Calling all NC TO's and players

Dorsey · Jul 15, 2009

He wasn't saying that their points were invalid.. Bill basically knows everyone in the NC smash scene i'm sure, and he was just saying that the opinions of people that he doesn't know and the people that don't go to tournaments too often, won't hold as much weight.. Which is understandable. This applies to me as well, I do not go to tournaments as often as I'd like.

OmniOstrich · Jul 15, 2009

ph00tbag said:
I think that it'd be nice to have more B+ tournaments, but in order to accommodate our community, we would need to hold onto the Melee and Brawl tournaments as well. The thing is, lately we've been having one tourney a week with two games (four events), and those have all gone until 12-2 in the morning. We have too many games, and not enough time. We could make certain events on another day, but these are all small tourneys, and don't warrant two-day affairs. So most tournaments, one game is going to have to be omitted. If we want to make sure that the community is properly served, we would need to have a lot of cooperation among our TOs to balance out what games are being played at what times. Some tourneys would have to be Melee and B+, some would have to be Brawl and B+, some would have to be Melee and Brawl. I think we can do it, but I'm just saying this ahead of time, so we have time to be ready for it.

I am willing to support the smash community in general and host whatever events are currently lacking. Foxy has and always will host Melee and Brawl+ and it sounds like Bill is now planning on hosting Brawl+ and Melee so i suppose PLUR and myself should just make sure to provide some vBrawl at our tournaments since that is what will be lacking.

One important crew that we all know and love is not a fun of brawl+ at all and I would hate to lose them bc we stop hosting brawl. Southern pines pretty much doesn't play brawl+...at all. They are not alone, I have heard people say 'I like brawl+ but it really doesn't warrant my complete focus since brawl gets the bigger turnout and has the most money involved.' Although that is subject to change locally OOS it will always be true.

Thunderbolt333 · Jul 15, 2009

Yes, but I respect people as people not as smashers.I would give for example M2K the same respect I would give a casual smasher as long as one is a nice person you have my repsect.Thats why everyone's point should hold the same wieght but this is a personal prefernence within itself and I won't force it down anyone's throat.Eitherway we should drop this subject before it becomes a all out flame war instead of what this thread was made to do and talk about B+ and vBrawl I apologize for bringing this up to begine with.

Dorsey · Jul 15, 2009

lol you don't have to worry about NC bros flaming you!

I was just saying the context that I thought bill intended those words to be in.

Foxy · Jul 15, 2009

Whoops, I'm a bit late here because I only check NC threads through subscriptions.

NC-Echo said:
Brawl+ is a phenomenal game already and there are improvements which are still on the way. As of right now Brawl+ is still in its infancy but there have already been many Brawl+ tournaments and from what research I have done, NC seems to be one of the most active Brawl+ states. Personally I think Brawl+ has the potential to replace Brawl and I believe NC has enough interest for it to be one of the first states to do so.

=D

Amazing hearing this from you... I remember bringing Brawl+ to PLUR's second tourney and you were really pissed off about everything in the game. I'm glad your opinion changed now that you've had more experience with it!

NC-Echo said:
I said a while ago that I was done hosting Billfests however I have decided that I, along with my roommate Lord Karn, will resume with Brawl+ as the new headlining event (of course we will
continue to support melee)

Excellent! Now I can enter all four events at Billfests... I'll definitely be looking forward to them. Also, B+ usually has shorter matches than Brawl (and less attendants for a while) so it should really help you with your time problems.

NC-Echo said:
I am calling out to all other NC TO's to do the same. If it doesn't work out, all we have lost is a month or two of what would have otherwise been Brawl tournaments and if it works we become one of the most respected Brawl+ states. I have a lot of ideas in mind to get this plan going the first one, which I will announce here, being the most important.

If I hadn't already been the headliner of this movement I would wholeheartedly agree to support the cause now. Still, I'll committ myself to continuing my Melee/Brawl+ tournaments, although I'm finished hosting them in my basement; when I start at NCSU I'll make venue arrangements and start up the Bromonthlies somewhere there. They should be even better, and get more attendance.

NC-Echo said:
I have a whole lot of ideas which I have yet to disclose and I will at a later time but I strongly believe this state and this game has a lot of potential. Please help me to support this great game and all the hard work which has been put into it.

Can't wait to hear the ideas.

Anyways, my personal thoughts:

Obviously I support your goals as I've been pushing for Brawl+ in NC since the days of its true infancy, back in January/February when I hosted my first tournament. Although I don't really spread Brawl+ with as much fervor anymore (since I've become skilled enough at Melee to really focus on it), I still would gladly support a state-wide change.

I think NC really does have the potential to be the first state with at least more Brawl+ representation than vBrawl, as we've had tournament exposure with the game for over half a year and more tournaments than any other state or region. We have a large number of players compared to other regions that really do prefer Brawl+ to vBrawl, and a lot of Brawl players who are getting into Melee and are predisposed to also like Brawl+.

I do think it would be excellent if PLUR and Omni both started running Melee/Brawl+, although we really can't expect Omni to do so and leave us with zero vBrawl events. However, with my tournaments, Billfests, possibly future HERB events, and PLUR tournies looking to hold Brawl+, I think NC is in an excellent position right now to begin catalyzing the shift.

For those who enjoy Brawl and feel uneasy about the shift, I would reassure them that Brawl+ still feels physically like Brawl rather than Melee, it still has a distinctly Brawl-esque engine. Playing Brawl and moving to Brawl+ is simply taking your existing characters and playstyle and being able to do combos that you never succeed at and have less limitations in the speed and abilities of your character than in vBrawl. You can play the same way, but now you just have some more things you can learn and apply to really create a skill gap and push your character to be truly skilled where it was impossible in vBrawl.

Anyways, long post, I'll finish by saying that B+ PR's are a good idea once the game really starts to break in, since the game has a larger skill gap and there definitely are some excellent players in NC for newcomers to look at and aspire to.

Dark Hart · Jul 15, 2009

Foxy said:
For those who enjoy Brawl and feel uneasy about the shift, I would reassure them that Brawl+ still feels physically like Brawl rather than Melee, it still has a distinctly Brawl-esque engine. Playing Brawl and moving to Brawl+ is simply taking your existing characters and playstyle and being able to do combos that you never succeed at and have less limitations in the speed and abilities of your character than in vBrawl. You can play the same way, but now you just have some more things you can learn and apply to really create a skill gap and push your character to be truly skilled where it was impossible in vBrawl.

Truth .

BEHR · Jul 15, 2009

I still dont like Brawl+

GofG · Jul 15, 2009

The only problem I see with Brawl+ as a competitive standard is that patches are game-changing, rebalancing, and neverending. The only successful competitive game that has game balance patches is Starcraft, and every patch still throws everything out of wack (which is why they are few and very far between). I remember specifically Blizzard waiting to release a patch that changed a couple of the stats of a couple of the units until after a month-long tournament in korea ended, so that the patch would not interrupt the tournament.

I doubt that Brawl+ will ever stabalise, and yeah, the brawl+ development crew is no blizzard.

Foxy · Jul 15, 2009

I agree that continuous changes and patches will throw off competitive standards, possibly change power rankings, and certainly cause a need for readjusting every so-often, but the way I see it, it just makes it into a competitive game that is more like playing World of Warcraft PvP - the best players are the most skilled and also the best at continuing to be skilled by learning all of the patch changes and updating their play.

Although I think that past a certain point in development (one they release a final version, which probably isn't more than a couple of months away), then there will only be minimal balancing tweaks from that point on and the game should feel really stable and have few game-changing patches.

Basically, we're playing a game that's in a very unstable beta phase. It'll be changing.

NC-Echo · Jul 15, 2009

Thunderbolt333 said:
If thier post are still valid to begin with this statement right here is invalid and making you sound like a elitest.Thats all I got from this statement.Tbh if a player has tryed brawl+ and vBrawl thier statement should be valid never the less.Its purely preference wether or not you like vBrawl or Brawl+.

Please do not misunderstand I was not disregarding your opinions or trying to be offensive at all but look at it from my perspective. I have been part of the community for years now and so I know pretty much everyone. So when someone who I have not met says they don't support brawl+ and would never come to a brawl+ when I have never seen them at a vbrawl tournament to begin with it goes without saying that I just wanted an explanation.

yummynbeefy · Jul 15, 2009

have you seen wolf in brawl+ 0-90 combos DAM!!

Flamingo · Jul 15, 2009

Foxy said:
when I start at NCSU I'll make venue arrangements and start up the Bromonthlies somewhere there. They should be even better, and get more attendance.

Get with me, either Bragaw lounge or the Wolves' Den would probably be the best.. And I'm doing some hardcore melee practice these days, I'm actually hoping to enter both events at HERB. so I'm down with Brawl+/Melee tournies at State, we could even cohost if you'd like.

PS: What hall are you rooming in?

Thunderbolt333 · Jul 15, 2009

NC-Echo said:
Please do not misunderstand I was not disregarding your opinions or trying to be offensive at all but look at it from my perspective. I have been part of the community for years now and so I know pretty much everyone. So when someone who I have not met says they don't support brawl+ and would never come to a brawl+ when I have never seen them at a vbrawl tournament to begin with it goes without saying that I just wanted an explanation.

For a explanation some people can't get B+ to begin with be it they don't have a SD card to they dont have a good computer or they just plain suck at hacking.The people that can get B+ would have a huge advantage because they know all the new mechanics to thier character ect and can train anytime they want.Lets take for example pokemon.People hate crit hits or when ice beam freezes thier pokemon or they flinch 5 times in a row then die they consider this a luck factor and it shouldn't be in the game because its random and it can cost entire games in extream cases but lets take the luck factor out shall we.Ok def and sp.def buff moves become over powerd wall teams run amuck and it would compleatly shutdown offensive teams.Sure it would still say pokemon but it would be a compleatly different game to say the least.All I'm saying is its impossable to "Balance" a game no matter how hard anyone trys.there will always be tiers no matter how many times you alter brawl.The only way to balance brawl is to take out all stages except for one and ban characters except for one.Don't worry bill this isn't a flame to you or anyone in that matter im just making my statement of why I don't support B+.Everyone has different opinions this is just construtive criticism.

Foxy · Jul 15, 2009

Flamingo said:
Get with me, either Bragaw lounge or the Wolves' Den would probably be the best.. And I'm doing some hardcore melee practice these days, I'm actually hoping to enter both events at HERB. so I'm down with Brawl+/Melee tournies at State, we could even cohost if you'd like.

PS: What hall are you rooming in?

I'm in Wood Hall, I've got a single dorm room. =D

Argyris · Jul 15, 2009

Thunderbolt333 said:
For a explanation some people can't get B+ to begine with be it they don't have a SD card to they dont have a good computer or they just plain suck at hacking.The people that can get B+ would have a huge advantage because they know all the new mechanics to thier character ect and can train anytime they want.Lets take for example pokemon.People hate crit hits or when ice beam freezes thier pokemon or they flinch 5 times in a row then die they consider this a luck factor and it shouldn't be in the game because its random and it can cost entire games in extream cases but lets take the luck factor out shall we.Ok def and sp.def buff moves become over powerd wall teams run amuck and it would compleatly shutdown offensive teams.Sure it would still say pokemon but it would be a compleatly different game to say the least.All I'm saying is its impossable to "Balance" a game no matter how hard anyone trys.there will always be tiers no matter how many times you alter brawl.The only way to balance brawl is to take out all stages except for one and ban characters except for one.Don't worry bill this isn't a flame to you or anyone in that matter im just making my statement of why I don't support B+.Everyone has different opinions this is just construtive criticism.

For those who have trouble hacking their own Wii, most people who go to Brawl+ tournaments are more than willing to help new people get in.

Comparing Smash and Pokemon? Seriously? That's like comparing chocolate milk and soda. They're two different things. Pokemon depends on but skill is still a major factor. That's how the game works. As for the removal of luck... The Pokemon metagame would not change much if random flinching, random status effects, and missing because they rarely become factors that affect the metagame. Wobbuffet is the best example of Defense and Special Defense being dominant. He's uber because of it. The other wall Pokemon are not treated the same way because they have flaws and can be defeated without relying on luck. Killing luck would kill Serene Grace Pokemon such as Togekiss and Jirachi. Those two rely on luck, but are not always successful. In addition, when either is outsped, they can't go into their bucket of luck tricks.

There will always be tiers. That's one thing you're right about. Issues arise in cases like Brawl because one character is leagues better than every other character in the game. In Brawl+, there will be tiers, and there will be a best and a worst. The Brawl+ crew won't be able to avoid that, but they will be able to prevent large character gaps and make the game more focused on skill instead.

RoyTheFlamboyant · Jul 15, 2009

I really don't matter to you guys because I haven't been going to tournies as of late, but my crew and I could literally never play Brawl+. Half of us don't have Wiis, and don't have good enough equip/internet to even start off with this. I know we're an active Brawl+ state, but I think that having ONLY Brawl+ tournies will serve nothing but to alienate some Smashers.

At least push for hosting three tournies instead of replacing Brawl. I like Brawl (even though I prefer Melee), and I know a lot of other people here like Brawl as is too.

I suppose, though, I'm only speaking for myself and my crewmates. I have no ill will towards your idea, I just prefer you start up a third tournament tier instead of throwing out Brawl.

If NC just throws out Brawl, there's another year of my life ****ing wasted on a game no one plays anymore. And I would be really sad. :C

Shady Penguin · Jul 16, 2009

I still love Brawl and will continue to play it for however long it sticks around in NC, but I am willing to participate in a shift over to Brawl+.

I really like both games, so I'll play and support whichever one ends up dominant in the tourney scene.

And yes, I main Snake in both games.

Criosphinx · Jul 16, 2009

RoyTheFlamboyant said:
I really don't matter to you guys because I haven't been going to tournies as of late, but my crew and I could literally never play Brawl+. Half of us don't have Wiis, and don't have good enough equip/internet to even start off with this. I know we're an active Brawl+ state, but I think that having ONLY Brawl+ tournies will serve nothing but to alienate some Smashers.

At least push for hosting three tournies instead of replacing Brawl. I like Brawl (even though I prefer Melee), and I know a lot of other people here like Brawl as is too.

I suppose, though, I'm only speaking for myself and my crewmates. I have no ill will towards your idea, I just prefer you start up a third tournament tier instead of throwing out Brawl.

If NC just throws out Brawl, there's another year of my life ****ing wasted on a game no one plays anymore. And I would be really sad. :C

I want to brawl Ness ditto you at HERB. K?

Flamingo · Jul 16, 2009

Shady Penguin said:
And yes, I main Snake in both games.

Gaaaaaay! ;p

Foxy said:
I'm in Wood Hall, I've got a single dorm room. =D

Wow that's quite a ways to some classes, but you'll get exercise XD or i guess you could just take the bus lol. And LUCKY!! Geez, why are they giving those away to Freshmen.. ;p

OmniOstrich · Jul 16, 2009

Flamingo said:
Wow that's quite a ways to some classes, but you'll get exercise XD or i guess you could just take the bus lol. And LUCKY!! Geez, why are they giving those away to Freshmen.. ;p

Because its wood hall lol.

We need to consider the fact that any new players coming into the scene will more than likely not have even heard of brawl+ at all and not hosting brawl tournaments would really discourage anyone in NC from starting up.

lord karn · Jul 16, 2009

If they are completely knew players and they see Brawl+ they will probably just think it is Brawl. We don't really have to tell them that it's not brawl until after they play it, and chances are they might even like it more.

IESCA · Jul 16, 2009

Hi people!

Brawl, Melee, and Brawl + tourney all on one day... did that one once, not again please. It would definately have to be organized amongst the tournament organizers who was doing what.

In my opinion, Brawl + is fun to play but what I hate is all the different costumes. They distract me though they are amusing to look at. I will probably always prefer Brawl. It's a sentimental thing more than an actual preference for either one.

Foxy · Jul 16, 2009

Well, obviously you can play Brawl+ without the costumes, and you can play regular Brawl with them as well.

So, they aren't really related.

As for new players, that's really the biggest problem - a lot of them come from Brawl nowadays and if we have very few tournaments for them I'm not sure how we can get them into the scene.

We'll need to figure something out. I also agree with Karn though, I've actually done that before and it worked.

mr.fizwidget · Jul 16, 2009

lets just tell the new players that melee is brawl

Foxy · Jul 16, 2009

It sounds like a joke but it's really not. :<

I have heard literally COUNTLESS (read: 50 to 100 probably) people ask if I'm playing Brawl or assume it's Brawl when I'm playing Melee, and they tend to do it ESPECIALLY when Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, or Mewtwo is playing on the screen and we're on a stage that doesn't exist in Brawl or looks different, like Battlefield and FD.

No joke, it would work.

YoshiKongBarkley3000 · Jul 17, 2009

what's brawl + is this supposed to be a modified brawl or something??? Is mewtwo seriously in this brawl?

Foxy · Jul 17, 2009

yeah mewtwo and all the removed characters

geno too

*P*L*U*R* · Jul 17, 2009

tell me that Lip is confirmed and i'm in

Foxy · Jul 17, 2009

working on her and she'll totally be out in two weeks

i promise

stingers · Jul 18, 2009

i dont know if this is a good idea or not

i like brawl+ more but there are...ramifications of a state-wide decision to switch focus from one game to another...

Ragnar0k · Jul 18, 2009

Stongers said ramifications, listen to him.

kackamee · Jul 18, 2009

Ragnar0k said:
Stongers said ramifications, listen to him.

^^^^^This.

Keep it as a side tourney until it's more developed, then rediscuss, about making it bigger in NC. (I hope you guys still keep brawl though....it's a great game :o)

KillerSOS · Jul 18, 2009

I think I will try to get with Flamingo and Foxy and host in Bragaw louge since thats the dorm I'm living in... its a pretty good size as well.

EDIT: Lol Avatar was inappropriate????

kackamee · Jul 18, 2009

You must've had that Amy person in your Avi. Look in "the gentleman's club" Atl South social board and theres a whole thread about how she got creeped out and stuff.

KillerSOS · Jul 18, 2009

Ah.

Fixed it.

Foxy · Jul 18, 2009

kackamee said:
^^^^^This.

Keep it as a side tourney until it's more developed, then rediscuss, about making it bigger in NC. (I hope you guys still keep brawl though....it's a great game :o)

Er, it's already way past side-tournies.

Foxy · Jul 18, 2009

kackamee said:
^^^^^This.

Keep it as a side tourney until it's more developed, then rediscuss, about making it bigger in NC. (I hope you guys still keep brawl though....it's a great game :o)

Er, it's already way past side-tournies.

NC-Echo · Jul 18, 2009

kackamee said:
^^^^^This.

Keep it as a side tourney until it's more developed, then rediscuss, about making it bigger in NC. (I hope you guys still keep brawl though....it's a great game :o)

Er, it's already way past side-tournies.

Smith · Jul 18, 2009

.....

o.o oh my...

TheLastCacely · Jul 19, 2009

nice ill be on da pr's cause of my boi weeeegeeee

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