Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #5~ JigglyPuff

DFEAR said:

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Overall Character Ratio:
​

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Note: For experience, I've never played against a Jigglypuff in a tourney match, but in a tourney friendly. HOWEVER I love playing jigglypuff though I don't play her competively, I know her Metagame and how to play her.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Jiggly Puff's Ground Game

• Jigglypuff has a awful ground game in comparison to her air game
• Jigglypuff has little to none priority over Diddy
• Dash attack and ftilt is IMO her best ground attacks for damage [Frienlies I play Jigglypuff]
• Fsmash is her best ground killing move, but has long animation
• No Projectiles
• Lightweight

Diddy's Ground Game

• Ground game is one of the best in the game [Bananas, speed, ect.]
• High Mobility
• High Priority
• 2 Projectiles
• Faster than Jigglypuff

Note: Groundgame for Jigglypuff is really obsolete because good Jigglypuffs will not be on the ground for long this HURTS banana game but, you have peanut and Diddy flip

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Jigglypuff's air game

• Way better in comparison to her ground game
• Jigglypuff has LESS priority than Diddy's
• Jigglypuffs Fair is her best killing move
• Jigglypuffs bair is spammable
• Good Jigglypuffs are always in the air, this HURTS banana game
• Jigs SH Fspecial is a good move for Jigs to space you
• Jigs CAN and WILL try to gimp you

Diddy's air game

• Higher Priority
• All of Diddys air attacks are Good along with Jigglypuff
• Dsmash for spike
• Fair FTW

Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Jiggly Puffs moves to avoid

• Air: Fair, Bair, SH Fspecial
• Ground: Fsmash????

Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Diddy moves to Utilize

• Diddy FLIP!
• Fair
• Peanuts
• SH Banana throw

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Personal Strategies

• Honestly, I've only played one Jigglypuff in a friendly at a tourney and I never really had really any problems other than he's NEVER ON THE GROUND. Nothing to really sweat about just use Fair and Diddy Flip.

Overall Character Ratio:

hahahah never putting one of these again
200 : -100 Diddy favor​

NOTE TO DFFEAR: Are we not having a summary/decription/thesis on Character Analysis oN Matchup or just reading comments from people?

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It's definitely not that much in diddy's favor >.<, it's only 60-40.

80-20?

That's really, really, REAAALLLLLYYYYYY extreme.

Jigglypuff stays in the air constantly, and like Wario, you're probably not going to be getting many trips in. However, your bananas are still a projectile and they can still be used for momentum. Dribbling around to avoid Jigglypuff and upthrowing bananas is really good in this matchup, as are short hop and full hop banana throws. You can do things like throw a banana closer range at Jigglypuff and bait an airdodge or movement, and follow up with an aerial.

Jigglypuff is probably going to be more in your face without the fear of banana tripping. Her Pound has great priority and chips off a shield surprisingly well. Her fair does nice damage, has decent range, but overall is probably going to be used to kill or gimp you. Her bair is spammable, and nair hitbox lasts deceptively longer than you'd think. Dair combos to rest, and uair...is uair.

Her aerial mobility is definitely better than yours. On stage, you'll have to be worrying about pounds, bairs, fairs at lower percents (to keep it fresh for the kill), and nairs. If pound hits you, it sends you upwards, leaving you open for a uair. Her pound can also be angled up for horizontal survival, or down to surprise you and hit you if you're standing on the ground.

MFK and Monkey Flip in general are good in this matchup, mobility wise and priority wise. Your fair outranges everything she has, I forget if it gets outpriotizied by Pound, but other than that, you don't have to worry about it.

She can catch your bananas; her nair is a good aerial for doing so. However, she can't use them against you. She doesn't have a glide-toss, and an item cancelled throw is pointless because of her horrible ground speed and ground game in general. If she's able to trip you, it'll probably be followed up with pound or fair given the distance away you'd be. You're much better at getting your bananas back, though. A rocket-barrel cancel is worth trying at lower percents.

If she tries to use rollout, just jump and downthrow your banana. It doesn't have to hit her; she'll trip if she rolls over it.

Be afraid of her offstage. Wall of Pain (a combination of bairs, fairs, nairs) can carry you offstage and kill you if you don't DI. Recover like you would against MK; monkey flip if you're high above the stage, and charge rocket barrels if you're a flip's distance away from the ledge. She has faster aerial mobility than MK, so watch out. You don't want to recover close to the ledge, or you're screwed.

Her primary kill move is going to be fair in this matchup, however it often stales out, meaning you won't die for a long percent unless you get gimped or WoP'd. Dair to rest works for her, but try to DI out of the dair as best as possible to avoid that (and hopefully make her whiff her rest). Our primary kill moves will probably be fair and Fsmash (she most likely isn't going to be close enough to the ground for a Dsmash to hit her). Both of those moves may stale out also, so be wary. However, Jigglypuff is much lighter than Diddy, so you'll most probably be killing earlier.

I don't want to put numbers on this, but it's a close MU.

50:50 IMO, I'll post more later tonight.

80 20 say what?

This matchup isn't easy at all, especially if you don't know it.

Wow. I want to hear other people's thoughts on it though.

LOL, why do we keep avoiding the Falco match-up?

And also LOL at 80:20...it's not even that bad for Captain Falcon. Sorry, son.

Anyway, this is a synopsis I pasted and copied from the Jiggly Boards:

Le_THieN said:

At this point, there are perfectly valid arguments justifying either side simply due to the fact that this match-up is still somewhat rare and largely unexplored - even one year into the game. However, the more and more I acclimate myself to these uncommon match-ups, the more I believe that there are no left-field hard counters against Diddy Kong amongst the low tier cast.

There was a point shortly after last summer ended where I thought characters like Yoshi or PT could have gone even or possibly even have the advantage against Diddy. I've received extensive sparring practice against both thanks to Bwett and Chuck Nasty respectively, and I have since learned safe and proper ways to critically exploit cool-down on both characters in such a way that it neutralizes many of their approach options.

Similarly, there is a player in my crew who entertained the idea of using Jigglypuff against me as a counter for two or three months after I figured out ways around the MK, ROB and Olimar match-ups. I'm fairly certain I have seen everything Jiggz can do, as well as her gimmicky baiting tricks that involve her SDIing any of Diddy's multi-hit attacks and then interrupting with Rest, and have since figured out safe ways to use said attacks without the risk of instant death punishment.

And the best part of all? - Diddy doesn't even need banana peels to throttle Jigglypuff in this match-up. Virtually every attack in Diddy Kong's move set is superior to Jigglypuff's in every way imaginable. It just takes a couple of minor adjustments in the typical Diddy Kong rush-down game, and you can essentially get by with baiting and stuffing Jiggz' aerial approaches all day long.

Once you get over the shock value of being blindsided by random Rests and being WOPed off-stage by Jigglypuff's B-airs due to your own bad DI, there really isn't much left for Jiggz to contend with.

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PhatyCHONG said:

NOTE TO DFFEAR: Are we not having a summary/decription/thesis on Character Analysis oN Matchup or just reading comments from people?

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what do u mean xD i forgot

I'm just gonna re-post this since I already showed it on the main index b4 it got changed.

I got rid of what I think the overall match up is but you should listen to what I have to say since I main Diddy Kong and have one of the best Jigglypuffs.

Summary of character: If you thought Kirby and Mk were hard for Diddy, Jigglypuff will be your worst nightmare. In this match up, Jigglypuff will HARDLY EVER touch the ground. She has the second fastest aerial speed, has 6 jumps, and has the slowest falling speed. She also has this move called Pound where she can attack you on the ground with a huge amount of priority w/o having to worry about getting hit by your bananas. The most banana combos your going to get in this match will be no more than 3 if your lucky when playing a good Jigglypuff. The good thing about this match is that shes the lightest character in the game and you can easily kill her which makes up for not being able to hit with your smash attacks.

Air Game: The ground is your best friend in this match because if Jigglypuff gets you off the stage theres a good chance your screwed regardless off %. Whatever you do stay ABOVE Jigglypuff when she knocks you off. Jigglypuff has a super long sex kick which completely stops your b forward and guarantee the kill if it hits your rocket barrel .

Ground Game: If at any moment your somehow able to catch her on the ground immediately use your dash attack. Jiggs' ground game is super slow and she can't do **** especially out of your dash attack. Don't let her grab you though because she has some of the most damaging grabs in the game (each do 11% and a pummel does 3% each). Another thing to worry about is her d air, she can quickly jump and hit you with it and you better know how to DI it because if your at high % your going to get hit by rest. At lower %'s she'll mix her dair game up by either grabbing you after it or DI away after to make you do a U smash thinking that she'll try to combo you after it. The d air has diagonal hit boxes and its out there for a long time. Jigglypuff may not have a glide toss but shes very scary when she has a banana in her hands. If you try sheilding the banana she will follow up with pound which if your shield is less than 50% it will break giving Jigglypuff the chance to do a free fsmash or dsmash. If your near the ledge and you are playing against a smart Jigglypuff they will use the d smash and when that thing is charged your sent flying away and downwards from the stage and trust me after that you won't be able to recover. Jigglypuff can also follow up with Rest but that dosn't happen much since its to risky. I haven't mentioned this much because it shouldn't be something to worry about but don't forget about rollout. Although Jigglypuff will slip on a nana out of rollout and throwing a naner at her will stop her also if this hits you you will die if your above 60% and thats something you don't want. Jigglypuff can also reverse b the startup in the air so it might look like shes charging towards you but actually shes going to go the opposite way and then hit you after you mis timed your attack or jump. The safest thing to do here is stay in the air the whole time. If she's still charging and your out of jumps quickly fall and then jump again. Don't shield this because she can turn it 3 to 4 times which will either shield poke you or break your shield.

What to avoid: Basically being off the stage. Also some Jigglypuffs have mastered this but not many. This is going to be scarey but Jigglypuff can rest out of multi hit combos. Meaning she can rest you out of your Fsmash, U smash, and AAA jab. Never ever use these smashes against them if your at high % and you know your playing a good puff. I wouldn't be surprised if some even tried to trick you by purposely missing a rest just to hit you with rest easier.

What to use: Fair fair fair. It out priorities Jigglypuffs fair and all of her other moves. Of course its going to be much harder for you to time it correctly since you don't have the aerial mobility that Jigglypuff has. But you CAN beat her in the air.

Counter picks: Jigglypuff is bad at stages with short ceilings or stages where she can't gimp you. Bring her to places such as FD, Castle Siege, Halberd, and SV. Jigglypuff on the other hand, has a ton load of cps against you such as Japes, Brinstar, RC, Norfair, Lylat, YI, BF, and Frigate. Don't be afraid of Jigglypuff if she cps' with Delfino, its not THAT good for her and most of the time its very hard for them to hit with rest in the water. You have a dair which will kill them regardless of % and you have a better chance at hitting them with it.

Jigglymaster said:

I got rid of what I think the overall match up is but you should listen to what I have to say since I main Diddy Kong and have one of the best Jigglypuffs.

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No offense, but whether or not we should or should not listen to you is opinion. While it is helpful, you are not automatically phenomenal at a match-up simply because you have cross-training and experience with a match-up from both sides of the fence. My string of secondaries and fun characters include Marth, Kirby, Meta Knight, Lucario, Zelda, Sheik, Luigi, Falco and Donkey Kong; but that hardly makes me an expert at the match-up from either perspective. This is due to the simple fact that, even though I have used half of these characters in tournament at some point over the last year, none of them are as proficient as my main.

I bring this up solely to illustrate the point that I for as well as I know Marth, Kirby and Lucario for instance as characters in my own hands, simply using them as solid secondaries do not instantly make my knowledge of their respective match-ups against Diddy Kong insurmountable. They are still match-ups that need to be practiced, because there are a minutia of minor details about these match-ups that you would never know about unless you played other people who actually specialized in these characters.

Also, self-proclaiming that your Jigglypuff is one of the best Jigglypuffs around is kind of an overstatement - besides Thinkaman, I can't even name another Jigglypuff player that even has notable tournament standings.

That being said, I still firmly believe that this match-up is solidly in Diddy Kong's favor.

Le_THieN said:

No offense, but whether or not we should or should not listen to you is opinion. While it is helpful, you are not automatically phenomenal at a match-up simply because you have cross-training and experience with a match-up from both sides of the fence. My string of secondaries and fun characters include Marth, Kirby, Meta Knight, Lucario, Zelda, Sheik, Luigi, Falco and Donkey Kong; but that hardly makes me an expert at the match-up from either perspective. This is due to the simple fact that, even though I have used half of these characters in tournament at some point over the last year, none of them are as proficient as my main.

I bring this up solely to illustrate the point that I for as well as I know Marth, Kirby and Lucario for instance as characters in my own hands, simply using them as solid secondaries do not instantly make my knowledge of their respective match-ups against Diddy Kong insurmountable. They are still match-ups that need to be practiced, because there are a minutia of minor details about these match-ups that you would never know about unless you played other people who actually specialized in these characters.

Also, self-proclaiming that your Jigglypuff is one of the best Jigglypuffs around is kind of an overstatement - besides Thinkaman, I can't even name another Jigglypuff player that even has notable tournament standings.

That being said, I still firmly believe that this match-up is solidly in Diddy Kong's favor.

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I never said I was THE best Jigglypuff. Thinkamen, G-reg, and Bowyer all have better puffs than me but I'm just telling you I'm one of the better Jigglypuff players. A normal player wouldn't know as much about their character than I do with Jigglypuff, heck I even know more about Jiggs than I do know about Diddy. I'm an average Diddy main but an experienced Jigglypuff who dosn't main Jigglypuff. My thoughts on this match up are definatly not the law, but their worth reading.

hanson get on aim you *****

and LOL at this argument. Round and round we go!

lol never mind ;p

He's joking by far, lol.

Thinkaman you're going saturday to sloth2, yes?

Thinkaman said:

This matchup is easily 80:20 Diddy at least. Jiggypuff's jabs and tilts have no range, and even her smashes out out-classed in every category by Diddy's attacks. As if she wasn't already slow enough dashing across the ground, bananas totally kill her mobility. She has no projectiles, worthless special moves, and even shielding is hopeless due to the unstoppable pressure Diddy can apply. Trying to go grab-happy is jsut asking to be banana-combo'd. Once Didy has his banana's out, what can Jigglypuff possibly do?

In summary, L and R are useless, A is useless, B is useless, and Z is questionable at best. I might have forgot some other buttons, but they can't be important.

Hopeless matchup. G&W is beatable, but God forbid a Jigglypuff have to play a Diddy!

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But what about rising pound? You can't honestly say that the matchup is 8:2 in Diddy's favor. I thought that was one of Jigglypuff's EASIER (I didn't say wins the matchup) matchups.

If its a joke than nvm that post lololol

Count said:

He's joking by far, lol.

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rofl, sometimes i just can't tell sarcasm through the internet

rofl

10rofls

Sloth 2: Thinkaman's dominance or Count's revenge?!?!

Find out Saturday..

AvaricePanda said:

80-20?
That's really, really, REAAALLLLLYYYYYY extreme.

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Lol I knew this was going to happen
[I was Drunk at the time but I'm still sticking with my thesis and reasoning]

Count said:

80 20 say what?

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:D 75:25 more say. . .

ADHD said:

It's definitely not that much in diddy's favor >.<, it's only 60-40.

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Ouch you too ADHD. . . Reasoning?

What Jigs have you played worth note for experience in the matchup
Lol not questioning your greatness :D

Le_THieN said:

LOL, why do we keep avoiding the Falco match-up?

And also LOL at 80:20...it's not even that bad for Captain Falcon. Sorry, son.

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Well I was more focused towards 75:25 rather than 80:20 [more extreme]
Thinkaman is argueably one of the best Jigs and he agrees with me with 75:25 - 80:20

Also, no need to LOL and to call me "Son" . . . [its disrespectful] Mod or Not its a matter of Opinion. I've never lost to a jigglypuff. I play jigglypuff, I researched Jigglypuff. Experience against her or Not I will argueably say 75:25

P.S. I rather fight Jigglypuff than Captain Falcon, though they are not really a bother.

Player-1 said:

50:50 IMO, I'll post more later tonight.

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Olimar is 50:50. Jigglypuff is w/o any doubt NOT 50:50 with Diddy
just learn the matchup [as vague as that sounds]. . . and it might not be 50:50 for you :D

I would like to hear your reasoning though

Thinkaman said:

This matchup is easily 80:20 Diddy at least. Jiggypuff's jabs and tilts have no range, and even her smashes out out-classed in every category by Diddy's attacks. As if she wasn't already slow enough dashing across the ground, bananas totally kill her mobility. She has no projectiles, worthless special moves, and even shielding is hopeless due to the unstoppable pressure Diddy can apply. Trying to go grab-happy is jsut asking to be banana-combo'd. Once Didy has his banana's out, what can Jigglypuff possibly do?

In summary, L and R are useless, A is useless, B is useless, and Z is questionable at best. I might have forgot some other buttons, but they can't be important.

Hopeless matchup. G&W is beatable, but God forbid a Jigglypuff have to play a Diddy!

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YEAH!!!!!!!!! somone agreeded with me, and its one of the best JIGS!

PhatyCHONG said:

Olimar is 50:50. Jigglypuff is w/o any doubt NOT 50:50 with Diddy
just learn the matchup [as vague as that sounds]. . . and it might not be 50:50 for you :D

I would like to hear your reasoning though

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but I don't think Olimar is 50:50 either....

'Learn the matchup', that's great reasoning right there, especially since I can tell a jigglypuff player the same thing, and then guess what? You're back at square one.

Player-1 said:

but I don't think Olimar is 50:50 either....

'Learn the matchup', that's great reasoning right there, especially since I can tell a jigglypuff player the same thing, and then guess what? You're back at square one.

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Well I had reasoning about jiggs from the first post

Not arguing with you saying you "Don't know the matchup", but "Learn the Matchup" as stated earlier as a "vague statement" I don't know you maby you go even with jigglypuff? Jiggs is just TOO predictable, lightweight, less on priority saying Jig and Diddy is 50:50 [from quote below]. I strongly believe it is not 50:50 ANYWAYS. . .

Player-1 said:

50:50 IMO, I'll post more later tonight.

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I would love to hear it [not being rude] I'm sure it will help agaisnt the argument for Jugs vs. Diddy

to me this matchup is a competition of patience...sighs :\ i have fought jiggs before (not in tourney yet) and its just an annoying match. its winnable both ways. things jiggs really has against us is; her jumps, her ways to gimp diddy with nairs/fairs/WoP's, and her ability to air camp pro. tell me how to avoid the last few things and i think i got the matchup down o-o...peanuts ftw xD.

edit:
i would imagine though if the jiggly were capable of keeping themselves in the air the whole match plus learning to shield bounce and catch bananas properly they would have the edge o-o.

Honestly I want to hear your thoughts on the matchup, Phaty, on why it's so large of an advantage for us.

Because you said basic things about the matchup, but then said 75:25 which was a really surprising...and wrong number.

PhatyCHONG said:

Well I had reasoning about jiggs from the first post

Not arguing with you saying you "Don't know the matchup", but "Learn the Matchup" as stated earlier as a "vague statement" I don't know you maby you go even with jigglypuff? Jiggs is just TOO predictable, lightweight, less on priority saying Jig and Diddy is 50:50 [from quote below]. I strongly believe it is not 50:50 ANYWAYS. . .



I would love to hear it [not being rude] I'm sure it will help agaisnt the argument for Jugs vs. Diddy

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Maybe it's because the ONLY 3 Jigglypuff mains I have EVER fought were exceptionally good with her, but it was only on wifi (Puffster, Woodman, and another one I don't remember at the moment).

I got lazy and didn't feel like typing my matchup input yesterday, I'll do it later today.

PhatyCHONG said:

Well I was more focused towards 75:25 rather than 80:20 [more extreme]
Thinkaman is argueably one of the best Jigs and he agrees with me with 75:25 - 80:20
I would like to hear your reasoning though

YEAH!!!!!!!!! somone agreeded with me, and its one of the best JIGS!

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You DO know that he was joking right?


It CANNOT be an 8:2 or even a 75:25 matchup because of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc3qY43O5kw

Jigglymaster said:

You DO know that he was joking right?


It CANNOT be an 8:2 or even a 75:25 matchup because of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc3qY43O5kw

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Wifi doesn't count for anything, especially against a Diddy.

Who's going to be more effected by lag? The character that only takes spacing/smarts, or the character that takes both, along with tech-skill?

=|

I've played Thinkaman (one of the best Jiggs in the country) in tourney along with count. This is DEFINITELY NOT a 75:25 matchup.

The fact that she has six jumps, her aerials are good for catching bananas, and her entire game is based around staying in the air and attacking with aerials means that it completely kills your grounded banana game. Granted, this doesn't mean the matchup is automatically disadvantageous for us, but it certainly can't be 8:2 with that.

I honestly think it's pretty even (for reasons I've explained before).

And Wi-Fi does count; it's what players like Ally, ADHD, and Anti got good on. Granted, the lag is going to change things from online play, but you can't completely disregard it.

This matchup is 60 - 40, jigglypuff can simply catch the bananas >_>....

And lol @ diddys are game better than jiggs, thats got to be one of the biggest understatements in smash history.

LOL, I believe you mean overstatement.

Just being able to catch the bananas isn't the reason why the matchup would be in Jigglypuff's favor. It's more than that.

Mario can "just catch" his bananas, Luigi can "just catch" his bananas, Bowser can "just catch" his bananas, Yoshi can "just catch" his bananas, King Dedede can "just catch" his bananas...see where I'm going with this?

It's how effectively they can be used against a character; how easily the opponent can force the Diddy to lose banana control, and how the opponent character is actually played (if they're aerial or ground based) that makes banana game alter.

Jigglypuff touches the ground...every half second out of 10? The only time you'll ever reliably get a banana trip is if the Jigglypuff misses a rest. Your ground based banana game is nullified. You can still use the bananas to dribble for momentum and upthrow and possibly bait an airdodge, since they're still projectiles, but Jigglypuff's nair, dair, fair, and bair can all quite easily catch bananas. However, due to her horrible ground game, Jigglypuff can't really use them against you, and she'll hardly be able to pressure you with bananas. Honestly, a rocket-barrel cancel could be very much worth trying against her.

Point is, your entire ground-based banana game is completely nullified against Jigglypuff. This hurts Diddy. It doesn't mean he still can't do well in this matchup without bananas...but it definitely hurts.

At the moment I'm going to have to say slight advantage Jigglypuff. I've only played one Jigglypuff (in person) once so I don't have too much to input. Someone else?

Jigglymaster;7696744It CANNOT be an 8:2 or even a 75:25 matchup because of this. [url said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc3qY43O5kw[/url]

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Jiggly this is your quote in the video description
"1. This was wifi, but it was the ladder on AiB, still, it was wifi.
2. He won the set, close matches on both 2nd and 3rd. Not enough time to save replay though.

Other than that, this just goes to show one of Jiggly's better matchups against a top tier character. I'll take this video down if ADHD requests it."

This is ADHD quote in the video
"ugh LOL you recorded this? XD i needed sleep johns! how dare u!"


so your entire thesis of why Diddy vs. Jigglypuff by ANY means can't be 75:25
is because you beat ADHD 1 time in a 3 round set on wifi, friendly match, and ADHD didn't even know you where recording.

This is silly, it is NOT 75:25 phanty.

This should be enough reasoning for you.

I'm a diddy kong player with fairly good tournament results, probably about the same as a jigglypuff player, thinkaman.

Last tournament I was at, I mm'd thinkaman and won 2-1, he then beat me in brackets 2-0. We're pretty even as players. As even players, wouldn't it make sense for me to be constantly whipping him if his character is THAT much worse than mine. 75:25 is basically an 'impossible' matchup.


Play a good jigglypuff before you make claims as silly as these.

I have the matchup as around even.

sorry accidentally double posted.