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Thank You Plank For Pound 4

Spife

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,016
Location
Neriak
And then I forgot why I was in this thread to begin with.
Pound 4 was great. I almost wish it was melee only but that's because I'm selfish, on the other hand think about something you like to watch or do then imagine a 3 day event devoted to it and tell me you don't get a little green around the gills. :lick:
 

omegawhitemage

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
Messages
2,617
Why do people still think there was a double standard? If you read Plank's post you would see that he didn't know warriorknights team was late. If he had they would've been DQ'd as well. It's not Plank's fault that the opponents were too dumb to report it.
 

Spife

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
3,016
Location
Neriak
Why do people still think there was a double standard? If you read Plank's post you would see that he didn't know warriorknights team was late. If he had they would've been DQ'd as well. It's not Plank's fault that the opponents were too dumb to report it.
I'd say something about that's not a good excuse but it happens all the time with law enforcement (specifically road violations). So yeah, if you don't know rules are being broken then you can't really do anything about it, which still brings me back to my point: COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE :embarrass
 

SOVAman

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
5,313
Location
In VA **** MD
Thanks plank

but people are forgetting to thank thetantalus for sacrificing friendlies and hanging out to help TO
 

Zephynazo

Zobaia -Deus- Ariana
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
1,311
Was it ken saying those things, in ur sig. "Teaming with uim meant instant first and instant fame" etc, Was it Ken saying that?
 

Spamzfair

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
30
My teammate Jman was 10 minutes late for a winners finals team match because his car wouldn't start from the venue so he got there a bit late, and Plank DISQUALIFIED US FROM THE WHOLE TOURNAMENT. Both winners bracket AND losers. His logic was that it was unfair to the people in loser's bracket that they have to play Mew2King and Jman so he DQed us from the whole tournament.

Warrior Knight, who CAME with Jman, was allowed to enter with his teammate.

And on top of THAT, Doll wanted to forfeit his teams match to us anyway so we could go on and win the tourney, and Plank wouldn't let them do that.

It's ****ing bull**** and unacceptable. Me and PC arrived late for Pound2 so we were put in losers bracket but we still came back and won. Everyone I asked and told the whole story/situation to agreed with us as well that it's extremely unfair. Being DQed from winners AND losers?? NOT ALLOWING OPPOSING TEAM TO FORFEIT WHEN THEY SAID THEY WOULD. ALLOWING Warrior Knight to enter but not me and Jman. It's COMPLETELY UNFAIR. I practiced Sheik a lot for that tourney and teams with Jman only to get DQed because Jman arrived late and Plank was an *******. 700 dollars down the drain for no reason at all.
in doubles..that sucks because you and jman usually are pretty sick..alas..sorry to hear that. And to the diddy player..Did he saw it in a playful manner or did he go ****ing anton on you and pulled a coin out saying give my money or ill flip this and start killing people.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,322
Location
Tri-state area
Look, I'm not gonna say that it's wasn't harsh, maybe even unnecessarily so, but Plank warned everyone.


He said basically, "if you're late and your opponent(s) reports you, you're/your team is getting DQ'd".


Obviously warrior knight's opponents didn't report him, he lucked out and his team didn't get DQ'd, I don't see anything unfair about that. Stupid on the part of his opponent, yes, unfair and inconsistent, no.



Honestly, if you guys thought it was unfair, you should've taken it up with him when he announced it, something along the lines of, "wouldn't it be more fair to just make them lose their match so they've got a chance to come back in brackets? This isn't pools after all." But arguing against it after the fact means that if he makes an exception then it looks like he's giving M2K special treatment, which delegitimizes victory if M2K and jman won, and gives everyone who dropped a spot a legitimate complaint, heck dunno maryland law on verbal contracts, but they might've been able to sue.


So, given what he said, Plank had to DQ you guys, I'm sorry and it sucks, but at that point, Plank made the right call. (But imo saying he'd automatically DQ from brackets was the wrong call)
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
2,776
Location
West Chester, PA
Honestly I wasn't there but the more I think about the DQ situation the more I side with Plank. Tournaments I have ran get pretty killer at times, and honestly, he didn't do anything he said he wouldn't do. If you didn't like his rules to begin with, and they were enough to deter you that much, you didn't have to come. Also, it seems like Plank wasn't communicated to enough on the whole forfeit request. If that was the case, why the hell didn't you guys go up to him and ask him about it? To me it sounds like you guys were just sitting on your ***** playing friendlies or *****ing to your friends while Plank made his decision, instead of going up and discussing it, like an adult. That's your fault, not his.

When you go to a national tournament, with a qualified host, you follow his rules, and you also have to understand this is a huge ***** for him to run, it's not easy at all, so if you really want something to get done, you have to make time to go talk to someone about it, not just sit back and then ***** about something happening. The TO doesn't have time for that, nor should he make time for it if you show no effort.

Also, Plank, if ADHD really said that, I'll help you kick his ***. Who the **** gets off saying that? This just adds to the ****ing reason why I hate most Brawl players. So ****ing ********.
 

pheX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
178
Location
Hamburg, Germany

I can not believe that ADHD actually said that.
I would pay him and then ban him for any upcoming tournament.
As a law student i can tell you that you could even sue him for this. Thats not cool at all.
So disrespecting.. disgusting person.

Anyhow I wanna thank you for pound 4 (although i havent been there)
execellent job!
And I'm very impressed by your ability to stay objective. You've been totally right
about this whole jman&m2k DQ thing. Its so good to know that you treated them
like any other person, although they got the fame.

Very good job.
 

thegreatkazoo

Smash Master
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
3,128
Location
Atlanta, GA
amazing tourney + community, good **** plank
sucks I was sick the whole time, really hope nobody caught whatever from me. I tried to keep to myself as much as I could lol
I caught something when I had to head back to Atlanta Tuesday. So it was you! j/k (maybe)

Plank, thanks for everything. You definitely need to be taken out to Ruth's Chris and eat five steaks (with someone else paying, of course.)
 

Luma

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
1,642
Location
Berlin - Germany
i think it was ok to ban jman/m2k from losers aswell since it would have screwed another teams tournament who did nothing wrong while the guys who ****ed up would have gotten another chance

ofc some people might dislike this decision, esp since a lot of money was on the line, but still, you **** up, you will be punished, end of the story
 

GOD!

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
778
Location
Rome, GA
If Plank didn't know about warriorknight being late, then how were they DQed to losers? Or were they not?
 

Iliad

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
1,570
Location
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
i think it was ok to ban jman/m2k from losers aswell since it would have screwed another teams tournament who did nothing wrong while the guys who ****ed up would have gotten another chance
You're kidding right? m2k and jman would have had to climb up through losers to earn their shot at winning. Any dropped set meaning they'd be out. They paid to be in the tournament, they get to play in the tournament, thats final.

@ Plank

I don't know about you Plank? But when someone pays me something for a service, the serviced is tendered. And if it ISN'T tendered, that payment is refunded. If infact I find out you DQed them both, and held out on their money as well? Lol i believe the term is "Character assassination"

Secondly, m2k is a top professional, so is jman. YES they get special treatment i'm ****ing sorry. Players like those two create the hype that even allowed you to have as many entrants as you did. You think Armada or Europe would have given a **** to fly out to your tourney if m2k, Mango, jman, hbox, or drpp weren't there? I'm sorry plank, they're not actually your friends, they came for the competition. Maybe use lava-life next time?

Lastly... Do you even understand why ADHD threatened you when you mentioned people being paid out in cheques?

The fact that the last tournament that ADHD won which was delivered in cheques, bounced. And he missed out on something like 1500+ dollars. He STILL has not been paid for that tournament that he flew out for and was down.

Now, I do agree however that ADHD needs to keep that **** in check, that was definitely uncalled for. They can't pay you in cash if nearly everyone paid for the tournament via online, think about it first.

All this aside: Good tournament over all plank, but I don't care how much you are getting fondled by your new pound fan boys, you don't DQ for the sake of DQing and especially not your big names. You were the subject of a joke in the livestreams a new meme even about who you'd DQ next. The top prediction was mango and hboxd DQed and Plank wins pound4. Not a joke.

*Edit* Just to confirm incase I am misread and someone believes I said Plank should not have DQed Jman and m2k at all, that is wrong. They SHOULD have been DQed to losers, but not entirely. If they're going to rip through losers, well I guess thats a thumbs up to them for being a good team and deserving to remain in the tourney.
 

Luma

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
1,642
Location
Berlin - Germany
they paid yes, but if you arent there on time, you have no right to play
special treatment for good players? good thing you will never host a major tournament
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,322
Location
Tri-state area
You're kidding right? m2k and jman would have had to climb up through losers to earn their shot at winning. Any dropped set meaning they'd be out. They paid to be in the tournament, they get to play in the tournament, thats final.
So, you can duck any other rule in the tournament, cause you paid to play, right?


BS, you pay for the opportunity to compete within the rules, if you violate the rules, you lose that opportunity. I've run a number of events of a variety of different types (haven't TO'd yet, but whatever), and at every event I'm run, there were rules to be followed and consequences if you didn't. This assured the event would run smoothly, and that everyone would have an opportunity to enjoy it.

Without that, there would be disasters.


How many horror stories have I heard, with tournaments running WAY over time?


This **** doesn't happen randomly. a lot of the time it happens cause TOs don't set good rules and don't enforce them, because structure is what makes "on time" happen.

@ Plank

I don't know about you Plank? But when someone pays me something for a service, the serviced is tendered. And if it ISN'T tendered, that payment is refunded. If infact I find out you DQed them both, and held out on their money as well? Lol i believe the term is "Character assassination"

The service was the OPPORTUNITY TO PLAY, you are only guaranteed play if you act within the rules, like everything else is life.


Secondly, m2k is a top professional, so is jman. YES they get special treatment i'm ****ing sorry. Players like those two create the hype that even allowed you to have as many entrants as you did. You think Armada or Europe would have given a **** to fly out to your tourney if m2k, Mango, jman, hbox, or drpp weren't there? I'm sorry plank, they're not actually your friends, they came for the competition. Maybe use lava-life next time?
That behavior will get you sued.


Rules are contracts, you must apply them evenly to everyone, or at the very least make certain that exceptions (such as for top players) are noted. If you don't, then everyone else can claim violation of your contract and take you to court.


Don't think people would? This was a massive event, a lot of money went through, and since Maryland's class-action lawsuits don't have a minimum number of people, and when we consider punitive damages, well we're looking at the possibility of a massive lawsuit, so it's definitely worth it. It's also fraud, which means that criminal charges could be filed.


Your rules are your contracts, period, don't follow them and you get burned, this is real **** and could get you in a lot of trouble.


Lastly... Do you even understand why ADHD threatened you when you mentioned people being paid out in cheques?

The fact that the last tournament that ADHD won which was delivered in cheques, bounced. And he missed out on something like 1500+ dollars. He STILL has not been paid for that tournament that he flew out for and was down.

Now, I do agree however that ADHD needs to keep that **** in check, that was definitely uncalled for. They can't pay you in cash if nearly everyone paid for the tournament via online, think about it first.
That's what I thought when I first heard ADHD threatened Plank.

He took it overboard, but honestly, he has a reason to distrust it.
 

Iliad

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
1,570
Location
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
@ Adumbrodeus

No, just no.

The fact of the matter is, because this a community run tournament with no legal stipulations or bindings (because it is infact illegal to be taking place in the first place.) you cannot sue any such thing. And even if that nonsense you posted was true, then jman and m2k could sue plank for DQing them fully as opposed to simply for losers. Because Plank's reasoning was, and I quote "Because it would be unfair to the players in losers brackets who they would just breeze through".

I don't think it was stated in the rules that "If you're put into losers bracket and I feel you're too good to be in there too early, I'll DQ you to give other players a chance."

But also because there was no binding contract concerning DQing and actual rulings, anyone who is prevented from taking part in the tournament yet paid money concerning it, is entitled to and GUARANTEED the right to play. Otherwise, given no contractual evidence that there is a possibility of disqualification with no refund, the taking of money with no tendered services and refusal of repayment means PLANK IS STEALING ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

GG NO RE.
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
3,695
@ Adumbrodeus

No, just no.

The fact of the matter is, because this a community run tournament with no legal stipulations or bindings (because it is infact illegal to be taking place in the first place.)
He does have a point.

JMan is a top professional, his car not starting was obviously unintentional, and lots of money was on the line. I'm sure both Mew2King and JMan were planning on participating in the tournament, on time. Situations arise, stuff happens.

The excuse that "they would breeze through Losers' is really irrelevant and a bit redundant. I'm sure Mew2King and JMan would've breezed through Winners' bracket as well.

But, I'm not going to side. Plank had a HUGE tournament to run all by himself, and people are rude and disrespectful a lot of the time. Honestly, Canadian tournaments are not like that at all.

If ADHD really did say that to me? I would've kicked him out, screw his money. While his anger was perfectly understandable, it wasn't called for. I would've been pissed if my checks bounced, doesn't mean you need to insult someone so personally like that.

I'm sure ADHD didn't say it like -that-, maybe the statement was exaggerated. I'm not entirely sure, but I would've snapped if he talked about my girlfriend like that.

How did Plank not react? That was the mature thing to do, but I probably would've wrapped my controller wire around ADHD's neck and wrung him.

Money makes people do stupid things.

I wasn't there, and it sounded like it ran quite smoothly for such a large tournament.

But again, I somewhat agree with Iliad. Moreso than everyone else.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,322
Location
Tri-state area
@ Adumbrodeus

No, just no.

The fact of the matter is, because this a community run tournament with no legal stipulations or bindings (because it is infact illegal to be taking place in the first place.) you cannot sue any such thing. And even if that nonsense you posted was true, then jman and m2k could sue plank for DQing them fully as opposed to simply for losers. Because Plank's reasoning was, and I quote "Because it would be unfair to the players in losers brackets who they would just breeze through".

I don't think it was stated in the rules that "If you're put into losers bracket and I feel you're too good to be in there too early, I'll DQ you to give other players a chance."

But also because there was no binding contract concerning DQing and actual rulings, anyone who is prevented from taking part in the tournament yet paid money concerning it, is entitled to and GUARANTEED the right to play. Otherwise, given no contractual evidence that there is a possibility of disqualification with no refund, the taking of money with no tendered services and refusal of repayment means PLANK IS STEALING ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

GG NO RE.
There was nothing illegal about the tournament that I am aware of.


Regardless, contract law stands, and announcement of venue rules would be considered part of contract, participation in the tournament was acting upon the contract and signaled acceptance.


Legally speaking, this is the same process accepting the license to use a video game when you purchase it, by both parties acting in accordance with the contract they signal acceptance.



By acting in accordance with the contract, the parties in question signal acceptance, and the contract was binding under law.


If they considered it unjust, they should've talked to Plank and had him amend it, refusing participation until amended. If it was not amended, they would've had ground to request a refund.


But as it stands, they were in breach of contract and therefore, were not eligible to compete and not eligible to recieve refunds.




TL;DR: It is impossible to create something without legal stipulations, a paper trail is generally created that has contract-level force and at the very least, many verbal contracts are made during the course of the tournament. Like all contracts, these have the force of law, and people are legally obliged to follow them or risk punitive action.




As for sending to losers, either they were in violation of the contract or there were not, if they weren't Plank had no excuse for any action, if they were they were in breach of contract and removal was justified.
 

Plairnkk

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
Just so you guys know before you even continue arguing, it was proven Jman was just asleep and nothing was wrong with his car. Also on the way out of the hotel (past 12, altho tourney started at 10:30) they smashed alcohol bottles outside the hotel (that i got a deal for everyone for) and got seen by the desk, having to spend extra time cleaning that up making them even more late. I called the hotel to confirm this and it was true.

But if you guys wanna continue debating go for it but im done talking about it, haha. Jman tested me and got burned.

WK's team didn't get DQ'd at all cuz I had no idea they werent there, the opposing team never told me.
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
3,695
Huh.

This is why I never chose sides.

Adumbrodeus, I read somewhere it's illegal to even be hosting tournaments where videogames are used for financial profit.

Yes, both participating parties agreed, but the government isn't super-strict with that rule anyways, so no worries I suppose.
 

wraith55

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
89
I feel bad for M2K though... Sucks that JMan was late and he deserved to be DQ'd but M2K paid to be in the tourney. Also why did they get a full dq and not just dq to loser's?
Anyways, I understand Plank's point of view completely, it's definitely not easy to run a tournament, even a small one. Pound 4 was huge.
 

TP

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
3,341
Location
St. Louis, MO
Huh.

This is why I never chose sides.

Adumbrodeus, I read somewhere it's illegal to even be hosting tournaments where videogames are used for financial profit.

Yes, both participating parties agreed, but the government isn't super-strict with that rule anyways, so no worries I suppose.
You read it somewhere? Well, it's true somewhere. These tournaments are illegal in like 6 states, it's iffy in like 10, and then clearly legal in like 34.
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
3,695
I'm not even American.

But sure, not going to debate legal semantics right now.
 

SilverDoc~

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
1,261
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Wyatt wtf man, you should've made your statement more business-like instead of sounding like an egotistical madman serial killer.

Not impressed, but I see why he did it though, SNES was no walk in the park, screwed out of 1500 $, but 1500 $ alone isn't a good enough reason to say what you said bro.

The melee scene isn't going to let the brawl scene hear the end of this..
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,322
Location
Tri-state area
Adumbrodeus, I read somewhere it's illegal to even be hosting tournaments where videogames are used for financial profit.

Yes, both participating parties agreed, but the government isn't super-strict with that rule anyways, so no worries I suppose.
Online gambling is illegal, cite the specific law that makes it illegal (federally or in the state of Maryland) and I'll agree with you on that, and then and only then contract law becomes irrelevant.
 
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