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Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

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A1lion835

A1lion835

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Pink murder said:
☠
I'm cool with D3.... Can we start posting now, or should I wait until its official?
☠

●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure D3 discussed around 7/25/09, didn't they? *shrugs*

The Dedede boards have been alerted (in 2 threads, none the less! Yea, I posted in the wrong one first).
I can haz 1700 posts?
Commence thine posting.
 
o-Serin-o

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Haha. Balls wanna discuss the discussion with the penguin? Lol sure.

Offense

We will give you the advantage of being offensive because all we want is a shieldgrab. You guys have the second best Bair (behind ours ::p) and that gives you guys a good approach method. If you wanna go for the grab at low percents, try to be conspiquous with it. Taking the dash > roll > grab or RAR Bair > Grab every time is going to get you eating a dtilt or a ftilt, and that's just more spacing for us.

Overall: You guys have better a better offensive game.

Ground Game

Basically, we win this. We have our ftilt, dtilt, and grab. Come from behind and you get a bair to the top of the scalp(forhead?) and a quick 13%. You guys have a good grab game as well, but it tends to get repetitive (more than ours ß3.) Fthrow > uair > regrab (which most of us will jump out of) at low percents, and dthrow at any other percent.

Air Game

Almost even. It's best bair vs best bair. Our Fair beats your fair, so just stick to bairs no matter what.





Overall: 55:45 D3

ß3 And that concludes the way I look at the Kirby matchup.
 
G

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Serin basically said everything.

I think Kirby's best stage in this matchup would be either Japes or Pictochat. However, the sexual nature of those stages are dubious at best and they are likely to be banned in many places, so barring those I would probably suggest Battlefield for Kirby.
 
A1lion835

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Gates said:
Serin basically said everything.

I think Kirby's best stage in this matchup would be either Japes or Pictochat. However, the sexual nature of those stages are dubious at best and they are likely to be banned in many places, so barring those I would probably suggest Battlefield for Kirby.
Click to expand...

How about RC, PS1 and Brinstar? RC is a pretty default Kirby CP, Brinstar is viewed by some (Asdioh and myself, for one) as an awesome Kirby CP vs some chars, and PS1 is a pretty **** Kirby stage. Yes, I know nothing about this matchup.

Here are some things that would be helpful if discussed:

1. What should each side be watching out for? Be doing? Not be doing?

2. Stages. Which are good, which are bad?

3. What are some common errors each side will be making that they shouldn't be? For example, D3 should never try to attack Kirby out of a Kirby dthrow. Kirbies expect this and will shieldgrab you for another dthrow.

4. If anyone feels like writing up a pros&cons list, it would be awesome.

Saying what neutrals are best for each side and why earns you a bottle of steak sauce.

On the topic of d3's power: don't take it.

1. You deal him 6% by swallowing and 10% by spitting.

2. They're almost the exact same thing. D3's just has longer range.

3. You have a guaranteed footstool on D3 if he breaks out in midair unless he upb's. D3's inhale automatically spits after a set amount of time, so no footstool.

Interesting fact: Kirby's inhale beats D3's inhale. Kirby with d3's inhale also beats d3's inhale.
 
Pink murder

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☠
Doesn't our Kirbycide give us a guaranteed footstool if D3 breaks free? That should help our game a lot.

Personally, I do well against heavy characters. They seem to fall into my tilts/aerial combos seamlessly.
Not to mention that our tilts and aerials own D3's shield.

D3's waddle dee's/doo's won't do much to us either. We can simply jump above them and/or shield -> Grab if we're close enough.


☠

●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●
 
o-Serin-o

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FD = Us
BF = Kirby
SV = Us
YI = Either

RC = Us
Brinstar = You
PS1 = Holy **** us.



About the footstool shinanigan, **** that, we just take the blow.







Also, I forgot to mention killing.

For D3:

Utilt
Dsmash
Fair (fresh)
Bair (fresh)

For Kirby

Hammer
Fsmash.



That is all.
 
9Kplus1

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Poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke grab poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke shield poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke UTILT DSMASH.

^This is how I play Kirby.

Though, I can agree to 50-50 for the reasons mentioned.

D3's waddle dee's/doo's won't do much to us either. We can simply jump above them and/or shield -> Grab if we're close enough.
Click to expand...
Everyone can do this >_>.
 
A1lion835

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o-Serin-o said:
FD = Us
BF = Kirby
SV = Us
YI = Either
Click to expand...
Why? :p

o-Serin-o said:
RC = Us
Brinstar = You
PS1 = Holy **** us.
Click to expand...
Why? :p

Also, is "Holy **** us" as in "Holy ****, we pwn you" or "Oh god, we get ****ed here"? It's hard to tell without hearing you say it.



o-Serin=o said:
About the footstool shinanigan, **** that, we just take the blow.
Click to expand...
This would sort of work, if Kirby's footstool didn't guarantee a dair and Kirby's dair didn't guarantee a footstool. Should've mentioned that.


o-Serin=o said:
Also, I forgot to mention killing.

For D3:

Utilt
Dsmash
Fair (fresh)
Bair (fresh)

For Kirby

Hammer
Fsmash.
Click to expand...
I don't know much about d3, but fsmash is Kirby's main killer, hammer is too laggy to reliably kill and bair is a pretty good killer if it's fresh (which it usually isn't, as it's kirby's staple everything).

OH! I forgot. I think inhaling you out of your upb and letting you break out doesn't give you your upb or jumps back. Not sure about it though.
 
o-Serin-o

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FD = Flat land, we are fat, we live forever. And all the free room makes room for camping with waddles.

SV = See above, but with a moving platform with a chance to dthrow > dtilt on platform.

BF = More platforms, more juggles for you. 'Nuff said.

YI = Tilted land, better move for you to move around and the ability to duck under some of our moves and dtilt us.

RC = Sure you have a wall infinite, but that is what SDI is for. At the top of the Rainbow (lol) is a low ceiling which means utilt and dsmash kills at lower percents.

Brinstar = We hate lava.

PS1 = Stage change benefits, more dthrow shenanigans, and an easier time to kill with utilt thanks to multiple platforms that actually benefit us.



@Footstool - We won't break out, period.
 
A1lion835

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o-Serin-o said:
FD = Flat land, we are fat, we live forever. And all the free room makes room for camping with waddles.

SV = See above, but with a moving platform with a chance to dthrow > dtilt on platform.

BF = More platforms, more juggles for you. 'Nuff said.

YI = Tilted land, better move for you to move around and the ability to duck under some of our moves and dtilt us.

RC = Sure you have a wall infinite, but that is what SDI is for. At the top of the Rainbow (lol) is a low ceiling which means utilt and dsmash kills at lower percents.

Brinstar = We hate lava.

PS1 = Stage change benefits, more dthrow shenanigans, and an easier time to kill with utilt thanks to multiple platforms that actually benefit us.
Click to expand...
All of this sounds good. Nice.

o-Serin-o said:
@Footstool - We won't break out, period.
Click to expand...
You have to break out at some point. Basically, we wait for a little bit after inhaling you and time it so that you'll break out at some point while offstage, then footstool and gimp and stuff.
 
Jester Kirby

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I agree with him, I think 45-55 is a good ratio, DDD is hard to approach and once we get in there it;s hard to stay there since he can shield grab so well. It's a very winnable matchup though.
 
Lord Viper

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☆ If he plays gay the whole match while your trying to approch him. I mostly agree with his sayings, just not the ratio. ☆
 
AnDaLe

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o-Serin-o said:
FD = Us
BF = Kirby
SV = Us
YI = Either

RC = Us
Brinstar = You
PS1 = Holy **** us.



About the footstool shinanigan, **** that, we just take the blow.







Also, I forgot to mention killing.

For D3:

Utilt
Dsmash
Fair (fresh)
Bair (fresh)

For Kirby

Hammer
Fsmash.



That is all.
Click to expand...
shananigans.
 
jiovanni007

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Okay since I asked for this topic I feel I should make a substantial post. I honestly believe this match is 40:60 D3. The odds are just not in our favor and we have to be very careful when fighting him. First and foremost I wanna talk about killing. He kills us from ~90%. We kill him from ~130%. Second no bull**** about "we rack damage way faster than he can" which is true in a lot of our matches, but not this one. SDI beats a second regrab in our throw combo. If we get grabbed, we take 14~17%. 6 grabs and we're in kill range....that's not fun when you consider how many grabs we get in a match and his grab range dwarfs our brokedick grab. D3 also has more kill options than we do. utilt has REDICULOUS priority and can go through Shopped approaches. Though we can't be caught in the Dsmash trap as often as other bouncers, its still a very viable kill move and needs to be accounted for. Bair offstage WoPs (not like ours which is a FoP) at certain percents and beats the startup on inhale. His kill moves are also much more practical than ours. Once D3 gets to kill range, he can just turtle and shieldgrab us instead of dieing. AD frametraps are the only reliable way to hit D3 with fsmash.

In the air, D3 beats us plain and simple. From the front we're at the advantage if we're close due to the slight startup on D3's fair, but otherwise we fail. Don't try to hit it from the back cuz D3 doesn't do prison **** and will always beat us out there as well. When we're above he beats us unless we stone which may present some problems if he feints and we need to cancel. When he's above he dairs which also beats everything. Uair and dair are also shorter than you may think so if he whiffs your only option would to be to try to move to his front and hit him there. His anti air game is also sick. As previously mentioned his utilt can beat out Shopped aerials with proper timing. Spacing has to literally be ~85% perfect or we get grabbed and bthrow'd. Bthrow is gay and all D3 mains know its gay ( no offense to gay ppl). Ftilt has incredible range and can sometimes shut us down before we can get in the air.

Kirby shouldn't be on the ground in this match unless he's confident that he can get a frametrap on D3. Dtilt in emergencies if you're close enough, I'm pretty sure it gets out before D3's grab and then we can retreat after hitting him 2 or 3 times with it. Utilt if the emergency has your back to D3.

As far as stages go, I definitely avoid PS1 and RC. In PS1 you simply don't have enough room to get away due to the stage changing. He can "gimp" us on RC with an utilt on the upper part. Plus he sharks very well disjointed hitboxes. I would say BF and FD are even. BF has platforms that we can maneuver with and FD is large so we can play hit and run with you all day long. I love brinstar against D3, short wall so he doesn't live as long as normal, upper platform for uthrow kills, lava for extra damage/keeping you on the move, and platforms for running. Can't speak on PS2 since we have a more conservative stage list where I play.

All in all this match is winnable as long as you don't go in thinking ZOMG HE'Z BIG I CAN UTILT AND THROW COMBO AND **** HIM IN THE AIR!!! This match has to be played carefully for Kirby to win. Even by playing carefully D3 still has more options which is why Kirby is at the disadvantage. Its not so tough that you have to CP, but expect an uphill battle.

40:60

edit: If you get the opportunity to take D3's power than do it. Need info from D3 boards on this one but doesn't it have a faster startup and casue the "tumble" animation quicker?
 
Jester Kirby

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KO options are really about even. You should see the uptilt comming whenever he wants to use it. Most DDDs are going to grab you first if you're approaching forward anyway. His d=smash is dangeroous b/c we have to stay so close. I tend to approach with d-air alot. Land behind him though so he can;t grab, you can then up-tilt blah blah blah. Avoid his back air )I'll explain in a second) and you're a pretty hard target for DDD to KO. Unfortunatly Kirby can't really get in any KO's either, not easily anyway. Kirby vs DDD are some long matches.

If you get a grab, down throw him at 0%. and high percents. F-throw is viable around 16% or so, b/c you can follow up with chaining f-airs.

In the air, approaching from the front is hard, b/c his f-air has alots of range...from behind you're not going to beat out his back air. You need to beat back his aerials from above or below. Be ready to DI out of any spinning hammer that hits you. As for his WOP, you should't have any trouble avoiding his edgeguard. DDD is so slow and he's not going to chase you far offstage unless he's got you in a f-air chain. Be sure to recover as high as you can, DDD as so much trouble punishing this. Then, mind game him on where you're going to land and voila, hello stage.

As for stages, avoid BF or anything else with lots of platforms. FD is good but he will camp waddle dees, so if you can;t get through that strike it as well.

Takeing his ability, yes it has more priority and range...I think it has less startup but more cool down or something....I'd suggest getting it b/c Kirb'y inhale just doesn;t have the range to compete with DDD's attacks.
 
Lord Viper

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jiovanni007 said:
As far as stages go, I definitely avoid PS1 and RC. In PS1 you simply don't have enough room to get away due to the stage changing. He can "gimp" us on RC with an utilt on the upper part. Plus he sharks very well disjointed hitboxes. I would say BF and FD are even. BF has platforms that we can maneuver with and FD is large so we can play hit and run with you all day long. I love brinstar against D3, short wall so he doesn't live as long as normal, upper platform for uthrow kills, lava for extra damage/keeping you on the move, and platforms for running. Can't speak on PS2 since we have a more conservative stage list where I play.
Click to expand...
☆ As for Pokemon Stadium, the transformations are more in Kirby's side than the Kings, of course I speak that out of a long experiences with Pokemon Stadium. Only field that's not so much as an advantage is the Fire Field, anything else it's not looking too well for the King on that stage. Your right about not choosing Rainbow Cruise. I haven't really tried Pokemon Stadium 2 due to that stage being banned on most tourney's I go to. Also you should never go to Brinstar with King Dedede. >.< ☆

Jester Kirby said:
As for stages, avoid BF or anything else with lots of platforms. FD is good but he will camp waddle dees, so if you can;t get through that strike it as well.
Click to expand...
☆ Battlefield is one of King Dedede's worst stages and would be bad luck if they fought Kirby there, why would you avoid going there? His air game is limited there, and sharking him is just too much fun. =P ☆

☆ I'll say Jungle Japes is the best stage to take King Dedede. I haven't really tried Final Destination in a while with the King so I don't know about that. ☆
 
jiovanni007

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Jester Kirby said:
KO options are really about even. You should see the uptilt comming whenever he wants to use it. Most DDDs are going to grab you first if you're approaching forward anyway. His d=smash is dangeroous b/c we have to stay so close. I tend to approach with d-air alot. Land behind him though so he can;t grab, you can then up-tilt blah blah blah. Avoid his back air )I'll explain in a second) and you're a pretty hard target for DDD to KO. Unfortunatly Kirby can't really get in any KO's either, not easily anyway. Kirby vs DDD are some long matches.

If you get a grab, down throw him at 0%. and high percents. F-throw is viable around 16% or so, b/c you can follow up with chaining f-airs.

In the air, approaching from the front is hard, b/c his f-air has alots of range...from behind you're not going to beat out his back air. You need to beat back his aerials from above or below. Be ready to DI out of any spinning hammer that hits you. As for his WOP, you should't have any trouble avoiding his edgeguard. DDD is so slow and he's not going to chase you far offstage unless he's got you in a f-air chain. Be sure to recover as high as you can, DDD as so much trouble punishing this. Then, mind game him on where you're going to land and voila, hello stage.

As for stages, avoid BF or anything else with lots of platforms. FD is good but he will camp waddle dees, so if you can;t get through that strike it as well.

Takeing his ability, yes it has more priority and range...I think it has less startup but more cool down or something....I'd suggest getting it b/c Kirb'y inhale just doesn;t have the range to compete with DDD's attacks.
Click to expand...
Approaching with dair is begging for an utilt, its really not that easy to read. If ur higher than he can use usmash to feint the AD and still get the kill. But when I say attack from the front in the air I only meant when ur close. His fair has a greater range, but a startup time that can be beaten by our bair or fair if we don't have to move closer to hit him.

D3's edgeguard is easy to avoid, but I prefer not to get overzealous and attempt kirbycides since his bair is quick enough to beat inhale.

★Viper said:
☆ As for Pokemon Stadium, the transformations are more in Kirby's side than the Kings, of course I speak that out of a long experiences with Pokemon Stadium. Only field that's not so much as an advantage is the Fire Field, anything else it's not looking too well for the King on that stage. Your right about not choosing Rainbow Cruise. I haven't really tried Pokemon Stadium 2 due to that stage being banned on most tourney's I go to. Also you should never go to Brinstar with King Dedede. >.< ☆



☆ Battlefield is one of King Dedede's worst stages and would be bad luck if they fought Kirby there, why would you avoid going there? His air game is limited there, and sharking him is just too much fun. =P ☆

☆ I'll say Jungle Japes is the best stage to take King Dedede. I haven't really tried Final Destination in a while with the King so I don't know about that. ☆
Click to expand...
Japes isn't legal everywhere.
 
rPSIvysaur

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Hello Kirby boards, the Lucas boards is now discussing their MU with Kirby. Your input is needed. Here is the :link2:. Thanks
 
GreyClover

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Doesn't Kirby always beat DDD, 100-0.

Anyways on to DDD. DDD's best moves against you is his Utilt, Bair, grabs, Ftilt, and Fsmash. The Utilt is so powerful it can kill you just as well as his smashes, it has great range that only Snake's Utilt is better, and it does a good job at low percens to start up juggling combos. His Bair is his aerial ace, absolutely great range and speed, good spacing, and moderate killing potential. DDD's grab range is huge and not to mention his throws are like the best in the game. DDDs are not likely going to be using Dthrows since we're not able to be chain grabed for obvious reasons, expect Bthrows to used mostly. Bthrows are very much the same as Ness's because of it's power and damage. Then there's the Ftilt which does a good job at stopping our approaches. Now finally the Fsmash, not too hard to aviod but it's the range and power that is scary. On Kirby a fresh uncharged Fsmash kills at like ****ing 38%.

On Kirby's side we can also do a lot of things that work well in the match-up. First there's our grabs, due to DDD's wieght early grab combos like with our Dthrow or Fthrow is sweet candy. Now lets move on to our Bair. Kirby's Bair is not as good as DDD's with the exception of ending lag but it does beat DDD's Fair in speed and range. Not saying that spamming Bair isn't good anymore but that you shouldn't try for a Bair when you're behind DDD's back. Then there's Kirby's tilts which is good because of it's speed and DDD doesn't have many moves to counter with. Our Fsmash is also good but it's not as good as DDD's in range and power without a doubt.

Basically in the match-up you want to stay as close to him as possible because of our tilts and since if you play DDD mid range you will get beat to death. At early percents always grab combo him to take DDD offstage where you can punish more with edgeguarding tools. Also don't ever try to go up against his vertical aerials, just like fighting mid range you with get beat. Remember to save at least one kill move so it'll be fresh to kill easier because DDD's wieght and recovery make him one of the hardest characters in the game to KO.

Overall I'd say 60-40 tops.
 
Jester Kirby

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RocketPSIence said:
Hello Kirby boards, the Lucas boards is now discussing their MU with Kirby. Your input is needed. Here is the :link2:. Thanks
Click to expand...
Lol, the link thing is cleaver.

As for reading Up-tilt, whenever you're directly infront of him...which you should be ready for down-smash, down tilt anyway...not to mention grabs. When he's sitting below a platform...

If you approach cautiously, above him is a good place to get in at. You can't beat his range by the traditional powershield approach b/c he has such a good grab game.
 
jiovanni007

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Jester Kirby said:
If you approach cautiously, above him is a good place to get in at. You can't beat his range by the traditional powershield approach b/c he has such a good grab game.
Click to expand...
lolwut? Approaching from above is a terrible idea as I stated since his utilt ***** us if we approach from there. Won't hit us standing in front of him though, but the he can just grab/dtilt. This match is pretty frustrating but since he's slow you do have the ability to get in on him. Its just tougher due to his spacing abilities.
 
Ladybug

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Gtfo Fogo. You don't even play Kirby. :p <3

Although Ike wouldn't be bad. Or Falco. Have we talked about Falco? There seems to be an influx of them which is why I say that.
 
Asdioh

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Infern Angelis said:
Click to expand...
This made me laugh really hard for some reason.
wtf are you doing here anyway?
"Best Snake in Ohio?" Where the hell have I been?!


Anyway, I've been trying to avoid this thread because I think matchup discussions are annoying as hell, but not much else is going on around here so I'll say a couple things

Kirby vs D3: long story short the game comes down to "who plays better/smarter" so the ratio is close enough to even, but I feel it's slightly in Dedede's favor because he outranges and outpowers us so severely.

Though I would love to play any D3 main who dares to take me to PS1, lol.
Don't ask why, it's too hard to describe Kirby's **** on that stage with words.


Kirby vs Ike: roughly even, probably a little bit in Kirby's favor. Once he's offstage, and even or below the ledge, he's screwed, but if he DIs up he should be alright. On the ground, Ike generally wins, because JAB JAB JAB JAB
in the air, Ike outranges us, but is slower. Basically, if you get inside his range and start comboing him, he's in trouble.
But he can KO really early so watch out.


Kirby vs Lucas: I don't have too much matchup experience against good Lucas players. I would be willing to bet it's slightly in Kirby's favor though. I'm not amazing with Lucas, but I do play him often enough because I think he's really fun (except when I'm trying to recover on wifi) and I know he has some quick/overprioritizing moves we have to watch out for. Nair and Fair .... well, all his aerials are pretty deadly.
*shrug* :/
 
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