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Phoenix 3 August 21st Coquitlam BC
- Thread starter LFL
- Start date
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
mm or not, GaW is my best character... so that's why I was pointing it out.
And I'd agree to a money match. I'm the best at melee in my neighborhood (lol
)
Also, virtual console smash 64 just sucks. It should never be used in an actual tournament setting. The original console should be used. People can just get used to the 64 controller. Trust me, once smash 64 became available on the virtual console, there was a huge debate about this in the 64 forums, with melee/brawlers saying that they have the majority and they want it on the VC so they can use gamecube controllers. Nevertheless, the 64 players agreed that in the end, the later matches were going to be between us mostly, and we would prefer the 64 over the VC, so the 64 was deemed the best course of action.
Plus, Ness and Yoshi are unplayable on the gamecube controller.
And I'd agree to a money match. I'm the best at melee in my neighborhood (lol
)Also, virtual console smash 64 just sucks. It should never be used in an actual tournament setting. The original console should be used. People can just get used to the 64 controller. Trust me, once smash 64 became available on the virtual console, there was a huge debate about this in the 64 forums, with melee/brawlers saying that they have the majority and they want it on the VC so they can use gamecube controllers. Nevertheless, the 64 players agreed that in the end, the later matches were going to be between us mostly, and we would prefer the 64 over the VC, so the 64 was deemed the best course of action.
Plus, Ness and Yoshi are unplayable on the gamecube controller.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Well, all these mm's and everything else that involve me depend on whether or not I am actually able to show up... I'm 50/50 right now...
Sion
Island of Horizon
maybe like once
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Tri-smash tourneys don't count as brawl tourneys. We all know melee is the main event (which was kind-of proved when half the brawl entrants (me included) threw their matches to go back to melee friendlies lol).
I remember my matches vs Yakal. Pikachu >>>>>> Snake's recovery. In doubles, me and Matt (talking_chicken) ended up going against Yakal's team. they both went Snake. I went Pikachu. I nearly single-handedly won the game. Then they went double MK in game 3...
So yeah... in my opinion, the Tri-Smash tournaments don't count as brawl tournaments... more like melee tournaments with brawl side-events.
I remember my matches vs Yakal. Pikachu >>>>>> Snake's recovery. In doubles, me and Matt (talking_chicken) ended up going against Yakal's team. they both went Snake. I went Pikachu. I nearly single-handedly won the game. Then they went double MK in game 3...
So yeah... in my opinion, the Tri-Smash tournaments don't count as brawl tournaments... more like melee tournaments with brawl side-events.
Lib3r4t3
Smash Ace
I actually want to know what people think about these. Lets get a discussion going, alright?
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
I honestly really like the way they set up the starter stage list. It's refreshing to see a list that acknowledges FD as less "neutral" than the other standard starter stages. There are a lot of iffy stages listed as CPs, but most people seem to neglect the fact that it's a recommended stage list and just freak out about it. =P
I don't see the the lack of LGL getting much support here. I understand the reasoning behind it, but it seems to me most people will see it as nothing more than permission to plank to their heart's content. The suicide moves rule is going to have to be looked at as well; if Tero and Defender both make it to this, we will have both a Ganon main and a Bowser main, both of whom are probably affected the most by this rule. From what I've read about this issue, the outcome chosen by the game for Ganoncides is somewhat random, rendering one of Ganon's strongest tools completely unreliable. From what I understand, Bowser can jump after Bowsercides to prolong his stock long enough to guarantee the victory, but I don't pretend to be an expert on either character, so I can't say for sure what should be done here.
My 2 cents, even though I'm not going. :x
I don't see the the lack of LGL getting much support here. I understand the reasoning behind it, but it seems to me most people will see it as nothing more than permission to plank to their heart's content. The suicide moves rule is going to have to be looked at as well; if Tero and Defender both make it to this, we will have both a Ganon main and a Bowser main, both of whom are probably affected the most by this rule. From what I've read about this issue, the outcome chosen by the game for Ganoncides is somewhat random, rendering one of Ganon's strongest tools completely unreliable. From what I understand, Bowser can jump after Bowsercides to prolong his stock long enough to guarantee the victory, but I don't pretend to be an expert on either character, so I can't say for sure what should be done here.
My 2 cents, even though I'm not going. :x
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Yeah, I was going to mention the suicides...
We should have a finite way of determining the outcome of suicides. Otherwise, port priority becomes an even bigger problem...
Otherwise, I agree with the stage list. I wouldn't mind playing on new stages from time to time. But I think we should also add Spear Pillar as a counterpick at the very minimum.
We should have a finite way of determining the outcome of suicides. Otherwise, port priority becomes an even bigger problem...
Otherwise, I agree with the stage list. I wouldn't mind playing on new stages from time to time. But I think we should also add Spear Pillar as a counterpick at the very minimum.
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
Norfair is "gay" if you don't know the stage. If you don't know how to deal with the lava, you'll get wrecked, but once you figure it out, it really isn't very threatening at all. Skidd, it's probably a good MK stage, but the lava keeps planking from being a problem by forcing him off the ledge. The opposing player can actually gain a favourable position over the planker by pressuring them to stay on the ledge when the lava comes, which could potentially put the planker between the other player and the lava.
Luigi's Mansion is probably the sketchiest stage on the list IMO, because of how strong it is for very one-dimensional tactics, while greatly increasing the focus of the match on who can tech off the ceiling the longest. The mansion being breakable helps a bit, but it takes a while to do, and the person who wants to keep the ceiling up shouldn't be allowing their opponent to break the walls in the first place. This strategy is extremely difficult to get around if the player who benefits from the stage knows what they're doing, but fortunately, this won't happen for the first little while since so few people actually play on this stage.
A lot of people assume the cars break PTAD because they KO so early; however, every transformation has at least one safe zone it which it is impossible to get hit by the cars. The ledgeless platform is another reason people don't like it, but the fact that the track is almost always present underneath means being unable to snap onto the ledge will rarely result in death. I don't know if it should be a CP or not, but it is clearly a very strong CP if it is. I would expect it to be advantageous for characters who have trouble KOing and know how to use the cars to their advantage.
Luigi's Mansion is probably the sketchiest stage on the list IMO, because of how strong it is for very one-dimensional tactics, while greatly increasing the focus of the match on who can tech off the ceiling the longest. The mansion being breakable helps a bit, but it takes a while to do, and the person who wants to keep the ceiling up shouldn't be allowing their opponent to break the walls in the first place. This strategy is extremely difficult to get around if the player who benefits from the stage knows what they're doing, but fortunately, this won't happen for the first little while since so few people actually play on this stage.
A lot of people assume the cars break PTAD because they KO so early; however, every transformation has at least one safe zone it which it is impossible to get hit by the cars. The ledgeless platform is another reason people don't like it, but the fact that the track is almost always present underneath means being unable to snap onto the ledge will rarely result in death. I don't know if it should be a CP or not, but it is clearly a very strong CP if it is. I would expect it to be advantageous for characters who have trouble KOing and know how to use the cars to their advantage.
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
Which is why we're discussing which aspects of the ruleset we should use.
Metà
Smash Master
Tri-Smash 1 (aka SFU6) was the biggest Brawl tournament in BC to date.
get f*cked up LOL
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
It is called SFU 6, not tri-smash 1. So my statement remains valid
Sion
Island of Horizon
real men fight on neutrals
Lib3r4t3
Smash Ace
qfe hahaha.
I'm really against the stage list, having no lgl (as you guys already know), and the suicide one is just down right stupid, even if it helps me out.
PTAD, LM, PS2, and a few others change the objective of the game. Fight for this spot, run away and do this, you're stopping playing brawl to fight some momentary intermission, which should immediately be banned more than just being slightly disruptive like the combo cannon's claw.
I like how the neutrals are, and would think that the 7 neutrals would be fine, I'm a little opposed to DP and Halberd being on the neutral list.
If I could have my way, I'd want only the 9 neutral stages and brinstar and frigate left legal.
Karupin
Smash Journeyman
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Spear Pillar should be the only legal stage.
I think we have some dissecting to do on the rules list... suicides, ledgegrab rule (if there is none, I will abuse it in pools matches, and I hope others join me)... quite a few things may need changes.
Well... stages... Here's my opinion... Green is neutral, Yellow is counterpick, red is banned (I'm being serious in this list... otherwise, you would have seen banned stages as neutral... e.g. Spear Pillar lol).
Starter/Counter
* Battlefield
* Yoshi's Island
* Smashville
* Lylat Cruise
* Pokémon Stadium
* Final Destination
* Castle Siege
* Delfino Plaza
* Halberd
Counterpick
* Luigi's Mansion
* Norfair
* Frigate Orpheon
* Pokémon Stadium 2
* Port Town Aero Dive
* Distant Planet
* Pictochat
* Jungle Japes
* Rainbow Cruise
* Green Greens
* Brinstar
Counter/Banned
* Yoshi's Island (Melee)
* Pirate Ship
I think we have some dissecting to do on the rules list... suicides, ledgegrab rule (if there is none, I will abuse it in pools matches, and I hope others join me)... quite a few things may need changes.
Well... stages... Here's my opinion... Green is neutral, Yellow is counterpick, red is banned (I'm being serious in this list... otherwise, you would have seen banned stages as neutral... e.g. Spear Pillar lol).
Starter/Counter
* Battlefield
* Yoshi's Island
* Smashville
* Lylat Cruise
* Pokémon Stadium
* Final Destination
* Castle Siege
* Delfino Plaza
* Halberd
Counterpick
* Luigi's Mansion
* Norfair
* Frigate Orpheon
* Pokémon Stadium 2
* Port Town Aero Dive
* Distant Planet
* Pictochat
* Jungle Japes
* Rainbow Cruise
* Green Greens
* Brinstar
Counter/Banned
* Yoshi's Island (Melee)
* Pirate Ship
I think that, from Blue Yoshi's list:
Norfair should be a cp - It's the only MK ruiner in the game, and the stage effects can be avoided rather easily(But easily manipulated as well).
Lylat should be a cp - It's a bit to big, and it has a weird layout.
Castle Siege should be banned - how's this neutral? weird layout, cargo KOs, etc.
Pokemon Stadium 2 should be banned - the effects are too critical to the match, i.e. mk/jiggs/ddd/kirby on the flying-type stage, etc.
Pictochat should be banned - The drawing have too mcuh effect on the match, they take away options, almost all of them can be manipulated, taking up time, etc
Norfair should be a cp - It's the only MK ruiner in the game, and the stage effects can be avoided rather easily(But easily manipulated as well).
Lylat should be a cp - It's a bit to big, and it has a weird layout.
Castle Siege should be banned - how's this neutral? weird layout, cargo KOs, etc.
Pokemon Stadium 2 should be banned - the effects are too critical to the match, i.e. mk/jiggs/ddd/kirby on the flying-type stage, etc.
Pictochat should be banned - The drawing have too mcuh effect on the match, they take away options, almost all of them can be manipulated, taking up time, etc
Max113
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2010
- Messages
- 190
Are you an MK lover? -________-
Norfair was originally banned because MK was so good on it.
Castle Siege is MK's only bad neutral in that list. >_>
And the rest are legal in MLG and the new list so...
EDIT: Better idea... let's NOT use the new rules. >:/
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Take into account that, as far as neutrals go, stage striking is in effect, so if someone does not like a neutral in the list, it will be stroken out. As far as CP's go, take into account that everyone can ban a stage they do not wish to play on.
As far as your list:
Norfair I would consider to be counter/ban... I'm fine either way. Castle Siege, I think it's a good counterpick... but it can be stroken from neutral.
Pokemon Stadium 2, I always thought it should be a counterpick. The 'controversial' changes aren't that bad at all. It's at least playable. I can see why people want this banned, but I personally see it as a legit counterpick.
Pictochat, though it has it's flaws, it's not that bad a stage that it should be banned... The hazards come into effect well after it is visible, so it's not like it takes you by surprise.
Edit: Final Destination is considered a bad MK stage (chaingrabbing, projectile camping, etc.).
As far as your list:
Norfair I would consider to be counter/ban... I'm fine either way. Castle Siege, I think it's a good counterpick... but it can be stroken from neutral.
Pokemon Stadium 2, I always thought it should be a counterpick. The 'controversial' changes aren't that bad at all. It's at least playable. I can see why people want this banned, but I personally see it as a legit counterpick.
Pictochat, though it has it's flaws, it's not that bad a stage that it should be banned... The hazards come into effect well after it is visible, so it's not like it takes you by surprise.
Edit: Final Destination is considered a bad MK stage (chaingrabbing, projectile camping, etc.).
How is Castle Siege bad for MK?
He has all the tools he needs for gimps still, though some are taken in the first transformation.
It is broken to hell for chars like Ice Climbers, Falco, D3 and DK, though. Cargo KOs and chaingrab KOs.
MLG rules are ********.
At Norfair, lava gets in the way of a lot of the things MK does.
Blue Yoshi, even with banning and striking, high tier characters are going to strike good stages. You're just going to start out on an annoying stage, anyway. Who wants to start out on Castle Siege, or Lylat Cruise? that's just ridiculous.
He has all the tools he needs for gimps still, though some are taken in the first transformation.
It is broken to hell for chars like Ice Climbers, Falco, D3 and DK, though. Cargo KOs and chaingrab KOs.
MLG rules are ********.
At Norfair, lava gets in the way of a lot of the things MK does.
Blue Yoshi, even with banning and striking, high tier characters are going to strike good stages. You're just going to start out on an annoying stage, anyway. Who wants to start out on Castle Siege, or Lylat Cruise? that's just ridiculous.
My biggest problem with the new stage list isn't so much the stages themselves, but that having so many legal stages will give characters way more power on their counterpicks. Think about it, the only reason to add more stages is to give characters a better CP, and by doing that they're putting even more emphasis on winning the extremely important game 1.
Blue Yoshi's list looks pretty good, despite the fact that I hate japes. (Can't KO anything with Thunder >_>) The only thing I might change is norfair.
Blue Yoshi's list looks pretty good, despite the fact that I hate japes. (Can't KO anything with Thunder >_>) The only thing I might change is norfair.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
I hate Japes. I find it to be a really annoying stage. However, although I hate it, I see it as a perfect counterpick stage.
Maybe we could say that since we're adding so many stages, people can ban 2 stages when counterpicking? That might remove some of the 'stupid' stages.
I did friendlies with Trevor, random character, random stage, and one of the results was him toon link, me meta knight, on norfair. Trevor knows how to play Toon Link fairly well, and I just plain suck at MK. up-B planking all day... resulted in either a 2-stock or 3-stock... can't remember. That stage is completely broken for Meta Knight, especially if we remove the ledge grab rule (then it's gg from the start).
Maybe we could say that since we're adding so many stages, people can ban 2 stages when counterpicking? That might remove some of the 'stupid' stages.
I did friendlies with Trevor, random character, random stage, and one of the results was him toon link, me meta knight, on norfair. Trevor knows how to play Toon Link fairly well, and I just plain suck at MK. up-B planking all day... resulted in either a 2-stock or 3-stock... can't remember. That stage is completely broken for Meta Knight, especially if we remove the ledge grab rule (then it's gg from the start).
Lib3r4t3
Smash Ace
Aside from PS2, I am in support of Rob's stagelist.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Clouderz... mm on a custom stage that I build? If stage doesn't matter, then that shouldn't be a problem for you at all.
Clouderz... mm on a custom stage that I build? If stage doesn't matter, then that shouldn't be a problem for you at all.
sure idc lol custom stages are tight
although smashville is gay because thats all brian picks in the grand finals..omg..
and who the hell is skidd do i know him? lolz
iirc the term starter has been used to replace "neutral" as we don't really have any stages that are truly neutral (no advantage for either player)
i agree w/ robs list
we should still keep the lgl as well
i agree w/ robs list
we should still keep the lgl as well
lol
bundtcake
Smash Ace
Agreed with Rob's list entirely, although personally I actually don't mind Pirate Ship as a counterpick unless somebody uses that stupid hull stalling strategy, although I doubt many people even know about that. Plus we could always just ban the strategy.
For those of you that don't know, it's when you use a move like GnW's dair's downward momentum to put you under the bottom of the ship on the right side, there's a little spot where you can stay underwater and not get instantly KO'd by the ship, making you almost impossible to reach until the boat hits the rock or gets thrown up in the air by the whirlwind