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How to improve with CPUs

Red Arremer

Smash Legend
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I think almost everyone knows it. Wanting to get better, but not having any access to WiFi or real life companions to train with, then getting pwned at tournaments. All you have is the computer in Brawl, and we all know that the computer doesn't really help you get better. Or does it?

Actually, training with the computer CAN help you becoming better. Of course, not at playing opponents or matchups, since CPUs do things a normal human wouldn't do, and Level 9 CPUs read your button inputs and react to it, something your human opponents couldn't. Also, Zero Suit Samus is not available to the CPU as character. However, you can learn tactics and techniques to become better by training with computers, and here are some things you can train with them. If you have some of these things already down, you just can go on, of course.

Step 0: Main Character
Some people don't know what character to play. Try all different characters, you can do that by playing through Single Player modes and random VS battles. Once you've found a character you're comfortable with, you should stick to this character to get down the basics. Once you're over the hurdle of low-mid skill to being actually decent, you can learn basically any character. You, though, always should stick to someone you feel comfortable with - if you feel you don't get along with, say, Diddy Kong, then trying to learn him might prove to be difficult.
Never try to learn more than 1 or 2 characters in detail at once because if you do so, you will begin to lack training with your main characters, and while you would be decent with a handful, you'd not be actually good with your main. Playing other characters a bit, trying around with them and learning their basic techniques, however, will benefit you, because then you'll understand the basics of a character's gameplay and will be able to use this against an opponent who uses them.

I know that the following steps are actually contradicting this one, however, you should apply all of them to your main character once you've learned them.

Step 1: Movement & Stages
I've seen a lot of people having trouble with moving properly over the stages. Some people only play on the 3 "typical" stages Battlefield, Final Destination and Smashville. A character with great mobility such as Wario is a good choice for learning this basic strategy. Pick a stage that is legal and you don't play often on and a Level 8 CPU. Try to run away from the enemy. It's not necessary to win in this part, you have to get the "feeling" for different stages. After you know all the stages, their quirks and how they play, try a character with bad mobility, for instance Ganondorf, and do the same as before. Once you feel comfortable with all legal stages, you are done in this part, and know how different characters move.

Step 2: Recovery & Momentum Cancelling
Ah yes, recovering. Here I recommend playing characters with differently strong recoveries, for example Meta Knight with a great recovery, Ganondorf with a horrible recovery, or Wolf with a very tricky recovery that needs a lot of accuracy. This basically an extension to what Step 1 is; learning how to cancel your momentum properly (some characters need an aerial or special move, others would be better off with an airdodge, depending on the situation) and to recover with your character's options is very important and should definitely not be neglected. If you know how to keep yourself alive longer, you might be able to turn the tables!

Step 3: Dodging & Rolling
A very important part of the game is using airdodges and spotdodges, as well as rolls (at least sometimes) as they are a very central point in your defense. Good choices to getting this down are Lucario or Wario. This is very similar to what Step 1 was about, just this time, you try to avoid all hits your opponent tries to get on you. Use different stages and enemy characters to become familiar to how to dodge what move when exactly. If you have down the airdodges and spotdodges, you can go to the next part.

Step 4: Powershielding
Powershielding is shielding the very moment the enemy's attack would hit your character's body. This requires a bit of skill and knowledge about how the different characters' moves look like. It's mostly about timing. Once again, Wario is quite a good choice for this. You can also add in moving around and dodging your opponent, but should focus on actually shielding hits. This is a very important aspect of Brawl, as without powershielding, you'll be falling behind rather quickly.

Step 5: Grabbing & Shieldgrabbing
I've seen many players who actually are not used to grab. Like, at all. It seems that people don't even know that grabbing an opponent when they are in a shield actually will still give you the grab (which is called shieldgrabbing). The best character to learn how to grab propely probably is Dedede, not because of his chaingrabs but because of his great grab range and quick grab. You have to learn when to grab. You have to learn to punish a shielding enemy by grabbing them. This is a very difficult part to get down, and I see quite a few players neglecting grabs a lot. But once you know how and when to grab properly, you'll be another step up in getting better.

Step 6: Spacing
Spacing is another major aspect of the game. The best character to learn Spacing with is most likely Marth because if you space right with him, you'll be awarded (tipper). You also should try a character with a projectile like Falco, because spacing with a projectile character is very different to spacing with a character without projectile. Spacing is basically getting your opponent to be in the distance you want them to be so you can hit them but they can't hit you. Starting out in training mode to see how far the moves actually reach and then applying this knowledge into your actual game is a good way to do this.

Appendix Step A: Punishing
Learning how to punish mistakes of an enemy is important. Characters have openings after certain moves, airdodges, sidesteps, rolls, and so forth. Punishing is very important, and quite a few characters heavily rely on this. You can learn how to do this with your main, but also with a character with good punishing options such as Meta Knight. CPUs use a lot of spotdodges and rolls, so you can learn how to punish these very well.

_____

After you know how to apply these basic techniques in general, you can start using your main character. It's best to do this step by step. Maybe try to apply a strategy to your main character right after you successfully learned it.

Step 7: Advanced Techniques
Once you're secure with the basic strategies, there are important advanced strategies. Here playing a different character is useful in order to understand how they work on your opponents, however, these you should mainly learn with your main character. ATs like the DACUS/boostsmash, chaingrabs or strategies like certain combos are just as vital to your character's gameplay.
You can learn how to pull them off in training mode just like how you did with spacing, and then start to apply them in general games against CPU opponents.

"Combos":
Only train combos and hitstrings your character's boards have researched and proven to work. CPUs hardly DI and don't SDI at all, so what looks like a working combo against computers doesn't actually work with someone who knows how to DI and SDI.

_____

If you have completed these steps, there is little you actually can improve on with CPUs. The only things that can improve your gameplay are real opponents you train with, or meet in tournaments. Maybe even online play.
Keep in mind that you don't have to do this quickly. Take your time with each of these steps, and don't get angry or frustrated if you have trouble implementing the things you learned into actual matches instantly. No master was just born, and the key to becoming better is, after all, training, training and training.

I hope this helped you a bit. If you have anything to add, feel free to do so. :3
 

Nanaki

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I approve of this guide. Great read!

I know some high-end players even use the CPU to work on their games - it's easy to fit in 15 or 20 minutes of playing with CPU's and working on a particular thing than trying to only play with human opponents.

My only suggestion for the guide is to include which level of CPU's you think are ideal for each type of improvement - are lvl 3's best for learning stages? Are lvl 5's best for shielding practice?

Great job - I enjoyed it!
 

Red Arremer

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Just like with characters, you should vary the level of your CPUs. 9 is not that good, actually, because of said button input reading. 3 or 4 is good if you're starting out, but you should soon go upwards. If you reached 7 or 8, tossing in the one or other 4 or 5 now and then is good in order for you not getting too accustomed to what the higher level CPUs do.
 

Nanaki

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Just like with characters, you should vary the level of your CPUs. 9 is not that good, actually, because of said button input reading. 3 or 4 is good if you're starting out, but you should soon go upwards. If you reached 7 or 8, tossing in the one or other 4 or 5 now and then is good in order for you not getting too accustomed to what the higher level CPUs do.
Solid advice.

My only other recommendation would be to include which characters make decent training partners and which don't. For example, Luigi tends to be absurdly aggressive and competent as a CPU, while some others like Jiggs and Ice Climbers are just downright awful. Learning to space with Marth would be more effective if you're training against someone who's hard to space against, etc.

Also - practice mode, or matches?
 

Red Arremer

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I'm not sure about the characters themselves, as I haven't played CPUs for a while (I just remember Luigi being stupidly good, lol). But you're correct, they differ for characters and that's something to keep in mind as well.

As for your question, I'd say to first learn it in practice mode, and then try to implement it in matches, with the exception of Powershielding and Grabbing.
 

Red Arremer

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Level 9 is bad for reaction training because they read your button inputs and react according to that. :)

Airdodging and Grabbing is important, and I've seen so many players not using them and wondering why they wouldn't get better.
 

Meru.

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Oh, that way, I see.

I'm not saying that airdodging/rolling/spotdodging or grabbing isn't important, but it isn't good to practice with a computer. Computer don't punish an airdodge etc as well as a (little bit smart) human player. It's what makes beginners think that rolling is extremely good. And grabbing... well, let's just say it's stupidly easy to grab a cpu, whatever it's level is. Not to mention that CPU's don't have exactly good spacing.


:052:
 

Nanaki

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Level 9 is bad for reaction training because they read your button inputs and react according to that. :)

Airdodging and Grabbing is important, and I've seen so many players not using them and wondering why they wouldn't get better.
Along with this theme, punishing would be another good section. Not just moves, but airdodges and spotdodges. Knowing how to punish mistakes is key, and lvl 7/8 computers make tons of them.
 

Red Arremer

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Oh, that way, I see.

I'm not saying that airdodging/rolling/spotdodging or grabbing isn't important, but it isn't good to practice with a computer. Computer don't punish an airdodge etc as well as a (little bit smart) human player. It's what makes beginners think that rolling is extremely good. And grabbing... well, let's just say it's stupidly easy to grab a cpu, whatever it's level is. Not to mention that CPU's don't have exactly good spacing.
Ohhh, you mean it that way. Yes, that is true. A CPU will never play as well as a human, but this guide isn't written for people who know how to grab or airdodge properly. In fact, this is for beginners and somewhat decent players who still have to learn that something like airdodging and grabbing is still in the game. Believe me, I never grabbed or airdodged when I started, as well, and it took me a lot of time to realize that I needed to do so.
All those tips I gave here is what I've applied to myself. Granted, I'm still not an amazing player, but I lack training with humans for that. I'd call myself decent and if I'd train more with other players, I'd probably be even quite good.

It's more about learning when certain characters have that window where you can grab, or airdodge.

Along with this theme, punishing would be another good section. Not just moves, but airdodges and spotdodges. Knowing how to punish mistakes is key, and lvl 7/8 computers make tons of them.
You're right, punishing is indeed something that's very important to learn, and I forgot about it.
I will add it tomorrow because my migraine is kicking in again.
 

LanceStern

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Level 9 can be helpful in spacing though. They make sure you space your moves correctly or you WILL be shield-grabbed.

I really enjoyed this guide. It's simple and nails the basics down, and is easy to read. Thanks!
 

TechnoDreamer

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All CPU's read your button input. Level 9's just react in ways that make it really obvious. They still somehow suck, and will walk right into charged smashes.

But playing CPU's has definitely helped me with things that are purely techincal and not strategic. I usually just play level 3's though, since it's the default and I don't think it matters too much.

The one thing I will say is things that may seem like legit combos on level 3's may not really be, since they don't try very hard to get out of strings. So I tend to test things like that on level 9's.
 

Red Arremer

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CPUs in general hardly DI or SDI, so yea. As said, a match with a CPU is not going to aid you in terms of strategy or matchups. The term "technical" is actually quite good to describe what you can learn from computers. ;)
 

Donye

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I agree this is a quality guide.

I have been playing brawl online for a couple of weeks (if even that) and so whenever I go online I experience difficulties. Instead, I see what techniques people use such as chain grabs etc and I go offline and try them out.

Playing offline vs lvl 5/6/7 comps lets me try out my different characters (I’m getting comfortable with about 4/5 now) and I can try different stuff out.

I find myself playing for the win and doing anything possible to get the win when online. I can’t get into a rhythm needed to play competitively and I often find myself countering what opponents do with no real plan and I don’t feel as though I’m improving. However if I play offline vs comps, I can improve by concentrating on one technique and then using a range of them, without struggling as much. If I feel I am improving I can increase the difficulty, something that you can’t do online :p
 

InterimOfZeal

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My personal suggestion for fighting with comps

Set your damage to 300%
Set their damage to default
Level 9 CPU

Don't get hit exercise. Makes you practice super super SUPER safe spacing.
 
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The first problem I have with CPU training is that it's like playing the same person over and over again. You start to get into a routine of not being able to adapt. You start to realize that one particular strategy works and it's difficult to not keep applying that same strategy while in the real world the matches wouldn't turn out like that. You would be facing people who spam you with projectiles, and rolls, etc.

However, I believe that CPU 9 are extremely benefical to training if you plan to train with a CPU at all. Even though they Powershield and thus shieldgrab you with inhuman timing, this is extremely important. If you are actually trying to set-up traps or go on the offensive, the CPU will typically find a way out of it. Either through using an attack that out prioritizes your aerial assualt, or PS and punish poorly spaced attack.

This forces you to play defensively which is how the game should be played. Overly offensive playstyles are often times circumvented.
 

Red Arremer

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The first problem I have with CPU training is that it's like playing the same person over and over again. You start to get into a routine of not being able to adapt. You start to realize that one particular strategy works and it's difficult to not keep applying that same strategy while in the real world the matches wouldn't turn out like that. You would be facing people who spam you with projectiles, and rolls, etc.
Never had this problem. As long as you alternate their difficulty level and character, this shouldn't occur.
 

Nanaki

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This forces you to play defensively which is how the game should be played. Overly offensive playstyles are often times circumvented.
Overly defensive playstyles are often circumvented too.

Playing defensively isn't always the proper strategy, even in Brawl. Pitbulling is almost a necessity for some characters.
 

Magus-Cie

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Overly defensive playstyles are often circumvented too.

Playing defensively isn't always the proper strategy, even in Brawl. Pitbulling is almost a necessity for some characters.
And in said case like Ganondorf it is still a defensive pitbulling since it relies on approaching with powershielding.

But with momentum based characters (i.e. Diddy) this would be a bad way to practice.

Just really varies character to character.
 

swordgard

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Level 9 is bad for reaction training because they read your button inputs and react according to that. :)

Airdodging and Grabbing is important, and I've seen so many players not using them and wondering why they wouldn't get better.


Airdodging actually is one of the worst things one can do in a lot of cases >.>
 

Kishin

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I keep a notepad document on a list of things to improve on for a certain character and I skim through it before each match. It works wonders.
 

Red Arremer

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Airdodging actually is one of the worst things one can do in a lot of cases >.>
Ehhh... sometimes it's bad. It depends on character, actually. Spamming it, of course, is bad, just like spamming anything is bad.

Also, joel...you should put:
That CPU's somewhat teach "the player" how to punish Side Steps and Rolls...since CPUs spam those 2.
Good idea, thank you. :)
 

6Mizu

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Also, joel...you should put:
That CPU's somewhat teach "the player" how to punish Side Steps and Rolls...since CPUs spam those 2.
Ehhh... sometimes it's bad. It depends on character, actually. Spamming it, of course, is bad, just like spamming anything is bad.



Good idea, thank you. :)
No prob. You gonna add it? :confused:
 

wowoduend

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CPUs in general hardly DI or SDI, so yea. As said, a match with a CPU is not going to aid you in terms of strategy or matchups. The term "technical" is actually quite good to describe what you can learn from computers. ;)
CPUs can do what humans can do, but there are things that CPUs cannot do. I don't know if CPUs are actually good training partners if you are going to fight against Smash pros.
 

Red Arremer

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Uhm... that's exactly what I said in the text in the OP?

Also keep in mind that Mew2King usually uses CPUs to train.
 

Laem

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I approve.

Personally, i see the cpu as just another 'human' opponent, with the mindset of The more different people/styles you play against, the better you become.
 

6Mizu

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Sword is right, yet people still do it. >.>

Also, joel...you should put:
That CPU's somewhat teach "the player" how to punish Side Steps and Rolls...since CPUs spam those 2.
Ehhh... sometimes it's bad. It depends on character, actually. Spamming it, of course, is bad, just like spamming anything is bad.



Good idea, thank you. :)
No prob. You gonna add it? :confused:
Yes, I will make an update during the weekend, I suppose. I'm tired as its 2 AM here. :>
Wait where do you live?
(I don't know what AT is) :p

Also, don't forget.
Austria.

He won't forget.
Nanaki speaks truths.
Am I allowed to ask:
"May I be credited for this?" :)
 
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