exarch
doot doot doot
Ok, so the Roy forums are pretty bad right now. Although they've definitely seen worse days, I'm going to try to post an informative thread on one of Roy's more even matchups (that is tourney applicable).
General Roy vs CF strategy:
Roy vs CF is by no means unwinnable-I give a +1.5 advantage to CF. However, it is HUGELY stage dependant and therefore Roy should know his strategies. Stages will be covered at the end.
Countering Approaches
Very few matchups in smash have an overarching kill all strat for either character. This is one of them. Roy's main focus in this matchup (suprisingly) is his DED. However, I am not talking about the general spam DED idea I'm sure a lot of you have going through your head right now. What Roy should do in this matchup-when being approached-is to use the first hit of his DED to stop CF in whatever he is doing. It beats/trades with all of CF's (SH) aerials, his ground approach will be stopped as well, be it overb or an attempt to grab.
If CF tries to approach you by fullhopping a stomp, get out from under him! Any approach from the side should be discarded by Roy's DED. If Roy is continually being caught in lag; STOP USING LAGGY MOVES AND JUST USE THE FIRST HIT OF DED.
Once the first hit connects, Roy can choose to continue the DED or try one of his "combos" like grabbing or dtilting after it.
When Approaching
Be very careful when using shuffled aerials to approach CF. All of them can be CC grabbed, and Roy doesn't care for CF's grab combos. Therefore, when approaching CF you should generally be doing so from the ground. Be it dtilt, grab, or DED. If you're approaching with other ground moves you probably aren't playing Roy.
On CF's Combo-ability
Let's face it, everyone is going to get comboed when playing against CF. However, his grab should be DIed away everytime when at low %'s, and most of the time during high %s-except for changeups. If Roy can get to a platform, aim for that. This will prevent combos until the mid 40s (iirc), and Roy can fair CF out of dthrow combos later than that. Uthrow is the problem.
CF's most lethal weapon is probably the overb. The worst part is, the beginning jump-back will oftentimes throw off your overb prevention. Don't fret! It is easily CCed and can be fsmashed in retaliation. Another one of CF's main setups-his stomp-should also be CCed if Roy gets hit by it. It's much better to be on the ground than to be comboed. Just know how to tech smart.
Once Roy is in his combos, he is pretty stuck if CF is any good. So DI away and hope CF messes up--even when he knees you at lower %s (because I have been triple kneed before! x.x). However, Roy will want to DI the finishing knee up and towards. There is one way out of his combos. If Roy wants to escape the horrifying combos, and there is a CF handy to practice with, learn to smash DI out of his nair combos. Smashing either one of the hits will push Roy (and every other character) too far out of range for CF to have any hope of follow up. This will not save Roy from the uairs though-that i've found, yet.
On Roy's Combo-ability
Yes, Roy does have legitimate combos in this match, so rejoice! CF is a Fast Faller! However, I'm not going to say much here, because even though I've done some ******** things to CF in the past, it's mostly adlib comboing in melee anyways. That's part of why I like the game.
Uthrow to Fsmash works around the 30s (DI dependant of course). I can think of quite a few CF's who have lost their second jump-and consequently their stocks-to this nifty trick.
Dtilt->whatever is good too. Fsmash, aerial, grab, DED... you pick it. Remember that at higher percents, Roy can combo aerials onto platforms. Generally, PLATFORMS ARE ROY'S FRIEND.
On CF's Edgeguard
...Roy is not going to make it back. Let's face it. Always always go for the edge. If you can fake CF out off of it, DO IT. However, he can easily use ledge invulnerability to wait out your upb, then ledge stomp (CC the stomp!) -> knee Roy; or just ledgehop knee Roy.
On Roy's Edgeguard
Vital in this match is Roy's ability to edgeguard CF successfully every life. Fortunately, Roy has good relatively mobile kill moves. Fsmash CF back off if he can recover high... or jump and neutral b him out of his upb. Once CF is forced below the level, charge flare blade or fsmash. Flare Blade is harder to tech, and even if he does tech and upb back on, the flare blade damage is nice enough to generally send him back off with a fsmash. If he makes it back on any life, you're in deep ****. So don't miss those edgeguards-even if it means letting him land at mid %s.
Stages
I'm just covering random stages for now, because I don't generally play on anything but those.
DL64
Ban this stage. CF dominates Roy on this level. Not only is he good vs Marth here, he ruins Roy. The platforms give CF enough options on recovery to make edgeguarding very hard for Roy, plus the huge sides means he lives from fsmash for a long time whereas Roy still dies to knee because of his less-than-stellar recovery. The platforms are also generally too high for Roy to land a saving tech from CF's combos. If you can't ban levels and you random this...I pity you.
BF
Overall a pretty good level. One of the more neutral stages in this match (meaning CF has his +1.5 on Roy). The platforms are helpful to Roy both defensively for teching and offensively for combos. In fact, BF's platforms are probably tied for second best neutral level for Roy's combos. However, the fact they are so close to the side gives CF similar recovery options as DL. For this and DL (and pkstm?), starting edgeguards by waiting on the top platform to smash then following CF's DI and whether he falls through or not might actually be a good idea.
pkstm
Very similar to BF, as far as neutrality. These platforms help more defensively than BF's but are less useful for aggression. However, since they are spaced further away from the edge, they are less likely to be an option for his recovery. Give and take.
YS
This map slightly favors Roy, and makes the match very close. The platforms are as useful for combos as BFs (maybe even more so since the small stage means Roy can chase better), however because of the smaller stage, Roy will catch less teching breaks from CF's combos. Roy will get killed outright before CF does, but a fsmash to CF at about the same percents leads to a very nice edgeguard. If Roy spaces his flare blade right, he can catch most of the top platform in it's radius. This is key in playing CF on this map. If Roy catches CF even before he lands on the top platform, (which is possible), CF is toast. Fun level to play on.
FD
I think this map is a slight favor for Roy as well, though I'm sure many will disagree. Roy really needs to stick to his guns (over b spam) here, more than on any other level. Roy has uthrow "combos," but loses a lot of higher percentage stuff because of the lack of platforms. The lack of platforms on FD make edgeguarding easier and absolutely key in order for Roy to win. The hurt Roy takes to his teching and combos is made up for in edgeguarding... but only if he's successful.
FoD
This is CF's ban. Assuming he doesn't, it's Roy's counterpick. I generally hold this as Roy's best level, and add that to it being CF's worst, and we have a winning combination. The platforms are awesome for Roy's teching, awesome for Roy's comboing, and will let Roy sweetspot fsmash at certain heights. Roy can still flare blade through them even at their highest point! However, for CF, the platforms get in the way of his SH. Camping under platforms at that height makes it very hard for CF to do anything. I don't encourage camping, but it is useful when Roy needs a breather. I think Roy actually has an advantage-albeit small-on CF on this level.
Not bad for being spat out at 5:30 in the morning...Thanks for reading...
~Gone!
General Roy vs CF strategy:
Roy vs CF is by no means unwinnable-I give a +1.5 advantage to CF. However, it is HUGELY stage dependant and therefore Roy should know his strategies. Stages will be covered at the end.
Countering Approaches
Very few matchups in smash have an overarching kill all strat for either character. This is one of them. Roy's main focus in this matchup (suprisingly) is his DED. However, I am not talking about the general spam DED idea I'm sure a lot of you have going through your head right now. What Roy should do in this matchup-when being approached-is to use the first hit of his DED to stop CF in whatever he is doing. It beats/trades with all of CF's (SH) aerials, his ground approach will be stopped as well, be it overb or an attempt to grab.
If CF tries to approach you by fullhopping a stomp, get out from under him! Any approach from the side should be discarded by Roy's DED. If Roy is continually being caught in lag; STOP USING LAGGY MOVES AND JUST USE THE FIRST HIT OF DED.
Once the first hit connects, Roy can choose to continue the DED or try one of his "combos" like grabbing or dtilting after it.
When Approaching
Be very careful when using shuffled aerials to approach CF. All of them can be CC grabbed, and Roy doesn't care for CF's grab combos. Therefore, when approaching CF you should generally be doing so from the ground. Be it dtilt, grab, or DED. If you're approaching with other ground moves you probably aren't playing Roy.
On CF's Combo-ability
Let's face it, everyone is going to get comboed when playing against CF. However, his grab should be DIed away everytime when at low %'s, and most of the time during high %s-except for changeups. If Roy can get to a platform, aim for that. This will prevent combos until the mid 40s (iirc), and Roy can fair CF out of dthrow combos later than that. Uthrow is the problem.
CF's most lethal weapon is probably the overb. The worst part is, the beginning jump-back will oftentimes throw off your overb prevention. Don't fret! It is easily CCed and can be fsmashed in retaliation. Another one of CF's main setups-his stomp-should also be CCed if Roy gets hit by it. It's much better to be on the ground than to be comboed. Just know how to tech smart.
Once Roy is in his combos, he is pretty stuck if CF is any good. So DI away and hope CF messes up--even when he knees you at lower %s (because I have been triple kneed before! x.x). However, Roy will want to DI the finishing knee up and towards. There is one way out of his combos. If Roy wants to escape the horrifying combos, and there is a CF handy to practice with, learn to smash DI out of his nair combos. Smashing either one of the hits will push Roy (and every other character) too far out of range for CF to have any hope of follow up. This will not save Roy from the uairs though-that i've found, yet.
On Roy's Combo-ability
Yes, Roy does have legitimate combos in this match, so rejoice! CF is a Fast Faller! However, I'm not going to say much here, because even though I've done some ******** things to CF in the past, it's mostly adlib comboing in melee anyways. That's part of why I like the game.
Uthrow to Fsmash works around the 30s (DI dependant of course). I can think of quite a few CF's who have lost their second jump-and consequently their stocks-to this nifty trick.
Dtilt->whatever is good too. Fsmash, aerial, grab, DED... you pick it. Remember that at higher percents, Roy can combo aerials onto platforms. Generally, PLATFORMS ARE ROY'S FRIEND.
On CF's Edgeguard
...Roy is not going to make it back. Let's face it. Always always go for the edge. If you can fake CF out off of it, DO IT. However, he can easily use ledge invulnerability to wait out your upb, then ledge stomp (CC the stomp!) -> knee Roy; or just ledgehop knee Roy.
On Roy's Edgeguard
Vital in this match is Roy's ability to edgeguard CF successfully every life. Fortunately, Roy has good relatively mobile kill moves. Fsmash CF back off if he can recover high... or jump and neutral b him out of his upb. Once CF is forced below the level, charge flare blade or fsmash. Flare Blade is harder to tech, and even if he does tech and upb back on, the flare blade damage is nice enough to generally send him back off with a fsmash. If he makes it back on any life, you're in deep ****. So don't miss those edgeguards-even if it means letting him land at mid %s.
Stages
I'm just covering random stages for now, because I don't generally play on anything but those.
DL64
Ban this stage. CF dominates Roy on this level. Not only is he good vs Marth here, he ruins Roy. The platforms give CF enough options on recovery to make edgeguarding very hard for Roy, plus the huge sides means he lives from fsmash for a long time whereas Roy still dies to knee because of his less-than-stellar recovery. The platforms are also generally too high for Roy to land a saving tech from CF's combos. If you can't ban levels and you random this...I pity you.
BF
Overall a pretty good level. One of the more neutral stages in this match (meaning CF has his +1.5 on Roy). The platforms are helpful to Roy both defensively for teching and offensively for combos. In fact, BF's platforms are probably tied for second best neutral level for Roy's combos. However, the fact they are so close to the side gives CF similar recovery options as DL. For this and DL (and pkstm?), starting edgeguards by waiting on the top platform to smash then following CF's DI and whether he falls through or not might actually be a good idea.
pkstm
Very similar to BF, as far as neutrality. These platforms help more defensively than BF's but are less useful for aggression. However, since they are spaced further away from the edge, they are less likely to be an option for his recovery. Give and take.
YS
This map slightly favors Roy, and makes the match very close. The platforms are as useful for combos as BFs (maybe even more so since the small stage means Roy can chase better), however because of the smaller stage, Roy will catch less teching breaks from CF's combos. Roy will get killed outright before CF does, but a fsmash to CF at about the same percents leads to a very nice edgeguard. If Roy spaces his flare blade right, he can catch most of the top platform in it's radius. This is key in playing CF on this map. If Roy catches CF even before he lands on the top platform, (which is possible), CF is toast. Fun level to play on.
FD
I think this map is a slight favor for Roy as well, though I'm sure many will disagree. Roy really needs to stick to his guns (over b spam) here, more than on any other level. Roy has uthrow "combos," but loses a lot of higher percentage stuff because of the lack of platforms. The lack of platforms on FD make edgeguarding easier and absolutely key in order for Roy to win. The hurt Roy takes to his teching and combos is made up for in edgeguarding... but only if he's successful.
FoD
This is CF's ban. Assuming he doesn't, it's Roy's counterpick. I generally hold this as Roy's best level, and add that to it being CF's worst, and we have a winning combination. The platforms are awesome for Roy's teching, awesome for Roy's comboing, and will let Roy sweetspot fsmash at certain heights. Roy can still flare blade through them even at their highest point! However, for CF, the platforms get in the way of his SH. Camping under platforms at that height makes it very hard for CF to do anything. I don't encourage camping, but it is useful when Roy needs a breather. I think Roy actually has an advantage-albeit small-on CF on this level.
Not bad for being spat out at 5:30 in the morning...Thanks for reading...
~Gone!
