true up-b braking isn't that good but like someone else said, DK is going to be spacing like crazy since all wario does is jump around and dodge to avoid us and grab SERIOUS FALCO SYNDROME. land a f-smash you say? why land when you risk getting grabbed and taking 20+% and dying at 90%
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and are you really going to chase DK off stage and be under him? that's pretty dangerous.
side B turn around is bad, neutral b turn around is better.
oh well, we'll decide this at no koast
Dunno. 0 -110% + positional advantage + time to build waft vs. usmash for like 20% and death at like 90 from fsmash...
Seems even if you think about it that way, Wario still has the edge.
There's the price of Dedede's Standing Infinite being gone.
Please, everyone who advocates banning Dedede's Infinite in order to make Donkey Kong (and it pretty much only is Donkey Kong) more viable, why should Donkey Kong players be the only ones that should get their characters be more viable?
Why don't we ban other tactics in order to make other characters more viable?
You're wrong. There is absolutely no price to pay for banning the standing infinite. The only things that the ban can bring is joy, money, more attendance at tournaments, and a larger community. There is absolutely no downside whatsoever for the standing infinite being banned. The slippery slope argument doesn't really fit this debate.
Either way, the reason DK and Luigi should be freed from the standing infinite, and nobody else should be "protected from their problems" is simple. There are a few reasons actually.
#1. The standing infinite seems to require the least amount of space of any 100%+ CG barring Pikachu on Captain Falcon and the Ice Climbers infinites. As such, it can be performed on any stage, at any time, even on platforms. The only exception to this is when Lylat occasionally messes with the standing infinite slightly and throws things off slightly if they are on the main platform. By banning Lylat, DK and Luigi are screwed.
#2. D3's grab range is the largest non-tether grab in the game, which when combined with the fact that the CG requires very little space, the standing infinite becomes a devastating tool that can be performed at any moment, on any platform, and can be set up using the easiest, most efficient, and most commonly used defensive option in the game: The Shieldgrab. Combine this once more with the fact that most standing infinited characters are close-range combat, and you may be able to realize just how horribly matched these characters are. Also remember once again that unlike the Ice Climbers or characters who require room to perform regular chaingrabs, King Dedede cannot be separated, and he always has the largest non-tether grab range, making the conditions to set up the standing infinite even easier.
#3. If it weren't for the standing infinite, DK and Luigi would actually matter in the metagame. As much as one may say this is just speculation, and that other characters exist that bring down DK and Luigi, the fact remains that DK and Luigi have a variety of good, well-placed matchups that allow them to become a powerful force unless the opponent actually mains or is otherwise well versed in their counterpick characters. With the standing infinite in place, anyone can, and if they want to win, will pick D3 to completely eliminate those 7 characters from the brackets with virtually no preparation required. With the standing infinite in place, Luigi and DK's potential can never be truly identified because of the ease of which they can be counterpicked.
#4. Possibly the most important fact about the standing infinite is that it is, in fact, a standing infinite, and will ALWAYS result in death, unlike most CGs which have no finisher and leave the opponent at a high %. Other CGs have a starting and eventually a point where the CG will not be possible anymore. For example, Falco cannot be CG'd in place before 20%, and the farther up you go past 20%, the less effective the CG will become, as it will end at a lower % than if you started at 20%. This is not the case for the standing infinite. It can be started at any point in time, and will always end at 300% with an instant killing throw.
#5. There can be a definite ban criteria to ban the standing infinite. Other than the common-sense based "Standing Infinites are banned" rule, which is pretty hard to get around in its own right, if one really must be specific, one could simply say "While chaingrabbing, King Dedede must initiate an initial dash between regrabs." and be done with it. There is no way to get around that rule, no arguments about how many regrabs are allowed before the next wave, and the only non-infinited characters affected by this rule are Charizard, Wario, and Ganondorf, all of which are already CG'able, and who only escape about 2-3 regrabs at most across FD. I doubt the DDDs will be devastated at this loss.
In short, with absolutely no preparation or experience with DDD whatsoever, you have the power to not only force a huge chunk of time being lost on the clock, but an instant kill from any % on any stage on any platform at any time using the most basic defensive option in the game by a character with the largest grab range on a character with either very poor or no projectiles whatsoever who would otherwise be completely viable in competitive play. However, this alone is not the problem. As an ironic twist, the sheer ease of use of this tactic is actually apparent enough to completely erase otherwise viable characters from the metagame, and actually has been proven to both operate in this fashion commonly, and that it actually has been affecting tournament results. For example, at CH3, Boss lost to Basic Sausage, a random DDD who won with the infinite.
If a response involves "there are other characters who have matchups in which they get wrecked, such as Jigglypuff vs. GnW but we're not helping them," I shall tell them the core differences between Jigglypuff vs. GnW and King Dedede vs. Donkey Kong. For one, Jigglypuff vs. GnW is a clash of many encounters, slowly building up damage like a regular match, while King Dedede vs. Donkey Kong is decided in 3 attacks that hit King Dedede's shield, a near-perfect defensive option that comes out in one frame. Jigglypuff vs. GnW cannot be fixed with the simple ban of an overpowered glitch or exploit. And most importantly, there's the psychological aspect that gives Jigglypuff users the illusion that they have a chance against GnW. By drawing out the battle and leaving both users in complete control of their character, the Jigglypuff user gets the illusion that they can actually win. With the standing infinite, all of your options are wrenched from your fingers. You cannot move, you cannot DI, you cannot do anything but watch as your opponent takes a few minutes to move you on up to 300% using the same, boring motion over and over again, and then finish you with bthrow. There have been studies that have shown that the absolute most horrible feeling that one can get from a video game is the feeling of helplessness that you get when you become completely unable to control the fate of your own character.
Also I'm going to be pissed if this post gets overlooked. I swear I'll repost it if that happens. I spent way too much time typing this. :<
