Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
when samus CANT kill and ICs need one grab a stock.....theres no way its 50-50.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Out of order, new matchup thread coming soon!
- Thread starter Sesshomuronay
- Start date
- Status
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Wolf is actually a beast on rainbow cruise. Only characters who have advantage on rc over wolf is d3, mk, rob, and dk. Wolf can jump around the stage and just laser from afar. I take kirbys here. LOL. Kirby may be good in close range on wolf. But kirby doesn't have too many approach options on this stage when wolf is spamming laser at a distance.
And my new seagull avatar is so cute.
And my new seagull avatar is so cute.
Actually RC is one of my favourite CP stages against D3. You can time him out really well on that stage.
BIGM1994
Smash Champion
naw, check it again, most of them are worse, mayyyybe some are betterwtf Wolf isn't that bad at RC. It's just that many of Wolfs bad match-ups are good at this stage so most Wolf players avoid it. It's a legit CP against Marth though Marth blows @RC a lot more than Wolf does.
Wolf has Halberd and RC as CP stages and IMO also Delphino and Yoshi's because Wolf ***** on those stages.
BigM, you don't make sense you're like "you guys completely overrate Wolf" and then your match-up numbers vary only very slighly and in some cases are actually HIGHER then most Wolf players think lol
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
You can also get killed by throws. Wall infinited on the boat. And glitched when cg'd up on the level. This is not good to take d3s to.Actually RC is one of my favourite CP stages against D3. You can time him out really well on that stage.
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
I added marth stuff. One last thing before we move on, stage bans.
Xzax Kasrani
Smash Master
Ok, for marth I forgot to put an input XD
Try to bait his dancing blade a lot....its a really good move and it combos you if you are knocked onto the ground at low percents. When you see marth jump try JShining. Bairing his fair his risky aswell. SH air dodges work well to get behind Marth and abuse him. Both Wolf and Marth have bad landing lag so try to abuse his when you see it coming. Shoot a lot of lazers and dthrow at the ledges at around 120-130% and more should kill him depending the stage.
Recommended Bans:
Lylat Cruise, Rainbow Cruise, PS1
Recommended CP's:
SV, BF, Delfino, Halberd
Try to bait his dancing blade a lot....its a really good move and it combos you if you are knocked onto the ground at low percents. When you see marth jump try JShining. Bairing his fair his risky aswell. SH air dodges work well to get behind Marth and abuse him. Both Wolf and Marth have bad landing lag so try to abuse his when you see it coming. Shoot a lot of lazers and dthrow at the ledges at around 120-130% and more should kill him depending the stage.
Recommended Bans:
Lylat Cruise, Rainbow Cruise, PS1
Recommended CP's:
SV, BF, Delfino, Halberd
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
I dunno man, I've had some pretty bad luck on pokemon stadium 1.
So should I put rainbow cruise down for a ban or cp or neither? Some people said it might be good.
So should I put rainbow cruise down for a ban or cp or neither? Some people said it might be good.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Most top level marths do lots of full hop zoning, so mix up full hop double bairs, double jump bairs, jumpshines, and the occasional Dacus.
Lazers are good in the matchup if they are in the air.
Lazers are good in the matchup if they are in the air.
I thought Marth ***** people with tippers on the platforms at BF...
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Its ok but I dunno about that low ceiling.
Xzax Kasrani
Smash Master
I agree especially versus DeDeDe
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
Norfair is good for quite a couple characters, like Toon Link and Link. Apparently it's good for Snake.
The fact that CGing doesn't really work makes it good for a lot of characters, so I wouldn't say it's unique to him. However, his aerial game is good and he suffers from CGs immensely, so this stage really helps him out. I go to this stage often.
The fact that CGing doesn't really work makes it good for a lot of characters, so I wouldn't say it's unique to him. However, his aerial game is good and he suffers from CGs immensely, so this stage really helps him out. I go to this stage often.
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
next is game and watch
Arrows
Smash Journeyman
Run away and blaster his bair, its better than sheilding.
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
I find that if he gets you with the turtle try to di up and then shine.
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
Sess, I noticed that the MU ratings are inconsistent with format. Most say bigger#:smaller# X's advantage, but Falco has the lesser number beforehand. I would recommend you just simplify each rating to our#:their#. Makes for less typing and more simplicity.
For GnW, I'll just list a couple fun facts for some of you to go off of.
•Counterpick to Yoshi's Island. His jump gets cancelled on the right side.
•He has invincibility frames on half the UpB, so don't try gimping him, you'll just be gimped yourself.
•He has more range than you, and when you camp with laser, he gets the oil spill. He can also continually cancel your blaster, so don't try and fill it up and then camp, because it won't work.
•His smashes are deadly, especially the fsmash. It lingers, so don't spotdodge.
•WOLF CAN TECH THE DTHROW! LEARN HOW TO! When you do, he can't follow up as well. He will usually let you roll, dash and then upsmash you. It's deadly.
•When you're being dthrowed, DI to his back and then tech it. Best way to do it (he can legitimately combo you with the dtilt afterwards.
•DTHROW > DSMASH is NOT a combo. Don't fall into it. Do what I said above. If you can't tech it for whatever reason, just fall and roll behind him.
•Do not approach him from below, his dair has ghey priority.
•Make sure you shield his bair all the way.
•Uair blows you upward. I don't really know what to say but to keep moving until you get down.
•His fair lags, punish him.
•Always DI the rapid A attack.
This MU is 40:60 for us, no questions asked.
EDIT: You can get away with blastering him, but don't form some kind of habit, or he will bucket it.
For GnW, I'll just list a couple fun facts for some of you to go off of.
•Counterpick to Yoshi's Island. His jump gets cancelled on the right side.
•He has invincibility frames on half the UpB, so don't try gimping him, you'll just be gimped yourself.
•He has more range than you, and when you camp with laser, he gets the oil spill. He can also continually cancel your blaster, so don't try and fill it up and then camp, because it won't work.
•His smashes are deadly, especially the fsmash. It lingers, so don't spotdodge.
•WOLF CAN TECH THE DTHROW! LEARN HOW TO! When you do, he can't follow up as well. He will usually let you roll, dash and then upsmash you. It's deadly.
•When you're being dthrowed, DI to his back and then tech it. Best way to do it (he can legitimately combo you with the dtilt afterwards.
•DTHROW > DSMASH is NOT a combo. Don't fall into it. Do what I said above. If you can't tech it for whatever reason, just fall and roll behind him.
•Do not approach him from below, his dair has ghey priority.
•Make sure you shield his bair all the way.
•Uair blows you upward. I don't really know what to say but to keep moving until you get down.
•His fair lags, punish him.
•Always DI the rapid A attack.
This MU is 40:60 for us, no questions asked.
EDIT: You can get away with blastering him, but don't form some kind of habit, or he will bucket it.
You mean 60-40 in favor of Wolf?
You can DI the Turtle and punish it with a Bair. None of GnW's Smashes are fast enough to land unless Wolf makes a mistake. So GnW is going to kill with Uair/Fair at 150 and up...Whereas Wolf has setups for Dsmash, and Usmash OoS. Where does GnW have any advantage besides recovery?
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Uh ok, I changed something.
Another thing is if he keeps randomly turtling just take a few step back and punish with f-smash or blaster. But if you time the f-smash wrong tho you'll just ram into his turtle or get punished yourself.
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
No, the forty is ours.
Wolf can barely use his blaster safely. Bair wall is less practical consider GnW has range on us with bair.
GnW has range, tons of priority and other small advantages, like the recovery. A better recovery also means an easier time with gimping us, which his bair and fair can do. Also, his nair can combo (though I don't know that much about the specifics).
I've played quite a couple GnWs, and if they know what they're doing, it'll be a difficult match. I can see the MU being 45:55, but not even or advantageous.
And I bet he can follow up from that last bit of the turtle.
Again, don't start a habit with the blaster, make it unpredictable.
EDIT: Sess, you changed Falco from 45:55 to 40:60! lol... I think. Wasn't it?
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
...wait it was? Dang I forget.
PentaSalia
Smash Master
*randomly drops in*
as i said in G&W boards
ima say this match up is 60:40 G&W's favor
G&W can very easily pressure/gimp wolf offstage with weak fairs or nairs
Even bacon is good here lol
In the air G&W can still very easily rack up dmg on wolf if he isn't careful
though ironically i've had more trouble with wolf on stages like BF,because wolf would hide under the ledges and stuff;/ but maybe that's just me.
Wolfy only has his bair and blaster to keep him on the groundz
and even then,his blaster is pretty unreliable here
as i said in G&W boards
ima say this match up is 60:40 G&W's favor
G&W can very easily pressure/gimp wolf offstage with weak fairs or nairs
Even bacon is good here lol
In the air G&W can still very easily rack up dmg on wolf if he isn't careful
though ironically i've had more trouble with wolf on stages like BF,because wolf would hide under the ledges and stuff;/ but maybe that's just me.
Wolfy only has his bair and blaster to keep him on the groundz
and even then,his blaster is pretty unreliable here
This match-up is NOT in G&Ws favour. G&W doesn't beat any of the space animals JFYI.
This match-up is dead even if played right. You have answer to EVERYTHING G&W does.
If he turtles: You can beat it/trade hits with bair/fair. Or you shield the regular hits, Powershield the landing hitbox and then proceed to **** him. If you can consistently deal with the turtle then you can camp in your shield as long as you want...just don't spotdodge against him because G&W ***** them. G&W can't ever kill you with his throws because his dthrow -> dsmash is techable and all other throws are weak. Plus his grab is crap.
I'm sure that JJ knows more about the match-up than I do but I can guarantee that G&W doesn't have the advantage.
This match-up is dead even if played right. You have answer to EVERYTHING G&W does.
If he turtles: You can beat it/trade hits with bair/fair. Or you shield the regular hits, Powershield the landing hitbox and then proceed to **** him. If you can consistently deal with the turtle then you can camp in your shield as long as you want...just don't spotdodge against him because G&W ***** them. G&W can't ever kill you with his throws because his dthrow -> dsmash is techable and all other throws are weak. Plus his grab is crap.
I'm sure that JJ knows more about the match-up than I do but I can guarantee that G&W doesn't have the advantage.
The matchup isn't bad. Patience is a virtue in this matchup. You have to play slow and controlled, only reacting to G&W after he reacts to you first. If you aggro a good G&W you will get owned. Especially when they're on the platform above you and you go crazy with bairs and uairs they'll beat you from above. What you want to do is shark and walk slowly and cautiously and react only when the G&W messes up for the most part on the ground. You don't want to use uair, maybe fair occasionally but never go too crazy in the air beat him patiently and slowly on the ground.
I'd say it's about even. Other people said most of it, but I believe you can punish GW's dair if your reaction time is good enough OoS. Also, I might've been hallucinating, but I've had uair/utilt go through his dair, and you can always jumpshine. So I guess the only thing I have to bring up is that I don't think trying to approach him from below is as bad of an idea as everyone else is making it seem.
Shine has minimum 4 frame advantage, airdodges have minimum 2 frame startup (iirc...), and bair hits on frame 6. Jumpshine > bair should be guaranteed :O
And I really don't know wtf is up with utilt lol, that move is just plain weird. Getting combod by GW's nair sucks though
And I really don't know wtf is up with utilt lol, that move is just plain weird. Getting combod by GW's nair sucks though
yeah its like 50%Getting combod by GW's nair sucks though
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
Teching the throw is much more effective, and easy.
I'm changing my MU for this to 45:55, GnW's favor. I think that this is definitely a possible MU, but we have to think more than we normally would. Using blaster is less effective than usual, and GnW has tricks that we should really know about. He has more range and multi-hit moves as well. I think he has a very small advantage, but still, this MU is far from disadvantageous. It's very doable, and the better player will win.
Depends on the G&W I guess. The one I played was very smart and could read me no matter where I teched.
I've played extremely good G&Ws (i.e. Needle of Juntah) and one thing that defeats them is patience. One could argue that Brawl is patience, but this matchup in particular I think in the end will be 55 45 Wolf. Maybe not for a year or whatever as the metagame continues to develop but I think Wolf takes the cake, barely in 1 v 1. Blasters are bad yeah but the occasional blaster, using it rarely, can rack up dmg over a long period of time. G&W is overrated he's one of the most predictable characters IMO, Diddy and others are way harder. On the ground a smart Wolf should win, just don't try to pwn him in the air.
That's my input anyway, I can see why many people think G&W has the favor in this though.
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
lol What the hell? GnW can actually get to someone who techs the Dthrow? I mean, when actually teching and rolling away from GnW?
Hm... So you really think that Wolf has better tools than GnW does? While it's easy to see that with patience, you can beat your opponent, but take a look at a perfectly playing GnW and a perfectly playing Wolf. Does Wolf really have better tools than GnW does? I would think with his better moves, like dsmash and such, he would have a lead, even if slight.
My bad. I meant rolling. You know how after dthrow you're literally on the ground and you roll away to get up. I didn't realize you could tech that it's been a while lol.
Define perfect. A perfectly playing G&W would be someone who turtles perfectly without taking a necessary risk. Same with the Wolf, minus the bair wall, etc. Only Wolf would have the rare occasional mindgame blaster to rack up small damage if the match were to go like that. Again, that's an extreme hypothetical example. The best G&Ws are the ones that are extremely passive and stay in their turtle.
How is G&W dsmash better? It has little range compared to Wolf's, and Wolf if the dsmash spaced properly doesn't even get punished for it.
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
haha It's fine. But yeah, tech and roll behind the GnW. I don't know frame advantages, but I'm sure you can jump/run away.
Well, most of my problem with this MU is approaching with aerials when GnW has that turtle. And when I mean playing perfectly, I'm prompting you to take out any possible error on either side, like patience, and instead just say who has the MU easier. I would imagine GnW would have to think less than the Wolf would have to, which is why I say GnW has an advantage, only slightly, mind you.
Well, I was going to say his dsmash is scary, having IASA frames and a lot of power. Shouldn't have said better, but I see Wolf getting caught by moves like these easier than the GnW would be in Wolf's moves.
I was going to say dair was a problem, but apparently we can utilt it. I still don't understand that.
I don't see how dair is a problem when knowledge of the matchup means you don't challenge G&W's aerials. The ability to utilt has got to require some solid timing, if someone can do it that's awesome but I much prefer not to bother challenging G&W aerial wise. G&W's aerial game just pwnz Wolfz.
MidnightAsaph
Smash Lord
Which is a reason why I'm much softer on this MU, because it's annoying to play him, but it's also easy if you're taking it slowly and shield all the aerials/multi-hit moves.
And yes, I'd rather not challenge the dair. You have to know when to grab the dair though, because it has more than just one simple hitbox.
So, I think we've talked about the MU well enough. I'm good with 50:50 if everyone else is.
EDIT: counterpicks? I'd actually take GnW to Lylat, but that's me, I don't usually have problems with Lylat, I'm careful enough. Yoshi's Island is a good cp because his jump gets messed up on the right side.
And yes, I'd rather not challenge the dair. You have to know when to grab the dair though, because it has more than just one simple hitbox.
So, I think we've talked about the MU well enough. I'm good with 50:50 if everyone else is.
EDIT: counterpicks? I'd actually take GnW to Lylat, but that's me, I don't usually have problems with Lylat, I'm careful enough. Yoshi's Island is a good cp because his jump gets messed up on the right side.
- Status