Rob Official Matchup Discussion: Ganondorf

Ok, so we are ALLLLMOST DONE. After this, just TWO more weeks, and we'll have all the MU's done (assuming we use PKM trainer as 1, and do the ROB ditto matchup)

So, lets get on it broskis. This week is Ganondorf & Bowser. This particular thread is about Ganondorf.


ROB's Advantages:

ROB's Disadvantages:

Opponent's Advantages:

Opponent's Disadvantages:

What ROB should try to do:

How opponent can stop it:

What Opponent should be trying to do:

How ROB can stop it:

Counterpicks (what ROB should pick/ What opponent will pick {If you're someone contributing from another board})
Bans (what ROB should ban 1 via stage strike, 1 via personal ban)
Preferred Neutral (what ROB wants/ What opponent wants {If you're someone contributing from another board})

Ratio:

Plus, any anecdotes/explanations you wanna give.

ROB's Advantages:

Camping
Gimp/EK

ROB's Disadvantages:

Ganon's Auto Cancelled Dair
Ganon's Side B

Opponent's Advantages:

Combos, like Dair>Uair; Side B>Uair(Platfform) making good %s
Good EG

Opponent's Disadvantages:

Bad Recovery
ROB's Dsmash

What ROB should try to do:

Camp
Spotdodge>Dsmash to punish lag moves
Gimp with SHDF/SH Fair>Uair, then EG correctly

How opponent can stop it:

Don't lag AT ALL
Suicide if he is in % advantage

What Opponent should be trying to do:

Spam Side B/Dair correctly to set up combos

How ROB can stop it:

Camp so as to avoid Ganon to approach
Spotdodge > Dsmash to punish Side B/Dair when missed

Counterpick:

ROB --> Frigate(u know), Delfino(early kills =D)
Ganon --> Battlefield(Plattforms helps Ganon to combo with Side B), Halberd(same of Battlefield + Early kills with Dair)

Ban:

Stage Strike --> Halberd
Personal Ban --> Batlefield(?)

Preferred Neutral:

ROB --> FD
Ganon --> Battlefield, Smashville(?)

Ratio:

ROB 60:40 Ganon
ROB punishes options are great, gimp can **** Ganon and camp is nice, too =D
Ganon HAS to play close and Spam Side B and Dair, but they can be punished...


Well, i will contact the Ganon Boards to help us!
=DDDD

lulz 60:40 in your dreams

70:30 at least.

stRIP said:

lulz 60:40 in your dreams

70:30 at least.

Click to expand...

it could be 60:40 in Battlefield, for example
but i dont agree with 70:30, it could be, but i dont pproave at all
probably 65:35

stRIP said:

lulz 60:40 in your dreams

70:30 at least.

Click to expand...

This.

10char

stRIP said:

lulz 60:40 in your dreams

70:30 at least.

Click to expand...

wtf strip, so wrong

ROB's advantages:
-Camping, lasers/down-b are tough, but not unpassable.
-Fair gimps

ROB's disadvantages:
-Easy dair target
-Blind spot from below

If you wanna cp Delfino against Ganondorf, I won't stop you.. I wouldn't advise it though.

Unlike most campers, ROB has some intervals in which we can approach, he's a fairly big target and can be dair'd to combo easily. A Ganondorf won't spam side-b, he'll punish with it or bait into it. Since baiting = no-no in a match-up discussion, assume that it'll only be used as a punishing move.

Onstage, ROB needs to spam laser and camp a lot. Off-stage, fair gimps. If Ganondorf gets close, get *****. Battlefield and Halberd are good stages against ROB. I wouldn't recommend a CP on Frigate, try a more controversial stage like Jungle Japes or Rainbow Cruise.

Killing Ganondorf onstage will be tough. Ganondorf has a little bit more range with dtilt (ROB's ftilt is also amazing though) and your only reliable kill move is usmash and nair which have relatively low range. Downsmash isn't much of a killer, but it can rack damage on us pretty well.

I'd go with 60:40 ROB advantage as well, since he can still camp (gay as hell)

Flying Dutchman said:

Unlike most campers, ROB has some intervals in which we can approach, he's a fairly big target and can be dair'd to combo easily. A Ganondorf won't spam side-b, he'll punish with it or bait into it. Since baiting = no-no in a match-up discussion, assume that it'll only be used as a punishing move.

Click to expand...

Not entirely true. ROB does have intervals between his projectiles, but he could still easily outmind Ganon into hits from more projectiles.

Onstage, ROB needs to spam laser and camp a lot. Off-stage, fair gimps. If Ganondorf gets close, get *****. Battlefield and Halberd are good stages against ROB. I wouldn't recommend a CP on Frigate, try a more controversial stage like Jungle Japes or Rainbow Cruise.

Click to expand...

He doesn't necessarily need to spam lasers.

Killing Ganondorf onstage will be tough. Ganondorf has a little bit more range with dtilt (ROB's ftilt is also amazing though) and your only reliable kill move is usmash and nair which have relatively low range. Downsmash isn't much of a killer, but it can rack damage on us pretty well.

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ROB outranges Ganon, and by a longshot. "Ganon has a little bit more range", what are you talking about? DTilt? Yes, if you put it that way then Ganondorf outranges 3/4th of the characters in the game. ROB has FTilt, which has good range and is FAST, his DTilt is good too. ROB has trouble killing? So does Ganon, and much more of it.

I'd go with 60:40 ROB advantage as well, since he can still camp (gay as hell)

Click to expand...

This match-ups 75:25. No more, no less.

65/35 ROB.

Basically it's possible to get past ROB's projectiles pretty easily. Getting past everything else however is much more difficult. However he suffers massively once you land a hit since he's easily juggled.

@ the Ganon boards: This matchup isn't as bad as Pit since it's easier to react to his projectile game. It's worse than vs Lucas since ROB has some really gay spacing tools that are really safe when used intelligently. ROB also is better at edgeguarding and has one of the best grabs in the game (have fun getting shieldgrabbed half the time).

ROB's Advantages:
-Ability to camp
-Ability to edgeguard/gimp
- Outranges/comparable range to Ganon (Murder Choke aside)
- Faster moves in general, enabling ROB to take advantage of opportunities quicker


ROB's Disadvantages:
- Weakness underneath
- Ability to be tech-chased easier due to his horrendous tech-roll
- Lack of KO power aside from gimps
- Large target
- Bad tech-roll

Opponent's Advantages:
- Has kill moves in spades
- Superb tech-chasing game
- Pretty solid underneath game
- Harder to outright KO
- Suicide move to help thwart high %age, aggressive edgeguarding

Opponent's Disadvantages:
- Slightly easy to gimp
- Slow
- Big target
- Lack of projectiles
- Outranged in the air


What ROB should try to do:
- Combo at low-mid percents and look for a gimp afterward
- Camp
- Space with tilts
- Punish whiffed Jabs, flubbed D-air autocancels, F-tilts with D-smash
- Edgeguard somewhat aggresively
- Don't sit in shield by any means


How opponent can stop it:
- Using the projectile recharge intervals to approach
- Mix up the murder choke and repeated D-airs
- Get ahold of ROB's gyro and keep it for as long as possible
- Powershield projectiles


What Opponent should be trying to do:
- Look for Murder Choke tech-chases, as they set up tons of stuff (d-airs, f-tilts, jabs, d-tilts, U-airs, etc)
- Attempt to get underneath ROB
- Look for a suicide if the time is right (%age, positioning, etc)
- Not getting gimped

How ROB can stop it:
- By continually running away from Ganon and camping to no end
- By staying mobile, outside of the reach of murder-choke
- By fighting Ganon in the air on a parallel plane
- Gimping


Counterpicks:
> ROB:
--->Frigate, RC, Japes
>Ganon: BF, Delphino, Halberd

Bans:
>ROB:
--->Delphino
>Ganon
---> Frigate

Stage Strikes:
>ROB:
---> BF, Lylat
>Ganon:
--->FD, possibly SV

Preferred Neutral:
>ROB
--->FD
>Ganon
--->BF

Ratio:
>60-40, ROB
--->If you are Koskinator

65-35, ROB
---> If you aren't Koskinator

Essentially, the key to this is to combo Ganon early on when he can't do much about it, and camp until mid percents. Get him off the stage and look for a gimp. If you miss your gimp opportunities (which are easier, imo, at the 60-90% range) then you'll have less opportunities, and Ganon can live quite awhile. Not to mention, you run the risk of getting Ganon-cided.

If the Ganondorf can tech-chase well, be prepared to eat a boat-load of damage if you are predictable. Even well on a stage with platforms like BF, Yoshi's, Lylat, or Pokemon 1. It can rack up lots of percent and can lead into a kill move.

When engaging Ganon in the air, attempt to do so horizontally. Doing it from above will get you U-aired, and from below can get you D-aired or Down+B'd if Ganon has enough room. At low percents its fine, but after that... horizontal.

Watch out for suicide attempts, stay mobile and out of Murder Choke range, and look for gimps.

Oh we forgot the chainchoke. A matchup is based on the argument that BOTH opponents possess the full metagame and play at the highest level of skill.

So a Ganon should easily get 4-5 chokes with sideB, because ROB is really fairly easy to chainchoke

still 70:30 from my side

(sry for the crappy english)

Rob Vs Ganon
70 : 30

i totally agree with Dull Razer

stRIP said:

lulz 60:40 in your dreams

70:30 at least.

Click to expand...

60:40 definatly cuz of that **** dair

I agree with the 75:25... I mean c'mon, he outranges us, outcamps us, outprioritizes us (At least with aerials, easily) and can gimp us (extremely) easily. Not to mention, that Gyro ruins our approach, especially on BF... 60:40, absolutely not, this should be one of Rob's easiest matchups. Oh and as Dull Razor said, Rob, a big target? Take a look at Ganon, he's nearly twice the size of Rob.