Mario Mafia/Newbie 10! Game Over! Scum Wins!

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 20, 2010

Jeez did Acrostic just ninja me blowing the lid off this game?

#HBC | Acrostic · Dec 20, 2010

Glyph said:
Jeez did Acrostic just ninja me blowing the lid off this game?

What do you mean by blowing the lid?

I have a confirmed mafia on Vanderantz. I believe that Sephiroth Masamune, you, and Meta-Kirby are town. Not too sure about Grump. I still feel that Ranmaru is scummier than Grump but that's just my personal opinion when I re-read the thread.

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

I honestly don't get why you're pulling this gambit, but ok. You could of rode my clear status after NKing me...

Tracker don't claim.

It's not worth outing yourself, as even with your word that Acrostic is lieing, town may still want to lynch me first.

I know Acrostic is mafia, so while I'd love to have him lynched, I can see that I'll probably have to die first.

Just don't quick lynch me so I can give town a plan of action. Instinct tells me his scum buddy is Glyph, as I see no other reason for his gambut

Unvote Vote: Acrostic

I have to go now but I'll be back toNight

#HBC | Acrostic · Dec 20, 2010

I would argue that if I was mafia, there would be no need for me to character claim and role claim this early in the game. I would also state that I was in a fairly good position with you initially marking me as a 99% townie. Making this claim would clearly be one of the worst possible choices.

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 20, 2010

Instinct tells you? How about some evidence there bud.

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

Acrostic said:
I would argue that if I was mafia, there would be no need for me to character claim and role claim this early in the game. I would also state that I was in a fairly good position with you initially marking me as a 99% townie. Making this claim would clearly be one of the worst possible choices.

I agree, and it's why I have no f'ing clue why you're doing this.

ToDay I get lynched, you most likely night kill Grump/Ran. Then tomorrow you are lynched and your buddy kills the other.

You're gambiting that your buddy won't get hit by the tracker (or possibly you thought I was the tracker?), and that he'll win a 3 man LYLO with Glyph/MK/Seph, or whoever you don't kill

Your scum partner is going to boil down to WIFOM. I'd say it would be MK most likely, then possibly Glyph. I can see no motivation for you doing this other than preventing your scum buddies lynch toDay. But bleh, that might be too obvious.

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

Again:

TRACKER DO NOT OUT YOURSELF IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM

This means DO NOT defend me. That is what Glyph is hoping you will do. Your job is to still be alive in LYLO or else town will not have a 100% clear and only a 33% chance of lynching scum correctly.

Ironically, I've been in this situation before, and had just talked about it in another game. How odd >.<.

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 20, 2010

Wait, do you have some kind of proof that Acrostic is scum? I'm confused.

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 20, 2010

Oh yeah that's cool, put words in my mouth when once again you have no proof that I'm scum.

And thanks for addressing my points I made earlier

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

Glyph said:
Instinct tells you? How about some evidence there bud.

It amazes me that you are blatantly prod dodging and have yet to post any real substance.

Also, I suggest waiting for a replacement for Seph before we end the day.

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 20, 2010

It amazes me that you can quote the post asking for evidence AND STILL NOT POST EVIDENCE.

Vote: Vanderzant

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

Glyph said:
Wait, do you have some kind of proof that Acrostic is scum? I'm confused.

I'm town. He's claiming that he tracked me and saw me target Tery. I did not do this, so therefore he is lieing and he is scum.

Also settle down, I'll get to your points in a second.

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 20, 2010

Heh, so you can claim I have contributed nothing and then tell me to settle down while you get to my points huh.

And guess what, if Acrostic is lying about being the tracker he'll be the next one to lynch. He's not stupid, so I feel pretty safe saying he's telling the truth (IE, not throwing his life away to take you down)

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

Glyph said:
To be perfectly frank, I think its absolutely ridiculous how sold some of you all are on me being scum for persecuting Tery.

Incorrect. I'm persecuting you for doing nothing OTHER than persecuting Tery. There is a big difference. I've made this clear numerous times, you skimming bro?

Glyph said:
I ask you, look at the posts I made towards him Day 1. Look at the points I brought up. You may notice no one really arguing against them because they are legit points. Tery had multiple posts that led me to believe he was scum, and when he proved me wrong by claiming Peach and Jailer, that was the end of it.

Yeah I also said multiple times that your case on him was legit. It's just that you didn't do anything else which is scummy.

Glyph said:
I don't remember who said it here, but the interesting thing about mafia is you don't know anyone's alignment until after the mod reveals the truth, but some of you seem to have already labeled me as scum for inactivity. If bad timing is a scum tell, then I don't really understand this game..

Yeah I said that. And try again, I'm not suspect of you for being inactive.

Glyph said:
SEMI confirmed?! Take a look a few pages back, you'll see that Tery was killed overnight. And what's this? Its Peach, the Jailer! And while you may deem it "near worthless" that I went after all the information I could from a person before I decided if they should be lynched, but it also saved him from being one of the major suspects of the day. Yes, I do wish I had done it differently knowing that I would be outing the Jailer, but I maintain that his posts were bad enough to merit investigation to the best of my abilities.

He wasn't confirmed when you made your case on him. I'm saying from EVERYONE ELSE'S perspective, we don't know if you are town or scum, so we can't know if you're manipulating us or not.

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD I DEFENDED YOU ON THIS POINT!!!! Others were saying you were scummy for using the info in your role pm and I said it's a NULL tell, REPEATEDLY until my fingers hurt from typing it so much!!!!! fffffffffuuuuu this is terrible skimming.

Glyph said:
Oh so when something is confirmed to be true that I claimed (peach=jailer) by the mod of the game, its foolish to trust what I say now? Now that seems kinda odd. If I'm not mistaken (and I know I'm not, I'm looking at the post right now), you yourself said "The mod also specificly stated that any wrongly recieved pm's have likely been changed"

A very strong, confident statement until the very end there, where you put that little "likely" in there. So while the role PMs very well may have been changed, the one I had was dead on. Only change I'm aware of is that the person receiving it changed.

Wtf? I even did an ebwop like 2 minutes later. You are straw manning the point I was trying to get across that we shouldn't rely on your flavour as evidence. It's like the dumbest thing I've ever seen for crying out loud.

Just because 1 pm wasn't changed doesn't mean any others you recieved were.

Like vanilla townie? Seems like then we'd just have to ask what Mario universe character, and watch for the counterclaim. We've already seen Peach and Yoshi, I would bet Mario, Luigi, Bowser, mainstream characters like that should probably show up as well. If someone were to claim to be Goomba, the Vanilla Townie, I would be a bit suspicious of that.

No no no no no.

If that were the case we would of just mass character claimed the second the game started.

Mafia WILL be given safe claims that blend in with the crowd, so the game can't be instantly be won for town by doing a mass claim. Go freaking read the OP I'm sure it says something about not relying on flavour.

Seriously, not relying on flavour is like mafia 101.

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

Glyph said:
Heh, so you can claim I have contributed nothing and then tell me to settle down while you get to my points huh.

And guess what, if Acrostic is lying about being the tracker he'll be the next one to lynch. He's not stupid, so I feel pretty safe saying he's telling the truth (IE, not throwing his life away to take you down)

What you've done this game
1. Tunnel Tery
2. Blatantly prod dodge
3. Attack 1 of my posts
4. Not commented on basically everything else that happened yesterDay

Let me as you this Glyph, are you content to just lynch me, and if I flip town lynch Acrostic tomorrow? I know it's going to happen... but what then? If you're town you should realise that you will most likely be the 3rd lynch, and thus you would lose the game for town.

PLEASE STOP WASTING YOUR TIME ARGUING WITH THE GUY WHO IS GOING TO GET LYNCHED REGARDLESSY, AND THINK ABOUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO LYNCH SCUM.

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

EBWOP: *Let me put it this way

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

Acrostic: Scum diddly dumb. Lynch him when I flip town.

Meta-Kirby: If I had to nail a scum buddy it'd probably be him. Acrostic has balls to try something like this, so he's obviously confident in his partner.

Glyph: Could make sense if Acrostic would rather get a town lynch and put Glyph in LYLO rather than risk being tracked himself. Probs less likely then MK scum though.

Seph: Don't just lynch him because he's been inactive. I don't know if he'd replace out if he were scum.

Ranmaru: I get townie vibes but could go either way

Grump: Don't know anymore >.<

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 20, 2010

vanderzant said:
Incorrect. I'm persecuting you for doing nothing OTHER than persecuting Tery. There is a big difference. I've made this clear numerous times, you skimming bro?

I thought I made it pretty clear that I had a bunch of stuff come up causing me to become inactive.

Yeah I also said multiple times that your case on him was legit. It's just that you didn't do anything else which is scummy.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I had a bunch of stuff come up causing me to become inactive.

And besides, that makes my entire case against Tery, something that I led myself, totally invalid?

Yeah I said that. And try again, I'm not suspect of you for being inactive.

Really? Because that's the reason I didn't do anything beyond go after Tery.

He wasn't confirmed when you made your case on him. I'm saying from EVERYONE ELSE'S perspective, we don't know if you are town or scum, so we can't know if you're manipulating us or not.

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD I DEFENDED YOU ON THIS POINT!!!! Others were saying you were scummy for using the info in your role pm and I said it's a NULL tell, REPEATEDLY until my fingers hurt from typing it so much!!!!! fffffffffuuuuu this is terrible skimming.

I'm aware of what happened. I'm addressing the points in your posts.

Wtf? I even did an ebwop like 2 minutes later. You are straw manning the point I was trying to get across that we shouldn't rely on your flavour as evidence. It's like the dumbest thing I've ever seen for crying out loud.

Just because 1 pm wasn't changed doesn't mean any others you recieved were.

Changing "likely changed" to "possibly changed" literally has ZERO impact on my post (that there is no certainty that ANYTHING was changed.)

No no no no no.

If that were the case we would of just mass character claimed the second the game started.

Mafia WILL be given safe claims that blend in with the crowd, so the game can't be instantly be won for town by doing a mass claim. Go freaking read the OP I'm sure it says something about not relying on flavour.

Seriously, not relying on flavour is like mafia 101.

Maybe before you decide that I should read the OP, you should take a look at it yourself. There's literally nothing about that in there, my not knowing that has nothing to do with lack of skill, but rather a lack of clairvoyance.

vanderzant said:
What you've done this game
1. Tunnel Tery
Once again, because I thoguht he was scum.
2. Blatantly prod dodge
You mean post in the few times I have free time? Yeah, I suppose I do.
3. Attack 1 of my posts
I had issues with what you said, so I brought them to the attention of everyone else.
4. Not commented on basically everything else that happened yesterDay
I haven't had much time to look over it, I've been focusing on you recently. If you'd like I could glance back over it next time I'm free though.

Let me as you this Glyph, are you content to just lynch me, and if I flip town lynch Acrostic tomorrow? I know it's going to happen... but what then? If you're town you should realise that you will most likely be the 3rd lynch, and thus you would lose the game for town.

PLEASE STOP WASTING YOUR TIME ARGUING WITH THE GUY WHO IS GOING TO GET LYNCHED REGARDLESSY, AND THINK ABOUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO LYNCH SCUM.

Right now, yeah. At the time of this writing, there are 5 town members and 2 mafia remaining. We know this to be a fact. Unless Acrostic is a townie turned bad, one of the two of you is scum.

He claims to be the tracker, and have followed you.

You cry out, "No one claim tracker! Its what Glyph wants you to do!"

But here's what I think, you don't think anyone is going to counterclaim at all. Probably because you're scum, and Acrostic has you backed in a corner.

So if all goes as planned and Acrostic is honest, you get lynched and town is up 4-1 (taking the nightkill into account). We review your posts, look for the most promising candidate while grilling everyone in the group, and hopefully find the final scum before the end of the game.

And lets say he's lying, and you're town through and through. After tonight, town will be up 3-2, and then 3-1 after we lynch Acrostic. Still not a bad scenario.

As for getting myself lynched if you turn up town, its really not a concern of mine. While I am arguing with you, trying to keep you from getting out of the lynch, Acrostic was the one who brought it all up in the first place (with evidence, not gut feelings like you like to use)

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

You still misundestand. What stopped you from commenting on stuff OTHER than Tery when you were making a case on him. Why did you give no thoughts on ANY other players. This is tunnelling. Ok, I get it, you'll say that you didn't see anything worth responding to but nearly everyone else managed to comment on things other than Tery.

You basically pointed your finger at Tery, stuck your other finger in your ear and went "LALALALALALA"

If you believe that Town could win this game by attacking only one player, the you are wrong, or you did it because you are scum.

Also, it'll be 2-1 when you take into account the night kill. So a 33% of winning for town. Not a great scenario for town, unless the tracker is still alive, which would make it 50/50. All I'm doing is trying to give town the best chance of winning.

I've already made it clear that I'm getting lynched. I'd a million times over prefer Acrostic, but he has played it too well that it's hard to prove he is scum other than my own word.

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 20, 2010

I focused on Tery because he was playing by far the most like a scum player would. No one else was nearly as suspicious as he was to me. And thus, I focused on him.

X1-12 · Dec 20, 2010

Grump receives a Prod

Day 2 Votecount

Vanderzant (2) Acrostic, Glyph
Acrostic (1) Vanderzant

Note Voting (4) Sephiroths Masamune, Grump, Meta-Kirby, Ranmaru

Sephiroths Masamune said:
Yo X1, sorry for doing this a second time, but I'm going to replace out.

Currently searching for a replacement

X1-12 · Dec 20, 2010

th3kuzinator replaces Sephiroths Masamune

th3kuzinator · Dec 20, 2010

/reporting in

Tis Vacation so V/LA for the next 2 weeks.

Dont modkill me in the meantime~

th3kuzinator · Dec 20, 2010

/srs

Reading now, Ill post my thoughts on everyone later today.

#HBC | Acrostic · Dec 20, 2010

Vanderzant out of curiosity, why does tunneling Tery constitute a mafia flag? If you think about it from this perspective, the people who wouldn't tunnel Terywj could be mafia since they know that Terywj is innocent and would look really bad to the rest of the town if they had tunneled an innocent player and he turned out to be town. I had my own personal reasons as to why I didn't go after Terywj which I posted in #522 (posted below).

The fact that you have been conditional in your statements and fail to consider the whole perspective makes me suspicious of your alignment. For instance the fact that you didn't consider the dual connotation that blocking could have on a given player (i.e. blocking player X with a no action result could either mean that the player was blocked from making the action OR (this is what Vanderzant chose to leave out) could also mean that the player was innocent and the target of such an attack. Grump was the one who decided to make this point later on. This singular sense of analysis indicated by the Tunnel and Jailer scenario seems to be too limited in consideration of your experience as an IC.

Acrostic said:
I know from first hand experience that scum tells are difficult to apply to first time players who have not read the tips and strategies posted on the mafia wiki. Most of the behavioral rules are true because people are aware of them. In my first game I was town and broke nearly every single one of those rules because no one told me what to read or where to go. Based on Terywj's previous comments before coming into this game, he was reluctant to participate and didn't know anything about mafia beforehand. Therefore I observed his actions as a similar case to my first game of mafia and assumed that he was like me, "This guy is so bad that he can't be mafia."

#HBC | Acrostic · Dec 20, 2010

EBWOP: Change is in bold. To be honest, I was trying to write this from outside my perspective of being tracker so I had to write this as if Vanderzant was innocent. Which is extremely difficult, because he is not town.

Vanderzant out of curiosity, why does tunneling Tery constitute a mafia flag? If you think about it from this perspective, the people who wouldn't tunnel Terywj could be mafia since they know that Terywj is innocent and would look really bad to the rest of the town if they had tunneled an innocent player and he turned out to be town. I had my own personal reasons as to why I didn't go after Terywj which I posted in #522 (posted below).

The fact that you have been conditional in your statements and fail to consider the whole perspective made me suspicious of your alignment. For instance the fact that you didn't consider the dual connotation that blocking could have on a given player (i.e. blocking player X with a no action result could either mean that the player was blocked from making the action OR (this is what Vanderzant chose to leave out) could also mean that the player was innocent and the target of such an attack. Grump was the one who decided to make this point later on. This singular sense of analysis indicated by the Tunnel and Jailer scenario seems to be too limited in consideration of your experience as an IC.

Acrostic said:
I know from first hand experience that scum tells are difficult to apply to first time players who have not read the tips and strategies posted on the mafia wiki. Most of the behavioral rules are true because people are aware of them. In my first game I was town and broke nearly every single one of those rules because no one told me what to read or where to go. Based on Terywj's previous comments before coming into this game, he was reluctant to participate and didn't know anything about mafia beforehand. Therefore I observed his actions as a similar case to my first game of mafia and assumed that he was like me, "This guy is so bad that he can't be mafia."

M.K · Dec 20, 2010

Vand asking the tracker not to claim was very blatantly dumb.
Let me also state that I'm sitting by the pool, sipping a Miami Vice as I type this on my blackberry. No shenanigans here.
@game, vand's asking the tracker not to counterclaim (basically). Using the "don't out a power role" rouse, ihe thinks the tracker will be the nk tonight.
Vand, this isn't a gambit because....hmm, a risk with only 2 Mafia players? And who would suggest this sort of risky play besides an IC himself? So, since I'm town, and you've been seen visiting Tery....

Vote: Vanderzant

I...Think I know where my mind is right now. Surifing the web on a blackberry is hard...but I like this push.

Few questions for Vand: In terms of player strength/threat to scum, list the players alive in order

vanderzant · Dec 20, 2010

Vote: Vanderzant

Screw it then.

You're all going to lol when I flip town.

Acrostic why did you do this lol? Hope ya know what you're doing.

#HBC | Acrostic · Dec 20, 2010

Is this the twilight phase?

th3kuzinator · Dec 20, 2010

Read everything and I am going to write a giant post explaining my reads on everyone.

However there is some current development going on atm so I want to respond to that.

So Vand is at L-1, you gonna claim VT?

I say that Vand/Acrostic is the play toDay because we will get efficient reads on the other when the first one flips.

Right now I say that Acrostic is scum.

vote acrostic

only pro town players fake self-hammer. (unless i get ninjad by vand unvoting and then actually self hammering)

th3kuzinator · Dec 20, 2010

and to clarify I do believe either acrostic or vand is scum

vand did not self hammer because he did not unvote. I feel that is a townie sort of move in an attempt to draw a comment from acrostic (which just happened). It was not blatantly scummy, but you seem quite eager to affirm that it was twilight and that he was actually hammered. I realize you have a 'guilty' on him, but I am liking his side of argument more than yours atm.

The only thing that conflicts me is that vand does not want a CC. its 100% absolute dumb to lynch the uncc'd tracker, but I will still put my vote on you because I do not want to see vand killed this quickly. We need to flesh out the acrostic/vand argument before we do anything.

IF ANYONE HAMMERS VAND, THEY ARE SCUM.

Someone unvote him asap. But before that, vand, could you clarify that you are a VT? I am assuming so as the only other town role would be a tracker and you yourself would have CC'd already if you had been the tracker. Or are you a mafia goon? Telling us now would greatly speed things up.

X1-12 · Dec 20, 2010

Day 2 Final Votecount

Vanderzant (4) Acrostic, Glyph. Meta-Kirby, Vanderzant

Note Voting (3) Sephiroths Masamune, Grump, Ranmaru

Vanderzant (Daisy, Vanilla Townie) has been Lynched!

Night 2 Begins! actions in by 10PM on 22nd December (GMT)

X1-12 · Dec 20, 2010

MOD NOTE:

I have heard from some of you talking about how Vanderzant didn't unvote before self-voting. At this point his flip has been revealed and there is nothing that can be done. On previous Days also, votes have been changed without unvoting first, including votes on the Lynch Target. At this point the game will just have to carry on with a Vanderzant lynch still in effect. I apologise to all players for this mistake and from this point forward a rule change is in effect

2.) To unvote, use the command unvote. For example, unvote vote: Sworddancer.. You do not need to unvote before voting again

Click to expand...

This is to prevent anything like this happening again. My sincere apologies

X1-12 · Dec 22, 2010

Meta-Kirby (Toadsworth, Vanilla Townie) Dies!

Day 3 begins!

No votes have been placed

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch!

Deadline is Jan 3rd

Mod Note:

No prods will be given between 24th and 26th december, or on the 31st December, or 1st January

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 22, 2010

Well this sucks.

Vote: Acrostic

Acrostic, I'm waiting for your explanation. Honestly I don't think you can say anything to change my mind after that, but if I've learned one thing in this game, its the most obvious scum is probably town.

ranmaru · Dec 22, 2010

Acrostic said:
He miscounted which I found was strange. I wanted to clear things up if it was a mistake.

Oh, no that is fine. I appreciate that you did, I even asked for a vote count myself.

Should I have said something? Before that I went through arm and leg to get UberMario to participate. You must understand that I was a bit exasperated at the fact that I tried to get him to really push out but his last response was kind of like 'meh, I dunno' which is not what you say when you are on the verge of getting lynched. It seems like you're trying to accuse me of not trying hard enough for UberMario which is odd since you didn't do much either in order to validate his town role before you decided to vote. I would appreciate your comments on why you didn't reconsider retracting your vote or helping me out if you are going to pay so much attention to the end of the day.

Hmmm? No, you didn't have. I meant you contradicted yourself and I was merely pointing out that you didn't seem to regret that WE -Van, Grump, and me- lynched him and you accidently voted or something. I would have retracted my vote if you asked to. Although Tery also was on the wagon, which you forgot to mention.

I didn't realize I missed his claim until I read MK's post.

Ah, ok, that's fine. Thank you for clearing that up.

I'm not sure which comment you're attempting to reference, but you've done a pretty poor job in wording it correctly. I attempted to clear Uber of town so that we wouldn't mislynch a townie. I tried to get Glyph involved so we could certify his claim and I tried to certify Glyph by checking with Tery in order to work out that claim. Therefore Glyph certified could possibly mean Uber certified if Glyph had the corresponding role pm. I tried my best to prevent him being lynched.

Some of the things I have noted off your play Ranmaru is that you tend to ask us how we are feeling a lot of the time. It seems like you are trying to gain acceptance from town on decisions you are considering and decisions you have already considered. It is a scum tell on the part of mafia to probe town and ask them how they feel about certain decisions that are made in order for them to make appropriate decisions in return. The fact that you have been doing this on a consistent basis in addition to the fact that you are attempting to cast a shadow of a doubt on me when you have suspicions of Glyph make me suspect of your alignment. To be quite honest, I believe that you are the play for today.

No, that's just my playstyle. I never tried to cast a shadow of doubt on you, I was merely pointing out something that was standing out to me.

Vote: Ranmaru

My responses are in Yellow-Green. Although, I do agree with Glyph. You lied, Acrostic. What do you have to say for yourself?

Also sorry (I got there too late, I was with my girlfriend), that day went by so fast. I came back and noticed the thread closed again. ;-;

th3kuzinator · Dec 22, 2010

Vote: Acrostic

L-1. Explain to me THIS SECOND, why you thought it was a good idea to lie about your guilty.

I cant believe you thought you could get away with that. But before someone hammers you, care to tell us your scum buddy? It would help a lot.

As for right now I think it may be glyph bussing his buddy, but im not sure yet.

ranmaru · Dec 22, 2010

Well, I think we need to put the pressure on Acrostic, so here I go...

Vote: Acrostic

You made a big mistake. Claim now.

th3kuzinator · Dec 22, 2010

DUDE WTF, WHY DID YOU JUST HAMMER? ****!

I swear to god, dude, you gotta learn to keep your cool in lylo. Dont jump the gun.

Acrostic is probably scum anyway, so we're fine for now, but If I die toNight, dont do that stuff in lylo toMorrow.

ranmaru · Dec 22, 2010

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUU. ;-; I was ninjad. I thought that I needed to put in some action, but I'm sorry. : [

Sorry Acrostic, forgot that there was 3 people to vote. Of all the times of voting... I think you kinda brought it on yourself though, your scumminess was apparent.

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