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Guide Simna ibn Sind's Guide to PK Thunder (NTSC)

VilNess

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Yeah it´s nice we have players like Simna who eagerly want to discover new things. though that PKthunderwhattheyheydidjust happen? thing looks really hard it seems possible.

I think that there is much more to discover with Ness. Man I should prolly start practising him more than just think of a proper 2nd char.
Lately I´ve been using all 3 Mario brothers and Ganon for backup and they are fun to play too.

One thing though If fox is at high % (or anyone else for that matter), Ness is recovering and has his 2nd jump left. You can try an uair to hit fox away and recover with PK missile afterwards.
I have gotten some nice KO´s on luigis this way.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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SIND#745
Yeah...i know what you mean NESSBOUNDER...about Fox's who jump cancel quickly...its easier to do the further down they fall to shine you.

I don't try this one myself too often because of its difficulty, but I jump at the chance to do it when the fox has already used its second jump...really the only time i use it when they CAN jump cancel it is when im on my very last stock.

By the way...I've decided to do what NESSBOUNDER did in his guide and not update the same post, but rather I'll continue the guide in reply posts like this one

Here's an addition to the Advanced section:

----UPDATE ALERT----

Full-Range PK Thunder 2 -- The full range of PK Thunder 2 is not known by many people who don't play as Ness themselves. I don't mean the complete distance it travels(although some dont know that one either^_^), I mean the range of directions you can hit yourself using a PK Thunder travelling in a single direction. Imagine this scenario: <Ness is standing in the middle of FD. He has a PK Thunder out and its flying just above his head and perfectly parallel to FD.> Now most would say that while travelling in that direction that PK Thunder will either miss Ness or hit him across FD in the direction it is flying. The truth is, that PK Thunder can hit Ness in any direction that is not upward. The trajectory of PK Thunder 2 has nothing to do with the DIRECTION the PK Thunder is travelling. It DOES have to do with WHERE the PK Thunder is in relation to Ness and where it HITS Ness' body. Let's go back to that scenario: <The PK Thunder passes by Ness just barely over his head. Out of nowhere Ness screams and the next thing you see is Ness being fired backwards in the opposite direction the pk thunder was travelling.> This can also be done vertically. If Ness is in the air, a PK Thunder that is travelling alongside him moving straight down has the potential to send Ness straight up, or in any direction for that matter, except in the direction that the PK Thunder itself is blocking.
Hmm...let's see if I can do a diagram:



Now, a that PK Thunder will not send Ness anywhere as long as it stays above his head, but because it is floating just BARELY above his head it can be dropped onto any part of Ness' upperbody without and change in its animation before Ness is hit. This cannot send Ness in any upward direction because as long as the PK Thunder is above him, it cannot hit him from underneath. The same goes for the vertical version, if the pk thunder is travelling downwards on Ness' left side, it cannot send him in any leftward direction. (Note: When doing this in the air you must compensate for gravity...or rather I should say use it to your advantage)

Although this knowledge does not cut the lag of using PK Thunder, it does nearly all of its predictability. The speed at which you can drop the PKThunder on Ness (or drop him onto it for vertical) is faster than your opponent's maneuverability speed in the air or on the ground. Unless they know you well and can predict when and where you are going to hit yourself then they will be caught by surprise even when they expect it. Eventually your opponent will see the PK Thunder's blind side and move into it, knowing that you cannot move in that direction. If this happens then you don't need to worry. Simply turn the PK Thunder and hit your opponent or hit yourself into the ground.
(Personally, I find this technique easier to use in the air, however while you are in the air{u need to be pretty high...like full jump+midair jump or higher} your opponent has more options are moving around you and possibly...this makes it more risky and at the same time more effective.)


****....this one is difficult to explain...i hope i put in enough to get it clear to a few ppl....I need to make that vid to go along with this guide....when that's done it will be MUCH easier to get this stuff...cause trying to explain every detail on HOW to do them is harder than actually doing them.
 

VilNess

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Hey thanks for post!
You can see me doing that PKthunder lag canceling in the end of one tourney vid. which is Vilness (ness) vs. WMK ganon (Brinstar)
im not 100% sure of the name.
But if you look at the vid you´ll see guiding the thunder back at me saved my arse.

edit: oh my god! Is Ness really just a stickman with a bat , yoyo and a enormous head? :p funny pic.
 

dan smith

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Brain spasms from Dan Smith

Originally posted by VilNess
DAR:NS! DAN SMITH GOT TEH 1000TH POST IN NESS FORUMS! I WANTED THAT!
Oh...cool!

Originally poster by VilNess"recoverystandupattack"
I call these moves Reflex Attacks...AKA "Flex Kicks".

I had a few nice REAL LIFE PK Thunder incidents at a recent tourney. First you have to understand, I was heavily medicated...

Once I was chasing my opponent with a PK Thunder...kinda day dreamily. He wasn't that good...but I was paying so little attention that I actually hit myself...PK Missile lauching me at him.

Lucky Random KO!

I also successfully tailwhip KO'd two Falcos. It works guys! It really works!

That's all I have to say...

Sleep time Ness buddies.
 

NESSBOUNDER

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I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING!

Looking at Simna ibn Sind's last thing about PK thunder shooting you across the ground in the opposite direction thing, I realised a Thundertail trick that may work!

Say you've just juggled the last jump off your opponent, and they're coming down from above, but not directly above you. In front of you a bit. They're coming down, and you send out a PK thunder and whip them. You then bring the pk thunder in towards you as they fall and downwards a bit so it's going to pass just over the top of you, but hits them with the tail again.

JUST as the tail hits them, the PK thunder should already be passing over you, and BLAM, you hit Ness from behind with it using SImna ibn Sind's trick, and you are BLASTED FORWARDS into your opponent, who will be too close to the ground to execute any good aerials, and you get the ultra-high priority point-blank blast anyway.

This is only a theory, though. I need to experiment on it some more. I think PK thunder's turn may stuff this up for me, but hey! It could work.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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**** NESSBOUNDER...that tailwhipping combo is hilarious...and it sounds like it would work as long as the NME is in the right place and your timing is perfect...

lol...i can just imagine the person who was hit by that saying "OMG NO.....WTF NO....that's ****"


rofl....I'm gonna add VilNess' lag-cancelling maneuver and that tailwhipping combo that NESSBOUNDER just put up to the guide(including their respective credit).


before i do....VilNess and NESSBOUNDER....do you guys have any particular names you would like to give those techniques?


oh yeah...Dan....I'm glad you pulled off a tailwhip KO....its nice to hear: "It works guys! It really works!" lol

Here is another thing vs. link/samus that i should have said a while ago: If they are recovering from far away and get to the arena at a low level to use their grapple/hookshot, then tail or head them while they're down there....ez way to kill their recovery compeltely. As far as I can see Samus will die to this as long as it hits at the right time and Link will only survive if he pulls some of his bomb tricks out.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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SIND#745
Let's both work on that then^_^.

It may not work on some characters depeding on how fast they fall (or they are jiggly)...the fall speed may simply need to be compensated for to make it successful. The reverse pk thunder2 from the full-range post is already fairly difficult on its own. Your technique, NESSBOUNDER, may be among the harder ones to pull off, but it sounds extremely possible and oh so rich and creamy.^_^

After thinking about it....I came up with a reason why many of these(including the Thunder Swell Surprise) work. Not only is it because they are surprising, but even after the opponent expects it they still fall into it because of how RISKY these moves are. The fact that making a mistake could get your Ness killed attracts the NMEs towards you and thus falling into the trap.

So the risk of using these PK Thunder techniques is not simply a knife to Ness' throat...its a double-edged sword, and your hands are the only ones on the hilt.
 

VilNess

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Hmm didn´t we talk about this in HUB?
like the floorblast and thunderslide and such.

(btw. I just remembered I have pulled a double tailwhip and a reflex kick against a marth when I uaired him to air and started tricking him with thunder)
and btw. It´s funny the first post ever from me in SWF was about this subject.
Okay let´s talk about the name. I am thinking


Floorblast:
Direct the thunder to your head so you just tonk your head to ground and your eyes are crossed and now you are ready for a techroll/reflex kick/ stand up. note sometimes there might be a blast even though Ness will still be in lying position.

Aerial Floorblast:
Same as above but do it from air. HTe angle is about 90 degrees but it can slightly vary. Sometimes you end up being on ground so that you can´t reflex kick, only do the 1-2 punch recovery attack 8which is not as good since it even doesn´t go under the ledge), im not sure what causes this.




oh btw. There´s one stupid thing you can do in Pokemon stadium at the Firepart with the dead tree in it. Go to the left part of the stage and jump a bit and PK missile yourself towards the ramp of the tree. If you do this correctly you´ll slide with the tree to ground to grab the ledge. looks hella funny!
 

dan smith

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Lil' nuthin'

That tree trick sounds hilarious. .

I need to mess around with teching out of Floorblasts...

Flex kicks are unbelievably useful.

I need to play around with all of these things more...I need to play more.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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SIND#745
NESSBOUNDER: I'm in the process of testing Thunder Swell Surprise along with you. I have good news: It works on a lvl9 CP Samus. It took me a while to get the Samus to fall in the right spo(cause those stupid comps always like to fall away from you), but I got it to work...although I was to close to an edge and ended up suiciding but it still hit^_^.

More testing...
 

NESSBOUNDER

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Yep! I've gotten it to work with Pikachu, Mario, Sheik, Marth, DK, and many otheres. However, characters like Mario and Fox it shouldn't be done to, because they have reflectors.

But MAN! It's like...zip...zi-BLAU!! DEAD!!

Human players can also avoid punishment with a fast fall, but then they still take damage from PK thunder's head, and the Thunder Swell Surprise should only be attemped after a juggle, it works very well if you've just jump-headbutted someone and then immediately fire PK thunder.
 

VilNess

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I´m still a bit confused about this Thunder Swell suprise.
Simna you should edit the first post to have it cointain all useful material we have gathered ^_^
 

Simna ibn Sind

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SIND#745
Advanced section:

----UPDATE ALERT----

VilNess' Floorblast -- This technique utilizes the arena floor to stop PK Thunder2 and leave Ness in the prone position, cancelling the afterlag of PK Thunder. Because this leaves Ness in the prone position, he is free to roll, stand, or attack in place of his normal lag animation. The Floorblast is best put to use while edgeguarding with PK Thunder; a well placed Floorblast can make up for mistakes made elsewhere and save you from being punished. The Floorblast is also interchangable with the Reverse PK Thunder2(read: Full-Range PK2); this is good for quick changes in your game plan.

NESSBOUNDER's Thunder Swell Surprise -- This technique is an advanced combo that utilizes tailwhipping and the Reverse PK Thunder2. The Thunder Swell Surprise starts on an opponent high in the air that has expired its midair jump(Best used after a juggle). After the opponent is high enough, position Ness so the opponent falls not directly onto him, but slightly to either side. Once this position has been achieved use PK Thunder. Guide the opponent's descent with the tail of the PK Thunder. Tail the opponent once on the way up. Immediately afterwards turn the PK Thunder around and tail them once more on the way down. At this point the PK Thunder should be just slightly above Ness' head. Just as the second tail hits, drop the PK Thunder onto Ness for a tail+Reverse PK Thunder2 trap. At the point of the second tail hit the Reverse PK Thunder2 may be replaced with a Floorblast if the conditions are not to your liking(or if you are too close to a ledge^_^). Because of this technique's surprise factor AND because of its opponent-luring riskiness, players will often willingly fall into this trap in hopes of catching Ness in a mistake.
 

ender

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Hey simna, maybe you should make a video with all these techniques. That would be so cool.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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ender is funny...he posted that after he was making the recordings with me....

I have all of the recording done....all the video is on DVD....i just need to rip is....and ym ripper is really stupid....so i have to go thru a lot of trouble to get the vids on my comp.....then i need to edit and compress



then it goes onto SSBDC
 

VilNess

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Yeah good work Simna!
Be sure to tell us when you´ve finished the vid. so we can go get it!

Hey I just remembered a nice but pretty hard trick with floorblast.
This requires close to perfect aiming but if you master it you can become pretty lethal!

Ok 1st jump in air. Then start aiming the thunder so you let it go a bit neutrally up.
Next you start aiming the thunder (be it to left or right) so it starts spinning towards you in a "perfect circle", meaning youll guide it towards you after the letting it go a bit up as fast as possible.
Now if you did this correctly you have just succeeded in blasting yourself quite fast to ground after releasing PK thunder, AND in addition you will perform AERIAL FLOORBLAST! this is pretty hard since if your aiming is slightly off you will either
1: miss Ness and have a thunder spinning in air making Ness very vulnerable
2: Blast youself to ground but you will glide a nit in the ground because you angle wasn´t sharp enough to cancel the after lag.

I did this once against a lvl 9 Marth. I hit him with FastAerialFloorblast and I was quick back on my toes!
The computer crowd went absolutely Insane! They yelled like: NESS! NESS! NESS! very loud for like about a minute when normally they just mutter the Ness Ness Ness for about 10 seconds :D

Note that aerial floorblast is easier if you start guiding it first left before guiding it right or vice versa but the way I described it upper is the fastest way to do it. And tailwhipping isn´t out of question either.
 

Jesi

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JessNess

Yeah, I came because Dan Smith told me he posted so much on these boards it was embarrassing. Indeed, I would be embarrassed if I were him too, but probably for more reasons than just posting a lot...

But after reading this stunning display of ingenuity through playing ness, I must say, I simply must pick him up.

YEAH, STARMAN!

:starman:
 

VilNess

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Heh, I have kinda posted much too but I post most of the time when I´m in school and have already finished my notes and I have couple of minutes of free time before starting to write another memo...
That, and In home in evenings.
Well our Ness board is so lively it´s nice to post here :)
Nice to have you in SilentJupiter! Be sure to post in Ness Finder thread, because it´s TEH best thread! YAY!

HappyNess!
 

Jesi

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JessNess Retired.

I digress, I regret to inform you my grand albeit short career as a Ness player has ended.

I shall be continuing my training with Falco.

Sincerely yours,

YO'MAMA! :p
 

VilNess

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Blah :p I didn´t know silentjupiter was Jesi...
off course she won´t play Ness when she can play with snex.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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SIND#745
The video is now completed! The file name is "Simna ibn Sind's Guide to PK Thunder NTSC"

It contains every technique in this thread except for PK Thunder Reverse Edgeguard and Pray(These will be in the next guide video). It contains special bonus features of the yoyo glitch.

Look for it on SSBDC!
 

ender

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I just saw the vid and it is freaking awesome. I love the yoyo section. Hilarious. He kills DK with all these different attacks from hella far away like bair and baseball bat, and he even attacks with taunt I think. Anyway, you had a great supporting cast simna. Good work
 

VilNess

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Yes I saw it too!
This was definetly excellent work Simna! *gives a pack of cookies and beer*

I really liked those barriers against shine... too bad it doesn´t work in PAL :(
Yeah Ness attacks with a taunt, just like luigi except cooler :p
that was though taunting when the DK walked to the trap but cool anyway!

Thunder swell was nice too and I have actually pulled it off couple of times in real matches though I didn´t know that was called thunder swell suprise.

And big thanks for the credits too :) I think I´m gonna go watch this again!

AGAIN: GOOD WORK SIMNA AT LEAST YOURE TOP IF ANYTHING :)
 

dan smith

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Hulk MAD!

I have seen many variations of PK Missile and the Yo-yo glitch.

But...I still really want to see this vid.

I wish my computer would work!

ANGER!
 

Who Am I???

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GOD I WISH I DIDN'T HAVE DIAL UP!!!!!

**** my parents for being cheap. Could you host it on Limewire? I have that and I could leave it on for an hour or something.

I must see this.
 

dan smith

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Loner...

I might be able to send it to you over AIM...or is that too slow?

I don't have Limewire but I could download it...

It sucks not being able to watch the vid when everybody else has seen it. Being out of the loop.
 

LonelyNess

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lol yeah you should put up at site for those of us without dc++

it'd be cool to see all that

sounds awesome!

wait or maybe if someone had time they could send it to me over aim or yahoo or something?
 

VilNess

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I´ll suggest if my bro has free-memory in his homepage about SSBM so he might be able to host it there?
I´ll need to ask him. Yeah it sucks for not being able to watch the vid.
Btw. Simna why do you do the yoyo-glitch with the weak part of the yoyo? It seems Me and NESSBOUNDER do it with the first-hit strong part and let it charge so the yoyo-will will leave the trap...
 

dan smith

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The vid seems to be fullfilling a very important roll.

I am so jealous of Simna's vid making SKILLZ. I now have a way of recording vids though! I should have those done in a few...years... :chuckle:

I love Smash.

Enjoy fiddling with the glitch Cape!
 

Varuna

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Saw the video... was amazed... this HAS to have some kind of use... it can be done faster that links super jump.
 
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