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Well, me and Javon89 had a heated debate about Brawl a few minutes ago and we have decided to bring it to the boards.
Anyway, my side is how everything boils down to techs, while he has to prove me wrong. At the end of our discussion on MSN I had won, with me boiling it all down to techs. Lets see if you guys can wether back me up or help Javon...
I was too lazy to upload it in anyway so I made a hiden page on a webs page I had once upon a time... You can read the whole MSN disscusion here: http://endallfears.webs.com/heateddisscusion.htm
Also, we decided to put it here as it does have something about Tactical Discussion if you really read the whole thing.
ALSO, if anyone is that mentally retarded, I'm ~{Mclena45}~ and Javon89 is Javon ftw!.
Ok here's there msn chat if you don't like the link:
avon ftw! says:
all firstly I was camping you with link & mario
and it worked
thats it in a nutshell
hello?
~{Mclena45}~ says:
yeah I guess, but just saying
everthing came in at once
at like 6:04
Javon ftw! says:
because I typed it in then
~{Mclena45}~ says:
oh
well why did you say hello?
Javon ftw! says:
oh because i thought you weren't there
and you need to work on PT
~{Mclena45}~ says:
I couldn't do anything cause u were spamming bombs and Sonic has one of the best matchups against PT
Javon ftw! says:
but when you got into my territory you didn't punish well
usually when I got KO'ed
it was because of a random Usmash for Ivy
from*
~{Mclena45}~ says:
wtf are you talking about, I only used Usmash unsucsefully like 2 times but thats because you douged
doged*
or whatev.
Javon ftw! says:
well there were mutiple matches
~{Mclena45}~ says:
yeah and really I only Usmashed when I needed to
so it wasn't random
Javon ftw! says:
and plus I remember as Link I dodged and then you Usmashed
~{Mclena45}~ says:
really I would say it was my Fsmashes if anything
its calld lag
called*
Javon ftw! says:
I know
~{Mclena45}~ says:
both machines arn't playing at the same speed
Javon ftw! says:
>_>
~{Mclena45}~ says:
aren't
Javon ftw! says:
of course
but you can't blame evrything on lag
there wasn't that much to begin with
~{Mclena45}~ says:
I'm not
Javon ftw! says:
except at the start of matches
~{Mclena45}~ says:
my inputs wern't up to speed
Javon ftw! says:
then got less laggy
~{Mclena45}~ says:
it was like half a second off
which is big in brawl
Javon ftw! says:
do you have replays?
of those matches?
~{Mclena45}~ says:
nope, I think I saved one
if any
Javon ftw! says:
T.T crap
well before this gets into a fight
~{Mclena45}~ says:
you should of recorded them if you wanted them on youtube
Javon ftw! says:
lets see how we can make ourselves better
and plus I don't have a camera
~{Mclena45}~ says:
start playing offline >.>
Javon ftw! says:
well we don't have much player in Brampton to play with
~{Mclena45}~ says:
then we're both going to continue playing at or around or current skill levels
Javon ftw! says:
wrong
~{Mclena45}~ says:
online play may be a good mean of training but
its not the same
Javon ftw! says:
theres that
~{Mclena45}~ says:
they're training you for online play
not offline
unfortunatly
Javon ftw! says:
explain please
~{Mclena45}~ says:
your training online
Javon ftw! says:
I haven't been trained by anyone
~{Mclena45}~ says:
with some guy
so to speek
they're training you online, not offline
Javon ftw! says:
I train offline with my brother
but he suck
~{Mclena45}~ says:
but its just one person
Javon ftw! says:
s
~{Mclena45}~ says:
over and over and over again
and your only preping your self for that one person
Javon ftw! says:
and plus I just go on wi-fi when I get bored
~{Mclena45}~ says:
just sayi
saying*
Javon ftw! says:
plus I'll be playing other people at Nightmare's Smashfest
they'll help me
~{Mclena45}~ says:
but for how long though?
one day isn't enough training unfortunatly
no matter how hard or long you train in the time ur there
which isn't long I bet
Javon ftw! says:
and plus if I get videos up people will see my weaknesses
critisize
~{Mclena45}~ says:
and tell you how to train on you BROTHER
see where I'm getting at?
Javon ftw! says:
and in a way I improve
no not really
~{Mclena45}~ says:
I bet you $10000000 that you wont face the majority of people you meet at smashfest
Javon ftw! says:
actually yes
there will be mutiple set ups
~{Mclena45}~ says:
its next to impossible to improve in brawl other than learning techs
Javon ftw! says:
so you're saying I won't get better unless I face alot of ppl
~{Mclena45}~ says:
and I mean a lot of people
Javon ftw! says:
but that makes no sence
~{Mclena45}~ says:
how so?
Javon ftw! says:
what about my progress not
now*
~{Mclena45}~ says:
your learning how to camp
thats a type of techs\
tech*
Javon ftw! says:
I would be still a C-stick spamming noob as I once was
I can short-hop
~{Mclena45}~ says:
thats progress alright, but to get a way from there you had to learn techs
Javon ftw! says:
gimp effectively
~{Mclena45}~ says:
like short-hop
as said above
its a type of tech
Javon ftw! says:
so? isn't that still progress?
~{Mclena45}~ says:
which is really the only way to improve in brawl
everything has progress
Javon ftw! says:
so aren't I improving?
~{Mclena45}~ says:
yes you are, but listen to what I've been saying carefuly
not saying you aren't improving
your just seeing past my moves
Javon ftw! says:
but first you're saying that the only other way to get better is to face dozens of people
but thats because I read you
~{Mclena45}~ says:
exactly
we've faced sooo many times
you know what I'm going to do nextg
but
then you get out there
expecting one of my moves
Javon ftw! says:
but I can read anyone after the first match win or lose
~{Mclena45}~ says:
exactly
Javon ftw! says:
for instance
~{Mclena45}~ says:
thats why you need to use that in other matches
its all progress
Javon ftw! says:
this guy has a fool proof plan with Samus
~{Mclena45}~ says:
you do progress in brawl
EVERYONE who picks up the game does
heck
even conner does
but thats because the only person he's playing is me
thats why you killed him on my bday
not because he sucks
just because he's only used to my movements
Javon ftw! says:
you know Ally right
~{Mclena45}~ says:
yeha
yeah
Javon ftw! says:
he can read a person right after the first stock
~{Mclena45}~ says:
so can ken really
but thats progress
Javon ftw! says:
after he's gotten the data he can play mind-games
~{Mclena45}~ says:
anyone can do that if they know how to TECH
back to square one
Javon ftw! says:
and with Snake he wins all the time
~{Mclena45}~ says:
properly anyway
Javon ftw! says:
the reason why he loses to other top players is because they don't have much error
like M2K for example
and they also use alot of mix-ups
~{Mclena45}~ says:
which is a type of
tech
*gasp*
Javon ftw! says:
>_<
you're not getting the point
and I'm not finished
~{Mclena45}~ says:
nether of us really are
nether am I
we're just running in a strait line
and going backward
s
every now and again
not nessisarily a circle
cause we don't go over the same thing every time
wish to continue?
Javon ftw! says:
yes this is interesting
we are having a constructive debate on how to improve
~{Mclena45}~ says:
yeah
Javon ftw! says:
wait I'm gonna wirte something really long
~{Mclena45}~ says:
ok
take ur time
Javon ftw! says:
there are 5 steps to Improve
Spontaneity
Dynamic Reactions & Movement
Patience
Unpredictability / Conditioning
Technical Skill
firstly
Spontaniety is like this
~{Mclena45}~ says:
after this I want to critizie
:3
Javon ftw! says:
say you're camping with Mario and the opponent is forced approch
It sets him up
which I'll get into later
when he approaches you
~{Mclena45}~ says:
*cough*tech*cough*... continue
Javon ftw! says:
you blow him back with either a Usmash or B-Up
and continue camping
after a while you'll start to get predictable
and in some places is good and bad
~{Mclena45}~ says:
which you can take into effect
and punish
Javon ftw! says:
depending on the player he will soon begin to pick up on you
also playing into your hands in some cases
when he take a diffrent approach
you then cape him to stall then Bthrow offstage into Fair
you know he can airdodge but in his mind he was expecting a B-up or Usmash
and took too long to react
few players can escape the mindgame
I am finished my example
~{Mclena45}~ says:
one word.
tech
:2
:3
Javon ftw! says:
of course
~{Mclena45}~ says:
which gets back to square one
back at the starting line
Javon ftw! says:
but you have yet to learn that it is more than that
~{Mclena45}~ says:
I know its more than that
Javon ftw! says:
it is a mind game
~{Mclena45}~ says:
which boils down to techs
Javon ftw! writes:
~{Mclena45}~ says:
in order to mind game you need to tech
Javon ftw! says:
nope
~{Mclena45}~ says:
you have to have at least one
Javon ftw! says:
teching is something you can do based on your skill in a game
~{Mclena45}~ says:
brawl really takes no skill
Javon ftw! says:
but instead you can get into the player physhe
playing into your hands
~{Mclena45}~ says:
you just need to learn how to tech
Javon ftw! says:
correct
~{Mclena45}~ says:
which puts us at the starting line
Javon ftw! says:
but pulling it off is is a diffrent story
and thats is the most important part
you accidentally do it also
~{Mclena45}~ says:
which is progress
Javon ftw! says:
now you're getting it
~{Mclena45}~ says:
I already had
Javon ftw! says:
as your ability to do this you progress
~{Mclena45}~ says:
it
but you progress with the learning of tech
Javon ftw! says:
and that is Brawl
~{Mclena45}~ says:
exactly
Javon ftw! says:
of cource
~{Mclena45}~ says:
but we aren't done yet
I think anyway
cause the inclusion of techs put us back to square one
back to my point
and in a heated argument that we are having now
Javon ftw! says:
I know tech is an important part
~{Mclena45}~ says:
if at the end, we are back at one perons point
that person has succesfully proved their point
thus ending the descussion
unless
you have something to prove it wrong
Javon ftw! says:
but all you've been doing is covering everything I said and marking as a tech
~{Mclena45}~ says:
cause it boils down to techs
everything in brawl has something to do with a tech
unless your just standing there
but
what fun is that
Javon ftw! says:
I'm taking this to the boards
~{Mclena45}~ says:
rofl
I'm joining
Javon ftw! says:
I'll see what the other smashers have to say
Well it seems like to me you're blaming online for your lack of success against your friend. Then you got really defensive about the his critique of your characters.
Brawl is about match-up knowledge more than anything either of you said. Know that 'move A' is best punished by 'move B', and know not to use 'move C' in this fight because his 'move D' will knock you out of it every time.
Well it seems like to me you're blaming online for your lack of success against your friend. Then you got really defensive about the his critique of your characters.
I'm not blaming anything. Sure, I got defensive, but, at least I was able to keep my point, and if you actually had a discussion like this, you would know that as long as you keep your point, you stay in the convo. And we always critique our characters, its just that my button inputs WERE off timing due to the automatic online lag that is Wi-Fi. Thats why I dislike online play, but that's beside the point, the point is that we were trying to prove our point, and now we want you guys to help. We didn't have to you know, just thought that we could take the discussion that we both enjoyed to other people that might also.
If these people continue to spam this thread then mod, close this thread.
ALSO, is this a good format for everyone? >.>
EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Problem2
Brawl is about match-up knowledge more than anything either of you said. Know that 'move A' is best punished by 'move B', and know not to use 'move C' in this fight because his 'move D' will knock you out of it every time.
Thanks for joining the discussion. Anyway, I guess your right, if you put this into perspective, nether of us got it right. Meaning that we have to now prove you wrong while still keeping our point. Sure 'move D' will knock you out of it every time, but that's most likely because 'move A' was used at the wrong place at the wrong time during a tech, meaning that 'move A' was out of place and totally unneeded for the tech that might of been in play.
And you're saying you just need to know how to tech to play Brawl?
Tech chases aren't THAT relevant in Brawl... compared to Melee anyway...
Quote:
Well it seems like to me you're blaming online for your lack of success against your friend. Then you got really defensive about the his critique of your characters.
I'm not blaming anything. Sure, I got defensive, but, at least I was able to keep my point, and if you actually had a discussion like this, you would know that as long as you keep your point, you stay in the convo. And we always critique our characters, its just that my button inputs WERE off timing due to the automatic online lag that is Wi-Fi. Thats why I dislike online play, but that's beside the point, the point is that we were trying to prove our point, and now we want you guys to help. We didn't have to you know, just thought that we could take the discussion that we both enjoyed to other people that might also.
If these people continue to spam this thread then mod, close this thread.
ALSO, is this a good format for everyone? >.>
if you continue to get defensive and blam wifi you won't improve. it;s easy to use wifi as crutch and exclaim it as the reason of your poor play. However, when you see top pro's playing wifi or upcoming wifi players that are placing high in offline tournies you point is weaken.
^Didn't Ally, Samboner, and some other well known players get good off of Wifi (or atleast the AiB ladder)?
I mean, sure, your reaction time will suck ***. But it'll help you become a smarter, less readable player.
Yeah Bassem also I think anther plays wifi co18 got good on wifi I think ADHD plays wifi Atomisk dabuz choconaner WC diddy pretty **** legit. But there's a lot of people who can get from wifi. I think BizKit plays wifi also . Holy nightmare also.
And you're saying you just need to know how to tech to play Brawl?
No, I'm not. I know a 3 year old could play Brawl with no knowledge of the true aspects within the game. I'm saying that everything can be brought down to a tech, unless you are just doing what the 3 year old is doing and pressing random buttons or just standing there. As said in the convo that you prolly. didn't read, what fun is that?
Here's an example,
Mario vs. lets say... idk, Marth.
Mario is cape stalling Marth to get him confused and shat, other wise known as Stalling, thus the name. Stalling can be executed as a tech or as an accidental movement of buttons or none at all. Assuming the Mario knows how to play, it is executed as a tech.
Quote:
Tech chases aren't THAT relevant in Brawl... compared to Melee anyway...
They may not be as relevant, but they are still pretty important.
EDIT:
At above posts, I'm not blaming ANYTHING at all. Nothing. Just saying that my reaction time was lower than average due to normal lag. I am improving online. I know I am, so does my friend.
Its just that I hit the A button and when I try to follow it up with another attack, the first attack would be in its first frame when I hit the second button a second or so later.
Linear Mode
