Peach Weekly-Match Up Rediscussion: Pikachu

As the number of characters left to discuss in the Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion thread begins to dwindle, I've have decided to start up topics for rediscussing characters who I feel may need to be covered again. This is primarily due to potential changes in the match up, new discoveries, new tactics and how they may have affected the match up. Also, for some characters, because they were discussed a long time ago, they may be out of date

Now because I can't trust some of you on this board, I'm going to copy/paste these rules on all of these rediscussion threads:

-SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS WITH EXAMPLES/EVIDENCE/THOUGHT/VIDEO. Do not say "Snake beats Peach" or "Peach owns Wolf" or something out of the blue without explaining why, you are just wasting thread space. Keep intelligent discussion.

-We are here to learn, not fight. We're all trying to become better Peach players, so please don't get into over heated discussions - learn and be reasonable.

-This thread serves two purposes. A) To determine how the matchup goes for Peach. B) To determine how to handle the matchup. So not only post why you think it goes (see guideline below), but post strategies and what you do that works.

-Feel free to add really good tactics you discover of a character already discussed. New tactics are helpful and don't think just because its already been discussed not to add anything, or we will never get better information on the matchup as the meta game progresses!

- PLEASE let me know if you want me to highlight anything from the thread discussion into that respective character's "summary" on this page. I'm not always sure whats the best advice and whats not so help point it out to me for me to highlight

- Attempting to ridicule someone to prove your point will not be tolerated. It disgusts me when people try to do this. If someone struggles with something and you don't or if someone thinks the match up is such and such because of this and you think 'well you can do this and this, why are they saying that?' for the love of god, explain to them your viewpoint. Insults such as 'well your air game must suck if you find this hard' are pathetic, childish and I will mostly likely disregard whatever else you have to say

I wish I didn't have to feel the need to do this as it clusters up the OP of each of these topics and someones going to have a cry about me putting this but sadly, I can't trust some of you. I don't care about personal feuds or the like. Keep the discussion match up related ok?

Now that's out of the way...this rediscussion will be dedicated to:

I'm gonna a love song. Or in the shower. Take your pick

So yea, Pikachu

Hiiigh Voltage

Pikachu in the shower?? I don't get it...

Anyway, seems quite even to me. They annoy each other equally. But I'll just sit back and listen.

Yaaay said:

Pikachu in the shower?? I don't get it...

Anyway, seems quite even to me. They annoy each other equally. But I'll just sit back and listen.

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Pikachu = Peek at you. If you say it quickly it sounds like it anyway. They're both dreadful puns but I couldn't think of anything else

A key part of this is being able to powersheild his Thunder Jolts. Bear in mind your aerials can also go through so if he's using it as a last ditch attempt to avoid getting gimped, you can hit him through the Thunder Jolt and carry onto hit him although I can't imagine that happening very often since most Pikachus will space away as they do it to avoid punishment

His QAC is very fast and annoying but you can stop it by D Smashing or Nairing it or just hitting it anyway. IIRC, Pikachus hurtbox gets pretty massive when he uses it as well

Aren't the lyrics, 'I'm NOT gonna wirte you a love song'? Meh, does't really matter...

I have a bit of experience with this matchup, and I think that it's 45:55 Pikachu's favour (actually, I think it's more like 47:53, but considering that we generally like neat ratios here....) Despite being very lightweight, good Pikachus are surprisingly hard to kill. His Uair is very short duration, and after that Skull Bash is one of the best momentum cancellers in the game. This means that Pikachu is both quite hard to kill AND hard to combo. Peach can also make herself quite hard to kill if you space right, since Pikachu's kill moves are either short-ranged in general (USmash) or have a short-range sweetspot (FSmash). His Tjolts, IIRC, can be cancelled out by Dairs, which makes approaching easier.

One really annoying thing about Pikachu is his Nair. It's like Peach's except stronger, and it can **** recoveries if you aren't careful. As for his chaingrabs, the DThrow chaingrab definitely doesn't work, but I'm not sure about the FThrow chaingrab. Uair is an annoying juggle move, and if he spaces it right Nair shouldn't hit. After a Uair or two he can follow up with Nair, which as explained before is good at killing. And don't bother trying to gimp him; chances are it won't work.

That's all I've got. Basic strategy: use properly spaced Dairs to chip away at him, space correctly so that he has a harder time killing you, cancel out Tjolts that he sends and use anti-air moves when he tries to approach. It's only a slight advantage on Pikachu's side.

His fthrow CG works only twice on Peach if I remember correctly.

Come on guys, post please :/ Don't go telling me to put up a rediscussion thread and then hardly contribute to it

I don't care if you don't put much in your post or what you say is completely obvious or anything, please just post and make it look like this is going somewhere. I'm getting slightly sick of some rediscussion threads being borederline ignored, do people not care about match ups anymore?

Welcome to how I feel with stage discussion.

It might be because there aren't any Pika mains in here debating, lol.
I'll go contact their leader.

i just wanted to say im making dinner, and i will write a nice long post after that either edited into this one or afterwards if someone posts. im just gonna drop 50-50 for now, maybe 55-45 pika

Alright, this matchup is pretty even. peach completely outproritises pikachu in the air. while her ground game is sub par, her jab beats out pikahcu and can even interrupt pikachu in the middle of his jabs ._. fair to jab works very well on pikachu, there is no way we can punish it if you land the fair on sheild. one thing i noticed when playing kos-mos at oh snap, everytime he landed a dair on my sheild i could punish with nair OOS. you really need good spacing to keep up with pikachu as our speed and punishing abilities can make it hard for you, for even though our aerials lack priority we can use our speed to land them around your moves. save your kill moves, as mentioned pikachu can survive rediulously long, especially for a hard killing char like peach. save your fair and bair as much as you can, try to sneak in ftilts and utilts at high percents, etc. also be careful of where you float- i found that one of the best ways for us to get a kill on you is to use a running usmash if you guys float just a little too close. thunder is another thing to watch out for, given your guys love of being in the air.

thats all i can think of for the moment, im willing to answer any questions on what i said or the matchup though, ive had the opportunity to play some good peaches

Thunder is especially deadly against Peach, since her air dodge is so bad. I can't say how many times Anther has caught me with a well-spaced thunder up top, and not being able to do anything about it.

yeah thunder is really good, and its a built in frame trap. i dont think that peach can punish thunder except maybe fsmash and turnip. if you try with anything else you will either catch a lingering hitbox or we can sheild/dodge and punish. if you hear that PIKA make every attempt to avoid

are you sure fair can go through the lingering hitboxes without getting hit? thats what im talking about, i love trading hits using thunder

Make sure you SDI that dsmash ;D
Watch out for early thunder kills, and dont get hit by usmash

Stealth Raptor said:

i dont think that peach can punish thunder except maybe fsmash and turnip.

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Sorry, but..... wrong.

Stealth Raptor said:

are you sure fair can go through the lingering hitboxes without getting hit? thats what im talking about, i love trading hits using thunder

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Fair DEFINITELY punishes thunder safely. Happens to me all the time. ****'s disjointed as ****.

Fair is safe punishment for any move Pikachu whiffs as long as it's spaced correctly.

Anyways, as for the MU in general.... I do agree with Stealth that in theory it's even. Neither character has a clear advantage over the other when you compare them in a strictly technical sense.

However, in practice, I'd argue that the MU is somewhat in Peach's favor, and I know a number of other Pikas feel the same way (if only they weren't too lazy to post, lol). I've said this in the Zelda social: a floating, defensive Peach is pretty much unapproachable by Pikachu. Turnips and tjolts camp ~equally as effectively (or you can just float above them and use aerials to cancel them), and with proper float spacing, your aerials beat/cancel/interrupt anything we can approach with.

Pikachu also has a fairly small shield, so shield pressuring him (dair and FC fair > jab jab bull****, anyone?) is very effective.

Our saving grace is that Peach can't kill, plus, as Stealth already said, Pika has a ridiculously good momentum canceler..... he can survive a surprisingly long time. Also, platforms really help us in this MU, because (imo) camping from above Peach puts the camp game in our favor. It's also much easier to approach her from an angle slightly above her.

At low percentages, the game is difficult for Pikachu, I feel. Peach doesn't get combo'd for very long (you're pretty safe past ~0%), but since Pika falls moderately fast, Peach can get him in a few of her throw bull****s that can rack up a ton of damage in a very short period of time.

Once they're both out of combo range, it really becomes a game of who can punish who better, and things even out/begin to shift in Pika's favor. Pikachu cannot whiff anything within fair range, because fair is a ridiculously good punisher. (Dunno how much/when you guys save it for the kill, though.... the Peach I play against uses it sort of liberally.) Likewise, Peach should avoid being grounded (Pika's ground game > Peach's, obv) or situations where she's high in the air and vulnerable to thunder, because her airdodge is super doodoo.

At high percentages, I feel as though both characters have trouble killing the other, but Pikachu has a slight advantage for sheer-power-and-number-of-options's sake. Pika is lighter but has a better momentum canceler; he also has more KO options than Peach, although it can be hard for him to land them while she's floating (you should be floating, btw). We really just need to avoid fair, which is usually a simple matter of not making any mistakes within fair range..... fair's a good punisher, but it's slow-ish, so you can't just pull it out of nowhere. Usmash can be dangerous on stages with platforms but really isn't a huge deal, and fsmash does kill Pika, but with good DI, it's gonna take a while.

On the other hand, we have fsmash, which shouldn't be a huge concern for you (with her FC'd aerials + quick jab, it's dumb hard to hit Peach with the sweetspot unless she's like.... pulling a turnip in your face or something).... usmash, which is a good mid-range punisher (hyphen smash, specifically).... nair, which I usually stale a lot during the match, so it takes some refreshing (nair oos is good vs. Peach for when you lag anywhere)..... and thunder, which should be your biggest concern, imo.

Anyways. I just lost steam, and I got crap to do, but those're my thoughts on the MU. The Peach I play against is usually aggressive, which is the wrong way to play the MU; when he goes defensive, it's significantly harder to fight him. So, yeah, just play super defensive, and I feel like the MU actually favors you guys a bit.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:

Come on guys, post please :/ Don't go telling me to put up a rediscussion thread and then hardly contribute to it

I don't care if you don't put much in your post or what you say is completely obvious or anything, please just post and make it look like this is going somewhere. I'm getting slightly sick of some rediscussion threads being borederline ignored, do people not care about match ups anymore?

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I contribute to every matchup I have experience in...

Yes there are a few who regularly contirbute but only having a few people contributing doesn't let us get a variety of opinions

I pretty much agree with what KayLo said. And whats this business with Pikachus Thunder Jolts and Thunder and trying to cancel them out with aerials? Really, your best option is the powersheild both of them. Thunder Jolts aren't the fastest of projectiles and are fairly linear in movement and if you're on the ground when Pikachu uses Thunder, just run/walk up to the Thunder, powersheild it and then proceed to punish. If you powersheild Thunder then it can't hit you unless Pikachu uses it again (but you'll have hit him by then...)

I appreciate how irritating they are on the likes of Wi Fi but with no input lag, they're not exactly difficult to powersheild. Obviously this is a different matter when you're in the air but aerials will go through Thunder Jolts and continue on to hit Pikachu if he's nearby and Thunder...well Peach has an appauling airdodge so you'll have to move and airdodge very precisely not to get hit by it


The guy I used to play who mained Pikachu offline doesn't use him anymore and we've both significantly changed our playstyles anyway so I'm not as confident as I used to be on this match up

I dont really have much to say about this one. Most Pika players here dont like fighting Peach. It seems to be very annoying to them for some reason. I agree with Kaylo fully on what he said. id say 60:40 Peach favor.

it really is. peach's float speed is faster then pikas air speed, which makes it really *****y to approach peach. combine that with an annoyingly fast jab and high priority aerials and its a matchup i would honestly rather never play ._.

I've played a few Pikachu's in tournaments and I will say I think it's in Peach's favor but only like 55-45. For awhile, I thought Pikachu was a Peach counter, but I've gotten a little bit better with the match up so I don't think that way anymore.

Dair is a good move as long as you space it correctly. You don't want to get dsmashed by Pikachu!! I played a Pikachu in a money match and he told me everytime I daired he was scared ****less :-p You can also stop his tjolts with dair as well.

Bair also works very nicely. Nair too.

I actually like platforms when it comes to Pikachu because it takes away the thunder option unless you're above the platforms and they're going in for a kill at the top.

Watch out for Pikachu's fsmash.

Toad works well in several situations too.

Fair the little rat when you can, but don't spam it. Try to save it, there are plenty of other moves you can do, including your tilts, jabs, and grabs.

Turnips are awesome too!! <3

I say dead even due to her air priority and Pika ground game. Peaches turnips can remove the thunder threat for the ground and the air game is (again) bout spacing >.< lets see what the other pikas has to say lol

Oh, and I don't think this needs to be mentioned but never ever ever ever ever ever ever momentum cancel any sort of vertical knockback pikachu deals to you. just use DI and time your double jump + airdodge if you see the thunder coming. ;O

Razmakazi said:

Oh, and I don't think this needs to be mentioned but never ever ever ever ever ever ever momentum cancel any sort of vertical knockback pikachu deals to you. just use DI and time your double jump + airdodge if you see the thunder coming. ;O

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Good advice.

Metatitan said:

Peach's Fair is disjointed and has more range than marth's Fair, I'm pretty sure she won't be trading hits lol

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"Disjointed"...? Is it really separate from her hurtbox? I always thought it just had range out the wazoo.

Anyway, I don't have much experience with Pika, but on paper I could definitely see this as being a strong Peach advantage. We outcamp him - that's usually what throws stuff in our favor after we take a second look.

Peach is pretty freakin solid. My experience fighting peach comes from the battles agains Drk.Peach whenever he was still around (before he went uber-emo i think).... I can't say for peachs in low skill level or mid-skill level, but definitely higher skill peachs make pika's match a lot harder. If pika doesn't get creative, i am not gonna lie, the pika will get owned (turnips>d-air/grab>u-air/buffered-throw chaingrab>rinse_repeat_mindgame>kill).

In my experiences against Drk. Peach in friendlies, once i got a hang of when Peach does the float/jump and initiates and aerial, I just run up REAL close and u-air/f-air (mostly mindgamed but that's my forte) the moment the peach is thinking of hovering. Most of the time, even if pika's hit is a clean one, both characters often just trade hits (with pika having more damage). When I get down and dirty against peach, i mostly play attrition (damage racking) against Peach with major spam (that's still just my pref.) and finish with a mindgamed/lucky 'anything.' F-air is slower in starting up (not saying that it is SLOW by any means.. just slower) so I bet pika's f-airs and u-airs against Peach's f-airs at really close range (I'd get close like this whenever i am higher in damage so wierd 0-40+ combos from peach don't work anymore).

General summary of my strategy against peach:
When I am at low damage I camp like crazy and run in only at the oppurtune moments (plucking turnip but within range of run-up grab/smash), since one whiff could mean a 40-60'ish tap-dance combo from peach. At middle range damage I try to be as close range (luigi uppercut distance) as possible defending myself with spotdodges, d-smash, and full-hop b-airs whenever the peach starts getting a foothold (close range since farther away would prompt more turnips which hurt). At higher extremities, I often take the conservative approach in a tourney and camp/plank with t-jolts and T2.

I feel that stage does make a HUGE different in the ease of this matchup. My easiest matches against peach's (and the couple where I won against dark peach) were on platform stages like battlefield. I find Peach struggling a lil more with t-jolts that wrap around platforms (case and point: Battlefield and smashville). It narrows their float height and makes their airdodges more predictable so pika may be better spaced for approaching on the ground or the peach may flub the autocancel more (which is always good). Dealing with float is the biggest issue for pikachu's in my honest opinion--take it however you want. I think that if pikachu plays his cards right, there's a 50-50 setup where if pika knows peach well enough, QA into float>QaC>Rinse/repeat or add mindgamed setups/ko's will null all of peach's float options except immediate n-air/b-air. If pikachu mindgames a n-air/b-air out of peach consistently, f-smashes and run-up u-smashes (or other attacks outside b-air range) are the valuable avenues for the peach kill. The only thing to remember about platforms against peach is all that insta-turnip-pluck crap, but a majority of that is easier to deal with than a perfectly spacing defensive/floating peach. Powershielding and HOLDING the shield after the powershield (to combat the jab) i think is key in this matchup for pikachus because it keeps pika safe from grab if peach autocancels at long range or allows pika a free usmash out of shield after the end of the jabs (if pika remains shielding until then ) at close range.

My brother little brother is an amazin' TL main and playing my whole brawl life with him makes catching turnips with f-airs/u-air/d-airs/and full hopped b-airs a LOT easier. The turnip catching is what makes camping even possible for me as a pikachu. Even still, if the peach just follows up a well spaced turnip throw, she still may have frame advantages sometimes here and there which sucks for pikachus.

As for a recovering peach, I try to nail them with offstage T2, which forces them to go lower. After that, i just hope/pray for a mindgamed thunderwall spike later on in the match. By the way, if you don't have much qualms about planking (or dont mind being a jerk...j/k...lol), me and my peach sparring buddies almost fully agree that planking with Thunder offstage with decent spacing shuts off all of peachs options for outdamaging you (can't throw down if lightning wall is hovering above pika... not even with z-drop ledge shenanigans ^_^) and will lure the stupid ones out for a gimp. At this point, its just a campfest if either players don't want to risk quick death.

I'd say almost 50-50 in terms of at high-damage gameplay, but WAY different matchup difficulty at varying situations of damage and stage orientations--its up to you guys to discern whether that difference is good for you or us, since it lies in mindgames and particular players preferences at this point.

My only regret in facing Drk. Peach is that I never met Niko K at the time (when the rivalry was heated ^_^) to honestly compare the two.

Anyways.... there's my spiel as a legendary pikachu.... lol ^_^
[/QUOTE]

did i say no koast? if i said no koast i meant oh snap. he used pretty much all peach there

yeah i did say no koast, sorry

Posting for Dark.Pch (since he has some interesting input).

Pikachu-

50-50

If pika uses his Quick attack cancels on you, attack out of your shield if he lands near you. But expect follow ups after the quick attacks. i usually do an instand FC>Nair to shut that game down.But this is not easy. and can through you off track. This is why you should not play aggressive against Pika and try to catch him. He can mix this up with Nairs which makes it hard to hit him and you get countered attack. Same with other of his air attacks.

Pika does not really have a solid approach on you, nor many options for it. But you do so you beat him there. when Pika starts his combos, he is good at sticking to Peach due to her weight. This would be his air game mostly. But you also got the combos on him. So its 50/50 on this part. Though it is a lot harder for pika to keep it up. But when he does, it becomes a pain in the ***

Makes 2 main solid kills on Peach are his Upsmash and thunder. Don't get thunder while off the stage, you will die quickly. Anther once throw me off, than ran next to me and thundered. I was near his body i believe and I died on battle field around 52 or 62%. reason for this was it sent me side ways more than upward. You have more kill options if you keep your moves fresh. And he won't b e on the stage for too long.

Dsmash wont kill you until you are at High %. unless the Dsmash sends you upward then he catches you with thunder. Fsmash you can live that pretty well if you DI up and to the stage.

Edgeguarding him if not that much of a problem. Snip or Zdrop turnips. If you have quick reactions, you can tell where pika is gonna go when coming back to the stage. so it is not that hard to punish or even gimp him out of his recovery. I can try to snipe you with a turnip and mess up your angle of going for the edge. then I can grab it soon after. you would have no choice but to aim to get on stage, as soon as you do and you land near me I can hope on and grab you, send you back out, or FC>nair you off the stage. Also from the sniping if you are too far off, I just time a edge hog and you fall to your demise.

T-jolts will not prevent you from executing a worthwhile float approach. i can just float over then, and if you jump while doing it, I can run under or just full hope them then float at any level I want to get at you. If you try glide toss while Pika is abusing the t-jolts,would you glide toss into a t-jolt? Not really. Cause 2 things can happen.

- I will hit you with a turnip before you get another out.

- Turnip will block the Jolt and I can just attack/Grab you. You will be open for a hit. if you do it in the air. I can glide toss under it and get close to you. if I perfect shield a jolt I can attack you. if I wanna be really gay about it, i'll just Up-B out of my shield. If I perfect shield a jolt and you come at me I can:

Up-B (If near me close enough to do it)
Jab
Ftilt
Uptilt (yes I am serious if you do it at the hit of the hit box.)

If he spamms you:

- Toss a turnip over the jolts to get to pika, he will have to stop no matter what

- Float over then

- use the platforms to get close.

- Power shield and then move in till you get colse enough for him to stop.

Fair is not hard for me to land on pika. Slow you down with turnips, and time my attacks right and pika will east some Fairs. Also If Pika Fairs me from medium range, a Ftilt is fast enough to get you. Same with her jab cause it is quick, also has range and priority. your Fair also leads and I can punish easy out of my shield. also for peach:

Approaches:
- Fair
- FC>Fair
- Dair
- FC>Dair
- FC>Nair
- Turnip>Fair
- FC>Turnip>Fair
- Bair
- Glide tossing
- Nair

Advance approaches:

- Glide toss> FC>Nair
- Glide toss>reverse Bair
- Glide toss>Nair
- Glide toss>Grab
- Reverse Glide toss> Dsmash or Fsmash
- Reverse Glide toss> Bair

Anyways. I just lost steam, and I got crap to do, but those're my thoughts on the MU. The Peach I play against is usually aggressive, which is the wrong way to play the MU; when he goes defensive, it's significantly harder to fight him. So, yeah, just play super defensive, and I feel like the MU actually favors you guys a bit.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Does playing Deffensively go for every matchup? Peach just has a hard time killing anything in General.. Only time you should crap yourself is when she's edge guarding. And even in that perspective, the Peach player must have great knowledge of the opponents character, playing style and move distance and direction. Angle something incorrectly and there is no problem with the opponent coming back.

I play aggressivly with peach and I noticed the significance of doing that against a Pikachu. If a Peach player is too defensive, then nothing gets done :|. I think it should just be a combination of waiting for the Pikachu to preform the wrong move. Either way I'm still new to the world of Peach.

I consider this matchup 50-50. Will list reasons later