The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

PokemonMasterIRL · Sep 14, 2009

you forget how fat ddd is and how early he can KO.

thats like 50% of the character being so good.

that **** is fat.

A2ZOMG · Sep 14, 2009

Anh Lam Bing said:
you forget how fat ddd is and how early he can KO.

That's like telling me "you forget how fat Ganondorf is and how early he can KO".

King DDD is absolutely terrible at KOs. His U-tilt is extremely situational and only viable in very specific matchups, which is mainly against terrible characters or DDD dittos where it's harder to avoid.

And anyhow, besides that, he can't kill without a lucky Smash, a fresh Gordo, or a fresh B-air/F-air. B-air and F-air are somewhat viable, but only for edgeguarding. And B-air is very likely to not be fresh. F-air is avoidable on reaction.

Vex Kasrani · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
King DDD is overrated.

Metaknight gets the % lead better and outcamps him, which ultimately owns him.

Falco owns him. Very few questions asked.

Pikachu chaingrabs him and owns him.

Olimar camps him with Pikmin and grabs and owns him.

G&W camps him (with Chef, no less. It stops Waddle Dees, outranges F-tilt, and kills basically everything he does, meaning he gets ***** on FD) and owns him with fullhopped tricks and superior edgeguarding.

The Ice Climbers own him with camping and chaingrabs.

He doesn't even very clearly beat Snake at any rate, which is supposed to be his best matchup. All King DDD can do is rack damage, but he's crap at scoring the KO, which Snake on the other hand is VASTLY better at.

Wario owns him if he gets a % lead.

Remind me why he even qualifies in the S tier. If it has to do with chaingrabbing the rest of the cast, I'm not impressed. Top of the A tier? I can definitely agree with that, but seriously, S tier?

Actually he beats GnW, otherwise your right I guess.

phi1ny3 · Sep 14, 2009

D3 is almost like the Zangief of Brawl haha. iirc, he wrecks low tier people and is really grapply in fighting.

PokemonMasterIRL · Sep 14, 2009

phi1ny3 said:
D3 is almost like the Zangief of Brawl haha. iirc, he wrecks low tier people and is really grapply in fighting.

if zangief is anyone its DK.

hairy wears red.

Up B = Lariat

Dnkey punch = Green Hand

Cargo throw = Zangief grabs **** too.

mhmm

A2ZOMG · Sep 14, 2009

Vex Kasrani said:
Actually he beats GnW, otherwise your right I guess.

No, G&W clearly beats DDD.

King DDD can't do anything when G&W camps with Chef except hope for random Gordos. On FD where there are no platforms in the way, Chef ***** DDD. And that is supposed to be one of G&W's worst stages in general.

It's not even hard to NOT get shieldgrabbed if you have good spacing. G&W fundamentally has more reliable KO moves too, for the simple fact that DDD is easy to edgeguard.

If it means anything, I beat Mikehaze's DDD.

Jupz · Sep 14, 2009

Ummm what?

Dedede can ko excellently, uptilt is extremely fast and can be used to kill regularly. We also have Dsmash which KO's at like 5% lower and has good range on the ground.

And how is snake supposedly his "best"matchup? Most DDD's think its around even. He also goes around even or beats wario.

A2ZOMG · Sep 14, 2009

Jupz said:
Ummm what?

Dedede can ko excellently, uptilt is extremely fast and can be used to kill regularly. We also have Dsmash which KO's at like 5% lower and has good range on the ground.

And how is snake supposedly his "best"matchup? Most DDD's think its around even. He also goes around even or beats wario.

U-tilt has crappy range except above DDD, so it's basically ROB's U-smash. Horrible KO move.

D-smash is also a terrible KO move in that he has no really reliable way to land it, and it's a very unsafe KO move.

Saying DDD is good at KOs is like saying Ganondorf is good at KOs, which is clearly false. DDD is better than Ganondorf because he gets to do reliable massive damage, but he's terrible at KOs.

Snake is supposed to be DDD's one matchup that's supposed to justify him being good. If it's not in his favor, then too bad. He doesn't have any legitimately good S tier matchups.

Wario is only in DDD's favor if he gets a chaingrab off, but if Wario gets the % lead first, it's in Wario's favor.

-Mars- · Sep 14, 2009

DDD doesn't KO excellently lol I agree with A2. DDD is a relatively straightforward character with bad matchups where it matters. He possesses a few good attributes and moves, but no reliable KO setups.

probably one of the main reasons why you're going to be seeing more and more people dropping DDD. Especially with the surge of Ice Climbers.

-Mars- · Sep 14, 2009

Thought i'd post a tier list of my own for the heck of it.

S:
MK
Snake
Diddy Kong
Falco
Wario

A:
Ice Climbers
Marth
Pikachu
Olimar
DDD
ZSS
G&W
Sheik
Kirby

B:
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
ROB
Toon Link
Pit
Wolf

C:
Peach
DK
Fox
Sonic
Luigi

D:
Mario
Zelda
Bowser
Captain Falcon

E:
Ike
Samus
Yoshi
Ness
Link
Lucas

F:
Jiggz
Ganondorf

etecoon · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
He doesn't even very clearly beat Snake at any rate, which is supposed to be his best matchup. All King DDD can do is rack damage, but he's crap at scoring the KO, which Snake on the other hand is VASTLY better at.

DDD does clearly beat snake, and best matchup? I think DK might have something to say about that. DDD is great at KOing snake, chain grab to edge guarding works extremely well vs snake.

I think you overrate how badly some other characters like falco and MK beat DDD but certainly they do win, with the exception of GAW. but I agree that he's kind of overrated in general, as mars said, he's kind of a simple character that tends to either be something you can work around or you can't, he loses to a lot of more versatile upper tier characters but he also destroys a lot of characters with relatively little effort.

phi1ny3 · Sep 14, 2009

Marsulas said:
DDD doesn't KO excellently lol I agree with A2. DDD is a relatively straightforward character with bad matchups where it matters. He possesses a few good attributes and moves, but no reliable KO setups.

probably one of the main reasons why you're going to be seeing more and more people dropping DDD. Especially with the surge of Ice Climbers.

^This is quite true.

A2ZOMG · Sep 14, 2009

etecoon said:
DDD does clearly beat snake, and best matchup? I think DK might have something to say about that. DDD is great at KOing snake, chain grab to edge guarding works extremely well vs snake.

Lol, that only does damage. And then Snake gets back on stage and you have a problem.

Snake is supposed to be the ONE matchup that makes DDD "good". But even then, it's an iffy matchup at best. DDD can't KO without getting lucky, and Snake is at a much larger advantage scoring the KO and actually camping.

Have fun watching Snake live to 240% if he can avoid U-tilt...

etecoon · Sep 14, 2009

yeah, DDD's bair and fair can't kill or anything O WAIT

A2ZOMG · Sep 14, 2009

etecoon said:
yeah, DDD's bair and fair can't kill or anything O WAIT

B-air is never a KO move since it's never fresh. F-air is avoidable on reaction.

Point is DDD has NO RELIABLE WAY TO KO.

etecoon · Sep 14, 2009

snake can't air dodge out of his cypher for a second, a move can be completely telegraphed and snake can't do ****. and bair still puts snake in a bad position where he can be hit again, and it's very faulty theorycraft to assume that because snake lives to high percents and that DDD's bair is a common move that it can't kill. chain grab refreshes moves, and at high enough percents even a partially staled attack will kill, "omg all DDD can do is deal damage" isn't totally insignificant, DDD can take snake to extremely high percentages a lot easier than most characters.

Neo Exdeath · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
B-air is never a KO move since it's never fresh. F-air is avoidable on reaction.

Point is DDD has NO RELIABLE WAY TO KO.

If he's racked up enough damage with his chain grab, then anything can be a reliable KO move.

A2ZOMG · Sep 14, 2009

etecoon said:
snake can't air dodge out of his cypher for a second

C4 would like to say "hi". In the end, a good Snake can avoid getting edgeguarded at KO%s.

DDD can take snake to extremely high percentages a lot easier than most characters.

Snake is also excellent at damage dealing, is able to camp better with grenades, has an amazing D-throw and F-tilt, and most importantly a viable U-tilt that KOs at like 130%. And then every other move Snake has KOs earlier than anything DDD can do, and considering how predictable DDD's recovery is too, he's gotta watch out.

Tell me again how good DDD is at damage dealing and then tell me what's easier to land than Snake's U-tilt.

TheReflexWonder · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
B-air is never a KO move since it's never fresh. F-air is avoidable on reaction.

Point is DDD has NO RELIABLE WAY TO KO.

As stupid as it might sound, going between multiple jumps and fastfall/not-fastfall -> U-Tilt/B-Air is entirely reliable as its own mix-up and it is super-scary.

Also, Pokemon Trainer for B Tier, apparently.

A2ZOMG · Sep 14, 2009

TheReflexWonder said:
As stupid as it might sound, going between multiple jumps and fastfall/not-fastfall -> U-Tilt/B-Air is entirely reliable as its own mix-up and it is super-scary.

I wonder if I'm the only person who has watched Lain vs Ally...besides, B-air still isn't a reliable KO move.

etecoon · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
C4 would like to say "hi". In the end, a good Snake can avoid getting edgeguarded at KO%s.

dealing 17-30+% in self inflicted damage in order to survive is snake's best case scenario? you're proving my point for me here. DDD can footstool snake out of C4 recovery though, nothing snake can do is completely safe, it's all prediction/getting DDD to mess up.

Snake is also excellent at damage dealing, is able to camp better with grenades, has an amazing D-throw and F-tilt, and most importantly a viable U-tilt that KOs at like 130%. And then every other move Snake has KOs earlier than anything DDD can do, and considering how predictable DDD's recovery is too, he's gotta watch out.

snake's dthrow is good but not comparable to DDD's, and DDD controls the spacing battle in this matchup and is going to be landing grabs more frequently anyway. snake doesn't lose too badly because he is such a solid character, but the fact that DDD does in fact win is really not much of a question, it is very obvious when you look at both characters' tools.

Tell me again how good DDD is at damage dealing and then tell me what's easier to land than Snake's U-tilt.

snake's utilt really isn't easy to land on DDD at all, DDD should be spaced farther than that typically and inside of that range DDD will often beat him with standing grab or shield grabs, snake needs to powershield/get DDD to screw up in order to utilt. DDD's standing grab destroys most of snake's viable options single handedly by the way. the only way snake can get in contention for winning this matchup is if snake's start dthrow tech chasing on 100% reaction 0-death on DDD, and while this is theoretically possible, it has yet to occur in practice at all.

I wonder if I'm the only person who has watched Lain vs Ally...besides, B-air still isn't a reliable KO move.

lain losing to ally proves nothing, lain's DDD, as great as it is, is not on ally's snake level, CO18 3-0'd ally in a MM btw, but basing any matchup on a set, especially when one player is using their secondary, is completely absurd

TheReflexWonder · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
I wonder if I'm the only person who has watched Lain vs Ally...besides, B-air still isn't a reliable KO move.

Killing characters at just into triple digits when fresh is pretty solid. Besides, when you get most characters off-stage, you get two or three if you're edgeguarding well. If the opponent recovers above Dedede, they should be punished, too.

Dark.Pch · Sep 14, 2009

Reflex, how can you say Wolf belongs over Peach cause people are not using him right. I might as well just say the way people are using Peach is no good and though has not been placing alot. And always wanting to play aggressive. Also that can be said for alot of characters dude.

TheReflexWonder · Sep 14, 2009

Dark.Pch said:
Reflex, how can you say Wolf belongs over Peach cause people are not using him right. I might as well just say the way people are using Peach is no good and though has not been placing alot. And always wanting to play aggressive. Also that can be said for alot of characters dude.

Mostly, Wolf can run away if he ~~needs~~ wants to.

He's like Falco, except less ridiculous and with an abysmal recovery. Soooo safe when you know what you're doing.

Dark.Pch · Sep 14, 2009

With the speed that he got? he can't run away, not even from me (Peach). If I can stop Falcos from camping me and running away, what makes you think Wolf is any better?

Also is your answer for everything "Running away" or "timing out the clock"?

-Mars- · Sep 14, 2009

He means run away with his excellent aerial movement speed, not run speed.......come on man not that hard to figure out.

TheReflexWonder · Sep 14, 2009

Dark.Pch said:
With the speed that he got? he can't run away, not even from me (Peach). If I can stop Falcos from camping me and running away, what makes you think Wolf is any better?

Also is your answer for everything "Running away" or "timing out the clock"?

Wolf is at least A Tier in horizontal aerial mobility. It's comparable to Wario as far as top speed goes.

I'd argue that those Falcos don't know what they're doing, as well.

Making the opponent approach is almost always the best option, especially when the opponent is bad at approaching~~, like Peach~~.

Certain characters just can't compete with it at all.

smashkng · Sep 14, 2009

Marsulas said:
Thought i'd post a tier list of my own for the heck of it.

S:
MK
Snake
Diddy Kong
Falco
Wario

A:
Ice Climbers
Marth
Pikachu
Olimar
DDD
ZSS
G&W
Sheik
Kirby

B:
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
ROB
Toon Link
Pit
Wolf

C:
Peach
DK
Fox
Sonic
Luigi

D:
Mario
Zelda
Bowser
Captain Falcon

E:
Ike
Samus
Yoshi
Ness
Link
Lucas

F:
Jiggz
Ganondorf

Fails
How can Captain Falcon be that high? He has terrible matchups. His hitboxes are extremely small (extreme anoyance to hit small characters), moves lack shieldstun and priority and his approach completely unsafe and predictable. None of all of his matchups are in his favour. They are only comparable to Ganon, who gets ***** as well, but harder.
Other fails are Sheik being so high, Falco being so high and Ness and Lucas being so low.

Dark 3nergy · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
U-tilt has crappy range except above DDD, so it's basically ROB's U-smash. Horrible KO move.

It has better vertical range than usmash, unlike ROB's usmash that doesnt have hit boxes to the sides, DDD does have abit of a horizontal one infront of him. So no

D-smash is also a terrible KO move in that he has no really reliable way to land it, and it's a very unsafe KO move.

Buuman trap for non-chain grabb-ables says hi. Its abit disjointed at the tips of the hammer, and has the better range horizontally than utilt/usmash. Dsmash is the safer smash to be using. Realistically; bthrow,bair,fair and utilt are far safer to be using in terms of animation delay

Saying DDD is good at KOs is like saying Ganondorf is good at KOs, which is clearly false. DDD is better than Ganondorf because he gets to do reliable massive damage, but he's terrible at KOs.

So we go from DDD to Ganon? A good DDD will keep his killing options fresh

Snake is supposed to be DDD's one matchup that's supposed to justify him being good. If it's not in his favor, then too bad. He doesn't have any legitimately good S tier matchups.

I love how upset this guy is at DDD lol

Wario is only in DDD's favor if he gets a chaingrab off, but if Wario gets the % lead first, it's in Wario's favor.

Very incorrect, the Wario vs DDD match up is VERY STAGE dependant. Learn2research

lol answers in bold

his hate makes me lol irl

A2ZOMG said:
Lol, that only does damage. And then Snake gets back on stage and you have a problem.

Snake is supposed to be the ONE matchup that makes DDD "good". But even then, it's an iffy matchup at best. DDD can't KO without getting lucky, and Snake is at a much larger advantage scoring the KO and actually camping.

Have fun watching Snake live to 240% if he can avoid U-tilt...

Chain grab, to pummel release off the ledge for Snake to edge guard.

ggs

i love how your also forgetting this important note;

etecoon said:
chain grab refreshes moves,

A2ZOMG said:
Tell me again how good DDD is at damage dealing and then tell me what's easier to land than Snake's U-tilt.

By the time i hit this sentence its obvious to me you have no idea how DDD is played. Moron

AfroQT · Sep 14, 2009

Suspect said:
figured someone would know it has "nothing in brawl is close to melee" guess i should write everything out for the lil mental folks out there

Nice sentence genius.
Im pretty sure your in school right now, which is a good thing, because your english is ****ing terrible.

PhantomX · Sep 14, 2009

You are both black, therefore neither of you can speak the language... so why are you even arguing!?

AfroQT · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
Lol, that only does damage. And then Snake gets back on stage and you have a problem.

Snake is supposed to be the ONE matchup that makes DDD "good". But even then, it's an iffy matchup at best. DDD can't KO without getting lucky, and Snake is at a much larger advantage scoring the KO and actually camping.

Have fun watching Snake live to 240% if he can avoid U-tilt...

Good to see you've never faced a good D3 before.
Snake dies at 120+ if he gets grabbed, a fresh Bair off a walkoff will kill him. So now you have to avoid gettin baired while recovering from below the stage...have fun with that one. I really liked reading the "then snake gets back on the stage" part. Its funny because, thats the WORST PART of the chaingrab. D3 covers all of snakes options off the edge, and can easily wrack up damage OR a kill on snake. Snake is the one that has guess to escape, and he has to hope D3 reacts wrong. Theres no safe option to getting back on the stage once CG'd off, and if D3 reacts right, your eating 50-60% or dieing.

Snake doesnt have a single kill setup on D3 outside of DThrow techchases.

You are both black, therefore neither of you can speak the language... so why are you even arguing!?

0/10

Brinzy · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
Wario is only in DDD's favor if he gets a chaingrab off, but if Wario gets the % lead first, it's in Wario's favor.

If it can swing in favor that easily one way or another, then it's probably an even matchup.

adumbrodeus · Sep 14, 2009

Successor of Raphael said:
If it can swing in favor that easily one way or another, then it's probably an even matchup.

Main question should be "how easily can it swing either way".

If it's, "Ganon grabs wario"-easy to swing one way and "ICs grab ganon" easy to swing the other, but can swing either way, it's definitely not easy.

Dark 3nergy · Sep 14, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
Tell me again how good DDD is at damage dealing and then tell me what's easier to land than Snake's U-tilt.

my favorite quote thus far internet

truely he lets his idiocy shine like the light from heaven on poor broken noobs

So....A2ZOMG

why dont you tell us why Mario is SUCH an amazing character, and why hes unviabl---oh wait

da K.I.D. · Sep 14, 2009

all I know is that a good wario main told me that even without the GR and the CG, DDD would be a hard match for wario based, solely on the fact that ddds bair, beats pretty much warios entire moveset.

Dark.Pch · Sep 14, 2009

TheReflexWonder said:
Wolf is at least A Tier in horizontal aerial mobility. It's comparable to Wario as far as top speed goes.

I'd argue that those Falcos don't know what they're doing, as well.

Making the opponent approach is almost always the best option, especially when the opponent is bad at approaching~~, like Peach~~.

Certain characters just can't compete with it at all.

If you are SERIOUSLY saying Peach is bad at approaching, then I can't take you seriously. When you say things about characters. And I got no problem going to people. Since I have many ways to approach someone.

This lil logic won't get characters far. cause while characters like Wario have all that air speed. he still gets beat up by characters like Peach and Marth. he can't run from a beating.

It seems to me that all you think about is just running away and timing people out. And if a character with speed gets beaten by one that is slow. they are doing it wrong. Again as I said before, all this stuff is not everything. There is ways around this crap with other characters.

PhantomX · Sep 14, 2009

Annoying =/= hard.

Dark 3nergy · Sep 14, 2009

PhantomX said:
You are both black, therefore neither of you can speak the language... so why are you even arguing!?

this wasnt even funny guy...borderline racism

황미영 · Sep 14, 2009

Afro_Thundah said:
Nice sentence genius.
Im pretty sure your in school right now, which is a good thing, because your english is ****ing terrible.

Can I say the same about you?

You're in school. Not your. ITS MY SCHOOL! >:'C

Sadly, I suck at English too...

The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Not the Mama

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Not the Mama

Smash Legend

Smash Hero

Smash Legend

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Legend

Wonderful!

Smash Legend

Smash Hero

Wonderful!

Smash Legend

Wonderful!

Smash Legend

Smash Hero

Wonderful!

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Master

WarioMan

Smash Master

Godfather of the Crimean Mafia

Smash Legend

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Legend

WarioMan

Smash Hero

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