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Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

sagemoon

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its worse than the meta matchup, the thing is, theres better metaknights out there than there are GWs

edit: Also if its legal wherever you are, hanenbow is a good cp against GW
 

_Phloat_

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Out of curiosity, what would Pit have over Game And Watch at Hanenbow? Plat forms are great for GaW... And being able to maneuver them couldn't hurt.

GaW's recovery would still be amazing, although pit's doesn't lose much from the stage it makes keyspikes and fairs veerrry safe offstage, If I fair from the top, even FFed, I can up-b to the bottom with no trouble...

What about HB helps pit more than it helps GaW?
 

sagemoon

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high ceilings, the platforms help out pit more so, it nurfs the effect of GWs bair as it will hit the stage and mess up spacing. Also depending on the percentages theres different parts of the stage to lure the battle into. GW isnt forced to follow pit unless hes behind in percents, but usually the players follow anyways. pits uair becomes really hard to punish because of how it affects the stage. Overall it gives pit an advantage, but not a huge advantage. But most other stages give the advantage to GW so its one of the few cps that you can use. GWs recovery is not going to be gimped no matter what stage it is (unless they're dumb and get gimped at japes?) so trying to nurf his recovery w/ a counterpick is a waste.

edit: Yes KY it did help me against valdens, but i didnt win the match.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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If a Pit took me to Hanenbow (a horrible level no one should ever play, by the way), I'd just play really stallishly and spam the fishbowl/bucket. Stages that let you approach from below are way too good for Mr. Game & Watch; fishbowl approaches are too much! The key is also really good on Hanenbow; that's a plus. Anyway, the "follow anyways" is silly; every character has a huge advantage on Hanenbow/75m if the opponent is so silly as to chase you anywhere. On that note, if you are picking from stages that should be banned, just pick Flat Zone 2; that stage will help Pit tons against Mr. Game & Watch if you just camp the walk-offs and use your arrows in tandem with the hazards.

Mr. Game & Watch really does have a clear advantage on Pit, but if he has to counterpick, he can do better. Frigate Orpheon seems like it would be a good Pit pick here with a generally friendly arrow layout, some hope of Mr. Game & Watch not recovering to the missing ledge, and those fun temporary platforms. I wouldn't advise it, but I can also see someone making a case for Jungle Japes for Pit. Final Destination and PictoChat are also probably pretty good Pit choices; I think he loses on every stage, but these seem like his best picks to me. Oh yeah, if you get Mario Circuit as Pit, that would be amazing in this matchup; that course makes it way too easy to be spammish and to abuse the fact that your throws are better than Mr. Game & Watch's near the walk-off.

So, in conclusion, I suggest Mario Circuit first if you can get it, Frigate Orpheon/Final Destination/PictoChat as second tier choices depending on rules and personal preference, and maybe Jungle Japes for consideration though I'm really doubtful about its worth for Pit.
 

A2ZOMG

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Metaknight can't clash with Pit's arrows unless he uses Tornado/Glide Attack. That alone makes MK vs Pit not as bad for Pit as opposed to G&W vs Pit.

Just saying.
 

cutter

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Metaknight can't clash with Pit's arrows unless he uses Tornado/Glide Attack. That alone makes MK vs Pit not as bad for Pit as opposed to G&W vs Pit.

Just saying.
True, but once Meta gets inside Pit's arrows and starts pressuring Pit is in trouble.

For GW/Pit, I agree this is a solid 65/35 or 70/30 assuming it's a neutral stage. GW's magnetic properties of his bucket really liimit Pit's arrow looping and his arrows in general. Pit also struggles a lot against GW's Bair; he has to either roll away, SDI to a punish attempt, or reflect it with his down B.
 

omegablackmage

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Pit: (65/35)

General Matchup:
  • Pit is probably one of the best campers in the game, right up their with falco and snake. Arrows, two reflecting moves, multiple jumps, fairly long recovery, all these add up to a great camping character.
  • Pit has good priority, but lacks range in a lot of areas. Most of his attacks are short to medium ranged, exceptions being maybe ftilt and the upsmash, and most don't have the priority to back it up, except maybe the fsmash or up air. (against gw at least)
  • Pits major kill moves are his fsmash, bair, glide attack, and dsmash. The smashes are pretty fast, but the bair can be a bit slow at times and somewhat telegraphed (the glide attack should be telegraphed too lol). Watch out for the smashes out of shield.
  • Pits edgeguarding against gw will be to spam arrows, if they think you won't bucket them. I would off the stage (you should be bucket braking anyway), since its hard to punish for them. Anything offstage for them other than that would be risky for them so you probably won't see it too often.
  • To edgeguard pit, i would probably throw bacon out, and then throw fairs or up b's their way to force them to use more jumps. If you can get them in their up b, your in good shape, they will make a desperate move to the edge, try and predict this. When they glide above you, make use of your up air, and if they try to glide attack you, bair through it.
  • Pits combos aren't all that amazing. He can only forward throw chain you once at 0, so that isn't too much trouble. Watch out for nairs that can quickly cancel from short hops into smashes. Also uptilt comes out surprisingly fast (3 frames!) so watch out for that.
  • Pit has an average buffered roll, but an above average tech roll. So if your opponent knows how to tech consistently you might want to opt for upthrowing depending on how good your tech chase skills are. Nairs work well, he has an average sized body. Up air'ing is alright against pit, gliding can help him get out of this however, so you have to be persistent.

General Strategies:
  • If you keep your range, you will do very well in this matchup. Bair, fair, and dtilt outrange just about everything pit can throw at you (save glide attack, i think you need bair for this), including his smashes iirc. Key will beat his up air and up air will beat his dair (puffing).
  • When they start arrow spamming, start bucketing. Now this isn't always the best idea, if they are right next to you, they're gunna be able to land a smash if you bucket, so use discretion. They usually only spam when they are far away or your off the edge, so go ahead and bucket in most situations.
  • Without arrows and range they loose a lot of footing in this matchup. Their recovery lacks, and their kill moves are quick, but not terribly strong. If you have a grasp on bucket braking, then you should find them getting very frustrated making any progress in the match.

Stages:
  • Stay away from norfair if on, its only going to help their recovery. I would go for shallow ceilings in this case, their air ko's aren't amazing, so corneria if possible, otherwise, rc, delphino, halberd work too.
  • Neutrals work just fine in your favor too, I imagine that yoshi's island would hurt them, given they can't go under the stage, and i would say that their camping under the platform would hurt you, but bucketing remedies that.
 

A2ZOMG

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vs Ganondorf.

You know me. I'm convinced it's 6/4 G&W's favor. His worst matchup with low tiers by far.

Ganondorf has more range on you with a few attacks like F-smash, Dash attack, F-air, D-tilt, U-air, F-tilt. If you mess up your spacing against him, and he is aware of this fact, you risk getting punished severely. His up-angled F-smash (which is disjointed) can kill you at something crazy like 60-70%. And it's not hard for him to get you to that level of damage when you consider the COMBOS he has on lightweights.

Spacing well is especially critical against him because if he lands a D-air on you at low percents, it has enough hitstun to combo into other attacks like his aerials, or even his F-smash or U-smash or another D-air. He can take you from 0-60 very quickly if he simply reads you right from landing a D-air (not forgetting his F-smash kills you at about 60-70%). Also, his Flame Choke is unblockable, and combos into his Jab, F-tilt, and D-tilt, the last two which can kill you at about 110% fresh. His Dash attack kills you at around 90% fresh and can be very difficult to challenge on reaction especially since it is disjointed and comes out so fast.

D-tilt is good in this matchup, but don't spam it mindlessly. Ganon's D-tilt outprioritizes it.

Basically, space really well in this matchup. When he goes offstage, be wary of the occasional Ganoncide, and edgeguard him with F-airs or D-airs. When juggling him, be aware his Wizard's Foot can kill you at about 80% if fresh.
 

A2ZOMG

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You can't avoid it if the Ganondorf knows how to buffer HIS attacks. Basically Flame Choke -> F-tilt and D-tilt is a TRUE combo. If it wasn't, then G&W vs Ganondorf would be 65/35 G&W.

Always DI towards Ganondorf when he does Flame Chokes so that you land next to him. Ganondorf usually sweetspots his attacks at the longest range possible (I can't remember for D-tilt or F-tilt, but this is definitely true for the Jab). Also, DIing towards him avoids the Flame Choke -> Dash attack COMBO, which kills you at like 80-90% when fresh so yeah.
 

Collective of Bears

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I would agree that his matchup vs Ganondorf isn't as spectacularly good as most low-tiers, but I'm still leaning toward 65:35. Even though Ganny has some sick comboes, G&W can smack him silly in the air and can can also gimp his recovery pretty well.
 

A2ZOMG

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I would agree that his matchup vs Ganondorf isn't as spectacularly good as most low-tiers, but I'm still leaning toward 65:35. Even though Ganny has some sick comboes, G&W can smack him silly in the air and can can also gimp his recovery pretty well.
Yeah, you can juggle Ganon a lot. His recovery is easily intercepted with well timed F-airs and D-airs. I don't deny that.

The problem in this matchup is that Ganondorf actually outranges you. If you give him breathing room, and if he reads an approach and reacts fast enough, he can and will punish it with a F-air, and that kills you at like 80-90% if it is fresh. His F-smash, F-tilt, D-tilt, and U-air are other attacks that beat you in terms of raw range. A good Ganondorf is more than willing to trade hits with G&W if he has an opportunity to. Blow for blow, Ganondorf survives to higher percents.

All in all G&W actually has to work in this matchup to avoid dying early. In short, G&W doesn't want to get hit at all. And he can definitely avoid being hit, but if he makes a mistake, Ganon has all the tools he needs to kill G&W swiftly.
 

Collective of Bears

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Yeah, you can juggle Ganon a lot. His recovery is easily intercepted with well timed F-airs and D-airs. I don't deny that.

The problem in this matchup is that Ganondorf actually outranges you. If you give him breathing room, and if he reads an approach and reacts fast enough, he can and will punish it with a F-air, and that kills you at like 80-90% if it is fresh. His F-smash, F-tilt, D-tilt, and U-air are other attacks that beat you in terms of raw range. A good Ganondorf is more than willing to trade hits with G&W if he has an opportunity to. Blow for blow, Ganondorf survives to higher percents.

All in all G&W actually has to work in this matchup to avoid dying early. In short, G&W doesn't want to get hit at all. And he can definitely avoid being hit, but if he makes a mistake, Ganon has all the tools he needs to kill G&W swiftly.
True, true.

I just checked in with the Ganondorf boards, and they settled on 60:40 our favor.
 

K 2

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I don't think this is a tough matchup, but you have to be extremely careful with your spacing. Ganon can punish your mistakes like crazy.

I believe G&W can duck under his ftilt (Can ftilt be angled?)

Watch out for the flame choke suicide when you go out to edgeguard him. Its always barrels of laughs when people die that way.
 

Ray_Kalm

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No FTilt can't be angled, I'm not sure about G&W's duck.

G&W is by far the easiest for us to face out of the top tiers. But, that doesn't mean that Ganon shouldn't play as defensive as he normally would, it's just easier. You'll never see us approaching, only punishing your mistakes and tricking you into attacks. Gerudo to DTilt racks good damage, F-Smash KOes you around 65% or less.
 

A2ZOMG

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G&W can duck under Ganondorf's Jab, F-tilt, Wizkick, and standing grab as far as I recall. I probably don't need to explain what G&W's duck does when going against Ganon's air game.

But still, you can't just duck all the time and D-tilt camp because Ganon can walk up and outprioritize your D-tilt with his own.

Yeah, we should do Bowser next. Bowser btw is underrated. IMO he's better than DK, the other popular big guy aside from DDD.
 

_Phloat_

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Does he have any really good grab release stuff against us? I know he can grab release -> u-air jigglypuff, which kills pretty early on her b/c her weight.

Can he do that to us o_0?
 

Neb

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Yeah, Bowser is seriously underrated.
I can see him skipping into high tier next year.

@Phloat
I'm pretty sure he can.
He has 10 free frames to do anything he wants with use before we can even react.

AIR RELEASE

Mr. Game&Watch *

Grab release overb
Grab release fair
GROUND RELEASE

Mr. Game&Watch**

Grab release regrab
Grab release overb
Grab release ftilt
Grab release jab
 

A2ZOMG

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Yeah see, the thing about Bowser. Unlike many characters, Bowser actually has things that are broken, which is a quality you want in SOMETHING if you are aiming to be a good character. Things such as his grab release options, a grab that can be used in the air, and amazing out of shield options that can kill. A character like DK? Not really so much.
 

_Phloat_

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So, if we get grabbed we are gonna get punished... If we ground break we are gonna wait a little, then get punished.

How useful is Fortress out of shield? I don't know the range it has, I know it is fast and strong but is it a threat to GaW if we space well?

How can he deal with the turtle? The Nair? How well does he kill, how well do we kill him? Imma go fetch the boozers.
 

Neb

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So, if we get grabbed we are gonna get punished... If we ground break we are gonna wait a little, then get punished.

How useful is Fortress out of shield? I don't know the range it has, I know it is fast and strong but is it a threat to GaW if we space well?

How can he deal with the turtle? The Nair? How well does he kill, how well do we kill him? Imma go fetch the boozers.
Spaced bair against Fortress can be punished, but it isn't safe. Bowser wants to hurl you out, and retreat back into neutral state as quick, and as painless as possible. If he goes out of the way to hit G&W, he'll eat backlash quickly following after, especially at early percentages.

Fortress beats turtle, it has invincibility on the first 5 frames. He'll Upb all your aerials if he can. But its probably a rare occurrence since Bowser out-ranges us, his reach rivals that of Marth's. He's all hurtbox, though, which means we can space at tips.

We kill him at reasonable percentages, just not as early as the majority of our match-ups.
While he'll kill us off before we hit hundreds, without DI that is.
 

_Phloat_

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Does he suffer the same as DK from chef?

From the limited bowser knowledge I have, I think that he relies completely on fairs to break the "nuetral" stage. They have to be executed fairly early from the ground to be autocanceled, so bacon could really muck that up.

Combined with GaW's super low crouch, we have a character that might not approach to well against us.

His defence is good though, unfortunately.

I made a topic on the bowser forums, they should be flocking over here. Maybe sliq will help?
 

Neb

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lol, Phloiat, we haven't even got the okay from OBM.
Also, Bowser doesn't want to approach in most cases.
 

_Phloat_

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I doubt he will shoot it down, we have already started discussing.

Sorry, I thought we had the OK though, or at least it was guaranteed to be ok'ed.

Yea, but I don't think we have a reason to approach bowser =].
 

Neb

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Yeah, it pretty much goes back to what I said in the G&WBR.
Most of our range issues can be solved if we don't approach at all.

But the way I see it, we're somewhat less effective when at prolonged defense.
 

_Phloat_

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1) We do not talk about the G&WBR.

2) We DO NOT TALK about the G&WBR.

!!!!!

But really, what makes camping less effective as time progresses? The way I see it, the only thing that causes that is boredom and human error, so as long as we are waiting there is nothing actually pushing us forward, just our own nature. So if we are patient, and apply good bacon pressure, in theory they have to attack...
 

Neb

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1) LOL

2) The vast (lol) majority of the G&W community makes up the BR, so I don't see the problem, heheh.

Well that, and damage build is a bit more tedious.
G&W's camp game is still premature, we haven't really discussed it at all.

But to answer your other question, chef is okay, but he has fire-breath and fortress at his disposal. Which is all punishable, somewhat of a petty point, :/. G&W's Camp Game - Chef, Dtilt, Ftilt, Ledgecamp, (Walls?)...>_>
 

omegablackmage

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ya i was thinking of doing bowser next anyway, so i'll write up the ganon summary soon, although there is a lack of input on it (maybe there isn't much to discuss). So i think the upcoming order is bowser, luigi, link, yoshi, zelda/sheik, samus, pkmn trainer, fox, mario, lucas, sonic, captain falcon, and jiggz, which would take us to the end (i think those are in order from worst to best, roughly). After we're done we'll start revisiting some.
 

Ruuku

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1) We do not talk about the G&WBR.

2) We DO NOT TALK about the G&WBR.

!!!!!

But really, what makes camping less effective as time progresses? The way I see it, the only thing that causes that is boredom and human error, so as long as we are waiting there is nothing actually pushing us forward, just our own nature. So if we are patient, and apply good bacon pressure, in theory they have to attack...
Man, I have a lot of camping tricks with G&W. I'll make a post tomorrow about it. LOL
 

_Phloat_

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I don't know if that belongs here, the BR, or in a new thread. I mean, there aren't any groundbreaking tactics or new information, just application, so a thread would die fast. Something that changes matchups shouldn't be kept private.. but this thread isn't about GaW tactics.

I would suggest a new thread, the boards are zombie'd anyway.
 

omegablackmage

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Ganondorf: (60/40)

General Matchup:
  • Ganon is one of the best punishment characters in the game. All of his hits hit strong, and hurt alot.
  • Most heavy characters are equipped with a good amount of range, ganon being no exception. Dtilt, ftilt, jab, dair, fair, and smashes all have pretty decent range. His priority lacks a bit, dtilt/fsmash/fair being the only moves of his that will actually be able to outrange/prioritize anything you have, and even those are rather situational.
  • Ganon's kill moves, where do i begin? If its not his jab, nair, or side b, you can assume it will kill you before 100% if fresh, and even then watch out for the moves i listed. You have to be on your toes constantly against ganon.
  • Ganon might have one of the worst recoveries in the game next to link. Simple interruptions with fair/nair will push him far enough usually to get the kill. The only thing you really need to watch for is if he side b's in an attempt to take you down with him.
  • Ganon will probably want to avoid going off the stage after you, unless he REALLY thinks he can land a spike for some reason, don't expect it too often.
  • Ganon has a fair amount of devastating combos to look out for. Side b will combo into a jab/dtilt/ftilt, racking up some nice damage for him. Dair autocancelled to up air works at low percents, dair to dair works, dair to upsmash sometimes even. If he lands a dair to up air, and then manages to get you with a side b to dtilt, an fsmash will kill you. Don't be surprised if ganon only needs to land 5 moves to kill you.
  • Ganon has a terrible tech roll, and a decent buffer roll. If they start to buffer rolls to avoid your tech chasing, then jab them when they land to a regrab, otherwise his rolls shouldn't be too hard to chase. When in the air, he has poor movement, up throws to up air chases should work pretty well, dair is slow, so you should see it coming and move to the side if you need to nair. Nair autocancels well against tall characters, so nair - up tilt - nair - nair - fair will rack up a good amount of damage at most percents for ganon.

General Strategies:
  • Most of his game will be based off of punishing your mistakes. If you are constantly aware of your spacing, and watch out for his side b's you should be able to get out of entire stocks unscathed. The only reason this match is a 6/4 is because of how badly he can punish you.
  • The mentality you want to keep in this matchup is to avoid trading hits with ganon. If you trade too many hits, you will lose because he can ko you at half the percent you need him at to die.
  • When edgeguarding, weak fairs work amazingly to push him out, most often you can get two of these out for a guaranteed gimp. Slow dairs will also help too.
  • This matchup is pretty simple, no specific techniques will help you out. He will be looking to punish your attacks and if you dont' give him a chance to, you will win hands down. Keep your spacing tight, and you should do fine.

Stages:
  • Ganon does terrible on most stages. RC, frigate, norfair, brinstar, jungle japes all would probably work well against ganon. Anything that forces him to recover, cuz he lacks very badly in that department.
  • I would avoid low ceiling stages, like halberd or corneria i suppose. For a neutral i would probably avoid fd or smashville, keep the stage cramped if at all possible.
 

A2ZOMG

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Norfair and Brinstar are both stages you do not want to take Ganondorf to. Brinstar is a small stage with a low ceiling. The lava saves Ganondorf's recovery on both stages. Norfair in general is hard to edgeguard on. ALSO, Ganondorf can get free KOs on characters by doing a SideB while the lava is rising. He will spike you through the lava, but the lava will save him.

Vs Bowser.

6/4 - 65/35 G&W.

Sliq has done impressively well against NoJ, so I dunno. But honestly G&W is simply much better at punishing Bowser than the other way around if you ask me.

If Bowser's shield is not full, it is very easy to shield poke him. B-air beats out any form of offense Bowser likes as long as you pulled it out before he pulled out another attack. If his shield is full, beware as his Up-B has invul frames and will beat it out.

Fullhop F-airs are good on Bowser's shield if you space them right. If you space them wrong, Bowser can F-air out of shield to punish you, but spaced right, he should be pushed back far enough for you to remain safe. This is especially good if this knocks him off the ledge of course. F-airs are not hard to land in this matchup, and are useful for either KOing Bowser or getting him offstage.

Smashes are completely safe on block and thus are very useful against Bowser, who puts a lot on his out of shield game. Bowser also has a horrible techroll. Take advantage of this when you get a grab. Both D-throw and U-throw are very good against Bowser. U-throw leads to juggles. D-throw leads to techchase madness that can be punished reliably as long as you're good at reading and reacting.

When Bowser is in the air, he has two options he is aiming for. Forward B and hope the grab armor beats out one of your aerials, or sweetspot the ledge with Bowser Bomb. Keep up the pressure to make it difficult for Bowser to space Forward Bs. If he's going for the ledge with Bowser Bomb, you can D-tilt, N-air, B-air, or F-air him out of it reliably. Just don't get hit by it of course.

Bucketing Firebreath is useful in giving you a fast potential kill move that outranges Bowser. Make sure you don't get your approaches ***** by Firebreath.

D-tilt is very good on Bowser as he has very few options that can directly counter it. Of course, be wary of the fact he has attacks that outrange it like Ganon does, but if he's in the air, he can't do much about it.

Offstage, keep intercepting his recovery with F-airs and D-airs. This will do pretty good damage to him and eventually you can get some KOs this way too.
 

MrEh

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Okay, I'm just popping in from the Bowser boards to give some input. I hope you guys hear me out. Here comes the massive wall of text! :p


I can imagine that some people believe that the matchup is something like 70-30 in Game and Watch's favor. His advantages over Bowser sound pretty solid on paper. He's freakishly strong, he has fast attacks, lots of range, lots of priority, he's near ungimpable, and the turtle totally *****. How can Bowser, a character that many people don't even take seriously, compare to that?

First of all, I'll say this about Bowser. He's a turtle, pun intended. Most Bowser players literally live inside of their shields. Spot dodging and rolling is not something that Bowser players do on reflex, but shielding is. Shielding for Bowser is like spot dodging for ROB, that's how much Bowser needs the thing. Bower also deserves some credit for having the biggest shield in the game, meaning that he can actually absorb things like Turtles fairly easily without getting stabbed. Hell, he can even absorb Nados with the thing.

This is a matchup where you need to space well. If you do not space well, you will lose, simply because Bowser punishes improperly spaced attacks with such incredible ferocity. Improperly spaced Turtles and Fairs will be met with a Fortress OoS, which is one of Bowser's most well known tricks. The Fortress is by far, one of the best special moves in the game, and for good reason. It comes out fast, since the hitbox appears on frame 6. You can't hit Bowser during the startup time either since the Fortress has invincibility frames on frames 1-5. That makes the Fortress an ideal countering move for nearly any improperly spaces move. If the Fortress hits close to Game and Watch, it'll do upwards of 15 damage, and knock you away from Bowser. It's important to note that at higher percentages, the Fortress can be used a a surprise killing move if you're not careful. While it's killing power is still inferior to it's Melee counterpart, it's still a viable killing move out of a shield. To put it simply, if you're above 95%, make sure you choose your attacks carefully, otherwise it might spell death for you. Make sure you space your turtles and Fairs well, otherwise this fight will be very annoying.

Like I said before, you must space properly to avoid the Fortress. However, even if you land outside of the Fortress's range, still has ways to reach you. His Jabs come out as fast as the Fortress does, and they have as much range as hit Ftilt. Even if you land outside of Fortress range, Bowser can still start jabbing like a madman and possibly reach you with it. Another attack that can be used this way is the Klaw, which is one of Bowser's best attacks. As you probably know, the Klaw is a grab, but it's comes out fast (8 frames) and it has very deceptive range. It has the ability to kill, but mostly it's used for damage. Doing 18% a pop is pretty deadly, especially if you're light like Game and Watch. Which is why I say again, spacing helps this matchup from being super frustrating.

For the third paragraph now, I'll say it again. Space well. If you're using the Turtle or Fair, they try to hit him with the end of it. In fact, it would be best to stay as far away from Bowser as possible in this matchup. Bowser's fast ground game combined with his OoS tricks really screws Game and Watch up if you try the direct approach. (Which you shouldn't be doing anyway, because you're Game and Watch. :p) Make sure you try and time your aerials to reduce their ending lag as much as possible. A mistimed Fair means enough lag for Bowser to get one of his Dash Grabs in. While Bowser will have difficulty grabbing a competent Game and Watch, you still must be careful to avoid Bowser's grab as much as possible. It's not Bowser's throws that you should be worried about, since he lacks anything deadly like Game and Watch's Dthrow. However, Bowser has another trick up his sleeve; grab releases.

As many people now know, Bowser totally ***** out of a grab. That's because due to some bizarre programming oversight, Bowser recovers from grabbing 10 frames quicker then everyone else. That means that Bowser gets 10 free frames to do whatever he wants to Game and Watch if you get released on the ground. This sucks, a lot. If you get released on the ground, Bowser can keep grabbing you again, and there's no way to escape if Bowser's timing is perfect. Bowser can essentially pummel Game and Watch for quite a bit of damage this way, which is why you should try to jump out of Bowser's grab as soon as possible. However, it's a bad situation either way. You see, if you get a jump release on Bowser, Bowser can abuse those 10 free frames even more.

When you get a jump release, Game and Watch will suffer 50 frames of immobility, while Bowser will only suffer 20. That means that Bowser has half a second to attack Game and Watch while he's floating in air. This puts Game and Watch in a very bad position, since Bowser can jump and Klaw Game and Watch this way. (As always, 18% is not cool.) If Bowser has grabbed, or chaingrabbed Game and Watch at the ledge, then Bowser can even Fair out of a jump release, which can be dangerous if Game and Watch is at high percents. All in all, try your best to avoid the grab. Bowser's grab range isn't that impressive, so avoiding it shouldn't be a big problem. However, it's always important to know how much **** Bowser can do out of a grab. Doing upwards of 35% from a grab is somewhat that you need to watch out for, especially since Bowser can pull out killing moves from his grabs. Which is why I'll say again, you need to space yourself. Getting close to Bowser means it's that much easier for him to land a grab.

Oh, and beware of Bowserciding. If Bowser grabs you near the ledge, then he can grab release into a Klaw, which is a potential suicide. Always DI toward the stage, or it's a free kill for him. This is important to note because Bowser's grab release chains into a Klaw so easily, and since your jump release moves Game and Watch a considerable horizontal distance, it makes it even easier for Bowser to land a successful Bowsercide on you. Not something you should worry about too much, just be careful.

Beware of Bowser's edguarding game as well. Bowser's moveset is tailored to edgeguarding pretty well, and he has lots of tools to utilize. Granted, it's near impossible for Bowser to gimp Game and Watch, but he can still edguard him all the same. (just with difficulty) Angled Ftilts come out surprisingly fast and have good range to them. Bowser's Dtilt does as well, and they both can hit you if you're not careful. Although it seems silly for me to mention it, take note of Bowser's Fsmash. Bowser's Fsmash has a really weird disjointed hitbox, so it can hit you on the ledge even if Bowser's head doesn't reach it. You'd be surprised at how many surprise kills Bowser can get simply because people don't know that the Fsmash is heavily disjointed. Really, it has longer range they Marth's Fsmash. Just look out for it and try not to get predictable with your approaches. Well spaced approaches can actually be stopped with a well placed Fsmash, simply because the hitbox is so outragously huge. And of course, as you know, the Fsmash usually means death if it hits. You shouldn't see it much, but it's still a move that's very usable for Bowser. (I actually think it's his best smash, if that's saying anything.)

Do not expect to gimp Bowser in this matchup either. I'm not being overly optimistic about Bowser's recovery either. Bowser is simply a character that is much harder to gimp then most people believe. Yes, his recovery follows a very predictable trajectory, but it actually pushes Bowser a very considerable distance. Because of the high amounts of priority the Fortress has, as well as its invincibility frames, Bowser's Fortess can go through a lot of things as long as it's used with proper timing. Once, I managed to avoid a Wario Waft edgegaurd just because the invincibility frames of the Fortress cut right though it. Not a likely scenario, but it's definitely possible. If Bowser is getting gimped in this matchup, then he's doing it wrong. Well timed Fortesses can be Bowser's answer to like, everything.

And the final thing I'm going to mention...Bowser's Utilt. This move is godly, and probably one of the best Utilts in the game. First of all, the Utilt comes out fast so it's not very telegraphed. It also kills early, and is one of Bowser's most usable killing moves. If you're above 90%, then it can kill quite easily fresh. One of the things that makes this move so awesome is that it has lots of priority and an extremely bogus hitbox. The hitbox for his move is so weirdly disjointed that it even outrages and beats all of Meta's aerials. For God's sake, beware of this piece of crap. It can even go through Turtles, Fairs, and Nairs if you're not careful.



So yeah, that's all I have to say. I actually believe the matchup to be 60-40 in Game and Watch's favor. Sorry for all the text. ><
 

A2ZOMG

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Oh yeah, and while Bowser does have crazy grab releases, he doesn't want to get grabbed either by the way in this matchup. Getting grabbed is either a juggle setup (Bowser is bad at escaping juggle traps) or a D-throw techchase setup (Bowser is also bad at escaping tech traps).

Likewise, you can't really hit G&W on the ledge if he's Up-B edgecamping. You could go for a risky edgehog. Maybe. I dunno.
 

MrEh

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Oh yeah, and while Bowser does have crazy grab releases, he doesn't want to get grabbed either by the way in this matchup. Getting grabbed is either a juggle setup (Bowser is bad at escaping juggle traps) or a D-throw techchase setup (Bowser is also bad at escaping tech traps).
Yeah, I mentioned that the Dthrow is total ****. :p


If he's ledgecamping, then Fire!
 
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