you do they will expect you to attack. Try mixing in empty jumps to shield grab. For throws I would stick to forward or up (only to put him above you), down throw will usually leave you retreating.
Marth's approach is also pretty predictable, so you can play shield campy. Usually I will up-tilt OoS and go for an unexpected clap. Then when I get a pretty good Waft charged I will up-tilt OoS again to bait their laggy Dair for a free waft.
Watch the video posted of Dynomite against that Marth he has an excellent shield game when he gets in close. Especially against Dancing Blades towards the end.
Marth's approach is also pretty predictable, so you can play shield campy. Usually I will up-tilt OoS and go for an unexpected clap. Then when I get a pretty good Waft charged I will up-tilt OoS again to bait their laggy Dair for a free waft.
Watch the video posted of Dynomite against that Marth he has an excellent shield game when he gets in close. Especially against Dancing Blades towards the end.
Supreme65
Smash Apprentice
I think it's 40/60 marth. Warios grab a lot and stay clear of tippers and this match isn't too hard. The same thing nearly applys to peach somewhat. But she glides a lot and will prevent ya from throwing.