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The Winning Steak Cinemas: Video Archive & Criticism Thread Updated

Paix

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
155
Location
England

ShadoFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 11, 2008
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Happy Easter Lala Land
Thanks Kinzer lol. But no need for lies rofl

AH YES. Tenki lol.cart.2GUD! I was liek :( when it happened. Boss laughed and saved the match. Said i should of won.nou.

Also i dont know when i started using the SDJ so much. Just comes naturally to me.

And Wedge plz do. I dont see myself becoming a driving force with Scourge/Shadow anytime soon or in the future. My drive to play this game has thinned bad. You must carry my seed into the future and raep just 4 me. You and omega better make me proud.

I'll admit it. Speed is good. But if you get into his head. You can crush him Muhahahah!
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
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Fullerton, CA
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Bambatta
hahah love shados playstyle. dude i didnt even know Espy had a video up vs Dojo. Ive only seen the first one, but he did alright granted he messed up on quite a bit of key punishes. He kept coming back at you Espy with that nado! thats a free dsmash at least, fsmash if u reacted to which side he lands on. U punished it majority of the time but u didnt get it when it matters. Those are those free kills! Oh and buffer that bair first match when u shield shuttle loop. Thats your free bair.

You need to edgeguard meta a little better. drill rush to the side is a free fair or if ur RIGHT at the edge and they do it straight to the ledge you get a free fsmash if aimed downward. Its also better to just chill at the edge vs meta and punish his recovery accordingly. Love the upsmashing of the nado. aim the ftilt up if they are doing fairs. helps to contest it. Also space ftilt where they would be, not where they are if they rush in so they cant just get a nice shield slide and own u. good shield drop fsmash on the nado. Also im sure you know this already, but quick HA nado if theres space for them to pull back. long HA if u dont think itll hit him during the nado so u can still get a punish.

Watched second match. Dont Dair without at least a spring to help you, thats just asking to get utilted by meta. u need shff uairs more. especially when hes Dair camping from that height.You took unnecessary damage after your first stock. If you are long range spin dashing get ready to either SDJ the nado, HA the nado or VSDJ (there depending on the MK you can fair into nado or if they retreat u can spin charge punish.) Even when you couldve killed him with spindash>nair u didnt. Its alot easier to get a kill on a meta by forcing him offstage if kill tricks arent working. hes been loving that sh ff fair that is a free grab right there 2; you just shouldve been able to kill him. by the time you do hes got u down 2 one at 45% and u start to pick up again. Then u started playing too aggro. Nice sh ff uair but u gotta buffer something afterwards ( jab is usually the better option) that dsmash shouldnt have hit you. U like to be in close range with meta too much and thats how u get combo'ed like crazy. Stick with hit and run tactics. Its better to space than go for that super risky string. Follow ups are good u just gotta come right with the spacing. Cuz thats what was messing you up on alot of things. whether it was dairing into uair, whiffing a bair and getting punished. or Misjudging your timing and spacing of spin charge so a nado becomes a valid option in situation u placed them in. If you are going to spin charge, spin charge, but if u delay ur timing; be prepared to punish a nado because that has a very likely chance of occuring. VSDJ is always the best option to deter a nado then go straight into a punishment.



Hope im not coming off like an ***, just wanna see you get better at the matchup. Thats just what i see. Hopefully some of that will resonate with you. Keep doing work Espy. You make us Sonics proud.

Wedge make me a steak.
 

ShadoFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,229
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Happy Easter Lala Land
I dont think thats me or tk broski..maybe. I just dont remember fighting those matches tho. It looks like from the 5 dollar venue tourney so maybe i forgot because of time..i dunno. Hmmmm...let me look at it on a comp and off my ****ty phone.
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
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Fullerton, CA
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Bambatta
In due time Mr. KID lol. then you can talk crap on me all day haha. Naw itd be good to get all of your input. And Espy, im just going by what i saw; Im sure you are aware of many things u did wrong. Just giving my 2 cents; sometimes different perspectives help. This is a critiquing thread after all.


Shado 4 Kaiser.
 

WedginatorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,006
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Holding side-B against Cheese until he quits.

ShadoFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,229
Location
Happy Easter Lala Land
What does Kaiser mean? Lolz

Also Wedge. I wish i could help. But i honestly dont know how to play this game. I mash buttons and hope something good happens.

And i checked those matches. Yea thats me. but thats not TKO
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
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Kinzer
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I'm crap at dealing with nados.

Lol the hate x.x
Well if it makes you feel any better you're not alone, and considering I'm playing offline when it should be easier to punish I have no excuse for sucking so bad.
 

NH Cody

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
2,638
Location
Kakariko Village, NH
I watched your videos, Kupo. I like the hax.

And I realized I don't know how to critique Sonic, that's probably why I'm nothing past decent with him Dx

All I can add is that there were some times where you used smashes instead of a tilt, like ftilt or dtilt. And instead of usmashing when MK is in the air you could try utilting. When you knew nado was coming you just stood there...? You have to shield those lol

...all I got ._.

oh and you have to share with me how to get those awesome hax lol.
 

B.A.M.

Smash Lord
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1,538
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Fullerton, CA
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Bambatta
Eff you Frio. Noone is looking for your bootleg service.

But seriously. Heres some tips for nado:

if you are in any spin and you see a nado. VSDJ or DJ. if they continue to advance you fall in and fair. Fair interrupts nado very well. If they retreat get ready to spin charge and punish or HA. Nair is sometimes good to vs nado and with its soft hit you can usually get a grab afterwards. nado startup is 10 frames. Use that knowledge to determine followups when you are in close proximity. If you are shielding full hop OoS and read from there. If you arent doing anything you can get some good punishes. You can run away and spin charge to punish because by the time nado gets to u itll be over. You can just walk away from nado ( our walk is pretty fast) then fsmash/dsmash/tilts (dtilt *****) grab/ DA. DDP is awesome if your opponent likes to fake retreats, but if u arent good with that Id say walking is the best thing. If you get caught in nado You must DI away and up when you take the intial hit. That determines usually if you can fair out of it, DJ and punish or even just avoiding the final hitbox and punishing MK's landing. when you are under a good MK up b, ff fair or HA is ur best bet as it snuffs out the usual Nado, Shuttle Loop (dependant on how high you are) or ill conceived uairs. Try not to preemptively AD thats how you get owned. Time them. As for SL be aware of where u are as far as its hitboxes go, ( whether youre in the weak one, the invincible one etc)

Theres more but thats decent for Nado ish.

Wedge im gonna watch the vids drop my 2 cents.

EDIT: watched first vid.

Loved the sh ff uair crossup that thing is always great it my eyes. Also as you were probably noticing it is great to pick up naners. Nice read with the spring gimp; when you play your cards right you can get those quite a bit ( although Rookie couldve side b> up b to live). I would suggest to you though to just wait at the edge when diddy is offstage. Punish the Side B with a smash,tilt (tipper dtilt is gimpalicous) grab, or edgehog. If you edgehog side b, and theyve used their DJ already let go ASAP and spring for GG for the most part. Second stock u were having trouble killing. Just get him offstage and make a read for the kill. It helps a ton. I personally find just waiting and reacting to his recovery great, if not just for the kill but also damage. We can stay from a relatively safe distance and still punish alot of ppl recovery. Use that knowledge

Use JCT!! it gives better naner control which helps you juggle and follow up really easy vs diddy. Also SDSCGT or SDSCJCT messes with ppls minds. Try to get grabs more from naner trips to rack more damage and more often better follow up potential. Its good to get them in the air so you can set up some little naner traps from below or throw a naner at them and punish ( usually with an uair just incase they know how to instant toss). Learning instant tossing helps a bit too. Makes them think twice about mindlessly throwing naners.

Work on some naner combos. We got things like ASC footstool>naner dthrow> bair> forward glide toss> stuff. If you have at least a couple setups besides the standard glidetoss>grab and the glidetoss>fsmash you could rack up even more damage. Usually Diddy would get more follow ups on you so you have to be able to supersede his damage racking. Also learn to pick up naners with Spin dashes, and even get comfortable with fighting with straight spin dashes untill u have to use the naner. Every time you pick up a naner doesnt mean u have to throw it right after.

Iono if you didnt by accident or not (im assuming not) but good ish as well with side b. Abuse those invincibilty frames. Diddys love to glidetoss mid rage into stuff. And if they see u spinning alot of times you can time ur release to pass through the naner and punish the diddy. Umm remember diddys foxtrot is short. So sometimes you make thing u got him becuz hes in his dashing animation and he'll just ps u and own u.

Ill tell you right now being able to edgeguard diddy appropiately really aids us in the matchup. Also naners give Sonic more mindgames that most ontop of his own and supplement his playstyle VERY well. We are bomb with items. Diddy is a beast himself with all aerials, good shield, speed, and priority. However we get priority in the form of naners and following up with a naner compared to our usual is childs play if you just think a bit about what youre doing. Try not to go into autopilot and youre good.

Nice Glidetoss>fsmash. You played solid and you were in control for the majority of the match. Try to play more reactive when hes offstage; it pays off big time. Need a kill? get him offstage. Grabs are easier to obtain with naner techs and traps. throw him off and do work. You do that more often, that first match wouldve been a 2 stock and not down to the wire.


o one last thing. Dont roll so much. You stopped it later on, but in the beginning you were rolling backwards. When you are playing Mr. Naners thats the equivalent of throwing out a taunt. Keep doing work wedge!
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
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Louisiana
Noob question coming, but what's the input for a jump cancelled toss? My guess is inputting jump, and then throwing the item before it happens, but I'm not sure.
 

Zatchiel

a little slice of heaven 🍰
Joined
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Better asked in the Q&A Thread, but just input a Jump out of a dash and use the Cstick(Or whatever you're using) to throw the item.
 

~TBS~

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
2,097
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Rolling around at the speed of Sound, Maryland.
New vids....

Speed vs ADHD R1 & R2 :urg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPyuwWM4I18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJuaU6CQuU&feature=channel

Speed vs Boss R1 and R2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-3iSUtQyfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJSUdbp-giM&feature=channel

MIB vs Speed R1 (R2 will be uploaded later)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c49X4UcDs0&feature=channel

TKO+Speed vs TUSM and MIB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk9adDNrnvU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYzG2tnNhNc

I need alot of help guys...tear me apart. I feel that i've been playing weird lately. Any patterns, bad choices, too much spindashes, things like that.
 

ShadoFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
1,229
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Happy Easter Lala Land
I only watched the Boss matches speed. And let me tell you..You piss me off with your two stocking his luigi and then ****** the Mario for free..After i had so much trouble vs him.

Ugh lolz. The gap between us had grown to far. I dont know if it's my playstyle or urs butttt..I need to get better.
 

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
New vids....

Speed vs ADHD R1 & R2 :urg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPyuwWM4I18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJuaU6CQuU&feature=channel

Speed vs Boss R1 and R2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-3iSUtQyfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJSUdbp-giM&feature=channel

MIB vs Speed R1 (R2 will be uploaded later)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c49X4UcDs0&feature=channel

TKO+Speed vs TUSM and MIB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk9adDNrnvU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYzG2tnNhNc

I need alot of help guys...tear me apart. I feel that i've been playing weird lately. Any patterns, bad choices, too much spindashes, things like that.
Maybe it's just me, but in ADHD Round 2 (Rainbow Cruise) at around 2:35-2:40--the ship was sinking and ADHD nearly knocked you off the right side--couldn't you still have landed on the highest point of the ship? The spike that came right after nearly took a stock. Or were you that confident it wouldn't KO you?

Beyond that (and even maybe with that--hindsight=20/20) nothing worse than me in here.
 

Exceladon City

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
6,037
Location
The Lonesome Crowded Midwest
I only watched the 1st vid. One thing you should do as it works wonders on Fox from pretty much any character that doesn't move like Ganon, is camp Fox's landing. Fox has like 1 reliable way to make it to the ground and that is Dair. Shine stalling will work to an extent but you can spring up if you predict one and wreck him for it.

I can't wait to play Asdioh. I hope he goes to TBB's Saturday, I'll MM him. I need some free money. My :sonic: > Any :fox: not named TKD.
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJxRs3veEE - Espy (Sonic) vs. Dekar (Diddy Kong) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXGdVZ0GW1Y - Espy (Sonic) vs. Dekar (Diddy Kong) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NT-X-DD1Qg - Espy (Sonic) vs. Dekar (Diddy Kong) 3

They were put up awfully fast.
I should have some more videos from this past weekend up soon.
Great set. I loved that pictochat match. Why didn't that diddy just do something to clink with spindash? Was he afraid of getting the timing wrong?
 
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