Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

Kewkky · Jun 17, 2009

Half-Split Soul said:
That ratio is waaayyy old, from the time when people though Zelda was good.

65:35 Kirby is still too high. 55:45 would be much more accurate.

Why should it be 55:45? I seriously think Kirby's speed plus speedy attacks with decent knockback AND aerial camping abilities have Zelda somewhat cornered (to a degree)... I means you can't afford to make mistakes or else Kirby will sneak a hit on you most definitely. : /

A1lion835 · Jun 17, 2009

Alright, I think we'll come back and rediscuss this some other time, but how about 60-40 Kirby? Kewkky brings up some good points. What's the voting? I have no real suggestions...

Kewkky · Jun 17, 2009

Let's go for G&W. There's not much difference, but now we have months more of experience compared to last MU discussion.

... I still believe G&W is Kirby's worst MU.

Lord Viper · Jun 17, 2009

☆ I think we should start R.O.B. because I no longer think he's 40/60 R.O.B. but 45/55 R.O.B. ☆

A1lion835 · Jun 17, 2009

That's 2 for G&W, if you count Darkirby's post as a vote and 3 for ROB (I voted).

Kewkky · Jun 17, 2009

I change my vote for ROB. Only reason I said G&W was because there was already demand for G&W...

... But I also believe ROB could have a change in MU numbers.

T-nuts · Jun 17, 2009

i vote for G&W as well.

Delta Z · Jun 17, 2009

I vote Wario. He shot up to third in the tier list, so there's gonna be a lot of new Warios out there, and it's gonna be good to have newer info on him.

thrillagorilla · Jun 18, 2009

Falco would be interesting, but I could go with G-dubs. If you want to know about the ROB MU just ask t1mmy. t0mmy is one of the best ROBs on the west coast. or THE best... :-)

IDK myself. I gave up playing t0mmy's ROB with Kirby because he knows the MU so much better than me. XD

Jon? · Jun 18, 2009

I main Falco and Kirby, so I know how that much up goes. LOL.

Wario seems like an easy opponent to play against. He's heavy so go grab combo crazy. You're Bair has more reach than any of Wario's aerials. Making Warios trip is pure comedy! Dair spiking is easy too.

I'd vote for either a R.O.B or G&W discussion. I don't know too much about those matchups.

Triple R · Jun 18, 2009

Jon? said:
Wario seems like an easy opponent to play against. He's heavy so go grab combo crazy. You're Bair has more reach than any of Wario's aerials. Making Warios trip is pure comedy! Dair spiking is easy too.

I think you are clearly mistaken..... -_-

Kewkky · Jun 18, 2009

Triple R said:
I think you are clearly mistaken..... -_-

... Well, he's mistaken on the "go grab combo crazy"part... And I'm not saying more till we discuss him.

fromundaman · Jun 18, 2009

Jon? said:
I main Falco and Kirby, so I know how that much up goes. LOL.

Wario seems like an easy opponent to play against. He's heavy so go grab combo crazy. You're Bair has more reach than any of Wario's aerials. Making Warios trip is pure comedy! Dair spiking is easy too.

I'd vote for either a R.O.B or G&W discussion. I don't know too much about those matchups.

Your summary is off, but also, are you saying that since you play both Kirby and Falco you know how they play AGAINST each other? Have you played yourself often?

:mad: · Jun 18, 2009

Let's do Wario, since some people underestimate him like all hell.

jiovanni007 · Jun 18, 2009

I vote Wario because I think some Kirby mains may not understand that match-up and just make

incorrect

assumptions.

Lord Viper · Jun 18, 2009

☆ But the Wario vs Kirby match up points is accelerate through 45/55 Wario unless it can be proven wrong. I wanted to start ROB because his match up is mix match now. ☆

jiovanni007 · Jun 18, 2009

Viper JLT4GOV said:
☆ But the Wario vs Kirby match up points is accelerate through 45/55 Wario unless it can be proven wrong. I wanted to start ROB because his match up is mix match now. ☆

I think the ROB match-up is pretty straight forward personally, you have to play a certain way or you will lose. Probably about 40/60 ROB, but the point is that ROB is losing popularity at the moment and Wario is gaining it so its more beneficial to have the Wario match-up down as opposed to the ROB match-up.

Lord Viper · Jun 18, 2009

☆ Oh I see what you mean. My thought is that I thought ROB would be 45/55 ROB right now, I'm just picking match up's that seem... wierd to me. ☆

Asdioh · Jun 18, 2009

Just choose something.

I vote ROB I guess. It's probably 55-45 ROB's favor, or even.

I think Wario is even.

I think G&W is still 60-40. Possibly 55-45.

I'm optimistic about some of these matchups

Oh yeah, I'll definitely be playing Overswarm sometime this week, and I'll make him go ROB. >=(

As for G&Ws..there's a few good ones at the tourney.

I don't really know if there are any great Warios.

jiovanni007 · Jun 18, 2009

Asdioh said:
Just choose something.

I vote ROB I guess. It's probably 55-45 ROB's favor, or even.

I think Wario is even.

I think G&W is still 60-40. Possibly 55-45.

I'm optimistic about some of these matchups

Oh yeah, I'll definitely be playing Overswarm sometime this week, and I'll make him go ROB. >=(

As for G&Ws..there's a few good ones at the tourney.

I don't really know if there are any great Warios.

a bit too optimistic about ROB IMO, but I can definitely see the G-Dub match-up being 55-45. Maybe not quit even but I'm definitely getting much better at that match up. So how many votes do we need before we start discussion? I may seem random but I'm actually very active tourney wise but didn't post much since I was studying during the school term.

fromundaman · Jun 18, 2009

Asdioh said:
Just choose something.

I vote ROB I guess. It's probably 55-45 ROB's favor, or even.

I think Wario is even.

I think G&W is still 60-40. Possibly 55-45.

I'm optimistic about some of these matchups

Oh yeah, I'll definitely be playing Overswarm sometime this week, and I'll make him go ROB. >=(

As for G&Ws..there's a few good ones at the tourney.

I don't really know if there are any great Warios.

Last I saw him, DJ_Iskascribble had a decent Wario (good enough to take a FEW matches off Anther in friendlies), though I don't know if that's still the case. I don't know if any big-name Warios live in the MW though or will show up to this.

Asdioh · Jun 18, 2009

fromundaman said:
Last I saw him, DJ_Iskascribble had a decent Wario last time I saw him

orly

Well I'll find out.

As for G&W being 55-45...I dunno if I should be that optimistic. I mean, most of his attacks beat ours, and he beats us in kill power/kill move safeness, and I think he might survive longer with bucket braking, not sure. It's just that what he does is so telegraphed that it's pretty easy to maneuver around his attacks and get your own in.

Maybe I'm thinking about reading too much, and not comparing the actual characters. *shrug*

:mad: · Jun 18, 2009

Looks like we'll be able to start the next matchup 4 days from now.

Good stuff, guys.

thrillagorilla · Jun 18, 2009

Asdioh said:
orly

Well I'll find out.

As for G&W being 55-45...I dunno if I should be that optimistic. I mean, most of his attacks beat ours, and he beats us in kill power/kill move safeness, and I think he might survive longer with bucket braking, not sure. It's just that what he does is so telegraphed that it's pretty easy to maneuver around his attacks and get your own in.

Maybe I'm thinking about reading too much, and not comparing the actual characters. *shrug*

Readability is still part of the character's traits. G&W telegraphs most of what he is going to do. Its not that you are reading what you're opponent is going to do, its that you are reading what G&W is going to do. A good player can help mitigate this, but in the end, you can still see visually what G&W is going to do a lot of the time.

In any case, just pick someone A1, lol.

Kewkky · Jun 18, 2009

thrillagorilla said:
Readability is still part of the character's traits. G&W telegraphs most of what he is going to do. Its not that you are reading what you're opponent is going to do, its that you are reading what G&W is going to do. A good player can help mitigate this, but in the end, you can still see visually what G&W is going to do a lot of the time.

In any case, just pick someone A1, lol.

It's the same as Kirby: lots of people can predict grabs and bairs, but does that knowledge actually protect them in the heat of a battle? Sadly, the answer is no.

I agree with you thrilla btw... here's hoping it's what you meant.

thrillagorilla · Jun 18, 2009

Kewkky said:
It's the same as Kirby: lots of people can predict grabs and bairs, but does that knowledge actually protect them in the heat of a battle? Sadly, the answer is no.

I agree with you thrilla btw... here's hoping it's what you meant.

Not quite. I mean that there is a particular animation that G&W has before a good amount of his moves that you can see before they come out. Again, this isn't his entire move-set, and a good player can get around that weakness, but its still there. Kirby has an entirely different set of problems, most notably air and ground speed.

Kewkky · Jun 18, 2009

thrillagorilla said:
Not quite. I mean that there is a particular animation that G&W has before a good amount of his moves that you can see before they come out. Again, this isn't his entire move-set, and a good player can get around that weakness, but its still there. Kirby has an entirely different set of problems, most notably air and ground speed.

well... Fair, nair, dtilt, utilt, grab and dair come out too fast for a normal human being to be able to notice it and shield/evade in time... Fsmash, dsmash, usmash and bair can be predicted easier because they CAN be seen a while before they're used.

Anyway, let's save it for the MU discussion! Waiting till A1 comes and decides...

A1lion835 · Jun 18, 2009

Wow, I haven't been here for 24 hours and there are so many votes xD I was hanging with my older siblings who came back from college a week or 2 ago.

We'll do G&W now, since he's interesting. I also think we should do ROB and Wario directly after this matchup. Anyway, I'll have more time to do this stuff next wednesday (school FINALLY ends!)

Kewkky · Jun 18, 2009

change the thread name, and send an invite to the General Discussion thread in the G&W boards, whoever you are 9the one who usually does it) :D

Lord Viper · Jun 18, 2009

☆ Mr. Game & Watch eh? I have a good amount of info on him, I'll be all over this match up. ☆

A1lion835 · Jun 18, 2009

I changed the thread name and alerted the g&w boards.

How do you do the g&w smilie? lol

Splice · Jun 19, 2009

You guys already know GaW has a bad matchup, so i'll just pointout some obvious points.
I do not know a lot about kirbys ATs, so i'll leave that to you guys, here is some basic GaW stuff.

Kirbys air game is good, but GaWs is better - His airials have more priority and range, however they MIGHT be slower than Kirbys, regardless they are better. However, sideb will come in handy, i am sure.

Also GaW is very mobile, and apart from the roll, spotdoge, and dash, GaW is faster than Kirby.
Off-stage he is hard to gimp, so dair and upb spikes (and others if you have any) will not work, unless the GaW is on high percent.

Kirby can do his little grab tactics on GaW, but im pretty sure GaW can interrupt them with a fair or bair, and because he is light i think he gets sent further away then most other characters, which might be a problem for chaining together airials, i dont know really >.<

Kirbys downb will be useful against GaW, as GaWs will use upb to punish a falling character sometimes, and kirbys downb can combat this. It is also a good killing move, and kills upwards, so I really suggest you try to set this move up at high percentage against a GaW so that you can kill him easily.

Kirbys upb can be bucketed by GaW, keep this in mind, and remember GaW cant bucket-brake with a full bucket, so maybe you can use this to your advantage. You could also use upb to fill the bucket and then punish the end-lag of the bucket.

Pros of this match-up
GaW is light, he can be killed upwards easily with UpB or Usmash
GaWs roll and spotdodge are bad, if you space well or think fast it should not be hard to grab him
On the ground kirby is faster than GaW. Worry about SH Bairs, though.
GaW, who is good at gimping, will have a little more trouble with kirby.
Kirby has good options to get off the ledge Vs. GaW, compared to others.

Cons of this match-up
Kirby is light, and GaW has powerful smash moves
GaW can bucket-break, however this does not work as well upwards (so try to kill him that way)
GaW can bucket upb. Do not let him fill this bucket unless you are having a really hard time killing him and can afford to do this. You could make him bucket by using Upb and then just punish that straight off, too.
Kirbys air moves do not outrange GaWs, and GaW is better in the air
GaW can techchase into smashmoves, i said that because well, its a pretty common tactic and it can cost the match.
GaW wont be easy to gimp, and also does better off-stage than kirby.
Dtilt will get annoying. It can cancel your Fsmash, and well, i dont think you will like it very much.

I wrote more cons for GaW than pros for kirby only because i dont of the cool things kirby can do.
i hope this is a good start, pretty much everything is right/not very wrong. some of the ideas in the first section might not be good tactics though.

Yeah. just wanted to try to help.
I like matchup thread discussion.

Also i assume you all know what bucket braking is.

:mad: · Jun 19, 2009

Splice said:
You guys already know GaW has a bad matchup, so i'll just pointout some obvious points.
I do not know a lot about kirbys ATs, so i'll leave that to you guys, here is some basic GaW stuff.

Kirby? With AT's? There's none to speak of.

Kirbys air game is good, but GaWs is better - His airials have more priority and range, however they MIGHT be slower than Kirbys, regardless they are better. However, sideb will come in handy, i am sure.

Can't argue with that. The only aerials that Game and Watch has that can beat Kirby are Bair and Dair. I seriously think Kirby's Uair beats your Dair, but I've been playing Melee for a week. Don't bug out if I'm wrong.

Also GaW is very mobile, and apart from the roll, spotdoge, and dash, GaW is faster than Kirby.
Off-stage he is hard to gimp, so dair and upb spikes (and others if you have any) will not work, unless the GaW is on high percent.

I laughed.

What does Game and Watch do better at than Kirby? Game and Watch has a faster falling speed, which really isn't that good. You only beat us in aerial speed, and even then you can just be air camp'd.

Kirby can do his little grab tactics on GaW, but im pretty sure GaW can interrupt them with a fair or bair, and because he is light i think he gets sent further away then most other characters, which might be a problem for chaining together airials, i dont know really >.<

Kirby's Uair and Utilt come out faster than either of those aerials. You're better off DJ'ing and not risking getting punished. Kirby doesn't have many grab tactics, and he can't chain together aerials. Don't know what Kirbys you're playing.

Kirbys downb will be useful against GaW, as GaWs will use upb to punish a falling character sometimes, and kirbys downb can combat this. It is also a good killing move, and kills upwards, so I really suggest you try to set this move up at high percentage against a GaW so that you can kill him easily.

His rock is terrible against anyone. Don't act like it's good.

Kirbys upb can be bucketed by GaW, keep this in mind, and remember GaW cant bucket-brake with a full bucket, so maybe you can use this to your advantage. You could also use upb to fill the bucket and then punish the end-lag of the bucket.

When will Kirby ever offensively use FC to the point where you can bucket it? @ the latter part: The end-lag isn't terrible, and not worth trying to punish.

Pros of this match-up
GaW is light, he can be killed upwards easily with UpB or Usmash
GaWs roll and spotdodge are bad, if you space well or think fast it should not be hard to grab him
On the ground kirby is faster than GaW. Worry about SH Bairs, though.
GaW, who is good at gimping, will have a little more trouble with kirby.
Kirby has good options to get off the ledge Vs. GaW, compared to others.

HOW DO YOU KILL WITH UP-B?! inform me plz. Usmash isn't that great of a killer, either. But it's not bad.

I don't worry about SH Bairs. I can just DI out if I don't already shield it.

Didn't know Game and Watch could gimp anyone short of Link and Ness.

Cons of this match-up
Kirby is light, and GaW has powerful smash moves
GaW can bucket-break, however this does not work as well upwards (so try to kill him that way)
GaW can bucket upb. Do not let him fill this bucket unless you are having a really hard time killing him and can afford to do this. You could make him bucket by using Upb and then just punish that straight off, too.
Kirbys air moves do not outrange GaWs, and GaW is better in the air
GaW can techchase into smashmoves, i said that because well, its a pretty common tactic and it can cost the match.
GaW wont be easy to gimp, and also does better off-stage than kirby.
Dtilt will get annoying. It can cancel your Fsmash, and well, i dont think you will like it very much.

Only thing worth replying to in this is your comment about how Kirby loses offstage. Not true in the least. Any of your GTFO moves have endlag, enough for Kirby to punish. Kirby can airstall, meaning you won't touch him offstage.

I wrote more cons for GaW than pros for kirby only because i dont of the cool things kirby can do.
i hope this is a good start, pretty much everything is right/not very wrong. some of the ideas in the first section might not be good tactics though.

no u.

Yeah. just wanted to try to help.
I like matchup thread discussion.

Also i assume you all know what bucket braking is.

how does u do this breaking ..

thrillagorilla · Jun 19, 2009

Straked said:
how does u do this breaking ..

Lol, Straked.

Splice said:
Kirbys air game is good, but GaWs is better - His airials have more priority and range, however they MIGHT be slower than Kirbys, regardless they are better. However, sideb will come in handy, i am sure.

The range on your moves is definitely an issue. Bair in particular can out range us and poke our already small shield. Our bair is on par with your fair though, and our u-airs are pretty close (not that it matters). I have no idea what makes side-b of any particular use in this MU unless you leave yourself WIDE open for it. Hammer is only useful as a surprise attack, not a staple. If you were talking about judgment, I would still have no idea what you are talking about, seeing that it has no lead ins that I know of, is random in it's effect and can be punished pretty easily if it whiffs. Please let me know if I am misunderstanding something.

Also GaW is very mobile, and apart from the roll, spotdoge, and dash, GaW is faster than Kirby.
Off-stage he is hard to gimp, so dair and upb spikes (and others if you have any) will not work, unless the GaW is on high percent.

I find this to be true. G&W is on par with MK and Sonic in terms of being hard to gimp, due to invincibility frames on his up-b.

Kirby can do his little grab tactics on GaW, but im pretty sure GaW can interrupt them with a fair or bair, and because he is light i think he gets sent further away then most other characters, which might be a problem for chaining together airials, i dont know really >.<

If by grab tactics you mean gonzo combos, then it doesn't really matter much because EVERYONE can get out of them. It doesn't stop a lot of what we can do, though. We can change our follow-ups if we predict you are going to try and attack us. Our d-throw is still just as beastly as ever too.

Kirbys downb will be useful against GaW, as GaWs will use upb to punish a falling character sometimes, and kirbys downb can combat this. It is also a good killing move, and kills upwards, so I really suggest you try to set this move up at high percentage against a GaW so that you can kill him easily.

I don't even need to check frame data on this one. If you get hit with Kirby's stone on the stage, its your own fault. It has massive start-up, little range and is very punishable. We won't use it unless we know it is going to hit. We have much better KO options too. Its not practical, much like side-b.

Kirbys upb can be bucketed by GaW, keep this in mind, and remember GaW cant bucket-brake with a full bucket, so maybe you can use this to your advantage. You could also use upb to fill the bucket and then punish the end-lag of the bucket.

I don't think up-b is a good idea in this MU (like most

). You have the air and land speed to punish it hard, and I can't think of any G&W players that won't try and keep an empty bucket in this MU. Kirby has options to KO before 100% (even if they are hard to land sometimes), and the brake is much more useful.

Pros of this match-up
GaW is light, he can be killed upwards easily with UpB or Usmash
GaWs roll and spotdodge are bad, if you space well or think fast it should not be hard to grab him
On the ground kirby is faster than GaW. Worry about SH Bairs, though.
GaW, who is good at gimping, will have a little more trouble with kirby.
Kirby has good options to get off the ledge Vs. GaW, compared to others.

Uh... I'm just gonna assume that Up-b is a typo. Yes on the u-smash, but there are no reliable ways to land it.

The bad thing about G&W's roll isn't that its slow per say, its that its predictable. You don't have to process much movement info to realize where he is going (which is why I say that being predictable can actually be taken into consideration in this MU) and we can punish accordingly.

I'm 100% positive that G&W is faster both in the air and on the ground. I already commented about your bair.

G&W's offstage game is much like Sonic's. Its good, but only right next to the stage. Kirby can stall pretty well off stage, and wait for a good chance to get back on without much issue. Also, if you try and chase us too far out, your options dwindle and ours stay the same, putting you at a large disadvantage. As for your ledge comments, this is true. G&W has decent off stage options right next to the stage, as well as good tools for pressuring people on the ledge.

Cons of this match-up
Kirby is light, and GaW has powerful smash moves
GaW can bucket-break, however this does not work as well upwards (so try to kill him that way)
GaW can bucket upb. Do not let him fill this bucket unless you are having a really hard time killing him and can afford to do this. You could make him bucket by using Upb and then just punish that straight off, too.
Kirbys air moves do not outrange GaWs, and GaW is better in the air
GaW can techchase into smashmoves, i said that because well, its a pretty common tactic and it can cost the match.
GaW wont be easy to gimp, and also does better off-stage than kirby.
Dtilt will get annoying. It can cancel your Fsmash, and well, i dont think you will like it very much.

Smash moves mean zilch if you can't land them. All of your smashes can be reacted to on sight, and as far as I know don't have any guaranteed set-ups. That being said, if you land one we are most definitely in trouble.

Your second statement is 100% correct. Just keep in mind that our most powerful kill moves have the capacity to kill off the top, even f-smash.

I don't know if you mean punish the lag from G&W using down-b or not, but I don't think we can unless we are right next to you. Besides, cutter's beam isn't useful in this MU in general. Also, there are no set-ups I am aware of for oil panic that are guaranteed, so...

Correct again.

Every character can tech chase, but thank you for mentioning your likely follow-ups.

Correct on the first part, wrong on the second.

Lol. Yeah, d-tilt is a great spacing move, and the likely-hood of landing it is better considering that we probably aren't going to be in the air due to your bair.

I wrote more cons for GaW than pros for kirby only because i dont of the cool things kirby can do.
i hope this is a good start, pretty much everything is right/not very wrong. some of the ideas in the first section might not be good tactics though.

Yeah. just wanted to try to help.
I like matchup thread discussion.

Also i assume you all know what bucket braking is.

I have to ask if you play mostly online. A lot of what you mentioned about Kirby is exclusive to online play, and isn't applicable to off-line.

That said, thank you for contibuting.

:mad: · Jun 19, 2009

Special thanks to TG for responding to the things I laughed at.

I laughed.

DarKirby · Jun 19, 2009

U-throw at high %'s for kills! Do it!

And when kirby sucks up GnW he looks AWESOME but plz restrain urself, DONT suck him up...those sausages are laughable.

GnW is lighter than u think! Anywayz yea grabbing is good, throws will get him scared.

Splice · Jun 20, 2009

oh yeah the upB was a typo, haha! I meant downb.
well, i read your post straked, and i think downb could work if you predict the GaW, which isnt hard to do, but then again downb does lag horribly.
And imo the bucket-lag is punishable, but then again your upb is pretty slow too. So yeah, you're right.
About offstage and air stalling, UpB reaches longer than you think, and a sweetspotted fair will hurt you real bad. Of course if it misses go ahead and punish us.
I don't know about this air-stalling business.

Other than that i cant disagree with anything, and am glad to have sparked some conversation.

To Thrilla
I used to play online but my GaW relies on spacing too much its not fun anymore... did i say stupid stuff?
Also, i dont Vs Kirby with GaW. I second him(outside of tournaments), and if you mean the downb, I dont find it amazingly hard to hit with. Also, i think sideb outranges our fair, and if you can see one coming, use it. Thats why i said it. Sorry if i am wrong, its much more likely than you being wrong haha. I dont know a lot about the technical side of things, i just wanted to give you something to work with.
And about landing smash moves, there are numerous set-ups. But im not going to argue about it, GaW is known to be predictable and your right about that.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, i guess because i land downb sometimes i assume its viable.

Huzzah. Just a reminder that i just meant to point out GaWs capabilities more than anything else.

xTrav8 · Jun 20, 2009

Splice said:
oh yeah the upB was a typo, haha! I meant downb.
well, i read your post straked, and i think downb could work if you predict the GaW, which isnt hard to do, but then again downb does lag horribly.

Your stone should only be used once a match, if that. It's a good mixup, but the startup gives your opponent more than enough time to dodge. Not worth it, bad move.

And imo the bucket-lag is punishable, but then again your upb is pretty slow too. So yeah, you're right.

Not very punishable at all. There's always the risk of getting hit by Oil Panic, and even if I were to spotdodge it, what could I do to punish? Ftilt? Awful.

About offstage and air stalling, UpB reaches longer than you think, and a sweetspotted fair will hurt you real bad. Of course if it misses go ahead and punish us.
I don't know about this air-stalling business.

Many of us are well-aware of the how far your parachute reaches. Just that having multiple jumps is much better than a simple DJ + parachute. We can airstall. Meaning we jump two or three times while airdodging, and we're untouchable offstage. A sweetspotted Fair has considerable end lag if you're offstage. Bair and Fair can punish that just fine, we can inhale your attempt at grabbing the ledge, and Dair if needed. This would be the better time to use stone because... well... you can't do anything about it. We'd be better off Kirbyciding, Dair, or inhaling.

Other than that i cant disagree with anything, and am glad to have sparked some conversation.

You can't disagree with anything? What if I said Game and Watch was a horrible, horrible character, and I'm ashamed for playing a game that even has him name mentioned in it, let alone his arsenal of ridiculously stupid moves? Feel free to disagree with that.

To Trav
I used to play online but my GaW relies on spacing too much its not fun anymore... did i say stupid stuff?

It's not that you said stupid stuff, it's just that the stuff you did say about Kirby was wrong.

Also, i dont Vs Kirby with GaW. I second him(outside of tournaments), and if you mean the downb, I dont find it amazingly hard to hit with.

Tournament results or it didn't happen.

It's very hard to hit with if you're playing someone that can spotdodge. My 9 year old sister gets hit alllll the time.

Also, i think sideb outranges our fair, and if you can see one coming, use it. Thats why i said it. Sorry if i am wrong, its much more likely than you being wrong haha. I dont know a lot about the technical side of things, i just wanted to give you something to work with.

It doesn't outrange you. It's best full-hopped to mindgame someone. Occasionally edgeguarding.

And about landing smash moves, there are numerous set-ups. But im not going to argue about it, GaW is known to be predictable and your right about that.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, i guess because i land downb sometimes i assume its viable.

I love you, too.

Huzzah. Just a reminder that i just meant to point out GaWs capabilities more than anything else.

You did more than just that, but thanks for playing. Go outrange someone your own size, you 2-D monster.

Lord Viper · Jun 20, 2009

☆ Mr. Game & Watch is still one of Kirby's hardest match ups to deal with, simpley because his hit box and Mr. Game & Watch's werid timing. The only way to beat him is to strike first or punish his attacks after he get's done since some of his attacks have strong ending or start up lag. I'll say 40/60 G&W or 55/45 G&W depending of what stage. ☆

DarKirby · Jun 21, 2009

Lol GnW discussion is dead. ummm idk?

Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

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