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Match-Up Export #8: Wario | In-depth Discussion

C

Code Lyon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
380
Location
Kennesaw, GA
Match-Up Export
Fox vs. Wario​


________________________________

Things to keep in mind while discussing!
Code: 
* Keep a proper wording, 
don't insult or yell at the other people discussing inside of this thread. 
Although that shouldn't even be mentioned, I've seen it happen.

* Match-Up ratios are fairly subjective. 
However, please don't overrate or underestimate a character. 
Stuff like "lol, X can't do anything, RAEP!" is not going to aid us in our discussion.

* Don't theorycraft too much. 
Keep in mind that while Fox or the character we're discussing in this thread
are able to do a certain move at a certain time, don't just throw this out, 
but rather think if this is actually practical and used by good players of these characters.

* If you are new to the discussion, please don't state trivial things.
Best would be to read the discussion properly, 
or at least the first and last few pages should the thread go on for a while already. 
Saying "Fox can reflect all of X's projectiles." might be true, 
but probably has already been mentioned.

* Discussions will be held for about 2 weeks - unless the need of expanding is felt.
The first week will bring a temporary ratio that then will corrected during the second.
With this in mind, we shall start the discussion!

________________________________

:wario: WARIO THE PIMP :wario:​



KEY POINTS

Advantages


Disadvantages


Summary


IN-DEPTH DISCUSSION
Strategy & Match-Up Mentality

Aerial Game:
Ground Game:
Approach:
Defense:
Camping Game:
Edge Game:
Surviving:
Killing:
Frame Data:

Stages
Stage Striking
* Possible Fox Strikes
* Possible Wario Strikes
* To Be Classified:
Code: 
Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), 
[COLOR="Yellow"]Castle Siege, Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Pokémon Stadium 1[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]Yellow indicates a stage that is not commonly a starter, but possible. 
Neither player should depend on these[/COLOR]
Stage Banning
* Possible Fox Bans
* Possible Wario Bans
* To Be Classified:
Code: 
Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), 
Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Pokémon Stadium 1, Brinstar, 
Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Pictochat, Pirate Ship, Pokémon Stadium 2, 
Rainbow Cruise, [COLOR="Yellow"]Yoshi's Island (Pipes), Green Greens, Port Town Aero Dive, 
Distant Planet, Luigi's Mansion, Norfair[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]Yellow indicates a stage that is not commonly legal, but possible. 
Neither player should depend on these[/COLOR]
Stage Counterpicks
* Possible Fox Counterpicks
* Possible Wario Counterpicks
* To Be Classified:
Code: 
Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi's Island (Brawl), 
Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Pokémon Stadium 1, Brinstar, 
Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Pictochat, Pirate Ship, Pokémon Stadium 2, 
Rainbow Cruise, [COLOR="Yellow"]Yoshi's Island (Pipes), Green Greens, Port Town Aero Dive, 
Distant Planet, Luigi's Mansion, Norfair[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]Yellow indicates a stage that is not commonly legal, but possible. 
Neither player should depend on these[/COLOR]
Possible Secondaries


Videos & Other Outside Resources

VERDICT :fox: ??:?? :wario:


MATCH-UP DISCUSSION GO!​
 
Juno McGrath

Juno McGrath

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
8,240
Location
Raleigh, NC.
if the wario is aggressive. then sure, 50-50 i guess. but if the wario plays campy or smart. its no contest fox just isnt fast enough to keep up i mean, if he nairs a lot that would be his best bet. but wario can Almost bite anything fox throws at him due to fox's low priority, in the air, its all wario, on the ground, eh. its probally still wario.
 
C

Code Lyon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
380
Location
Kennesaw, GA
Fair is Fox's best option against Wario's Aerials since they have some sort of range.

Lasers my friend.

Also Snapple all MUs are assumed to at high-level so saying playing smart is viable >.<
 
Juno McGrath

Juno McGrath

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
8,240
Location
Raleigh, NC.
lol if hes on the ground then yes. go for it. if hes in the air just keep shooting lasers. when i play duo, and wind the two foxes im familiar with, i want them to chase me. when they do, the use one of fox's ****ty areils and get ****ed up
 
A

Asce

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
89
Location
Uniondale, NY (Nassau, Long Island)
SHTL will force Warios Approach and then we can punish from there. His aerial mobility is something to watch out for but in overall speed fox is faster in attacking and punishing. Laser is the way to go.
 
PhantomX

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
We have a bike to put in front of you that will block your grounded lasers and take you literally an hour to break, meanwhile we're charging our fart to kill you at 60... have fun with your SHTL. It doesn't help that most of your best moves are also multihit and thus SDIable (especially fair).
 
C

Code Lyon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
380
Location
Kennesaw, GA
Well it looks like is the person with the percent lead is gonna force the approach since the other can't force either into an approach without being call for stalling.
 
C

Code Lyon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
380
Location
Kennesaw, GA
Going into detail would be nice like what we doing before....
like let's talk about the air game or the ground game because I can't write a summary or even a decent adv. and disadv. if we just come to a verdict without some kind of discussion. This is the point of this thread.
 
Juno McGrath

Juno McGrath

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
8,240
Location
Raleigh, NC.
dynomite said:
Wario ***** fox in the air.
upair goes through fox's downair.
Dair goes through fox's side B (if on top of fox)
watch for rushed up smashes, it might take you by surprise.
Fox's fair is used to bait a lot, i personally wouldnt choose to punish it because they normally land with no lag.

Not one of our hardest matchups but can get annoying sometimes.
60/40
Click to expand...
Humpy Thrashabout said:
60:40 sounds right.
Click to expand...
PhantomX said:
Yeah, 60:40. He really only has uptilt on us as a consistent/semi safe weapon. Usmash being his only early killer also makes it easy to predict/avoid. Still can be a nuisance though, and isn't as easy to gimp as we would like, so be careful.
Click to expand...

its already been done.
 
C

Code Lyon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
380
Location
Kennesaw, GA
Wow when did Dyno get here >.<

I take back what I said.....

What stages would a Wario ban and where would you guys take us?
 
Juno McGrath

Juno McGrath

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
8,240
Location
Raleigh, NC.
okay you should ban rainbow or brinstar, whichever you like the least.

i would say rainbow because it can really screw fox.

recovering id say trust you phantasm. wario has got all the time in the world to jump under the ledge and waft you if you fire.

if your trying to stop wario from getting back to the stage... shining him off the bike is PROBABLY the best bet, dont quote me on that. back air might be a little better
 
Lightning93

Lightning93

Smash Champion
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
2,793
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, California
This MU discussion isn't over yet lol, I'll wait for some more Wario mains to respond. I've fought several notable Wario players on the WC, one power ranked. 60:40 may sound reasonable, but I'm not fully convinced.

SHTL really wrecks Wario imo. First of all, Wario doesn't want to approach, as Fair can counter anything he's got approaching from the side. The whole bike as shield thing seems sort of gimmicky... I shouldn't force you guys to prove it works to me but it would help to see it in action...
 
Virgman

Virgman

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
133
Location
Winter Park (Orlando), FL
Wario may have a lot more priority than Fox, but that doesn't mean he can just take advantage of Fox and leave him helpless. As said before, LC pressures Wario into approaching. If there are Warios who wouldn't approach a lasering Fox, I would love to see how they would pull it off effectively without taking damage. Wario has a really strong pressure game, like using SH dair then Di'ing backwards. He is also great at spacing. But Fox's fair can punish the dair just as easily. And if Fox shields the dair, he can punish warios retreat with dash attack (which is good for punishing moves a lot of characters cannot punish). Fair can also go through wario's bite and fair happens to be a great spacing and pressuring tech for Fox, especially if it's lagless capabilities are utilized. The main thing I've learned to watch out for is wario's fart. It's crazy strong and often comes out of nowhere. In order to mitigate this problem, I'd say watch the time and when the fart is ready, be extra cautious. Stay campy with Fox in order to keep the pressure and damage on wario. Forcing detrement on wario's spacing will give Fox more control and, in turn, an advantage.
 
Horrible Rape

Horrible Rape

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
4
the matchup is definitely 6 to 4 with fox winning. u just need to play it right and when he farts, airdodge and punish him.
 
C.R.Z

C.R.Z

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
London
yes wario has prority, but fox is just too fast lol. seems stupid to point it out but it matters ALOT.from what ive seen camping isnt an issue. fox's lazer camping beats wario's air camping..thing.so theres not much reason to discuss that.wario is heavy so lots of fox's string work with little effort. can kill wario very quickly. im pretty sure wario's dair can be daired by fox even if fox does decide to approach. nair leads to strings, bair kills, Dair does both, Upair kills, fair does both. all of fox's aerials can be used against wario and with the use of his auto cancels fox can be played much faster then wario can ever hope to. the only problem fox has is with wario's up air, Fsmash, chain grab and waft.the rest arnt really much of a problem. btw boost pivot grab ***** wario, especially into grab release.im pretty sure he has an infinite (unless hes too short) in which case pummel mind games will get the grab release.

id say this is 50/50 due to prority, if not then 55/45 or 60/40 in fox's favour.
 
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