Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #6~ Zero Suit Samus

DFEAR · Jun 30, 2009

Discuss ZSS. Input as MUCH info as needed + the following.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Overall Character Ratio:

TreK · Jun 30, 2009

oh common, people prefer debating birds to chicks ? :o

The obvious stuff ->
ZSS mains are usually good at using items so expect bananas to be used well against you if they pick up some, with tons of mixups, traps and stuff just like we do ; so don't give em :o
But we're good at it too, and armor parts are awesome so if you pick one, pwn her (shield bouncing is a great trick in this matchup)
You destroy ZSS when you get her to the ledge. You have one or more option to punish each of hers, that's why I love to continue my banana locks until she falls off the ground.
I asked the ZSS mains to visit us and discuss, btw ^_^
not sure, but it looks like our dash attack is pretty safe. Their frame data is on another site and the link I found is broken ; so I can't really check.

Couldn't add anything else, ZSSes are soooo hard to find here

+ yours are better, so I'll stfu 8D

ph00tbag · Jun 30, 2009

If only Diddy didn't have bananas. ZSS should generally beat diddy's ground and air games from air or ground, otherwise, but well-placed bananas are ZSS's downfall. She can't space her approaches and retreats right, because bananas get in her way. So definitely pitch bananas and tents in this match-up.

If she does manage to get ahold of a banana, though, be careful. ZSS has some tricks up her sleeve when it comes to bananas. If she slips on a banana, she can roll and pick it up before it lands, and if she hits you with a banana, be expecting a trip -> dsmash combo. Other things she'll do off of a trip are dash attack and grab.

Generally, though, if you're doing the right things, ZSS grabbing one banana should be opening enough for you to attack her with another banana. Make sure you have two, definitely, because one banana gives ZSS too many opportunities to screw around with you if she gets control of it. If she somehow gets both bananas, you should definitely stop playing around and step it up.

I believe we have it as 60:40 over on our board, mostly because of what ZSS can do if she catches Diddy with his pants down. If Diddy had pants.

Teneban: have you played Charby? He's not bad. Not better than Dazwa, Snakeee or Riddle, but still up there.

Nefarious B · Jun 30, 2009

No way is this 60-40 us. Snakeee needs to get in here since he's played ADHD some, but I thought we agreed it was pretty even or maybe a slight disadvantage for us on our boards.

Player-1 · Jun 30, 2009

Nefarious B said:
No way is this 60-40 us. Snakeee needs to get in here since he's played ADHD some, but I thought we agreed it was pretty even or maybe a slight disadvantage for us on our boards.

I may have been misinformed or something, but didn't Snakeee pick up Peach for this matchup?

Count · Jun 30, 2009

Snakeee plays peach vs me on wifi. It's definitely diddy kongs advantage, probably slightly though

ph00tbag · Jun 30, 2009

Nefarious B said:
No way is this 60-40 us. Snakeee needs to get in here since he's played ADHD some, but I thought we agreed it was pretty even or maybe a slight disadvantage for us on our boards.

As I recall, Snakeee got wrecked by the last Diddy he went up against.

Player-1 · Jul 1, 2009

ph00tbag said:
As I recall, Snakeee got wrecked by the last Diddy he went up against.

aka AZ at COT4?

ADHD · Jul 1, 2009

55-45 in diddy's favor. Yeah, i camp so ****ing hard in this matchup it's hilarious. i made snakeee rage quit but lets not go into the stocks i had over him in the end XD

TreK · Jul 1, 2009

phootbag, about charby -> not yet, maybe on satursday. I need his help to get csp's to work too btw D=

Snakeee · Jul 1, 2009

ADHD said:
55-45 in diddy's favor. Yeah, i camp so ****ing hard in this matchup it's hilarious. i made snakeee rage quit but lets not go into the stocks i had over him in the end XD

I still beat you the week before

It's ok I'm cping V-13 next time, she outcamps him soooo bad.
Also, I heard she can banana - Astral Finish.

ADHD · Jul 1, 2009

I'll write something about the matchup now lol.

Zero suit wins if you approach her because of all her defensive capabilities as a character, but if you just simply stay back and camp peanuts with a banana in your hand it forces her to approach since her non-armour projectiles are very slow. She as a character has no options for countering diddy's camping; I would suppose that's because of how rigid her moveset seems up-close. Just watch out for the side b, and dsmash. Always ban rainbow cruise btw, just do it lol.

Player-1 · Jul 1, 2009

ADHD said:
Always ban rainbow cruise btw, just do it lol.

no .

PhatyCHONG · Jul 1, 2009

*First page reserved*

will edit later:

DFEAR · Jul 1, 2009

v-13 is utter trash, can u guess whos better? =P

btw catch armors :3

Snakeee · Jul 1, 2009

DFEAR said:
v-13 is utter trash, can u guess whos better? =P

btw catch armors :3

V-13 ***** Rachel

And yeah Diddy definitely wins this match up if he plays it right. ZSS can hold her own however, if she plays EXTREMELY patient, and uses the bananas well herself.

Bellioes · Jul 1, 2009

Wow, learned a lot from the past posts

Anyways, I have something to contribute; watch out for ZSS item game. Your opponent could be just as skilled with items as you (Instant throwing, zcatching etc) I also know that ZSS can dribble so I wonder if she can do the dribble back to dsmash to stop our approches sort of like how we dribble back to fsmash to destroy approches like Luigis and Sonics.
But if you camp, thats irrelevant so Ill see how that works for me next time I face a Zamus.

DFEAR · Jul 1, 2009

Snakeee said:
V-13 ***** Rachel

And yeah Diddy definitely wins this match up if he plays it right. ZSS can hold her own however, if she plays EXTREMELY patient, and uses the bananas well herself.

v-13 can be used in a very broken way if the opponent cant handle sword projectiles lol...id say the matchup is even with rachel and arakune (all the top tiers to me are even)

@matchup:
cant the matchup go in favor of diddy then if diddy would play just as patiently? can u help me against side b : < that one move alone is like ugh sighs..IT GOES THAT FAR!?

PepsiMista · Jul 1, 2009

DFEAR said:
v-13 is utter trash, can u guess whos better? =P

btw catch armors :3

We throw away 2 of them in this matchup..... if youre talking about ddk vs ZSS

Anyway, this is 60-40 Diddy Kong....
I SOOOOO wanna ssy 55-45 diddy.

DFEAR · Jul 1, 2009

why throw them away? wouldnt it be better to utilize all the pieces as much as possible? each throw when connected is like 10%+? plus it can actually kill 80+% o.o thats too important of a piece in my mind to throw away.

i can understand we can use them hardcore or w.e but still.

b1anK · Jul 3, 2009

60-40 Diddy kong

camp hard = win

If ZSS get's control of nanerz though it can mean trouble for diddy

shield is your best friend in this matchup

Snakeee · Jul 3, 2009

DFEAR said:
v-13 can be used in a very broken way if the opponent cant handle sword projectiles lol...id say the matchup is even with rachel and arakune (all the top tiers to me are even)

@matchup:
cant the matchup go in favor of diddy then if diddy would play just as patiently? can u help me against side b : < that one move alone is like ugh sighs..IT GOES THAT FAR!?

If you have 360 play me on live my gamertag is ZSSnake (lol). Also, I'm told that I'm one of the few "Nu"'s that don't just spam drive the whole time lol

And Diddy should definitely try to get control of the pieces if he can. However, I usually throw away at least 2 of them.

ADHD · Jul 3, 2009

Snakeee said:
If you have 360 play me on live my gamertag is ZSSnake (lol). Also, I'm told that I'm one of the few "Nu"'s that don't just spam drive the whole time lol

Oh my god you're such a nerd!

Ingulit · Jul 4, 2009

Once Diddy gets into the ~40-60% range, he should keep a Banana behind him at all times, ESPECIALLY on walk-off stages. In those percents Zamus can use repeated buffered Dash Attacks against you, and until you get to the end of the stage, YOU CAN'T GET OUT (Banana in hand or not, you just can't). I've been killed by my friend at least three times on Castle Siege from this trick alone, and it tacks on a good chunk of damage on non-walk-offs as well. It's a rather specific percentage range, but it's still something to look out for.

DFEAR · Jul 4, 2009

ps3 sorries :\...i still dont understand why throw away useful ammunition but its ur style o.o.

dealing with matchup: is all of zss down b kick frame animations a spike?

Ingulit · Jul 4, 2009

DFEAR said:
dealing with matchup: is all of zss down b kick frame animations a spike?

Only in the first few opening frames of the attack. After that it's just a strong *** high-priority attack, but no spike.

DFEAR · Jul 4, 2009

ok good to know. can i fair her out of it?

Snakeee · Jul 4, 2009

DFEAR said:
ok good to know. can i fair her out of it?

Pretty sure you can't with it's range, but you can hit her after the flip part since theres pretty significant lag in between that and the attack.

Popertop · Jul 4, 2009

I thought it had invincibility frames?

Ingulit · Jul 4, 2009

Popertop said:
I thought it had invincibility frames?

A few frames at the beginning of the flip, I think.

DFEAR · Jul 4, 2009

Popertop said:
I thought it had invincibility frames?

thats what i thought so i never approached when she flipped during recovery.

and does it have the same properties as diddy's side b in terms of recovering?

jump+down B (our sideb)+ upb (just in case?)

cuz sometimes i swear zss has a 2nd jump xD and i see her jumping from such extreme horizontal lengths

Ingulit · Jul 4, 2009

DFEAR said:
thats what i thought so i never approached when she flipped during recovery.

and does it have the same properties as diddy's side b in terms of recovering?

jump+down B (our sideb)+ upb (just in case?)

cuz sometimes i swear zss has a 2nd jump xD and i see her jumping from such extreme horizontal lengths

A Zamus recovering from a far distance would probably use a boosted second jump--Second Jump while using Up-B for extra height, I don't know the technical name for it--, their Down-B flip, and then either Up- or Side-B depending on how horizontal or vertical they are with relation to the edge. Boosting the second jump really sends her flying O.o

EDIT: Oh, if you mean can Zamus use Up-B after she kicks, then yes, she can (I wish we could

)

Snakeee · Jul 4, 2009

Popertop said:
I thought it had invincibility frames?

There's a significant amount of frames in between the invincibility of the 'flip' and the attack. However if she footstools instead there is hardly an opening there.

Popertop · Jul 4, 2009

Snakeee when are you coming down to Texas?

Snakeee · Jul 4, 2009

Popertop said:
Snakeee when are you coming down to Texas?

uh not sure lol. Maybe when I have the money?

Popertop · Jul 4, 2009

lol, then quit being lazy and win every tourney up there :laugh:

DFEAR · Jul 7, 2009

phatychong never edited his post...commited much to ur character? cmon i know u want those awesome man points!

im seeing 55-45 diddy in this.

ph00tbag · Jul 10, 2009

Snakeee said:
There's a significant amount of frames in between the invincibility of the 'flip' and the attack. However if she footstools instead there is hardly an opening there.

You can still attack ZSS while she's flipstooling, though. It's harder, but it can be done.

Supermodel From Paris · Jul 10, 2009

We have it listed as 6:4. I think it's somewhere between 6:4 and 5.5:4.5 Diddy's favor. Like the others have said, without Bananas we do fine, once the bananas are in play things become difficult. We do have a good banana game of our own though.

By the way: real experience in this match-up is hard to get for Diddy mains because if you come across a ZSS main who doesn't know the match-up you will destroy them. A ZSS who does know the match-up will be a lot harder. Still in your favor, but they will make you work for it.

Don't throw bananas at us when we're recovering. Also, when you're recovering, try not to go for the ledge. ZSS can "stall" on the ledge using down-b and never lose invulnerable frames. Diddy is very easy to edgeguard IMO.

andilex · Apr 16, 2010

sumbody f uc kin update this,
i fu ckin hate this matchup,
have u played shlikes zss idk wut to do,

she can space, diddy sucks in the air, cant go after her when off stage cuz she can spike or use a gay aerial, she has items plus nannas plus that freezing move, it cleary is in her favor u tilt stops all of diddys moves even glide toss all is diddy has a foward air, campin doesnt work against her, u basically lose a stock wen u get in the air, i cant beat this zss... well one of the 3 good zss,
and i can beat FK and snakee in friendlies but not shlike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-RgOiLzys0

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