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ROB OFFICIAL MATCHUP DISCUSSION: Sonic

Syde7

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So, after the lackluster Peach discussion, and with the rise of Sonic in the tier list + recent events, I thought maybe Sonic would be an entertaining matchup discussion and would warrant a bit more debate and such.

With that in mind, Sonic! Go.


So... as before:

ROB's Advantages:

ROB's Disadvantages:


Opponent's Advantages:

Opponent's Disadvantages:

What ROB should try to do:

How to do it:

How opponent can stop it:

What Opponent should be trying to do:

How they'll do it:

How ROB can stop it:

Counterpicks (what ROB should pick/ What opponent will pick {If you're someone contributing from another board})
Bans (what ROB should ban 1 via stage strike, 1 via personal ban)
Preferred Neutral (what ROB wants/ What opponent wants {If you're someone contributing from another board})

Ratio:

Plus, any anecdotes/explanations you wanna give.

GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO!
 

Darth Waffles

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100% Credit goes to Camalange for originally writing this. I play him too much XD. Most of this was written from the Sonic perspective but I threw some of my thoughts in along the way "-----my thoughts---"



Introduction

Although the former Robotic Operating Buddy is made up of plastic, never saves any princesses, or can break the sound barrier, he makes his debut in the Smash series as a Nintendo AllStar with Brawl’s release. ROB, who was once a mere toy, now makes a very impressive mark on Brawl with his advanced camping style, great recovery, and long ranged, fast attacks overall. He can be quite a pest and seem like a brick wall at first, but once you understand and learn how to punish his biggest weaknesses, the match up becomes much easier and is certainly winnable.

----Yes, this paragraph was absolutely necessary to copy and paste too---
Behaviour:

-ROB is a very campy character, so he’ll generally stay on one part of the stage, keeping you at bay with lasers and gyros. He should very rarely approach Sonic in this match up.
----True enough, whether or not your ROB is campy, you don't really have to approach Sonic if you can deal with him approaching you. It's just a little harder and a bit different in terms of dealing with him when you're the one attacking since ROB's aerials are "meh" and Sonic's speed is "above-meh"

-ROBs recovery works on a fuel system. When he runs out of fuel, he careens downwards to his death…however he has quite a lot of fuel. He can also do aerials while still flying. Most ROBs will recover high and try to bait you offstage, then just punish with Fair/Nair. Sometimes even launch gyros or shoot lasers from a distance. Anything to ensure a safe landing spot.

-ROB has a great projectile game, but his close combat isn’t to be laughed at either. Dsmash is a ridiculously fast punisher and will be used practically after every spotdodge. His tilts come out quick and have good range, so be wary. Utilt is great for juggling, and Dtilt/Ftilt are good for keeping space. Dtilt is fast, has low knockback, and a high trip ratio very good for starting up combos. Dtilt/Ftilt are very similar, and have very low cool down.

Commonly Used Moves:

Spotdodge/Dsmash – Almost always used after a spotdodge. It has a very fast start-up, hits multiple times and protects from all sides of his body (except for above) and has very little cool down. It’s more of a punisher, so it won’t be used to kill, it’ll be very stale. Make sure to shield all of the hits, and be wary if punishing OoS…remember, little cool down...don't try to beat them out.

-Lasers/Gyros – ROB doesn’t wait around and “charge” his lasers. He will pester you with the skinny beam and usually follow up with a Gyro. In addition, ROB has a nice glidetoss, so if you see one coming, make sure to shield the gyro, and hold shield to avoid any kind of “glide toss follow up”. (Keep in mind Sonic has a great glide toss too. Use this to your advantage. It’s very important to know how to control gyros) Dash attack picks up gyros (but not bananas lol) but make sure not to try and pick it up with a jab if it’s a “charged” gyro.

-Nair – Mainly used for punishing airdodges. It’s also used commonly if baiting you to approach from the air, then sneaking out a Nair. It starts up very slow, so try to beat it out early…but this move is very disjointed upon release, so don’t fall for the trap. It has huge range and multiple hits.

-Fair – Very high priority aerial, with good range. If ROB goes for a “Wall of Pain” DI AWAY FROM HIM. Trust me, don’t DI towards the stage…common sense, but it’s very easy to forget when you’re getting ZOMGRAPED.

-Bair – It’s similar to Sonic’s in the sense that it hits both behind, and in front of him. It can lead into, or end strange combos…very disjointed, but has pretty high start up lag.

How to Win:

Now, ROB seems to just be a down right prick, eh? Well, now’s the time to exploit the weaknesses!

UPAIR AND ASC!

Now…let me explain myself.

-Low Aerial Acceleration – ROB is very slow in the air. Sonic is very fast. Bam. ROB’s fastest aerials are Fair/Uair. Don’t try to beat out ROB from above him. If you’re coming from beneath ROB, Fair is avoidable too. Use one of your own rising Fairs.

-Large Hitbox – ROB is a very bulky character, and his head is one of his weakest points. It can only be protected with Fsmash or Lasers, which come out slow. ASC can **** ROB as a punishment move, you can even sometimes get a max 3 ASC hits.

-Put it all together and…? – ROB is slow in the air…and his all time biggest weakness is from below him. He can only protect himself with Dair and Nair, which both have very slow start up lag. Abuse the living hell out of this. When approaching ROB in the air, poke through with Fair. Fair is a great move in this matchup, but the biggest one is Uair. Even if ROB spaces Dair and gets the attack out, Sonic’s Uair, if properly spaced, will BEAT OUT ROB’S DAIR. Sonic will even look like he was hit and in the flames, but ROB’s Dair is one of his few not broken aerials. Sonic’s Uair will destroy ROB from beneath him.

Although you would think that Sonic would then **** ROB offstage if he trys to recover, you would be wrong. ROB can pretty much Fair/Laser his way back and other stupid things, but here’s the thing. ROB is vulnerable above you ON stage, but is vulnerable below you OFF stage. Why is this? ROB has low aerial acceleration (REMEMBER) so if he’s trying to rise up to the stage, Sonic can use a falling Fair, Dair, or even go for Bair stage spikes and be moderately safe, and putting ROB in an uncomfortable place.

And most importantly...

-DON'T TRY AND BEAT OUT THE TILTS -ROB will **** you from up close. It is very important to stay out of tilt range, but be close enough to camp you. We'll call it the "dead zone" (*copyright of KID, lol) It is very important that Sonic knows how to weave in and out of this dead zone to apply pressure and keep ROB on his toes. Remember, try and get ROB in the air to fight him, and attack from below. Pressure, pressure, pressure!

Recommended Stages:

Battlefield ----(for sonic), so I'd (ROB perspective) go FD if possible, then smashville. Not Lylat because the short sides will hurt you more than the tall vertical boundaries will help you---.

Matchup Summary:

This match will have a huge emphasis on how well you ---both of you--- use aerials ---without getting punished---, and how strong your edgeguarding/gimping game is. Not only that, it will test your skills at weaving in and out of midrange. Sonic is one of the few characters that actually has a chance gimping ROB, and harassing offstage. ROB’s projectiles are still a pain in the ***, and his tilts will outrange/**** yours, so Sonic is still most definitley at a disadvantage. ROB is also much safer than Sonic in ALMOST every situation, so Sonic must put himself at risk in order to be successful…now that’s for you the player to get creative with. Remember...mid range is where you fight ROB onstage. Get him in the air.

60:40 ROB

---my only other additions---
Watch out for anything that screams "LOLMINDGAMES". Charged forward smashes (or any smashes), getting hit with the spring, or even finding yourself standing there as Sonic runs BEHIND you and forward smashes you (or in front of you to a running pivot smash. Above all, don't even try to grab Sonic out of a spindash unless you KNOW what you're doing. Little damage like this adds up, as you should know all too well from having camped him. Best option is to shield it and get out of the way if you can. If you're too reliant on tilts to outprioritize spindashes, you'll end up eating ASCs and even ASC-backair. Work on projectile accuracy because it's a big part in this matchup.

Do NOT pull an Overswarm in this matchup, it just doesn't work against good sonics. Sonic can be more dangerous when you're offstage than you think. Save the "Benefits of Patience" stuff for Snakes, and Sonic can make it back from the stage from almost anywhere so be prepared. Learning how to deal with homing attack (lolHomingattacklol) is actually a big part in this matchup since ROB is so...well... ROB-ish sometimes. The biggest thing you can learn in this matchup is experience. Learn what you can punish and what you can't punish, not to mention where to counterpick. If Jungle Japes is at all possible, go there. Sonic is one of the (many) characters who have a footstool combo- theirs goes to a jab lock but it's highly situational and I wouldn't worry about it too much. I also like Frigate or FD, but again, you will not win this matchup if you rely solely on offstage camping or trying to beat out sonic's moves with tilts/smashes. Bans? Depends on your comfort zone. Anywhere from Battlefield to Brinstar on a regular list could be considered, since they're not the greatest for ROB anyway. Play smart and don't get hit =P

Oh, fun fact that I forgot to mention- you can actually grab sonic out of his spring (though you risk geting hit with an fair or something) and grab release him like Snake, but without the c4 troubles
 

Deadweight

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ROB's Advantages: Obvious things such as projectiles, range on all attacks, better kill moves. Better aerial game.

ROB's Disadvantages: We are too slow apparently =/. (And they can get under neath us easy-mode)

Opponent's Advantages: Speed, mind games (Blue ball etc) nigh-un gimpable

Opponent's Disadvantages: No reliable kill moves. Entire game relied around campy mind games (We camp better :#)

What ROB should try to do: Camp!. When he starts charging for one of his -b- moves throw out a gryo. depending on strength it either clanks or penetrates. Dont focus on gimping too much, his recovery is unpredictable at times :<

How to do it: Laser + Gyro. Dont get tempted to jump or side step when he starts chargin his b moves. THATS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO DO!!!!

How opponent can stop it: Not play sonic

What Opponent should be trying to do: Mind games! They seriously have the best mindgames of any other charachter. Its so hard to tell what the sonic is doing the first time you play vs him cause all his attacks look the same but do VERY different things =/

How they'll do it: Canceling b-moves, Jumping out of b-moves, up air -> spring -> upair combos

How ROB can stop it: Camp, force them to approach, and bat them away with ftilts :3

Counterpicks: Cruise? Idk lol
Bans Battlefield
Preferred Neutral FD

Ratio: 100-0 RoB for them making a mockery of Chibos thread :mad:



60-40 Rob
 

Camalange

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ROB is probably one of Sonic's hardest MUs.

ROB is almost always safer in every situation than Sonic is. ROB can force you to approach with his lasers/gyros, but that's actually not the hardest part. It's more of an annoyance really.

Sonic can easily close the gap between him and his enemy simply by running and PSing the projectiles (he's that fast >_>) but the problem is with most Sonics is...what to do when you're inside. ROB's tilts are much faster and have longer range than Sonic's, his Spotdodge/Dsmash is very hard to punish, and even his grab range is better than Sonic's. Sounds like we're totally out of luck...but Sonic does have his advantages.

Sonic's ASC (aerial spin charge) can get at ROB's "blind spot" which would be his head. ROBs Fsmash can cover this up, but otherwise Sonic can get in there pretty easily. A two-hit ASC can lead to a Uair/Fair combo which can rack up quite the damage (ranges anywhere from 20-40% depending on how well it is spaced/performed).

ROB is also easily juggled. ROB can keep Sonic away pretty well with his incredibly gay/disjointed Nair and Bair and his Fair is disjointed and can have a WoP effect (can be avoided if you DI away from ROB at higher %s) but overall his aerials come out pretty slow. Once Sonic gets ROB in the air, he can Uair/Fair juggle ROB rather easily because of ROB's start up lag on his attacks.

This is the hardest part for Sonics. Most want to punish ending lag...but that doesn't work at all against ROB. They have to get used to punishing START UP lag. Sonics HA (wowzomgitworksforsumthin??) is actually rather good at punishing the start up lag of firing a laser/charging gyro so use that WISELY. VERY WISELY. OR YOU WILL GET ***** BECAUSE IT'S STILL SONICS HOMING ATTACK...

Sonic fares pretty well against ROB offstage/air but the ground is a total lolfest for ROB >_> Sonic has to focus on getting ROB in the air and abusing him for his low aerial acceleration and slow starting attacks.

Also, if ROB tries to "plank the edge", it's incredibly easy for Sonic to run off and Bair stage spike. I don't advise it. Actually...anytime you're lingering around the stage with UpB against Sonic you'll most likely get *****.

This kinda gets into player habits...but if ROB is particulary spammy with spotdodge/dsmash as a defense mechanism, Sonic can wait for the spotdodge to end and punish with dtilt to keep him safe from harm. Now, when most ROBs do this they're usually punishing a laggy attack afterword with the Dsmash, but I noticed quite a few ROBs panic and just spotdodge/dsmash at close range.

Ban : Sonic doesn't really have any amazing stages to take ROB to...lol. However, I'd advise banning YI or RC.

CP : Frigate/Japes >_>

Overall...not a fun matchup for Sonic...at all. I say it's 60:40 ROB.

If I think of anything else I'll add on later. thoughts?

---

EDIT:

To add on to what Fishy posted, that's a bit outdated so...just take that post along with this to get my final observation on ROB.

Oh and of course...

Mindgames.

:093:
 

DDM

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I realize dair is a slower move for R.O.B., but does anyone know which has higher priority between R.O.B.'s dair and Sonic's uair?
 

Camalange

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Sonic's Uair > ROB's dair.

Outranges. Sonic's Uair is actually disjointed enough that it goes through the flames and hits ROB without harming Sonic.

:093:
 

Kinzer

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Ratio: 100-0 RoB for them making a mockery of Chibos thread :mad:
A mockery? Oh heavens no, I would think of it as more of an inspiration.

Because even though I know most of the community around me, I know there are lurkers/other people that I have no idea that they even exist.

Everybody could use some encouragement and enlightening every now and then, but please settle things with me, not hold any grudges with the Sonic community if there's any bad blood.

Good luck with that though, read my location.

...

I'm not going to say anything else on the topic at hand, I've only fought one R.O.B. a VERY long time ago, Wi-Fi doesn't count, and I'd rather talk about/go by my experience, rather than parrot what many others will say/my theorycraftng which anybody else could already do. Experience/knowledge which I do not have.
 

Syde7

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Good stuff so far. I have virtually *no* Sonic experience, and so I'm just taking it all in.

I also need to look up all the fancy lil' acronyms Sonics use for their stuff. I realize that its probably all different things out of a "spin" but, is there any "tip off" to know what is/isn't coming?
 

DDM

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Thanks Camalange. So ROB's dair spike is not a viable option for them.

Yeah, seriously. We have no issue with the ROB mainers. We were just hoping people weren't going to follow suit and start leaving Sonic (although I believe one guy has)
 

Camalange

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Thanks Camalange. So ROB's dair spike is not a viable option for them.
Well...I suppose it is if Sonic is getting really predictable with Spring O__o
But that's player predictability.

Yeah, seriously. We have no issue with the ROB mainers. We were just hoping people we're going to follow suit and start leaving Sonic (although I believe one guy has)
This.

However, I will continuosly make fun of ROBs because I just dislike the character <3

I need to rematch Chibo ^_^ Almost won and then I just got so **** predictable...hoping he comes in here soon with his thoughts since he seems to know a good deal about Sonic.

:093:
 

Darth Waffles

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Yeah, it's a little outdated since its debut post but almost all of it is still true. The upair/dair thing is actually in there =P

Is there any "tip off" to know what is/isn't coming?
Well.... not really. If you look closely enough, you can tell the difference between the two spins (side B and down B) from charging, but they'll both hit you anyway and they can both be affected or cancelled with jumps, aerials, or even shields (then grabs). That's why it's best to shield if you can, then get away (run, even roll, maybe spotdodge). You just can't rely on spotdodge because if you're predictable then you'll come back from it just in time to get hit with a spring, backair, or homing attack

@DDM. I've gotten a Dair on a sonic once in my entire brawl-playing lifetime. It was on the left side of frigate, first stock. The sonic wisely chose to L+R+A+Start and switch characters =P <3
 

Deadweight

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A mockery? Oh heavens no, I would think of it as more of an inspiration.
Ic
well then your title is a bit misleading :p
"Parody" usually describes a humorous or satirical imitation of a serious piece of literature or writing
Hence why i assumed it was a mockery :# :psycho:
 

Camalange

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TECHNICALLY the thread is labeled (parody, but not a joke either)

So...hm...

xD

:093:
 

Camalange

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All those videos are rather old with small name Sonic/ROB players. I'd prefer if people didn't use those to determine how the MU is played, considering we talk about at the highest levels of play.

:093:
 

Commander_Beef

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The biggest weapons for us in this matchup are laser, tilts, and neutral air. Abuse them! except neutral air...
Sonic can only really kill with back air or forward smash so he's pretty much in the same boat of the amounts of kill moves with us.
Definately in favor of R.O.B.
 

Browny

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umm i dont see any mention of it

If Sonic lands a spindash, he can SDJ-footstool-FFnair-jab lock across the stage, and then during the auto-get up animation, repeat the combo back across to the other end of the stage and punish that get up with a full spindash combo into fair. on a stage like FD this can do up to about 90% from 0.

Its kind of hard to do 100% of the time and im not sure if the jab-lock is DI-able (So ive heard... never seen it myself). At any rate... provided the emphasis you guys put on ZSS's infinite i think you shouldnt just ignore this, spindash is easier to land than zss dsmash >_>. its probably something you would only ever see from the very best Sonics though
 

Tenki

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Escape the N-air footstool set up
DI away from Sonic (opposite the direction he's coming from, or towards ROB's back).

;p
------------------

The only ROB I've played offline was ZOM~B.

In our last rounds in bracket, I avoided his N-air/B-air well, and for the most part, died above 170%, lol. Maybe matchup johns for his side - but I don't know if he'd played Umby often before I started going to their tourneys.

D-tilt, F-tilt, and jab are great spacers, but it can totally turn backwards for you if you try to keep Sonic at bay with them too often. Approaching with running/shield/pshield definitely covers/makes openings for Sonic when it comes to getting through spacing moves like that. Whenever ZOM~B tried to D-tilt>D-tilt/F-tilt to space my run, I went for shield > pshield > punishment.

Sonic's baiting/punishing game is best on the ground. Alot of my kill moves are landed on ground movements. Love spotdodging? You're giving us F-smashes/B-airs. Rolling? Giving us F-smashes. Airdodging into the ground? F-smash. lol. That aside, Some of ROB's moves extend his hitbox and give things like stutter step F-smash a chance to counterattack.

He's more limited in the air, so you can actually rack damage through edgeguarding and camping landing points (ex, when Sonic is trying to spring and float back).

Strangely enough, in our last matches, the things that I remember getting damaged the most by were projectiles (lol screw me for committing to moves - he racked up damage shooting lasers at me when I went for side-B recoveries) and, not D-tilt or F-tilt, but U-tilt. wtfutilt. He camped landings and jumps with U-tilt and I just kept getting caught since I didn't want to airdodge into a smash/didn't know its range rofl.

I'm not really sure what to say about the matchup. I can't really judge if I was just avoiding kill moves too well or if ZOM~B just didn't know the matchup. It really seems like a grounded playstyle focused on blocking can really get past ROB's 'walls', thanks to Brawl's little shield stun. I kind of got the idea from Holy when he was talking about how Ally was too good at blocking, so I pretty much focused on learning ROB's melee range and being ready to shield a startup move and pshield followups XD.

more of a player thing, really.
 

ZOM~B

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For the record Tenki, ROB just has issues landing kills :p

I've played Umby's Marth more than I've played his sonic.

It's important to note that ROB lives to like 200%+ too though.
 

Syde7

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ROB counters sonic
Well, that sums it up. Discussion closed. ROB counters Sonic. No need to discuss it further. Pack it in, guys. Take down the tents. </sarcasm>

But, anyway- good discussion goin' thus far. As I said, I don't have very much exp with the matchup, so anything I would say would be simple theory-crafting from someone who is unfamiliar with the MU, so, it would be essentially useless.

Another question: I know you can beat out Sonic's spinny shenanigans with tilts and jabs and whatknot, but are F-airs viable as well? I've done it before, but the success rate seems to be... low.
 

Darth Waffles

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TBH, with all of the sonic stuff I've played against, I don't know if i've ever tried to F-air. From what I do know, though, I wouldn't recommend it (and I'll try to find out tonight). That's because Sonic's spindashes make him small enough that for Fair to hit it would have to be pretty close to the ground. It just takes awhile for ROB to jump, throw out an fair, and fastfall it to get there in time. I'll see if it works tonight and let you know but I also know that Sonic can just jump over-back air if they react fast enough (since you'll need a lot of time to jump and fair anyway so they can see it coming). Sonic's just fast like that =P I still think shielding or getting out of the way is better. It's an annoying matchup for both sides lol
 

Syde7

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TBH, with all of the sonic stuff I've played against, I don't know if i've ever tried to F-air. From what I do know, though, I wouldn't recommend it (and I'll try to find out tonight). That's because Sonic's spindashes make him small enough that for Fair to hit it would have to be pretty close to the ground. It just takes awhile for ROB to jump, throw out an fair, and fastfall it to get there in time. I'll see if it works tonight and let you know but I also know that Sonic can just jump over-back air if they react fast enough (since you'll need a lot of time to jump and fair anyway so they can see it coming). Sonic's just fast like that =P I still think shielding or getting out of the way is better. It's an annoying matchup for both sides lol
My fault, I wasn't entirely clear. I meant when they do either HA, or spindash stuff in the air, before they jump and such. Or, if they choose to follow something up with a HA.
 

Darth Waffles

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I've found that fair doesn't really work because they'll use HA in one of two (possibly three) scenarios. One, they'll do it as a follow-up to a spindash (not common once you learn to get out of the way and attack back, but it can get you if you're not used to it), in which case Sonic will be pretty much directly above ROB and out of fair's range. If they're using it like this, they'll be so close that you won't have time to fair anyway. Two, they'll use it as a way to get onstage/recover (three is from a low height trying to shoot up, but getting invincibility frames or being far enough away will cause HA to shoot down uselessly). Fair just doesn't work, for me at least, because, annoyingly enough, HA launches Sonic in an outward arc that always seems to hit ROB in-between where fair goes and where uptilt/upair goes. If only Upsmash had just a little horizontal hitbox it would work great here =P.

Personally, I just have horrid luck against that attack, though I'm sure there's an easy solution to punish it besides just running away. Maybe it's just me, but I can't shield>uptilt it, or float down (then HA launches) then immediately double jump and Fair. My best guess to outright punish it would be to time an nair, REALLLLY early. Like, as-soon-as-you-see-it early. This is because you need the time to deal with the start up lag, the flip, and the fact that the hitbox is behind where ROB is actually facing. I don't see why this wouldn't work but just know that if you do it even a little late, it'll look like you should hit Sonic but then ROB will take the hit instead.

With regular spinning attacks in the air (Sonics have so many acronyms it's confusing) fair can beat them. Back air is great too since it creates a wall and pushes you away from a possible spring dair. I hate homing attack too, even if it's deemed the worst, most obvious move in the world. Have I mentioned that? When dealing with the aerials you always want to be just inside the "dead zone" mentioned in the first long post, right where fair will *just* connect. If Sonic makes the first move in the air, try to keep the same "F-air distance" apart, jumping back if you need. If you make the first move, protect yourself with backair if sonic airdodges through you or follow up if he jumps back.
 

Camalange

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ROBs fair works best at low %s to "combo" but at higher %s, Sonic can get out really early if he DI's away properly. If he DI's TOWARD ROB then he'll get utterly destroyed, lmao don't know why Sonic would do that though.

Fair I'm pretty sure outranges most of Sonic's aerials and is a good GTFO move, the problem is though that Sonic is usually attacking from UNDERNEATH ROB, where Fair won't reach.

:093:
 

Tenki

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For the record Tenki, ROB just has issues landing kills :p
really ? lol

You're the only ROB I've played offline.

When I played ROBs on wifi, I'd always die to some N-air BS at like 120-150% cause I'm awesome at spacing that online yeaaa


ROBs fair works best at low %s to "combo" but at higher %s, Sonic can get out really early if he DI's away properly. If he DI's TOWARD ROB then he'll get utterly destroyed, lmao don't know why Sonic would do that though.

Fair I'm pretty sure outranges most of Sonic's aerials and is a good GTFO move, the problem is though that Sonic is usually attacking from UNDERNEATH ROB, where Fair won't reach.

:093:
Another question: I know you can beat out Sonic's spinny shenanigans with tilts and jabs and whatknot, but are F-airs viable as well? I've done it before, but the success rate seems to be... low.
Retreating F-airs can edgeguard Sonic pretty well.

Sonic can travel the furthest if he does Side-B > double jump > spring. You can keep attacking him out of side-B (provided he doesn't time it for invincy frames) and even better, hit him after he double jumps (Sonic without double jumps is REALLY easy to gimp lol)

Anyway, I only really use spindashes if...
1) my opponent is being panicky and likes to spotdodge/throw out laggy moves (shield cancel baiting/punishing said moves)
2) recovery
or 3) I'm being panicky and forget everything about playing Sonic like a Sonic main.

Since spindashes are such a horrid and easy to punish/outprioritize approach that doesn't let Sonic dodge or shield. And I'm not even being sarcastic about that. They're a disgusting approach unless we get on a stage that lets us use invincible ones (and even then, they're still pretty bad) XD

But, notably, if you have a gyro in hand, you throw too high to hit us when we're in spindash, so lol.

Sonic's just fast like that =P I still think shielding or getting out of the way is better. It's an annoying matchup for both sides lol
Shielding, D-tilting, or jabbing. yeah.

Alot of Sonics like to jump after landing a spindash, so if you shield it, you can hop a U-air or N-air, depending on their jump/aerial habits.

--------------

On ROB's F-air:
so yeah, I was living to like 180-200%, and I got killed by F-air.

-------------
On Killing Homing Attack:

You can try charging a u-smash if you're confident, or shielding it and immediately doing a FH/DJ N-air OoS to counter it with a kill.
 

Syde7

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really ? lol

You're the only ROB I've played offline.

When I played ROBs on wifi, I'd always die to some N-air BS at like 120-150% cause I'm awesome at spacing that online yeaaa
Dun feel bad. A fresh N-air kills around that range anyway depending on range. But, if you got KO'd bc you just spaced poorly or were telegraphed, then yah, feel bad. Lol. It happens to us all, though!







Since spindashes are such a horrid and easy to punish/outprioritize approach that doesn't let Sonic dodge or shield. And I'm not even being sarcastic about that. They're a disgusting approach unless we get on a stage that lets us use invincible ones (and even then, they're still pretty bad) XD
Invincible? o.O Shows how much I've studied the Sonic matchup, or Sonic in general. I *really* am going to have to go through you guys' board and do some hxc studying.

Alot of Sonics like to jump after landing a spindash, so if you shield it, you can hop a U-air or N-air, depending on their jump/aerial habits.
Good to know. In my limited exp with Sonic (and, I think I might have played you on wi-fi like... MONTHS, and I do mean MOOOONNTTHHHSSSS ago) I remember seeing that a time or two. (If it wasn't you, my apologies! As I said, it was a long time ago. Lol)

--------------

On ROB's F-air:
so yeah, I was living to like 180-200%, and I got killed by F-air.
Yay random F-air kills bc N- and B- airs are sooo decayed! lol. I know itrs really random to get outright KO'd by an F-air, haha.

-------------
On Killing Homing Attack:

You can try charging a u-smash if you're confident, or shielding it and immediately doing a FH/DJ N-air OoS to counter it with a kill.
Aah, thanks a ton.
 

ZOM~B

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Fairs aren't killing because nair and bair are decayed... fairs are killing because *sonic is too fast to hit with a slow move like nair, and bair is not a valid approach against a smart player*
 

Syde7

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Also, another thing- I would assume that B-airs are pretty much out of the question in general as a "Oh lawd, i just got hit with this silly spinin' blue ball and stuff, lemme see if I can get some damage in"?
 

Browny

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tenki what do you mean simply 'DI away'

I mean, its easy to reverse the direction of the jablock set-up, DI'ing in the direction sonic is coming from shouldnt make a difference since you can do it forwards or backwards. if ROB forces himself to go backwards, that just means that Sonic doesnt have to bother about DI'ing himself :/
 

Tenki

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tenki what do you mean simply 'DI away'
like, Sonic is coming from the left, ROB DI's to the right.

but as for the likeliness of that happening...

..???

Fairs aren't killing because nair and bair are decayed... fairs are killing because *sonic is too fast to hit with a slow move like nair, and bair is not a valid approach against a smart player*
That's truth.
Also, another thing- I would assume that B-airs are pretty much out of the question in general as a "Oh lawd, i just got hit with this silly spinin' blue ball and stuff, lemme see if I can get some damage in"?
I wasn't aware that B-airs were used to actually approach though lol.

They need some kind of conditioning if you want them to hit- like if you float to the side and make them barely miss their attack, you can 'counter' with B-air. Or if you condition them to spotdodge or grab, you might be able to.

that's all in the mindgames department though.
 

da K.I.D.

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when i played chibo, he would rar bairs, and it kept him from the vast majority of stuff i could do. especially since, he could camp me with lasers and gyros so i had to approach, so whenever he saw me getting close hed just bair to get a hitbox out while he ran away. ended up being retardedly effective

theres vids of him fightign mine, camalanges, and malcolm's sonic and beating us all on youtube
 

Tenki

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As long as the gyro's not on the floor, I wouldn't imagine it to be too hard to either shield/pshield the retreating B-air, or just stop short of it and restart to punish its ending/landing lag offline.

iono, confirmation on how possible that is would be great.
 

ZOM~B

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Bair is a pretty good brickwall tactic. Sonic might be fast enough to punish it, most characters just have to kind of move forward, eventually ROB runs out of stage.
 

Deadweight

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As long as the gyro's not on the floor, I wouldn't imagine it to be too hard to either shield/pshield the retreating B-air, or just stop short of it and restart to punish its ending/landing lag offline.

iono, confirmation on how possible that is would be great.
There isnt any landing lag to B-air :D
I usually go
Bair-> Bair ->Ftilt ->Laser ->Gyro
Mixin it up yo
 

Darth Waffles

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Bair is great as a wall for ROB especially if you can fast fall it.

It's not an absolute necessity here like it is for wario but it's definitely something to abuse.
 

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Well I rematched Chibo and went even with him.

Won first, lost 2nd, and lost 3rd match because of a **** Usmash after us being at the last stock, same percent. That's pretty much how each match went, except I won the first xD

KID, those matches should be on YouTube soon which depict a far more accurate version of how the MU should be played. ROB just kills Sonic sooner...

:093:
 

da K.I.D.

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^^^ this is the foremost expect sonic player on the sonic ROB matchup, losing to a guy that doesnt even practice his ROB matchup against sonic because he believes the character is that garbage...

ROB counters sonic imo
 

Camalange

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I'm not quite convinced though that it's a counter...Wes was able to beat him and I took a match off, and each match was close enough that it could've gone either way...

but at the same time...you're right about how I practice the MU and still lose to someone who doesn't practice it that much at all...meh...iunno.

It's definitely one of Sonic's hardest matchups, if not the hardest...maybe counter : /

Like, it's not even the spam or anything that makes it so hard...its the fact that ROB is so much safer more than half of the time and that it's so hard just to land a kill move...which was already a problem with Sonic.

:093:
 
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