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Does a lack of "true combos" hurt Brawl?

LegendofLink

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I've been playing Smash Bros. since Melee came out, though only casually because I was too young to go to tournaments. Now that I'm in college, I'm able to play with a much wider range of people, including those who are frequent tournament goers.

A couple of the people that I have met extremely dislike Brawl compared to Melee (not that uncommon of an opinion), and what their problem with it boiled down to, even more so than the obvious flaws like tripping and character balance (not that melee was much better in that respect), was combos, or Brawl's lack thereof.

I, on the other hand, don't see why that is a problem, I see it as making that game more about reading , predicting, and overall outsmarting that opponent to land consecutive hits than relying on one's ability to perfectly press the right buttons in the correct sequence after landing the first hit.

This is also quite evident in our choice of mods. I really like Balanced Brawl, because it fixes my problem with the game, character and stage viability. My friends, on the other hand, prefer Brawl+ because it allows them to combo effectively.

What are your opinions on this? Are combos really so important that a game without very many of them is simply worse than one with them?
 

Claire Diviner

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An interesting question, but the answers you'll get will be varied among individuals. I personally see no problem with Brawl or its mechanics (save for tripping). I like the prediction-based style of it. That said, I'm certain half the community will say the same thing, whilst the other half will prefer Melee because of the ability to combo.
 

UberMario

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Brawl DOES have combos, however, they are shorter than in SSB an Melee (the former could go 0-to-ko, the latter could string around 4-7 attacks including chaingrabs), in Brawl, you can usually get two-to-five moves in on a person without them being able to escape in any form. Also, the speed has something to do with the low amount of combos, the quicker the game is, the harder to read which attack is coming next, the slower, the more time you have to react accordingly.
 

The Star King

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Brawl is so ridiculously limited in terms of combos, though, it virtually has none.

I personally hate Brawl moreso for its slow and defensive style. Lack of combos is definitely a factor though.
 

fenyx4

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I guess it hurts Brawl slightly, in some players' eyes. But I personally don't mind, and I actually like how Brawl limits combos. I haven't played Melee for a long while so I haven't compared the hitstuns of both games through experience (from what I've heard, minimized hitstun is Brawl is one of the main reasons for lack of combos). Zero to KO, while epic and cool, is a bit...shall I say, excessive for a combo. The player should at least get a few chances to slip in a few shots and fight back/retaliate.

...Would it be appropriate to say Brawl is a true C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!? :awesome:

(sorry, it's just I've wanted to use that meme somehow for some time now...)
 

Big-Cat

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I, on the other hand, don't see why that is a problem, I see it as making that game more about reading , predicting, and overall outsmarting that opponent to land consecutive hits than relying on one's ability to perfectly press the right buttons in the correct sequence after landing the first hit.
The thing is, that's kind of a fundamental trait any fighting game has. IMO, and this is a big generalization and simplification since I could never fully understand DI, DI is really another take on the 50/50 mixup pressure you have in other fighters. In other fighters, you can have a combo end and then you guess right on the hit after that lets you go into another. Be mindful that I was talking about primarily okizeme there.

As said, I don't think the lack of combos hurts Brawl necessarily. The Melee ones were more about juggles and comboing with aerials (which was only really possible with L-Canceling) as opposed to other fighters where you would have ground combos and, depending on the fighter, air and ground to air combos (Marvel and Guilty Gear being prime examples). If we want combos back, the gameplay would have to have significant changes (ie. revolver actions and maybe one more attack button).

What hurts Brawl the most, IMO, is the following:

1. Very floaty gameplay. This was to bring more of an emphasis on aerial gameplay, but not everyone benefits from this and I don't see why the change was done in the first place.

2. Defensive gameplay. Trying to play and watch Brawl is torture for me if I can't play offensively.

3. Punishment is not so big. At least with combos, you can punish someone for making a mistake. I can see why this would be unfair, but there has to be a balance. You can't let them get off with just a hit, but you can't let them get KO's so easily.
 

PD4FR

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People only say the lack of combos hurt Brawl because they expected the game to be more similar to Melee than it actually was. This is Brawl, not Melee, guys. It is its own game.

I personally like the defensive style of Brawl. It's nice, different, and refreshing.
 

JOE!

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originally had this in the blogs thing, but then that all got messed up...

may as well post it here as it's highly relavent.


So yeah, I've been doing some pondering latley, and something that has come up alot over the past few years whenever the "Brawl vs Melee" debate comes up. Specifically this one complaint I see time and time again:

"Brawl sucks because it doesnt have combos" and/or "Melee has combos, so it's much deeper".

I never really thought much of it before, as I saw it as more of a thng of preferance (as there -are- combos in Brawl, just not as spectacular as they apparently are in melee). But now that I've given it some thought, why exactly do combos "make" a fighter?

In my opinion, a combo is simply a prolonged string of hits, be it a tilt lock or a continuous string of different moves you managed to get together. But there is a limit to almost all combos: the engine. The game's engine, specifically the physics engine, is what allows characters to pull off these strings, based on how characters get hit and get knocked around/etc (depending on the game) and become vulnerable enough to be hit again before they recover.

Right away this should raise a red flag about the way most "true fighters" work. Based on the way combos happen, to me it seems as if you arent really fighting your opponent, but rather the engine as you attempt to follow up your inputs on your "dummy", since that guy is locked in hitstun/whatever, and cant really do **** until the combo cannot be continued/he dies/etc. How is that a "fighting" game when you are barely going toe to toe with your adversary? Sure, there is fighting at the start, but thats all to set up that key move that usually starts up that string, and then **** ensues. Thats fighting your opponent for 10% of the match, then the actual game the other 90% as you follow up the physics until you cant...then go back to square one of hitting that set-up.

I got into fighters for the competition, not to show off how well I can abuse a game engine. Which leads me to another thing that irks me about combo-centric fighters: inevitabley, the "combo-*****" characters are the bar-none best choices. By that, I mean that in any given fighter, 9/10 times the best character is the fast little guy who can zip around, and hit you once and begin a stupidly good chain of attacks that cause massive damage, then either zip out and restart that till you die, or whatever else is benifical in that game. Again, in my opinion these characters arent even designed to be "good" usually. By design, they are usually balanced out by being very frail with either low weight/health, or frailty to combos themselves. However, that is horribly off-set by the fact that these are the characters that abuse the physics the best, so in turn they -are- the best as the best players are the ones that can abuse the egine best with the best abuser of the engine from the roster.

Not to start this debate again, but look at the top tier in Melee and Brawl. In melee, the combo-centric one of the two, the top characters consist of the characters that abuse the game's engine the best, and all have essentially the same playstyle with slight variation: Fox and Falco are the silly-fast traditional combo-whores, Shiek is similar, but with less "tricks" and more "shennanigans" (aka CGs and locks, etc), Marth is similar to them, but slightly slower (however he makes up for this with just sheer range), and Jiggs is a unique case in that she has the silly combos like Fox/Falco/Shiek do (as well as a great finisher) as well as the excellent gimping power Marth has (just without the range). However, all these can be kinda clumped into "rushdown", aka the fighting game archetype I described above as the little guy who can zip in, do a ton of damage/etc in a combo, and be relativley safe as long as they reliably land the first hit.

Now lets look at the top 5 in Brawl, which is regarded as having very little combo-centric properties. We have MK, who ironically seems to be built for the role of the combo-*****, but is best for a whole other slew of reasons (mainly that everythign he does is safe and that he has the best options for like everything), Snake is a slow and strong fighter with stage control elements and an ability to tank damage like nobody else can. Right away that deviates from the "standard" in that a top-tier isnt a super-fast combo character (that isnt broken...arguably). Diddy is a whole other can of worms as he is essentially one big mindgame as his banannas force situations which he takes advantage of, Falco this time around plays out like more of a ranged fighter who has some combos, but then mainly punishes with his epic laser, and finally the ICs have a totally unique 2in1 style, as well as a terrifying grab-focus.

Looking at the two we have Melee with it's best characters as I've described: 5 "combo-whores" who are excellent at abusing the physics moreso than the other fighters, and Brawl with a comparitivley much more varied top tier with 5 different-enough playstyles (esp with Snake) to get a comparison here.

Don't get me wrong, combos can be fun as hell to do/watch, and Brawl has a bunch of issues in it's own right to offset what I've said about Melee. It's just that from what I've experienced, combo-based fighters kinda suck the spirit out of fighting games, especially those with varied rosters, as they only provide buffers for the players to weed out before they find the combo-whores of the game and **** with them. I mean, would Snake even be this good if Brawl kept melee's physics, or he would just be more combo-fodder for Fox?

 

Hyper_Ridley

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I wouldn't say a lack of combos hursts Brawl so much as it's difficult to succesfully get an offensive attack to land, so some more combo potential would have helped give offense some more reward.

Personally, I'm not really a fan of combos unless they're really quick. Watching an epic combo is fun when it's not so common, but I'd rather spend the match interacting with my opponent than one of us watching our character being launched around. Though for some reason Marvel vs Capcom 2 is one of my favorite fighters...lol
 

Grim Tuesday

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I dislike Brawl because it is so slow, defensive and un-technical.

The combos doesn't bother me, I like Smash 64 because of the 0>Deaths cause they are cool to watch and pull off, yet I like Brawl because it is more emphasized on prediction.
 

Sovereign

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I dislike Brawl because it is so slow, defensive and un-technical.
There are plenty of things technical about Brawl. It's when you don't hit the L/R-button after every move you want to cancel lag with or wavedash in out that makes it less technical in some players' eyes.
 

LegendofLink

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Thanks for the input guys. On the topic of the game being "too defensive", I believe that this line of thinking comes from the fact that in Brawl, unlike Melee, in each match leaves one character forced to approach and one character trying to stop and punish their approach. This is because the difference in camping ability between characters is drastically greater than is was in the past.

For example, look at one of the more common match-ups in competitive Melee: Fox vs. Falco. Both characters could be quite campy if they chose to, but they were practically equally matched in that regard, meaning deciding who approached came down to playstyle and strategy rather than strict character roles.

In Brawl, on the other hand, has a much greater emphasis on character-specific roles and playstyles, practically deciding who camps and who approaches right from the outset of the match. Take a look at a game between Snake and Meta Knight. Both are quite adept at camping, similar to the Fox/Falco example above, but MK is forced to approach in almost every game (not that he has any trouble doing so, but thats another problem). This is because Brawl's characters each has their own specific style of play that determines their necessary role in the game depending who they are up against. Snake may force MK to approach, but if he were playing against Falco, He would instead have to make an approach due to the speed and versatility of Falco's lasers. If Falco were against Wolf, though, Wolf would attempt to control the center of the stage while reflecting Falco's lasers and spacing his shorter ranged ones so they wouldn't be reflected as well, forcing Falco to approach. But Snake would be able to force Wolf to approach due to his explosives' splash damage..... and you can see where this is going.

Brawl therefore seems more defensive because character roles are a bit more strict, leaving the same player on the defensive/offensive for an entire match instead of the more fluid (for lack of a better word) dynamic between a player's preferences and choice of technique and how their character plays against a given opponent.

Is this a bad thing? Not really, but it all boils down to personal preference in the end.
 

TL?

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Combos are fun but I think a smash game could work out fine without a big focus on combos. The main problems I have with brawl are: all the grab release glitches/expliots, the chaingrabs/infinites, no dashdance or sheild in initial dash, footstooling, planking, and poor character balance.

Personally, I prefer higher hitstun and more combos, but like I said, I think you could make a solid smash game with low hitstun.
 

LegendofLink

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Combos are fun but I think a smash game could work out fine without a big focus on combos. The main problems I have with brawl are: all the grab release glitches/expliots, the chaingrabs/infinites, no dashdance or sheild in initial dash, footstooling, planking, and poor character balance.

Personally, I prefer higher hitstun and more combos, but like I said, I think you could make a solid smash game with low hitstun.
While I do agree with some of these, others aren't problems at all. I always found dash dancing to be rather pointless and it doesn't really change anything now that it isn't there. Sure, you can say that it was for mindgames, but you can accomplish the exact same thing by just standing still. You can dash in either direction just as if you were dash dancing, and you also have access your tilts, jab and smashes, as well as the dash attack, u-smash and ariels you could do while dash dancing.

Being unable to shield during the initial dash animation allow you to punish people who made the mistake of committing to a dash too late, adding to the risk/reward dynamic of many maneuvers in the game.

Footstooling really only adds depth, as it is a simple tool that almost every character can use to set up plenty of follow ups, and adds to the dynamic of predicting and reading your opponent's actions.
 

Grim Tuesday

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There are plenty of things technical about Brawl. It's when you don't hit the L/R-button after every move you want to cancel lag with or wavedash in out that makes it less technical in some players' eyes.
Having to press L/R after every aerial IS technical. It is much more satisfying pulling off a combo in Melee than Brawl+ (which has auto-cancelling). Just watch a Fox ditto compared to a Meta Knight ditto, and you can easily see how much more technical it is.
 

JOE!

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it's technical in that *you* did it, if it;s auto-canceld I'm assuming it just doesnt feel right?
 

Hyper_Ridley

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L-canceling is one bit of technicality I can do without. For a series that prides itself on its simple 2-button control scheme, having a more complex/dfficult input to perform a normal-aerial than it takes to perform special mvoes in Street Fighter is pretty jarring.
 

Sovereign

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Having to press L/R after every aerial IS technical. It is much more satisfying pulling off a combo in Melee than Brawl+ (which has auto-cancelling). Just watch a Fox ditto compared to a Meta Knight ditto, and you can easily see how much more technical it is.
I really won't see anything. One ditto is more focused on the first pop-up and who can complete the entire combo first, whereas the second one focuses on who has the better spacing, zoning, and overall who knows the character better.

I can easily say that Melee reminds of Tekken; Whoever gets the first pop-up will either take the lead or win.
 

Grim Tuesday

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I really won't see anything. One ditto is more focused on the first pop-up and who can complete the entire combo first, whereas the second one focuses on who has the better spacing, zoning, and overall who knows the character better.

I can easily say that Melee reminds of Tekken; Whoever gets the first pop-up will either take the lead or win.
You have never played Melee, goodbye.
 

Seikend

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I really won't see anything. One ditto is more focused on the first pop-up and who can complete the entire combo first, whereas the second one focuses on who has the better spacing, zoning, and overall who knows the character better.

I can easily say that Melee reminds of Tekken; Whoever gets the first pop-up will either take the lead or win.
There's this thing called DI. While melee has 0 to deaths, it's (in the vast majority of cases) not just pressing the same series of buttons as soon as you get the first pop-up. You need to react to your opponent's DI and therefore can't just do the same thing everytime. And getting the first pop up involves concepts such as spacing and zoning. Learn to play Melee before you make absurd assumptions please.

Anyway, on topic.

I find that the lack of true combos makes the game less enjoyable personally, but I know that's not the case for everyone. And it certainly doesn't make the game less competitive. So no, it doesn't really hurt Brawl.
 

Big-Cat

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I don't think my problem with Brawl was the lack of combos (especially since I felt most combos I saw in Melee videos were juggles and air combos), but rather that hits just didn't seem rewarding. In some cases, it was the "muffled" sound effects, but other times, it seemed like you didn't get enough reward for punishing.

Actually, I have other problems with Brawl, as mentioned earlier, but the above was one of the main reasons I left Brawl for Street Fighter.
 

Xebenkeck

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Yes a lack of combos does hurt brawl, because there is no incentive to go offensive, the risk is not worth the reward. I can approach and risk taking damage, or sit here, spam a projectile, or sword and make them take that risk, that is what brawls gameplay comes down to. If there were combos, the amount of damage you can give is more than the damage you could recieve by approaching, so the risk is worth the reward, where in brawl it is not. An example is DDD, he can sit there, shield grab, chain-grab you for 30-40%, when at most you could inflict is maybe 15-20% before having to reapprach him again, and take the risk again.
 

Moxin

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I really won't see anything. One ditto is more focused on the first pop-up and who can complete the entire combo first, whereas the second one focuses on who has the better spacing, zoning, and overall who knows the character better.

I can easily say that Melee reminds of Tekken; Whoever gets the first pop-up will either take the lead or win.
I really don't understand where you're coming from at all. A very small part of fox dittos, say, jcing a shine with a shffld aerial, is more technical than anything you'd see in a mk ditto.

For some reason you think melee doesn't involve spacing and zoning, which I really do not get because spacing and zoning are perhaps more important than brawl because not only are they vital parts of high level play, but it's much more high risk to mess up spacing or take an nair from fox if you get into his nair zone.

And it's really stupid to say that you don't have to know the character better for dittos. I shouldn't have to explain myself here.

Oh, and for the record, comebacks are much more common in melee and prove that you aren't going to win a match just by juggling someone. If any character in either game gets a solid start they're obviously going to be in the lead (lol) and may win the match (duh).

Edit: I play brawl too so im not trying to start a brawl vs melee thing, just correcting ignorance.
 

JOE!

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@Moxin:

yes, but whoever gets the 1st pop up that stock usually sweeps that stock
 

PD4FR

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People only say the lack of combos hurt Brawl because they expected the game to be more similar to Melee than it actually was. This is Brawl, not Melee, guys. It is its own game.

I personally like the defensive style of Brawl. It's nice, different, and refreshing.
Aspects of the game only hurt it if you want them to!
Finally, someone agrees with me. This is why I listen to newer members as well as the older ones. <3

You guys are saying that Brawl was hurt by a lack of combos when in reality it is only you preferring Melee over Brawl. Brawl was not hurt, it's just different.

:040:
 

Moxin

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@Moxin:

yes, but whoever gets the 1st pop up that stock usually sweeps that stock
Only if they're perfect with every waveland/ techchase, l cancel... etc during the combo. The only person that literally takes a stock if he gets the jump on you is MaNg0-- not all of the time, even for him-- and he's mind blowing.. To say that you usually sweep a stock from a pop up is very, very unrealistic.

Show me a recent video with someone taking an entire stock 70% of the time they start up a combo who isn't MaNg0 vs people not in the top 4.
 

Rhubarbo

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Melee offers everything Brawl offers. Melee however delivers a more dynamic, faster paced experience. It has been stated many times that Brawl's combat mechanics were limited in order to compensate players new to the franchise. Masahiro Sakurai, the creator of Smash, intended Brawl to be a game played over social gatherings.
 

LegendofLink

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Melee offers everything Brawl offers. Melee however delivers a more dynamic, faster paced experience. It has been stated many times that Brawl's combat mechanics were limited in order to compensate players new to the franchise. Masahiro Sakurai, the creator of Smash, intended Brawl to be a game played over social gatherings.
But Brawl does offer things that keep me from just giving up and going back to Melee:

1) Characters: 26 characters including 6 clones < 39 characters with no clones, simple as that. The only problem character is MK, but while he doesn't have any "bad" matchups, he has plenty that put it in the realm of player skill deciding who wins, not just "pick MK, win, lol".

2) Character specific tech: While a lot of Melee's fundamental tech was practically universal (i.e. Wavedash, L-cancel), Brawl has much more tech unique to each character than Melee did. This emphasizes the differences in playstyle between characters, which in turn leads back to reason #1 as to why I prefer Brawl over Melee.

Now Brawl does have its problems (****ing tripping), and going by strict competitive merit Melee is the better game. But by that reasoning Chess is a better game than both of them, so why bother? It all comes down to fun. The large majority of people find Brawl to be more fun than Melee, so Brawl succeeds Melee in the world of gaming (because that's the purpose of games, entertainment, right?).
 

Rhubarbo

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The large majority of people find Brawl to be more fun than Melee, so Brawl succeeds Melee in the world of gaming (because that's the purpose of games, entertainment, right?).
This is a partially flawed argument. You see, while casual gamers/Smashers may appreciate Brawl more than Melee, it is simply due to the additional "peripheral" content. Hardcore Smashers that pick up on the nuances of both games will more than likely select Melee as the better game.

Yes, Brawl does feature a much more diverse group of characters, but if the fun you can achieve with that larger cast doesn't match the smaller one, which is truly more dynamic?

As for character specific techniques, they too heavily existed in Melee. I'm not going to list each cst in both Melee and Brawl, but I'd wager to say the number is pretty close. Melee, while possilby having less csts, did have a more advanced approach game, thus allowing players to use each character's moveset more creatively. Don't forget that.

As a Smasher that has likely poured over 1000 hours of playing/talking about Smash games, I have to say Melee is my game of choice. That isn't to say choosing Brawl isn't a valid decision; the larger cast is definitely appealing. I might pop Brawl back into my Wii when Project M comes out though :p
 

MarioMariox2

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The main qualm I have is the fact that it's not easy to have a rushdown style of play and not be metaknight.

/bais
 

LegendofLink

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This is a partially flawed argument. You see, while casual gamers/Smashers may appreciate Brawl more than Melee, it is simply due to the additional "peripheral" content. Hardcore Smashers that pick up on the nuances of both games will more than likely select Melee as the better game.

Yes, Brawl does feature a much more diverse group of characters, but if the fun you can achieve with that larger cast doesn't match the smaller one, which is truly more dynamic?

As for character specific techniques, they too heavily existed in Melee. I'm not going to list each cst in both Melee and Brawl, but I'd wager to say the number is pretty close. Melee, while possilby having less csts, did have a more advanced approach game, thus allowing players to use each character's moveset more creatively. Don't forget that.

As a Smasher that has likely poured over 1000 hours of playing/talking about Smash games, I have to say Melee is my game of choice. That isn't to say choosing Brawl isn't a valid decision; the larger cast is definitely appealing. I might pop Brawl back into my Wii when Project M comes out though :p
I already conceded that Melee was the better competitive game, but you can't deny that Brawl has greatly overtaken Melee popularity-wise, even quickly taking its spot in the MLG circuit when Halo 2 and 3 managed to co-exist on the circuit for some time after Halo 3 was released. Perhaps the "newness" of the game had something to do with it, but that couldn't have been the whole reason. Also, fun is subjective, so your version of fun is slightly different than my version ;)

As far as cst's are concerned, Melee certainly did have them, but if I remember correctly (and I might not, so correct me if I'm wrong), they tended to be more common among the low-mid tier characters, with the more popular characters only having 1 or 2 at most:

-Space Animals didn't really have any, unless you count SHDL's and such, but that's more similar to SHFFL'd aerials than cst's.

-Shiek had nifty edgehog shenanigans with up-b and needle canceling

-Marth was just all about incredible disjointed range and perfect spacing

-I'm not sure about Jigglypuff since I stopped following the Melee metagame before she became really popular.

-Captain Falcon had moonwalking (which he shared with some other characters, but his was most useful) and thats about it.

-Peach did have tons, due to both turnips and floating

-Ice Climbers had super chaingrabs and at least 2 banned techniques but they're probably the weirdest character in the game and deserve all of that tech.
 

Rohins

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2) Character specific tech: While a lot of Melee's fundamental tech was practically universal (i.e. Wavedash, L-cancel), Brawl has much more tech unique to each character than Melee did. This emphasizes the differences in playstyle between characters, which in turn leads back to reason #1 as to why I prefer Brawl over Melee.
I disagree. There is a ton to learn about individual characters in Melee, never felt that I had more to put into a character in Brawl. Your reasoning is fine, it just means *you* know more about your individual characters in Brawl than you do in Melee. Nothing inherent within the game.

Edit:


-Space Animals didn't really have any, unless you count SHDL's and such, but that's more similar to SHFFL'd aerials than cst's.

-Shiek had nifty edgehog shenanigans with up-b and needle canceling
Spacies - jumping out of shine opens up a ton of character specific options: shine->upsmash, shine->jc grab, shine->wavedash, shine->turn->bair, shine->(edge cancel the jump) That's all from one base move. You can edge cancel sideB. Fox has some autocancels with platforms. I don't main spacies so I can't really speak for too much more, get Silent Wolf in here and he'll write you a book of character specific things you can do with spacies.

Sheik - Most autocancels in Melee. In a game where most characters need L cancel to be fast Sheik can get by with less lag and pressing less buttons. Sheik's backwards shorthop is the perfect height for the platforms on stadium, her normal short hop allows you to do a completely horizontal waveland on those platforms. She can isai drop her needles. She has the shortest dash to run animation if you hold the stick allowing you the crouch the earliest from run but if you let go of the stick it allows you to take advantage of a decently long dash dance.

There's def more, I don't main these guys.
 

LegendofLink

Smash Apprentice
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When I first wrote that up, my line of reasoning when it came to shine shenanigans was that it was no different that any other character doing something out of shield, but I guess that shine is a smidgen faster than shield so it does make a difference.

After quite a bit of thought, I think that I came to a final conclusion about why I like Brawl so much: I sucked at Melee. There was such a physical barrier between being good at the game casually and being good at the game competitively, and I, for the life of me, could not get my fingers to move that fast (the same reason that I'm terrible at competitive RTS's like Starcraft). Brawl opened thing up for me, because I no longer had to have amazing dexterity to compete. I just needed to use my head and outwit the opponent. Melee players feel slighted because that skill that they had before has been downplayed, and that is completely understandable. I'm just happy that I don't need awesome physical abilities to be good at a game I like.
 

Big-Cat

Challenge accepted.
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I'm not going to watch all of them, at least right now, but that last one was not a combo. If it was, Pit shouldn't have been able to jump. The Bowser-Meta Knight one is anything but a combo. All that was using the magma wall as a "combo extender". Under normal conditions, aka no hazards involved, this "combo" would not be doable. Looking at that Diddy video, it looked like DashA into BAir is more of a valid combo.
 

MarioMariox2

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Oh boy, you've unveiled comboes in Brawl. Sakurai's gonna change the engine in SSB4 now.
 
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