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Lucario vs. Luigi (18) Export

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
Luigi


Matchup:

55:45

General info:
I agree. Many of his aerials are pertty good, space well against uair, almost always expect two aerials per jump (usually nair as the second), and punish his recovery, his options are good in distance but really punishable.
his utilt is great for setups, and remember, he has crap-for-oos options since almost every attack pushes him away from you when he shields it, plus even if he PS's, his options are still meh.
His jab options are really good, I'd say all of them are somewhat viable at high level of play, but learning to play against them is key to avoiding.
Also, obviously his dthrow is good, but it will be hard to land the grab in the first place because of his lol shield sliding making shield grabbing a really hard option.
I'd have to look at stage options in this mu, but I'd say either 60:40 or 55:45. A still really tough and really good matchup, but lucario's definitely got this.
His aerials come out faster than ours, I think he's also better at killing than we are. We have range, and a good air game which keeps this close.

I think its 55-45 Lucario.
Luigi Matchup.

Yet a character who is still misunderstood on weather or not where he stands. Luigi is a hard character to actually fight face to face. In the air, Luigi has a flat advantage. His Bair will out-range any attack you can throw at him from the air and trying to trade with him doesn't help either since his attacks do more damage then Lucario's. Luigi cannot approach you from underneath, because of Lucario's Bair, So he will try to swipe you from the side. On the floor, you have a slight advantage for your tilts and other sources of attacks out range his, but be weary on following up your attacks because he can break out of potential combos quite easily.

Luigi actually has no followup's and pure combos on Lucario. Lucario's ability to slide out of attacks makes it hard for Luigi to also follow up anything that might be a combo on normal characters. The best bet he would be able to do is to Dthrow you at low %'s and then try to bait you into getting hit by another. Jumping out of most of his common follow ups will solve this problem, but keep in mind that you will have to switch it up to keep your opponent guessing on what you might do. Luigi also has the potential to kill Lucario at retardedly early percents' Lucario can Die to an angle'd Fsmash around 120 with proper DI. He die's earlier if you have improper Di (Obviously) Luigi's UpB can kill Lucario if he hits you around the 50% mark. Dsmash will kill late because of how you can input DI into that move, and Up smash around 135-145%.

In the projectile section, Luigi's is awful. AS beats Fireball out, and even without AS fireball isn't a scary thing. Luigi will most likely use them just for anti-air approaches.

Luigi's UpB

I want to clarify something right now about this. Jab > UpB is not a combo on every character, that is only a rumor. Allow me to explain:

Luigi's first jab has 3 different hit boxes, each sending a character at a set distance and at a set angle, despite of damage. At the end of Luigi's first jab, it will send you at a 30ish degree angle. IN the middle of the jab it will send you at a 60ish degree angle. At the very close range Jab, it will send you at a 90 degree angle. The 90 degree angle is what makes character fall into a potential UpB combo. Since it is a set distance, DI is not a variable after the first jab, so saying "You can DI it to avoid it" is a myth. The issue when this information was found, was that character falling speed was somehow left out. Now that is what makes Jab>UpB doesn't combo. Some characters fall too fast and can shield the the UpB. Other characters fall too slow, and because of that it gives enough time to DI away or into Luigi to make it miss. Lucario is one of the characters that fall too slow, so don't get caught by it >_>.

Gimping section:

Luigi has a good gimping game, not to mention a really good recovery. He can follow you out to death lines and come back without dying. Just a heads up.

Edit: I have actually calmed down since the little incident that happened about a week ago. I will show up and post around again.

No one is a leader btw. I never took the leading roll for revamping the boards. All I did was just suggest it, and people wanted to do it also. I don't see how one person can lead something that is suppose to be a community effort to run.

So to capitalize on DJ's post, it is very important to create and find your own way of playing, but it is also important to know universal punish options that can be used in what situation.







What to avoid:
Oh yeah, don't let him get a grab on you at low percents, he'll dthrow -> all sorts of painful aerials.
IMO you're underestimating his jab on lucario a bit - it's one of luigi's best weapons on the ground. If you get in up close it could hurt a lot... Luigi has a frame guaranteed dsmash, dtilt, or ftilt out of first jab on lucario, and if he hits with the more ranged hitboxes, he has a guaranteed up B or grab.




How to win:
i'm just so fxking hungry and drunk i can barely post but okies xD.

Don't worry I still highly remember from the last discussion though l found it pretty cool you guys were on point and detailed on it. As for Luigi, it's pretty straightforward match, Lucario (like every other opponent) has to space/camp like a mother****er, while Luigi works his mother****ing *** off, to get inside and do his thang and stuff.. Luigi and Lucario go pretty head to head in the air, but like Luigi is his where he excels at, but IMO don't go head to head in the air. You'll either eat or trade off aerials.

My advice for a Lucario is to keep it grounded game. Lucario has excellent movement obviously because of that gayastic you call "roll". Lucario's other tools should consistent spacing Fsmash like a beast, but l'd advise that for saving kills and ****. Um yeah so lazy to keep going.

Edit: ****, the more type, the more my stomach growls for food omg, ANYWAYS, l haven't found Lucario's AS threatening at all except for gimping and like you know stage control what not and ****. Probably because I've ps'd so idk. And theres no real lucarios in NY.

my input would be lucario in flat stages for him to camp and space tha mother****ing **** out of luigi. And use his silly roll and stuff. Luigi excels in platforms, for combo game and avoid some camping at times. Pretty straightforward, oh and avoid low ceiling since most luigis atks are vertical yknow.




Helpful tips:
How about the megasphere? :p



I thought that full charge AS rips right through Luigi's fireballs before 70% though >_>

also,
Luigis airspeed is horrible. his attacks may be fast, but he moves slow. The combination of range AND speed is what makes aerials deadly, like marths fair and MK uair. Lucarios bair/uair/dair can do a decent job of beating luigis aerials, even if they are slower.

Try to 'brickwall' and camp in this matchup. Also shielding is very good... if you see his nair coming dont just sit there and take it, along with the combo that follows. You have a good roll dodge, dont be afraid to use it often to avoid this approach.

From Lucarios point of view, understand Luigis options when it comes to recovering and getting up from the ledge, he has quite a deal of trouble. after 100% his get-up attack is really bad and leaves him with very few options that can avoid an fsmash or full charge aura sphere. Pressure him as much as you can offstage with aura spheres and bair which will beat anything he throws out.






Stages:
@ HK Donut of the Blue Fire
its cant

It doesn't matter. Luigi doesn't have any bad stages. I would chose a stage where its easy to punish an misfire or its easy to get a gimp or edge hog. I would chose the usually stages ,Yoshi island and frigate opheon. Depending on where you live you might want to choose pictochat. The high boundaries might save you from an early kill. As for banning you might want to know how the luigi plays because he has no super bad stage. Maybe Battlefield since it helps is ground to air combos. But that's risky depending on how you play lucario.
Luigi does too have super bad stages T.T

Try FD




Disclaimer: This thread is made for the sole purpose of keeping matchup discussing clean and organized. If people wish to discuss a past matchup, they may do so in this thread without cluttering the current discussion.
 

Rayku

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Messages
1,832
Location
Minot, ND
Haha. You don't play with BigLou on a daily basis. Luigi is a constant threat in my region :p

I'm getting better at it, though, and it's proving to be more on the "very hard to win" side for Luigi the more I learn it. BigLou is **** good, though.
 

MasterKoga

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
45
Location
4
IMO you're underestimating his jab on lucario a bit - it's one of luigi's best weapons on the ground. If you get in up close it could hurt a lot... Luigi has a frame guaranteed dsmash, dtilt, or ftilt out of first jab on lucario, and if he hits with the more ranged hitboxes, he has a guaranteed up B or grab.
 
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