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Fox Matchup

gallax

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Fox



General Discussion

Soon to Come

Pika's Advantages

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Pika's Disadvantages

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Strategy for Winning

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Helpful Video's

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Overall Matchup

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Jenkins

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Buffered CG to 100%+ then U-smash to Thunder. After that he'll try to be really campy, but one slip up by him = either lose 1-stock or close to losing a stock.
yay, pikachu wins! thats all you gotta do for this matchup lol
 

Muhznit

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Just make sure you do a jumping thunder, in case he manages to pull out the reflector. If he keeps out the reflector too long, you can just double jump and Nair him.
 

S.K.I.D

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I would say 65:35 Pikachu's favor. If you bust out a grab it's pretty much over for him:dizzy:
 

Talonzz

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You guys should go more in-depth in this match -.-

Some Foxes are good at not getting grabbed.
 

Stealth Raptor

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yeah fact of the matter is without the cgs fox counters pika easily. ill watch this for a bit and give my opinions on the matchup. my local fox is zeton (who won a tourney in oklahoma recently) so i have a bunch to say.
 

KayLo!

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yeah fact of the matter is without the cgs fox counters pika easily. ill watch this for a bit and give my opinions on the matchup. my local fox is zeton (who won a tourney in oklahoma recently) so i have a bunch to say.
Why not just give your opinion now (assuming you have the time)? We could use a starting point since, judging by how this thread is going, I doubt many other people have a wealth of Fox experience minus the CG. There's nothing to watch, lol.
 

Vere

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yeah fact of the matter is without the cgs fox counters pika easily. ill watch this for a bit and give my opinions on the matchup. my local fox is zeton (who won a tourney in oklahoma recently) so i have a bunch to say.

I'm sorry but the only way 'fox counters pikachu easily' is because of his reflector shield in the air. Just because you know someone who won a tourney in OK (Could've been a tourney at someone's house for crying out loud) doesn't make Fox a better toon than Pikachu.

More often than not, unless they're just better in general as players, I have Fox beat.
 

Zeton

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Ok. don't get mad cuz you can't grab fox and he wrecks you. this thread is to help prevent that.
 

KayLo!

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Guys, please don't post just to say "Pika is better than Fox" or vice versa.

If you're going to state your opinion one way or another, back it up with useful facts and information..... otherwise, you're not really contributing to the discussion.
 

Zeton

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This matchup is pretty bad for fox, but if you rely on your 1 kill combo, you will get baited to your doom.

Here's an example...

Let's say you want to just shield grab fox. Say fox does a short hop fair over your shield and lands behind you. now YOUR in trouble. if you try to unshield, hes just going to get you to 40% with his utilt lock. Yes, I know neutral air with proper DI will break perhaps break you free from it, but guess what, thats just a few % closer to get fox to the point you can't chain grab him....hmmm...

This matchup is literally a game of cat chasing mouse, pikachu does have a huge threat on fox, but if the fox plays smart he can turn that weakness into his strength. and keep in mind that with proper DI on certain stages that cg doesn't lead to a death, and then you're going to have to open urself up even more with your KO moves. and fox is pretty good getting in those hits during that attack lag or landing lag...

So in my opinion, yes, this matchup is horrid for fox, but at the same time if someone tried to just counter pick me with pikachu, (which has happened, many, many times) or didn't know this match up at all I'd wreck their world.
 

Pikabunz

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I never had a problem with shielding his dair. So normal shielding should be fine. One thing Fox can do is camp platforms till about 60%, at around that percent the cg stops working. KOing Fox after the cg can be really tough. When going for the kill, don't start spamming smashes like crazy cause you will never hit him and he will punish you every time for it, Fox is really good at it. Wait for the Fox player to eff up and hit him with an upsmash or nair oos.
 

Xi_Athletics_ix

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Most likely common knowledge, but pika can duck under fox's lasers. That should save you a few percent that could end up saving you a stock.

That and tjolt doesn't really work here with fox's shine >.>
 

The Truth!

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Even excluding the CGs this matchup pika still has some pretty significant advantages. Pikas moves tend to outprioritize most of foxs, his recovery is pretty punishable/gimpable, he's easily comboed, a lot of his standard tactics tend to led into grab, you can duck and crawl under his lazers, etc. Of course one thing that helps fox greatly is his killing ability. Pika tends to live a lot less longer if he's killed off the top, and imo Fox's usmash is the best verticle kill move in the game (slightly better then snakes utilt). He can also combo well and is pretty fast, although those advantages arent quite as big on pika versus most other characters since pika is pretty fast himself and not so heavy that comboing owns him.

Also, if the Fox tries to over b back and forth trying to run away, sh dairs (and to some extent nairs) are great at punishing a fox that attempts to over b through you.
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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When going for the kill I like to ftilt them. Fox falls like a rock so you can run out and do a rising nair and hit him if he illusions and just drop and nair if he firefoxes. Clearly he can mess with the timing but....


Something I like doing with Sonic is to wait till they're on the ledge and run out like I'm gonna stage spike them but then instead of doing an attack I jump and attack them getting up. Is Pika fast enough to fake them out like that?
 

Lord Chair

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Something I like doing with Sonic is to wait till they're on the ledge and run out like I'm gonna stage spike them but then instead of doing an attack I jump and attack them getting up. Is Pika fast enough to fake them out like that?
You're comparing 2 entirely different characters. Pikachu is not the master of stagespikes, his only aerial capable of doing that to any extent is Nair, but I don't even want to recall when I last saw a Pikachu stagespike anyone.
 

AfroTwist ShadowPie

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An important thing is to don't underastimate the Focks even though it's a horrible match-up for him.
I main Link and 50% of his match-ups are like this lol. People underestimating me is the main reason i beat 90% of all the MK scrubs I play >:D
And just so you know... <_< >_> I do realize I'm not being very helpful >_<
 

bigman40

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As we all know, Fox is gonna run away since we have basically a death CG on them. So it's already apparent that we'll have a lot of SH lasers coming at us. be patient and play a mid zone game on them so that you can be alert when he decides to do something. Don't really go for a camp vs camp fight cause lasers do a much better job in doing damage and Fox can reflect Tjolt easily. If you need more details, I can see what is useful.


....Zuzuzu.....
 

PsychoNess

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70:30 Hes gona Try to pull out a aireal sooner or later then shield grab to Chain grab. Blaster is pretty much useless for camping.
 

Doormat Buster

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Having gone through the pikachu vs. fox match up, the best course of action in my mind is to wait out fox, because he will be bouncing all over the place and will wind up suiciding several times due to the fox illusion. in order for fox to hit the the fire fox on pikachu, he would need to hit pika at pint blank range to nail it and with pika's speed, I realy do not see that happening. Fox will try to abuse the blaster, but I agree once pikachu gets inside of fox's defenses fox is toast. With comboing pika's upward smash attack with thunder and possibly a skull bash here and there, fox is done for.
 

platiepoos

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Having gone through the pikachu vs. fox match up, the best course of action in my mind is to wait out fox, because he will be bouncing all over the place and will wind up suiciding several times due to the fox illusion. in order for fox to hit the the fire fox on pikachu, he would need to hit pika at pint blank range to nail it and with pika's speed, I realy do not see that happening. Fox will try to abuse the blaster, but I agree once pikachu gets inside of fox's defenses fox is toast. With comboing pika's upward smash attack with thunder and possibly a skull bash here and there, fox is done for.

This is the most hilarious post I've ever read. Please lurk a little bit more doormat. :laugh:

Anyway, Fox is one of the best "bait and punish" characters in the game, and with Pikachu constantly going for his super beast combo Fox's job becomes a whole lot easier. When approaching Fox be ready to intercept him at mid range as he tries to illusion/jump over you so he can shoot more SH lasers. If you aren't playing a campy fox, he is going to be baiting grabs by doing things like sittingn in his shield longer than he usually does. Counter this by using SH dairs and dsmashes to punish Fox's OOS options. Also it's always good to remember that fox's utilt hitbox extends in front of him so landing in lag in front of OR behind Fox is never a good idea.
 

Roller

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I agree with the fox board's old interpretation of the matchup from way back in the day. every other character was like, 60-40,45-55, etc. Matchup vs Pikachu "LOL"

There you have it. LOL in favor of pika. XD
 

PUNK9

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One thing you should watch out for is fox;s usmash. that move is so fast and strong, when its fresh it kills pika around 90.
 

KayLo!

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D-smash, Thunder, and Skull Bash stage spike :]
None of those are anywhere close to being reliable, lol. They're all easy to see coming from ten million miles away, except for maybe dsmash, which is a really weak stage spike anyway.
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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The stage spike wasn't the point. The point was that if you run off you can trick them into aiming FireFox for the stage rather than the edge so you can nair or even Uair him on your return to the stage. I tried a few times though and I don't think Pikachu is fast enough to threaten people into making hasty decisions. I was simply saying Fox's recovery is a little easier to manipulate than a lot of others. Most GOOD Foxes would sooner do a rising Fair/shinestall and recover too high for a stage spike to have any reliability anyway.
 

PUNK9

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some other things you should make shure you avoid is messing up on the chain grab. if you miss the grab but a few frames fox can use his reflector and get out of it,

Also his refletor can be used to reflect thunder, so if u use thunder while fox is in the air, make shure to use it so pika naturally moves out of the way.
 

Razek

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To me, only way foxs have a chance is by baiting you to grab. He knows you want it. In all honesty I just take a few grabs and just use shield. Foxes throws are meh at best. Eat a throw here and there and you get an easy 100% damage with a chance to kill. Obviously don't just shield or let it get low. If it does just run to the ledge and camp for like 5 seconds and repeat. if you don't die they normally get frustrated and start going for up-smashes which is so easy to grab. Foxes limited approaches makes this such an easy fight.
Personally if they can't make it with the rising forward air and then use the forward B to get over then they have to use foxfire. All you do is Uair them QA to the ledge FF down and the QA back onto it and hes done for. =D
 

Ralph Cecil

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I have a question. I read the majority of these and all i've seen is that all Pikachu has is a chain grab, and can beat fox's over b. The chain grab is easily readable by fox and if they're at least a competent fox they'll be expecting it and bait you into it and punish you for it. The over b punishing can easily be avoided, and I feel that after it happens 3 or 4 times they'll see it coming and bait you into it just for some more damage. So are these really the only things Pikachu has on Fox, and if so why is it in Pikachu's favor?
 

KayLo!

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The CG on Fox takes him from 0% to KO percentages with one grab. That's primarily why the MU is so far in Pikachu's favor...... one grab is pretty much a stock from him.

That being said, I personally don't think the matchup is unwinnable for a very good Fox if he camps well, but it's definitely in Pika's favor. Even if Fox plays super campy, he's gonna have to approach for the kill eventually, which puts him at risk for getting grabbed.
 

Ralph Cecil

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The CG on Fox takes him from 0% to KO percentages with one grab. That's primarily why the MU is so far in Pikachu's favor...... one grab is pretty much a stock from him.

That being said, I personally don't think the matchup is unwinnable for a very good Fox if he camps well, but it's definitely in Pika's favor. Even if Fox plays super campy, he's gonna have to approach for the kill eventually, which puts him at risk for getting grabbed.
I sort of understand that but if he's smart enough he could expect it and bait us into trying for a grab and kill us with that ridiculous u-smash, but aside from that I don't completely see how the chain grab alone could make this such a good matchup. Even though you can get him to kill % how are you going to finish him off. If you go for the u-smash into thunder he can just reflect that. Aside from that it seems like a patient and cool headed Fox could easily bait and punish you go a whole game, and in most tournies if he can just have less damage than you then you are forced to approach or else he wins when the time runs out.
 

King~

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if you know there baiting you, you dont have to grab. personally i think you can fight fox just fine on even footing. considering hes light and we die at like 80 from up smash.

or rather

with out the CG i think its even, and with the CG boosts it in our favor. im either wrong or right shrug
 
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