Pikachu Doubles Discussion.

~automatic · Aug 4, 2009

Yeah "thunder mouse" is pretty much what Pikachu means.
pika = the sound of lightning or a spark in Japanese, like "tra~" in Spanish.
chu = onomeatopeia for a mouse's squeak.
"nezumi" = mouse in Japanese.
I like "solid squirrel" as a team name. "Pikachu chaingrabs Foxhound" can also work for a team name I guess.

'kay ladies and bums, I'm summarizing this matchup soon (prolly start that on Thursday if I have time) so add anything that you feel has been ommited from the previous posts in relation to the team and brainstorm ideas for an epic win team name.

[FBC] ESAM · Aug 4, 2009

A better team name would be electric viper (electric = pikachu, viper is a type of snake)

Nicholas1024 · Aug 4, 2009

Sometimes its harder to come up with a team name than the tactics!

[FBC] ESAM · Aug 4, 2009

We should discuss G&W next. I really like that team :D

lmntolp · Aug 6, 2009

The best I've came up with so far is Thunder Gear Solid. There's also Bombchu, but that's from zelda games so it should be for link/toon link

gallax · Aug 6, 2009

i like thunder gear solid. what an epic team name.

~automatic · Aug 6, 2009

Suck it wid yo' bucket!

Started the Snake summary; I'll have that posted soon. Lets move on shall we

ESAM said:
We should discuss G&W next. I really like that team :D

Pika's partner this week is:
Mr. Game and Watch

1. Team profile + Synergy
- In what ways can this team operate efficiently?
- Can Pikachu’s move set and traits compliment the partner and vice versa?
- Epic/failure team?
- Any setups possible?
- Overall strengths and weaknesses of this team.
- What to ban and counterpick.
- Cool team name (Snake+Pit = snake pit or Ness+Pikachu= PKchu/Pikawesomeness)
for lulz.

2. Operational Procedures
- How to play as a team with the character being discussed.
- Can this team annoy the crap out of the other team by spamming?
- Should this team be aggressive in close quarters or defensive from a ranged distance? Passive aggressive?
- What roles should Pikachu perform and what should the other character do?
- How can the characters assist each other?

3. Benefits to Pikachu/partner.
- Does Pikachu help in killing or strengthens kill potential in this team?
- Can projectiles be used efficiently as a team attack?
- What can Pikachu get out of teaming with this character?
- Can the character hold stocks?
- Can the characters negate their bad matchups?

4. Final thoughts.
Your overall take on the team and the traits discussed. This can be anything on your mind about the discussion regarding the team that hasn’t been mentioned.

Y'all know the drill!

Alphicans · Aug 7, 2009

Frio and I team all the time, and this is the combination we use. I like it because pikachu really supplements game and watch nicely with his thunder. I find that move really pivotal in our matches, because it can make GaW's ridiculous kill power ever better. Another great thing about this team is uair stalling into thunder. We've gotten many kills using this and rainbow cruise sets this up really nicely. And of course the bucket can be really useful as well, but mainly for clutch 2v1 situations when you're both at high% and he has a fresh stock.

Legendary Pikachu · Aug 13, 2009

I do like this team.

1) KO power
2) Gimping power
3) G&W can protect himself from jolts and thunder
4) BOTH have top 2 BEST momentum canceling options... lol
5) Pikachu's hits 'em high (thunder), G&W hits them low (d-air, ground-game)
6) Easy to save either partner if any burned their up-b already and are free-falling
7) G&W's long-lasting dash attack hitbox is ANNOYINGLY GOOD to set up opponents in the air (pika's will know what to do from there.... lol)
8) Safe aerials to use if partner knows how to DI good (pika's b-air, and G&W's b-air)
9) G&W's u-smash seals a missed thunder kill almost always if G&W has time.
10) My bro and my occasional tactic: G&W spam smashes and dashes while running into a t-jolt at the right timing > cancels whatever G&W is doing (especially dash attack) and he can proceed to doing anything else he wants
11) G&W u-air > thunder stall of course.
12) Both have moves that OVERCOME tornado (just thought that should be mentioned... lol)

G&W's bucket works very nice with a "Lockdown-EdgeHog." See the new team AT here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8104088#post8104088

Razek · Aug 14, 2009

Here is a trick me and my doubles partner cooked up....its nice =D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao0gfvO6t2g
enjoy

gallax · Aug 14, 2009

nicely done raz.

Razek · Aug 14, 2009

ty

about 95% or more of this credit belongs to nova. Hes the one that asked me if id think it would work. all I said was yes =D.

Razek · Aug 14, 2009

Here is some more sexiness for you guys. 1 thunder>full bucket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhdrcD2IgWc
As always enjoy =D
Pretty sure omegablackmage found this out as well so dibs to him!

~automatic · Aug 14, 2009

nice job raz (+nova) but mostly raz for showing us this stuff. your guy's finds match the current thread title. lolz
imma write up something 'bout the team, its probably stuff we all know so it wont be that difficult. And prolly post the snake team (thunder gear solid) summary as well.

@legend: do you have a vid or a replay u can send me w/ that lockdown edgehog?

KayLo! · Aug 14, 2009

~automatic said:
@legend: do you have a vid or a replay u can send me w/ that lockdown edgehog?

Go to the link he posted. He posted a vid.

Legendary Pikachu · Aug 14, 2009

Razek said:
Here is some more sexiness for you guys. 1 thunder>full bucket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhdrcD2IgWc
As always enjoy =D
Pretty sure omegablackmage found this out as well so dibs to him!

Oh... its the 'Aftershock' AT effect thing. Never saw it used with the bucket before. Nice find!

:D

KayLo! · Aug 18, 2009

EDIT: Ignore this. Apparently I don't read, lol.

~automatic · Aug 27, 2009

Well apparently that's as much movement as we are going to have in this thread with Game and Watch.

Pika's partner this week is:
Wario

1. Team profile + Synergy
- In what ways can this team operate efficiently?
- Can Pikachu’s move set and traits compliment the partner and vice versa?
- Epic/failure team?
- Any setups possible?
- Overall strengths and weaknesses of this team.
- What to ban and counterpick.
- Cool team name (Snake+Pit = snake pit or Ness+Pikachu= PKchu/Pikawesomeness)
for lulz.

2. Operational Procedures
- How to play as a team with the character being discussed.
- Can this team annoy the crap out of the other team by spamming?
- Should this team be aggressive in close quarters or defensive from a ranged distance? Passive aggressive?
- What roles should Pikachu perform and what should the other character do?
- How can the characters assist each other?

3. Benefits to Pikachu/partner.
- Does Pikachu help in killing or strengthens kill potential in this team?
- Can projectiles be used efficiently as a team attack?
- What can Pikachu get out of teaming with this character?
- Can the character hold stocks?
- Can the characters negate their bad matchups?

4. Final thoughts.
Your overall take on the team and the traits discussed. This can be anything on your mind about the discussion regarding the team that hasn’t been mentioned.

Y'all know the drill!

gallax · Aug 28, 2009

wario is a great teammate to have, but imho, not the best choice for pika. id take snake/gaw/lucas/mk over wario anyday.

~automatic · Aug 28, 2009

gallax said:
wario is a great teammate to have, but imho, not the best choice for pika. id take snake/gaw/lucas/mk over wario anyday.

Actually that's why I chose Wario for the discussion. Wario can hold stocks, kill, has a great recovery and can do well against some of Pikachu's bad matchups. On paper Wario is awesome in doubles but teamed with Pikachu the team can lack some things.
I'll write more shtuff later.

Deleted member · Aug 29, 2009

Yoshi+pika go mario go!

KayLo! · Sep 2, 2009

Wario's definitely a good teammate for Pika.... not the absolute best, but he's good.

He has an easy time killing and is heavy/ungimpable enough to stock tank, so in that sense, he fills roles that Pika can't. While Pikachu can control the ground with tjolts, Wario can keep decent control over the air with his excellent aerial movement and good aerials (read: dair).

Neither of them should need help recovering unless Wario accidentally leaves his bike on the stage, but if they do, Pika can help Wario get his up b back. Wario.... can't really do the same for Pikachu, but it shouldn't be a problem.

Pika's throws, especially fthrow/bthrow, are good setups for a Wario fart.

Tjolt/QAC can interrupt people trying to do grab release shenanigans on Wario.

Generally, both of them should be fairly good at damage racking, then Wario will usually be the one doing the killing.

Cons.... hmm. Wario doesn't have very many good moves that send the opponent far up into the air, so he's not the best teammate for thunder setups.

Other than that, I can't think of any major cons off the top of my head. Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks.

gallax · Sep 2, 2009

wario is a good partner in general. any wario should be a stock tank. and he really has no way to help pika. wario needs a support character like a marth or MK in teams.

overall though there are few team comboes and team specials that make this an amazing team. this is an average team at best.

~automatic · Sep 11, 2009

Needs more imput.

I'll write something up later.

Zee725 · Sep 12, 2009

I've teamed with SK92- Falco, FOW- Ness, LeoFTW- Wario, Samurai Panda- Snake, TheHebrewHammer- Mr. G&W, OGV- Captain Falcon, Ninewind- DK, Xero- Olimar. If you'd like any input as to what my experience was with them i'll be more than happy to elaborate ^_^

KayLo! · Sep 12, 2009

Well, we're doing Wario atm, so any info on him as a teammate would be great.

We also did Snake and G&W (I think), so if you wanna add a few things about them, that's cool too.

Metatitan · Sep 12, 2009

I COULD have teamed with burntsocks to try out the yoshi-pika team if the ******* didn't leave me for bone

gallax · Sep 12, 2009

im teaming with a wario next saturday

KayLo! · Sep 26, 2009

..........I don't see an epic LDPK post in here. Where's my doubles Pikachu master?!

Legendary Pikachu · Sep 26, 2009

Oh... my bad... I am not TOO familiar with working 'with' a wario. But i certainly see potential as an experienced doubles player.

Both can survive like no one's business. Both can straight up combo, kill, and gimp. Both can take on MK.
^^ just having a team of this calibur is pretty much good already. What's more, the way that both characters naturally play really compliment each other's individual weaknesses (if any)--that means... not only is this a good team, its a GOOD one that DOESNT REQUIRE each player to be familiiar with the other nearly as much. It can be like a "oh I found a wario... you do your thing, i'll do mine" and it just seems to flow right off the bat.

Let me elaborate. Wario's main concern is his lack of range. Wario's priority and attack/kill power and damage potential is amazing if you overlook the pure range of his hitboxes. As a result, most wario's weave all over the air landing frustrating hits here and there while baiting messups from and opponent for the oppurtunity to cause some REAL destruction. Pikachu on the other hand, almost is a "in your face before you know it" kind of character or semi-camping with t-jolts and other stuff. Pika's would sorta rambo in first against 1 or even 2 opponents and wario would land the hard-hitting moves later after the smoke clears. That's the general way i see it. Individually, both rock already, but with both characters being able to play their 'natural best' and with advantageous spacings that don't overlap each other (so they don't butt heads by accident), few times do you EVER worry about friendly-fire messups even when you guys are all over the opponent even in a confined spot on the stage. That can be a REAL butt-kicker if the pika and wario are skilled.

Wario's may not have entirely vertical sending attacks, much of them result diagonal sideways moves. The thing about thunder is that if you DI up while you get hit, you got STRAIGHT UP for a guarenteed 2nd thunder kill and its near unavoidable at that point. Almost ALL of wario's moves are quick-stab aerials that result in sending the opponent diagonal-sideways (which if the opponent's are high in damage, the opponent will almost always be DI'ing UP after getting hit) and it'll lead to this variant of a thunder KO. This means that wario could send an unknowing opponent above pikachu for the thunder gimp even when pikachu is decently far away. Wario can also cover opponents who successfully airdodge through thunder with u-air (killing the opponent at high damage if the opponent DI's towards wario, or dies from thunder if the opponent DI's away after the u-air hit).

Wario's bike can lag Pikachu's d-smash which helps against spotdodgers/rollers like rob or lucario's. Also Pikachu's thunder can be matrixed or lagged by the bike also which makes for an epic situational kill surprise.

So there's my add-ons to whatever was already mentioned.

Although short, I do believe the main strength of this team is the ability for both to be VERY natural and aggressive in their own ways and yet still be pretty much isolated from each other even when confined. A new pika and wario team could already do very well without much team practice and team combo's will just flow from their complimentary playstyles.

My only concern is if there's a character that are good against both pikachu AND wario (maybe marth), cuz since the strength of this team somewhat lies in their individual talents (isolation) a lot more than full blown synergy, the team is somewhat more sensitive to bad matchups.

GREK · Sep 29, 2009

Z and LeoFTW got 5th in teams with Wario+Pikachu at the Activegamers tournament

Legendary Pikachu · Sep 29, 2009

GREK said:
Z and LeoFTW got 5th in teams with Wario+Pikachu at the Activegamers tournament

See... my point exactly.... Lol... (half-j/k ^_^)

KayLo! · Sep 29, 2009

~auto: On the first page, second post (the directory of past discussions), you might want to link to the post where the discussion starts rather than the page. A lot of people don't go by default page settings, so sending them to a specific page might end up taking them to the wrong place.

Also, are we.... moving forward soon? I think we're about done with Wario for now. x.x

~automatic · Sep 29, 2009

Well I kinda want to get Z to post some stuff he does w/ Leo when they team up. This weekend I'm teaming w/ Tebeo so I'll come back w/ some stuff on Monday.

We are as good as done w/ Wario. If you peeps want to do a specific character post the one you want discussed. I'm thinking of Yoshi (I team w/ Burntsocks regularly) or King Dedede for our upcoming discussion. If nobody shows any interest in a particular character I'll just do one of those.

Jupz · Sep 29, 2009

Ooh! Do Dedede

KayLo! · Sep 29, 2009

Out of the two, I'd rather do DDD (since he's more common than Yoshi.... sorry ><) or ROB.

Zee725 · Oct 2, 2009

Wario and Pikachu are an amazing team, or i see it that way when teaming with LeoFTW. This team has virtually no bad matchups because both wario and pikachu cover each others weaknesses.

Usually our gameplan goes as follows:

Pikachu:
-chaingrab
-thunder when opponent is in air
-fight 2v1 as wario holds stocks
-Dsmash to seperate and let wario tech chase

Wario:
-KILL
-watch for pika to chaingrab and then Fart after last pika grab (If the timing is right)
-camp and punish
-stall 1 character as pika cg's the other

Teamwork is key, both pikachu and wario are very versatile characters, and if they are in a big cluster then things get iffy. As long as the pikachu is aware of wario getting release grabbed, both will be fine as far as taking massive amounts of damage. MKs are not a problem, there aren't many teams that you'll find that can overpower or just **** a pika/wario. Pikachu is great at racking up damage in teams and wario is great at killing, so me and leo stick to that thought process and we usually end up doing very well. Plus, we really haven't practiced our team at all for activegamers, we kinda just agreed to team and did pretty well if i say so myself =]

Legendary Pikachu · Oct 4, 2009

Zee725 said:
Wario and Pikachu are an amazing team, or i see it that way when teaming with LeoFTW. This team has virtually no bad matchups because both wario and pikachu cover each others weaknesses.

Usually our gameplan goes as follows:

Pikachu:
-chaingrab
-thunder when opponent is in air
-fight 2v1 as wario holds stocks
-Dsmash to seperate and let wario tech chase

Wario:
-KILL
-watch for pika to chaingrab and then Fart after last pika grab (If the timing is right)
-camp and punish
-stall 1 character as pika cg's the other

Teamwork is key, both pikachu and wario are very versatile characters, and if they are in a big cluster then things get iffy. As long as the pikachu is aware of wario getting release grabbed, both will be fine as far as taking massive amounts of damage. MKs are not a problem, there aren't many teams that you'll find that can overpower or just **** a pika/wario. Pikachu is great at racking up damage in teams and wario is great at killing, so me and leo stick to that thought process and we usually end up doing very well. Plus, we really haven't practiced our team at all for activegamers, we kinda just agreed to team and did pretty well if i say so myself =]

yay! my prediction (look below) was slightly correct after all ^_^.

Legendary Pikachu said:
Both can survive like no one's business. Both can straight up combo, kill, and gimp. Both can take on MK.
^^ just having a team of this calibur is pretty much good already. What's more, the way that both characters naturally play really compliment each other's individual weaknesses (if any)--that means... not only is this a good team, its a GOOD one that DOESNT REQUIRE each player to be familiiar with the other nearly as much. It can be like a "oh I found a wario... you do your thing, i'll do mine" and it just seems to flow right off the bat.

~automatic · Oct 5, 2009

****, Legend knows what up. I want some mad scientist knowledge of Pikachu.

OK, we got good stuff out of the Wario discussion. Let's move on.

burntsocks said:
Yoshi+pika go mario go!

Now discussing King Dedede. Sorry Burntsocks.

1. Team profile + Synergy
- In what ways can this team operate efficiently?
- Can Pikachu’s move set and traits compliment the partner and vice versa?
- Epic/fail team?
- Any setups possible?
- Overall strengths and weaknesses of this team.
- What to ban and counterpick.
- Cool team name for lulz.

2. Operation
- How to play as a team with the character being discussed.
- Spam?
- Should this team be aggressive in close quarters or defensive from a ranged distance? Passive aggressive?
- What roles should Pikachu perform and what should the other character do?
- How can the characters assist each other?

3. Benefits to Pikachu/partner.
- Does Pikachu help in killing or strengthens kill potential in this team?
- Can projectiles be used efficiently as a team attack?
- What can Pikachu get out of teaming with this character?
- Can the partner hold stocks?
- Do the characters negate their bad matchups?

4. Final thoughts.
Your overall take on the team and the traits discussed. This can be anything on your mind about the discussion regarding the team that hasn’t been mentioned.

Aaaaaaaaaand... GO!

Legendary Pikachu · Oct 6, 2009

ah... *draws a mental blank* ... for some odd reason, I am not getting my usual enlightening brainstorms... prolly because most of the DDD's in my area (almost none) suck. I'll probably add one of my epic (dictionary definition: 'long') posts on this matchup much later if no one else comes up to the plate by then who knows more about DDD's (ESAM get your butt in here and start spillin' them good beans >:D !).

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