MythTrainerInfinity
Smash Champion
0. Hey guys if some of you know me from AiB I have been trying to spark a bit more research and discussion into Lucario's metagame and well seeing Phil so enthusiastic about helping at AiB and here I figured I might as well too.
0. Sup?
1. Integer Aura Damage Increases
2. Non-Stall DAir
3. Projects that need to be worked on...
1. First up is Lucario's Aura Damage Percent increases. Most of it is copy/pasted from my original post of it and some of the info you may already know, but for those who don't... This is useful.
The Aura damage increase beyond 75% slows down, also all unchangeable moves get a boost at 75%. Many of Lucario's Aura based moves have what I like to call "Aura Growth Lag" meaning it takes awhile for it to even start increasing much (ex. his Up Tilt doesn't increase in a full percent of damage until 45%). Some of the growth rates below 75% are rather strange, but it seems the ones after 75% are rather predictable.
Since some people like details... I tested this on in Training Mode (no move degradation, yay) on a character at 0% (healed after every move test). I did not include every little .1% of an increase because that would take me alone probably over two days non-stop (I love Smash, but that is ridiculous).
Other Data Interpretations
As you may already know 170% is the damage cap for Lucario's Aura (not like you'll always be surviving past that point anyway). The power of Lucario's moves at best double when he's at even stock with his opponent.
Did you know that Lucario's second Jab doesn't even do 3% when he's at 170%? You guys might want to consider just using A->Force Palm over AA->Force Palm because of less risk and it almost does negligible damage.
If tl;dr when you hit 75% with Lucario go to town damaging your opponent.
Aura Growth Comparison of moves (Ledge Attack omitted):
Initial damage 1%, peak 2%: Second Jab
Initial damage 2%, peak 4%: First Jab
Initial damage 3%, peak 7%: Third Jab, Forward Air
Initial damage 4%, peak 8%: Up Throw, Up Tilt
Initial damage 4%, peak 9%: Down Tilt, Neutral Air (Late)
Initial damage 5%, peak 10%: Aura Sphere (No Charge)
Initial damage 5%, peak 11%: Force Palm (Far)
Initial damage 6%, peak 12%: Force Palm (Middle), Up Smash No Charge (Late), Back Air (Late)
Initial damage 7%, peak 14%: All Three Jabs, Up Air, Force Palm (Close), Forward Throw
Initial damage 7%, peak 15%: Neutral Air (Begin), Double Team
Initial damage 8%, peak 16%: Back Air (Begin)
Initial damage 8%, peak 17%: Up Smash Full Charge (Late)
Initial damage 9%, peak 18%: Force Palm (Grab), Up Smash No Charge (Begin), Forward Tilt
Initial damage 9%, peak 19%: Forward Smash No Charge, Down Smash No Charge
Initial damage 11%, peak 22%: Down Air, Forward Smash No Charge (Tip)
Initial damage 12%, peak 25%: Up Smash Full Charge (Begin)
Initial damage 13%, peak 26%: Aura Sphere Full Charge
Initial damage 13%, peak 27%: Forward Smash Full Charge, Down Smash Full Charge
Initial damage 15%, peak 31%: Forward Smash Full Charge (Tip)
2. Back in early August we started discussing how to do this in AiB and with some tinkering around I figured out how to do it. (Major props go to Nubsta and Phil for bringing it up and inspiring ways on how to do it.)
So far there are two ways known to do a non-stall DAir that’s not out of hitstun.
1. Fast Fall Non-Stall: This is where you fast fall and buffer it into a DAir. If you inputted it correctly Lucario will fall slightly while using DAir. You can cancel the second hit if you’re close enough to the ground. Technically it doesn’t negate stalling in the air, but it slows it down.
2. Rising DAir: When Lucario’s shield gets hit by an attack and it isn’t perfect shielded there is a time when you can jump up and do a rising DAir, forward rising DAir, or a backwards rising DAir. From my tests I have noticed that this happens when you jump out of shield when it is being pushed back and then DAir. However, this will require more testing because the possibilities are very applicable. So far it seems like it is the easiest to do when your shield is hit with a higher shield knockback move (think Snake’s tilts and the like). Again this is a very awesome discovery that could really help us against characters like Marth.
3. WIP Projects that need help.
The rising DAir has a lot of potential and if someone could get some videos up of it to analyze and discuss that’d be awesome (as I lack the means to) and would be greatly appreciated. The FFNS DAir has some combo potential too.
What really needs help figuring out when Aura Sphere out prioritizes moves. To know when it beats a certain common move will help widen our options against it. The chart I made linked earlier in this post will make it easier to figure out.
So far we know…
10% Aura Sphere beats Mach Tornado.
*Marth's non-tippered FAir will get out prioritized by an Aura Sphere that does 20% (Lucario needs to be at least around 91%).
Marth's non-tippered FSmash gets out prioritized when an Aura Sphere does 22% (Luc needs to be at least around 117%).
*Note: I'm not 100% sure on this, but it seemed like the lower part of Marth's FAir had less priority (as weaker Aura Spheres hit), but I'd need the conformation for that. However, to be safe 91% and 117% should be key percents you should be noting when dealing with Marf.
Here’s some that John12346 found on AiB.
0. Sup?
1. Integer Aura Damage Increases
2. Non-Stall DAir
3. Projects that need to be worked on...
1. First up is Lucario's Aura Damage Percent increases. Most of it is copy/pasted from my original post of it and some of the info you may already know, but for those who don't... This is useful.
The Aura damage increase beyond 75% slows down, also all unchangeable moves get a boost at 75%. Many of Lucario's Aura based moves have what I like to call "Aura Growth Lag" meaning it takes awhile for it to even start increasing much (ex. his Up Tilt doesn't increase in a full percent of damage until 45%). Some of the growth rates below 75% are rather strange, but it seems the ones after 75% are rather predictable.
Since some people like details... I tested this on in Training Mode (no move degradation, yay) on a character at 0% (healed after every move test). I did not include every little .1% of an increase because that would take me alone probably over two days non-stop (I love Smash, but that is ridiculous).
Other Data Interpretations
As you may already know 170% is the damage cap for Lucario's Aura (not like you'll always be surviving past that point anyway). The power of Lucario's moves at best double when he's at even stock with his opponent.
Did you know that Lucario's second Jab doesn't even do 3% when he's at 170%? You guys might want to consider just using A->Force Palm over AA->Force Palm because of less risk and it almost does negligible damage.
If tl;dr when you hit 75% with Lucario go to town damaging your opponent.
Aura Growth Comparison of moves (Ledge Attack omitted):
Initial damage 1%, peak 2%: Second Jab
Initial damage 2%, peak 4%: First Jab
Initial damage 3%, peak 7%: Third Jab, Forward Air
Initial damage 4%, peak 8%: Up Throw, Up Tilt
Initial damage 4%, peak 9%: Down Tilt, Neutral Air (Late)
Initial damage 5%, peak 10%: Aura Sphere (No Charge)
Initial damage 5%, peak 11%: Force Palm (Far)
Initial damage 6%, peak 12%: Force Palm (Middle), Up Smash No Charge (Late), Back Air (Late)
Initial damage 7%, peak 14%: All Three Jabs, Up Air, Force Palm (Close), Forward Throw
Initial damage 7%, peak 15%: Neutral Air (Begin), Double Team
Initial damage 8%, peak 16%: Back Air (Begin)
Initial damage 8%, peak 17%: Up Smash Full Charge (Late)
Initial damage 9%, peak 18%: Force Palm (Grab), Up Smash No Charge (Begin), Forward Tilt
Initial damage 9%, peak 19%: Forward Smash No Charge, Down Smash No Charge
Initial damage 11%, peak 22%: Down Air, Forward Smash No Charge (Tip)
Initial damage 12%, peak 25%: Up Smash Full Charge (Begin)
Initial damage 13%, peak 26%: Aura Sphere Full Charge
Initial damage 13%, peak 27%: Forward Smash Full Charge, Down Smash Full Charge
Initial damage 15%, peak 31%: Forward Smash Full Charge (Tip)
2. Back in early August we started discussing how to do this in AiB and with some tinkering around I figured out how to do it. (Major props go to Nubsta and Phil for bringing it up and inspiring ways on how to do it.)
So far there are two ways known to do a non-stall DAir that’s not out of hitstun.
1. Fast Fall Non-Stall: This is where you fast fall and buffer it into a DAir. If you inputted it correctly Lucario will fall slightly while using DAir. You can cancel the second hit if you’re close enough to the ground. Technically it doesn’t negate stalling in the air, but it slows it down.
2. Rising DAir: When Lucario’s shield gets hit by an attack and it isn’t perfect shielded there is a time when you can jump up and do a rising DAir, forward rising DAir, or a backwards rising DAir. From my tests I have noticed that this happens when you jump out of shield when it is being pushed back and then DAir. However, this will require more testing because the possibilities are very applicable. So far it seems like it is the easiest to do when your shield is hit with a higher shield knockback move (think Snake’s tilts and the like). Again this is a very awesome discovery that could really help us against characters like Marth.
3. WIP Projects that need help.
The rising DAir has a lot of potential and if someone could get some videos up of it to analyze and discuss that’d be awesome (as I lack the means to) and would be greatly appreciated. The FFNS DAir has some combo potential too.
What really needs help figuring out when Aura Sphere out prioritizes moves. To know when it beats a certain common move will help widen our options against it. The chart I made linked earlier in this post will make it easier to figure out.
So far we know…
10% Aura Sphere beats Mach Tornado.
*Marth's non-tippered FAir will get out prioritized by an Aura Sphere that does 20% (Lucario needs to be at least around 91%).
Marth's non-tippered FSmash gets out prioritized when an Aura Sphere does 22% (Luc needs to be at least around 117%).
*Note: I'm not 100% sure on this, but it seemed like the lower part of Marth's FAir had less priority (as weaker Aura Spheres hit), but I'd need the conformation for that. However, to be safe 91% and 117% should be key percents you should be noting when dealing with Marf.
Here’s some that John12346 found on AiB.
There are other things I’m probably forgetting, but this should be helpful and useful to Lucario’s developing metagame.John12346 said:
Nah, its just nice though to join and participate in a community where people aren't breathing down my neck every minute.
