Out of order, new matchup thread coming soon!

Don't get me wrong. What you guys say is invaluable. I just wouldn't leave you two to write it yourselves and only use your MU exp. I'm saying there should be variety.

Its more like JJ vs. me, ADHD, GDX, Deez, Esoj, LeThien, and Nanerz. And me vs. JJ, Ebo, and Wifi with Wolf's in the chat...We've played the matchup a lot so we know how to counter each character, which is what the writeup should contain, what beats what, what to look out for, what to avoid...Although there have been some new innovations since I last played JJ.

Edit: If you guys have any specific problems/concerns with this matchup, hopefully we'll be able to answer them.

You're going to be using Fair alot more against Diddy. I find it the most effective move as far as picking up bananas goes.

My strategy is to use bananas against him (obviously) or try to stay as close to him as possible when he has none out. I think close combat is effective against Diddy since he won't get a chance to get more out..

55-45 Wolf imo.

You and JJ should go back and forth on the little things, and if any other Diddy's would like to add anything, we'll let them do that. Either way, Turtl and JJ are what we got for now. So get at it.

Wolf only needs to do AT MOST around 450 damage to diddy (can be less due to gimps)

Wolf can do crazy stuff with bananas (I still don't get why so few wolfs use these) such as JC item toss -> boost smash/fsmash, DACIT -> anything, and other things. These rack up the 450% damage that u need to win pretty quickly.

If wolf gets a stock lead, he can jumpshine camp diddy kong. This is really good at avoiding kill moves while slowly damaging diddy kong at the same time. Right now, I don't think there are many things diddy can do about it, but I may be wrong about this.

castorpollux said:

If wolf gets a stock lead, he can jumpshine camp diddy kong. This is really good at avoiding kill moves while slowly damaging diddy kong at the same time. Right now, I don't think there are many things diddy can do about it, but I may be wrong about this.

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This is the only reason Diddy loses this matchup...Its extremely gay, works amazing on FD and is the reason why GDX called JJ the campiest Wolf ever. Basically it goes like this, blaster, blaster, blaster until they approach...FH Shine (blocks SH Fair and banana throws), double jump out of it over Diddy, Bair if necessary, go to other side of FD and repeat. Wolf's aerial movement will make him able to space the Bair and beat out Diddy's Uair if the Diddy tries to attack you in the air. And Diddy's airspeed is too slow for any real pressure. Just make sure to stop blastering once they get in range, although you'll be on the edge so if you do get hit, you'll fall onto the edge being safe from followups.

In general, Diddy benefits in the exchanging blaster and banana damage since you'll be tripped and Diddy will have improvement in tempo. Diddy is screwed in this matchup without bananas since most of Wolf's moves have more priority over Diddy's moves...Fair picks them up rather easily...Shield them and then do a retreating Fair and Diddy won't be able to get it before you...Once you get a banana, don't immediately throw it back, he will just shield it and Z-catch it off his shield if your too far away...You should either DACIT into a Dsmash or Grab if he shields the banana. Another approach is to jump over him and throw the banana down onto Diddy's shield Bair his shield and then Fsmash...Even if Diddy shields all of the attacks, the banana will be next to him on the ground and the Fsmash/Bair will push him onto banana allowing you free damage, although if the Diddy predicts this they can try to catch the initial banana with an Uair, punishing Wolf, or run/roll away at some point..

If Diddy techs the Dthrow either in place or behind you, if you buffer a Dsmash, its a guaranteed hit. If Diddy approaches with a banana, you can run up to him and shield grab, if he throws the banana, you can just grab him...Instant tossing is harder to do with Wolf than Diddy but still managable. Wolf gets most of his kills vertically so stages like FD, Halberd, or Brinstar would be good counterpicks...Possible bans could be Smashville, Battlefield, or Castle Seige.

What does wolf avoid diddy hump, especially if Diddy has a banana in his hand?

Asaph said:

Do we want to ask some Diddy's to come in here?

I don't know about the match up as much as you guys do, but I want to say it's 60:40 Wolf.

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Someone else ask, I usually get ignored.

it seems like from what you guys have said its a even 50:50 since it all depends on who's better at exploiting banana's diddy is freakishly good at racking up the damage with those things but wolf can do just as well using all the little tricks he has, both can be gimped fairly easily once off stage but imo wolf has the advantage there cause of the shine, just look out for diddy's ability to death hump you, isnt wolfs trip animation extra long or something like that? it'd make it easier for diddy to get a kill move in.
just because wolf is heavier and kills better i'd make it 55:45 wolf or just even

Let me mention a few things about shine…If you shine and Diddy is in a neutral position, you can get punished even if Diddy throws the banana at you…If he is far enough away, he can throw the banana at you use a dash attack to catch the banana and combo with dash attack, glide toss up, and finish with Utilt/Uair. If Diddy is close to you he can glide toss down and Fsmash/Dsmash you before you are able to get out of the Shine's lag.

That being said, Shine is an excellent move for breaking up combos…Without it Diddy can combo Wolf like no other at low percents…Even using it to get out of Usmash's 3rd hit is useful, since the 3rd hit never combos. Jump shine is effective at interrupting aerial moves, Diddy cannot SH Fair you since you will be invincible at that height and if you double jump out of it, you will be in position to space Bair since you have better horizontal aerial movement…I know you know about shine gimps, but make sure you time it right, if you miss, chances are you're going to be edge hogged.

K I edited it with diddy stuff. I guess we could begin discussing dedede. Should it be done in a separate thread or in this one?

Keep it in this thread.....

DDD vs Wolf

Ok well we all know what DeDeDe can do when he grabs Wolf, but the hard thing is getting the grab off. JC Fair and spaced bairs work well in not getting grabbed. If somehow hes approaching you to grab shine or jab him away. Camp heavily with your lazers and abuse him when he tries to approach. Pick stages with platforms so you can stay on there to make sure he cannot grab you.

Recommended CP's:
Battlefield
Brinstar
Norfair(if legal)
Delfino Plaza

Recommended Bans:
Final Destination
Castle Siege
Rainbow Cruise
Halberd
PS 1

Match up Ratio: 7:3 or 65:35

Best tactic vs D3 = running the clock imo although JJ will grill me for saying it >_<

You might want to look in the Ask a Question thread for some insight...I don't think Delfino Plaza should be on the counter pick list...Purely theory craft, but its generally known as a DDD stage with all the walk offs and temp walls. Is there a special advantage Wolf has there?

Btw, your not going to want to shine on the ground because of the lag and is easily grabbed...All shines should be jump shines. Utilt can be hard to land on Wolf, but watch out for it at low percents as well, since Utilt to Grab might as well combo at low percents and it'll be fresh by the time you're at Utilt percent. Running the clock may just be the inevitable way to play the match up. Both players are going to play very safe anyway that most matches will be over six minutes...

Blaster planking is super effective, none of DDD's attacks are reliable against it...I think Gordos might go through the laser so that's the only way for him to get past it.

Alright, I've only ever played a couple DDD's, but he's another main of mine. I'm teaching a friend how to use him, and after playing that friend with Wolf, I've come up with at least some information about the MU.

Spam the blaster. I keep hearing that DDD has a better camping game. I don't know why. While his projectiles walk around and can eat your blaster, your blaster is faster. Try and jump to shoot over his projectiles, time them so you shoot after he throws. Your projectile goes farther.

Also, kill his projectiles. When you have the chance, **** them off the stage, especially if it's that lightning-puking *******.

DDD's aerial game is gay. His fair comes out pretty quick, as well as his dair. What you need to know and do is punish him for it. What did I say? I said punish him for it. Fair covers the top of the DDD and the front of him. If he uses it, uair him. If he does dair, bair/fair his side. If he does bair, run the **** away.

Knowing how to play DDD from my experiences is knowing when to attack. Be fast. Be unpredictable.

Don't do SHFF bairs. Use the aerial movement of a SH bair to DI away. I also find that doing the wall of pain, bair x3 works more effective than the DJ FF Bair x2.

Go offstage against a good DDD and I will laugh. This is not recommended at all, even if you're me.

When you're camping DDD with blaster, be very careful. I've bastered like a maniac and taken a full-fledged Gordo to the face. So be patient and utterly perfect with this.

Do not screw with DDD. He will grab you. His dodge is Godly. Do not underestimate it.

AC retreating fair has worked wonders for me.

Know the offstage game well as far as what DDD will do. Do not fall into his bair and get chained. If DDD is going to come directly at you and bair, fall lower and then use your DJ and recovery. Flash has no priority vs that bair.

For some reason a FF uair works well for me, but common sense says it shouldn't. I dunno, test it out in friendlies and see what it does for you.

You know the shining policy. Camp with the jumpshine as much as possible, but don't fall back down and bair DDD's shield when he's practically in "sniffing-your-face" distance, that's ridiculously stupid.

I don't know what else I can say. Do not get grabbed under any circumstances; know how to get back on stage if you do get grabbed.


JJ and Seagull better comment, or I'll teabag them both. The above barely passes as experience.

Asaph said:

You know the shining policy. Camp with the jumpshine as much as possible, but don't fall back down and bair DDD's shield when he's practically in "sniffing-your-face" distance, that's ridiculously stupid.

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Just a quick note: DDD can SH Fair Jump Shine...The positioning takes a little getting used to though.

rvkevin said:

Just a quick note: DDD can SH Fair Jump Shine...The positioning takes a little getting used to though.

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A FH jumpshine? And even then, can't we just shine on our way coming down?

Positioning for the DDD or for the Wolf?

Gheb_01 said:

Best tactic vs D3 = running the clock imo although JJ will grill me for saying it >_<

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Actually this is exactly what JJ does. LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke88C2YZjx4
zedd vs JJwolf

i feel its not a good strategy to PLAN on running the time from the very beginning... but if you see an opportunity to do so, go for it

Seagull Man said:

Actually this is exactly what JJ does. LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke88C2YZjx4
zedd vs JJwolf

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lol, that dedede is an idiot. i can almost trace the wheels turning in his head--shieldgrab, uh wait no that didn't work, waddle camp, **** BACK TO SHIELDGRABBING

anyway

the key to the matchup, like most with DDD, is spacing. DDD's like to shieldgrab and will often do it regardless of how close or how far you are. this will ONLY WORK A FEW TIMES, so be unpredictable when trying to punish the lag from the grab. a well-spaced bair can bait the grab, then an fsmash can punish it while he's still fumbling around.

don't rely on this, though. if the DDD is any good, he'll stop shieldgrabbing the bair, which'll make you look like a moron if he just shields the fsmash too.

other than that, not much to say. i don't think a lot in this matchup--i just do. from what i've heard and seen, a lot of DDD's won't adapt and will try to just grab grab grab. if they begin to adapt, so should you. aggressive DDD's can be scary too...

coney said:

lol, that dedede is an idiot. i can almost trace the wheels turning in his head--shieldgrab, uh wait no that didn't work, waddle camp, **** BACK TO SHIELDGRABBING

anyway

the key to the matchup, like most with DDD, is spacing. DDD's like to shieldgrab and will often do it regardless of how close or how far you are. this will ONLY WORK A FEW TIMES, so be unpredictable when trying to punish the lag from the grab. a well-spaced bair can bait the grab, then an fsmash can punish it while he's still fumbling around.

don't rely on this, though. if the DDD is any good, he'll stop shieldgrabbing the bair, which'll make you look like a moron if he just shields the fsmash too.

other than that, not much to say. i don't think a lot in this matchup--i just do. from what i've heard and seen, a lot of DDD's won't adapt and will try to just grab grab grab. if they begin to adapt, so should you. aggressive DDD's can be scary too...

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^^^^^^
Best d3 that in md/va. I never want to verse Coney because he knows not to grab me when I space bairs and fairs. He just waits till I screw up. I try to be unpredictable.

If I space a bair on shield and the d3 tries to grab and fails then of course I'll fsmash or ftilt (if im in range). Though in all honesty I do better on d3s then mks.

I expect more d3s to pop in saying something like "Wolf is like our cuddily little fellah that when we grab you once a stock there goes your advantage".

The major thing with D3 is he is such a big, lovely target. He practically begs for FH/SH bairs to the face (just make sure you can maneuver away if it fails). Even if he does start spamming, FH, SH, and regular lazers make his life heck. His camping game is somewhat like Oli's, so don't be too intimidated. D3 doesn't have the camping game to take down a half-decent Wolf.

If you decide to play aggressively with bairs and fairs, just remember to mix it up with Shines. If you decide to Shine, make sure that you will fall slightly behind where D3 is facing to bait the grab. Even if he manages to shield, he'll go for the shieldgrab and whiff, leaving him open for a variety of land-based attacks normally not open to you.
Make sure you are very jumpy while playing. Playing land-based against D3 up-close will get you grabbed. Bait grabs from him and punish.

If he does grab you, use mikeHAZE's AT. I was surprised at how well it worked in my matches.

The reason I like Delfino Plaza in this matchup is that Wolf autograbs the ledge, which is very nice against a character that could easily stagespike/gimp Wolf otherwise. Halberd also works in this manner, only the stage has such outrageously large blast zones that its quite detrimental to Wolf to take D3 there.

Wolf Flash can be used to mindgame a camping D3 if they are trying to jump over your projectiles. Obviously, use it extremely sparingly.

@Anonano

The major thing with D3 is he is such a big, lovely target. He practically begs for FH/SH bairs to the face (just make sure you can maneuver away if it fails).

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I would think the opposite, unless he's vulnerable. DDD has an enormous grab range, calling for perfect bairs, which, if I'm correct, are not exactly easy to do without having practiced.

Even if he does start spamming, FH, SH, and regular lazers make his life heck. His camping game is somewhat like Oli's, so don't be too intimidated. D3 doesn't have the camping game to take down a half-decent Wolf.

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All it takes are about two waddles from DDD, and then he can PS walk through your SH lasers, using the waddles to stop grounded lasers.

Although most people are incapable of using winning strategies such as PS walking and choose to stay grounded and take the battle. I still don't get that.

If he does grab you, use mikeHAZE's AT. I was surprised at how well it worked in my matches.

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Actually, I've found that looking directly at the opponent and asking "You like ****, don't ya?" causes them to open a window for a shine in the CG. Otherwise you're completely ignored and feel kinda stupid. I have a large success rate though...with only one dude. >.> Point still stands though.

Wolf Flash can be used to mindgame a camping D3 if they are trying to jump over your projectiles. Obviously, use it extremely sparingly.

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That particular situation seems unlikely, but I can see it being pulled off. I would only ever do it after I've baired a DDD already. Bair > flash is kinda sexy.

But I honestly would NEVER do this in a match. After watching the **** that occured in JJ's match against Zedd from one grab, I think it's safe to say that there are no 'risk-taking' moves you should throw out there.

I can't really give my opinion of this matchup since most of the Dedede's I've played couldn't do the deathgrab, just the normal chain grab.

But either way I still try to camp and play as gay as possible cuz the chaingrab is still pretty dang awesome.

IMO its like 70-30 in dedede's favor.

F-air can be pretty nice in this matchup since its good to retreat and avoid getting close to his arms of doom.

Just a question, if a grab didn't immediately mean one stock is lost (if the infinite is on), what would that MU be? Let's say that DDD couldn't instantly kill using the dtilt either. What would everyone's opinion be?

Asaph said:

A FH jumpshine? And even then, can't we just shine on our way coming down?

Positioning for the DDD or for the Wolf?

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It may have been a FH Fair, but regardless it is punishable if the DDD predicts it...Because the jump shine can be done diagonally, DDD needs to be farther away than you'd expect so he'll probably get hit by it quite a few times before he adjusts.

Hoo boy. This is going to be one heck of a post. With crappy formatting too

First off, I think the matchup is probably about 60:40 at the top level of play, +/- 5% (this is probably BS since I'm so far from that area, but bear with me here). Something that we have on our favor for the time being is that most D3 players don't seem to have the matchup down as well as we do, for various reasons, so feel free to abuse that with things they're not used to like bair wall mixups with airdodges behind them and whatnot.

Okay, biggest issue: getting grabbed. Don't let it happen. Always retreat your aerials unless you are POSITIVE they are spaced perfectly and/or will not hit their shield. Better safe than sorry, y'know.

That being said, bair is great. I prefer to empty SH a lot, so if the spacing is right I can shff bair, if it isn't I can DJ bair and retreat, and if I'm pissing my pants I can jumpshine. With empty SHs at the right distance, I find that I'm open to the most options, depending on what my opponent's reaction is. Speaking of getting grabbed, idk who uses ftilt that much, but if they shield the first hit you're getting ***** hard by a shieldgrab, so keep that in mind.

D3 can ledge infinite you and smallstep cg you and regular cg you, do what you can to avoid the ledge infinite at all costs. At the end of the cg, you can get hit by a ftilt or dtilt. Dtilt is the more common one for gimping, so be prepared to DI that up a lot. However, some D3's might anticipate a jump and try to outpredict you with fsmash, keep an eye out for that.

IMPORTANT TIP on the cg, kinda. It fails on slants (downwards only iirc), you can shine or spotdodge out. Hopefully the D3 knows their character well and just ftilts you out of it, or something similar (I say hopefully because it's just disappointing if we know something they don't about their character). Use this to your advantage though, or at least whenever you're on a slanted stage. Slanted stages also let us slide more when landing, which could be used for safer aerials, but yeah.

Now that we're past the grab, the other move that's a real *****: bair. It will butt**** your recovery. Do what Asaph said I guess, I'm not too good at handling bair. Shine/jumpshine if you think you're close enough, FFAD, whatever you think will get you to the ledge, but above all, DI UP. Good DI is very important in not getting gimped. Oh, and also, save your second jump if possible, but that's common knowledge by now. On stage, I've heard it can lead into a grab, so definitely don't let that happen (jumpshine <3).

Other crap that this penguin has over us is his weight. While it does make him easier to combo, the fact that he's tough to kill overrides combos. I honestly can't land a dsmash on D3, I'm that scared to get close to him, so there's a lot of damage racking to do. Combos at lower %s, know your SHFF uair combos and at what general %s your bair combos start working (having bair > fsmash shielded = cg city). At higher %s, go as safe as possible, main objective isn't just to not get grabbed, but just not get hit.

Some complain about Dee's and Doo's blocking lasers, that's kinda true, but you can SH blaster over them, and the bayonet can smack them around. I prefer to use dtilt to get rid of them though (might not knock them off on FD sadly... but it's quick and safe-ish and whatever). You can reflect gordos, and definitely take care of the Doo's as soon as possible, lest you want to get shocked and then cg'd.

Airdodging behind D3's shield during the wolf wall or whatever is pretty good, as is being behind him in general because it eliminated the dreadful shieldgrab. However, bair OoS is still there to bother us. A good D3 should, IMO, be able to cover up crossups fairly well, but reaction time and unpredictability makes this a moot point I guess, idk. Try it out, every vid I've seen makes good use of it, but it's not something I use much, if ta all.

D3's like to spotdodge, so be sure you hold A when you jab to catch them as they're coming out. Jab mixups are clearly very risky, but it's your call. They also like to fair when recovering, so if you see that coming, go for the spike.

Now, onto why I don't think it's that bad.There are a lot of things that Wolf actually has going for him here. Bair, as everyone mentioned, can do a great job of keeping D3 at bay so long as you know what you're doing and do it well. Find a method that works for you, preferrably one that emphasizes retreating and not landing in front of D3 often. Keep your options open for mixups, and take whichever ones seem benefitial at the moment.

Jumpshine can get you out in a pinch, but don't get too predictable, it's not fail-safe. D3's ftilt reaches past your preferred zone, there's not much you can do if he just stands there. Definitely don't jumpshine though, because he'll fair you out of it, find some other way to move past him in the air, and remember to be safe.

Fair and uair are also good here. Retreating fairs are quite safe, and if you ever have an opening for shff uair, combo time! I like to jumpshine and then FF uair behind if D3 is in lag for combos, but idk how often that would actually be a good strategy. Retreating fairs though, really good stuff, as I'm sure everyone already knows. When D3 is in the air, I prefer to punish his landing, but either way he's a relatively easy target.

D3 has the worst aerial mobility in the game, Wolf has among the top. This means that you should clearly be taking to the air for zoning/spacing/whatever, and also that he'll have a really hard time DIing out of usmash (usmash OoS is fun for punishing). Juggling and punishing landing lag is made somewhat easier because of this as well.

Another fun thing, gimping. Yeah I know I'm ********. Shine gimp > blaster gimp works well. If you go far offstage, you're not making it back, but carefully done it can screw D3 over, practically a free stock. Idk, it's stupid, but looks cool and makes you feel super awesome. Watch out for swallowcides though, not fun. D3 falls like a cinderblock, pressure him offstage. And if he makes it back somehow, punish his landing. Offstage elements are definitely worth taking advantage of once you're ready.

Last but not least, stage counterpicks. Idk, delfino sounds like a baaaaaaaad idea, but I've had a few unfortunate runs there, so maybe I'm biased. Other people covered that for me though. Lylat, I really think it's a good stage against D3, but I need to look into it some more. BF is ****, YI is probably the next best neutral. Idk crap about other CP stages, but walkoffs are bad >_>

Yeah, I guess that's it for now. 60:40 ish, imo.

Asaph said:

Actually, I've found that looking directly at the opponent and asking "You like ****, don't ya?" causes them to open a window for a shine in the CG. Otherwise you're completely ignored and feel kinda stupid. I have a large success rate though...with only one dude. >.> Point still stands though.

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I'm trying this out sometime

Asaph said:

@Anonano

I would think the opposite, unless he's vulnerable. DDD has an enormous grab range, calling for perfect bairs, which, if I'm correct, are not exactly easy to do without having practiced.

All it takes are about two waddles from DDD, and then he can PS walk through your SH lasers, using the waddles to stop grounded lasers.

Although most people are incapable of using winning strategies such as PS walking and choose to stay grounded and take the battle. I still don't get that.

Actually, I've found that looking directly at the opponent and asking "You like ****, don't ya?" causes them to open a window for a shine in the CG. Otherwise you're completely ignored and feel kinda stupid. I have a large success rate though...with only one dude. >.> Point still stands though.

That particular situation seems unlikely, but I can see it being pulled off. I would only ever do it after I've baired a DDD already. Bair > flash is kinda sexy.

But I honestly would NEVER do this in a match. After watching the **** that occured in JJ's match against Zedd from one grab, I think it's safe to say that there are no 'risk-taking' moves you should throw out there.

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First, all he can have is two waddles. And most players don't PS shield walk... at first. When they start, switch strategies. Basic idea.

Your point about the mikeHAZE AT does not stand, because you are using your personal experience to overrule my personal experience. I have a 100% success rate against 10 different competitive opponents. I guess you just can't scream as loudly or as humorously as I or mikeHAZE can.

Every move is a risk-taking move, because as you have helped me prove, D3 has a counter-strategy to almost all of Wolf's strategies (although most people do not use them). Bair needs to be perfectly spaced and done in just the right way to avoid getting grabbed, which is almost inhuman. Lazers can be stopped or PSed. Spamming doesn't work, rushing doesn't work, spacing aerials works only if one is perfect, Shine can be countered as well.
So, as most of your options can be countered if predicted correctly, its best to have a variety of options. Frankly, I would not use the flash technique ever in most matches. But its a plausible strategy, and one worth mentioning.

Also, you take issue with me saying "SH and FH bairs and fairs" when most other people have said "use bair in such and such a way" and you let them off easy. You get ticked off at a more general form of exactly what other people have been saying. Grrrrr. I'm watching you.

First, all he can have is two waddles.

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lol I know.

Your point about the mikeHAZE AT does not stand, because you are using your personal experience to overrule my personal experience. I have a 100% success rate against 10 different competitive opponents. I guess you just can't scream as loudly or as humorously as I or mikeHAZE can.

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Oh, you're way is fine, I'm just proposing the use of another AT if the other becomes predictable and punishable. lol

Every move is a risk-taking move

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Blastering someone from across the stage has no risk.

Bair needs to be perfectly spaced and done in just the right way to avoid getting grabbed, which is almost inhuman.

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Exactly, which is why DDD isn't "begging" us to bair him. It's like saying the "Death Star is easy to hit, let's shoot rockets at it and ****." If you don't do it perfectly (like shooting your missles into the little explode-me-here hole), you're gonna get ****ed up.

If you're God and can perfectly space everything, then DDD is indeed saying, "Please **** me," and I am definitely encouraging you to do so.

Point in case, if you're not going to perfectly space all the bairs and never get grabbed, don't spam and abuse it. Because then you're the one who's begging to get *****.

You get what I'm saying, right? One grab, as displayed in the JJvsZedd, can be your stock. If you see a hole in my argument, please point it out to me.

Also, you take issue with me saying "SH and FH bairs and fairs" when most other people have said "use bair in such and such a way" and you let them off easy. You get ticked off at a more general form of exactly what other people have been saying. Grrrrr. I'm watching you.

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Sorry now, what? o.o Was I doing that memory thing where I forget stuff or was I doing that other thing where I completely change my opinion? ^^;

Ishy said:

Another fun thing, gimping. Yeah I know I'm ********. Shine gimp > blaster gimp works well. If you go far offstage, you're not making it back, but carefully done it can screw D3 over, practically a free stock. Idk, it's stupid, but looks cool and makes you feel super awesome. Watch out for swallowcides though, not fun. D3 falls like a cinderblock, pressure him offstage. And if he makes it back somehow, punish his landing. Offstage elements are definitely worth taking advantage of once you're ready.

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I'm not gonna be a hypocrite here, because once-upon-a-time I said "Grab DDD! It'll work!" like a ****ing moron, but I will say I'd never do that personally.

DDD has a mean fair. Approach him from the stage, and you're getting stage spiked. If you can play a perfect offstage game with shine and bair/dair, please proceed to ****, but remember what DDD is capable of. He also has more jumps than you, so while you may have options, there is only so big of a window you can use them.

Also, he's got super armor when using UpB. A smart DDD will know your sneaky, ninja, monkey plan and use UpB, and depending upon your position he could cancel it and grab onto the stage, effectively edge hogging you.

Asaph is one smart cookie.

On a serious note, it's nearly impossible NOT to get grabbed by a DDD. Why? Because that's all their trying to do. You saw the video, all Zedd did was throw waddles and attempt to grab. Unfortunately, one grab and its good game.

Unless you can space 99% of your bairs perfectly, do not try to bair spam. play smart.

Would jungle japes or brinstar be good vs dedede?

Asaph said:

Exactly, which is why DDD isn't "begging" us to bair him. It's like saying the "Death Star is easy to hit, let's shoot rockets at it and ****." If you don't do it perfectly (like shooting your missles into the little explode-me-here hole), you're gonna get ****ed up.

If you're God and can perfectly space everything, then DDD is indeed saying, "Please **** me," and I am definitely encouraging you to do so.

Point in case, if you're not going to perfectly space all the bairs and never get grabbed, don't spam and abuse it. Because then you're the one who's begging to get *****.

You get what I'm saying, right? One grab, as displayed in the JJvsZedd, can be your stock. If you see a hole in my argument, please point it out to me.

Sorry now, what? o.o Was I doing that memory thing where I forget stuff or was I doing that other thing where I completely change my opinion? ^^;

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I do understand what you're saying.
And I'm saying I'm going to hold my opinion. D3 is indeed begging, pleading, mikeHAZING for a chance for you to bair him, because then he can grab you. xD
(AKA You are right )

However, if you manage to hit D3 with a bair (because at one point in the match, you will need bair) then keep keep up the pressure for a little while.

...It worked for me. But now that I think about it, my mikeHAZing must have been providing more benefits than I had originally expected. lolololol

I guess this means my greatest encouragment for this matchup is to learn the mH AT. Makes this matchup 70:30 Wolf's favor.

D3's super armor sucks >_> And Arrows, you saw that the D3 waiting for a grab was getting ***** in the meantime, right? If that's all he does, a good wolf will take him down so long as they don't take any huge risks.

Ishieymoro said:

D3's super armor sucks >_> And Arrows, you saw that the D3 waiting for a grab was getting ***** in the meantime, right? If that's all he does, a good wolf will take him down so long as they don't take any huge risks.

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Aw, I expected this bad ***, smart *** post, and I got "D3's super armor sucks."

I died inside, Ishy... I died...

But it does D: That's all there is to it. I uair D3 out of his upB every time he tries it. Soooo easy to punish.

And I guess at the ascencion his SA is good, but it takes a while to kick in, making it somewhat pointless, imo.

If you aren't grabbed by ddd, you're good.
I think you should incorperate mikeHAZE's AT into your game. It makes you unbeatable.

A stationary DDD is a dead DDD...Because its so easy to space when the target is still. If he's Dashing back and forth, walking towards and backwards, retreating pivot grabs, messing up with your spacing, you're probably not going to win on the ground...So Brinstar may be your best counter pick.

Brinstar really is a good stage for Wolf overall. We should tell DMG to play there once as Wolf and intelligently spam jumpshines/bairs, see how it turns out.

What are some different things Jumpshine can combo into?

It only true combos into nair, but you can maybe get a bair off too... depends, we haven't tested advantages on airborne opponents yet to truly know.

Still a **** move though. <3 Jumpshine.