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Side-B Boost (& Regeneration)

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phanna

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This applies to the following characters:
  • Dr. Mario
  • Mario
  • Peach (neutral B)
  • Ice Climbers (neutral B)
  • Kirby
  • Mewtwo
  • Marth
  • Roy
They are the only characters with a first-use height bonus added to their side-b.

Characters like Bowser never get a height bonus from their side-b, and characters like Jigglypuff can gain height off every side-b regardless.

For the listed characters, they get height off the first side-b they do in the air, and cannot gain height again until they land "normally" (fall on ground without doing an aerial, waveland, land from air-dodge or up-b, or get KO'd).

Ways to "abnormally" land (and thus not have your height bonus ready) are to stand or roll up from an edge or land while doing an aerial or most special moves.

I've seen this discussed before in the Marth forums, which is where I first became aware of the nuances of this, and so I thought I'd expand and share.

It's good to keep in mind, because you'll often want a height boost, or there's also some combos that involve not having a height boost. You can use your imagination, the height differences are shown in the following brief video:

Side-B Boosting
Side-B Boosting (Updated Version)

Note: left side has the side-b booster regenerated, right side does not
 
purekorea

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I believe Doc's, Mario's and Luigi's down b tornado works in a similar fashion. It will only rise once until you land normally again.
 
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phanna

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purekorea said:
I believe Doc's, Mario's and Luigi's down b tornado works in a similar fashion. It will only rise once until you land normally again.
Click to expand...
That's actually what I used to think, but that's not exactly the case. If any of them get hit while doing their down B, they can re-start it to gain even more height (much like Ice Climbers' side-b Squall). Once the move is used, it regenerates for Mario and Dr. Mario when they stand on the ground for 1 idle frame (if you roll up to the platform, get grabbed, and thrown off, you won't have it back yet). You have to be just doing nothing for at least 1 frame. For Luigi, you only get it back by doing a tornado on the ground.

So for the side-b recoveries I mentioned in the first post, you get it back by landing normally. For mario and doc, you get their down-b back from standing normally. Very similar, but keep the difference in mind.
 
PimpUigi

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Luigi's will only rise if you end your down B on the ground first.

It doesn't matter when your down B ends, as long as it's on the ground.
So someone can hit you while you're doing your down B on the ground, and it will count.

Then you can rise with it.
If someone hits you in the first few frames of you using your down B in the air, it won't take away the rise ability, and you can still rise.
(maybe first five frames or so)
 
B0mbe1c

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Yes, these characters are lucky because they have this ability. But then again, FAlco/FOx can hover for a few frames with shine, so it makes it easier for them to recover.
 
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phanna

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Tonyman said:
Great to know this, i often with Marth do all side-b's i can, but i guess it doesnt help, from now on i'll do one only.
Click to expand...
That's correct, and it made me laugh that you said that, because my friends and I always used to do that (for instance, spam roy's side b when recovering lol). But yes, you want to use it once, possibly right as you get hit out if you're a character like Kirby, but if you're like marth or mario, you want to save it to mindgame when you get back near the edge. Roy and Doc's are pretty bad, but still better than nothing.
 
Fortress | Sveet

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actually with marth you have 3 sidebs before they stop giving you height. first one is the best, but on the 4th you will actually fall straight down with little horizontal gain.
 
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phanna

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Sveet said:
actually with marth you have 3 sidebs before they stop giving you height. first one is the best, but on the 4th you will actually fall straight down with little horizontal gain.
Click to expand...
Marth works the same way as everyone else in this thread - the first (regenerated) one gives a height bonus, and subsequent (unregenerated) ones will just slow your horizontal and vertical momentum (some characters more than other). You can tell that Marth's unregenerated side-b's are all the same from the beginning of the updated vid:

Side-B Boosting (Updated Version)

exarch said:
What about Peach's toad?

Thanks definitely helps explain very dissappointing circumstances i've had with roy in the past.
Click to expand...
Argh can't believe I missed that one, Peach had to be unique and have hers be a neutral B, well lah-dee-dah. Yes, I checked it and it's exactly the same (see updated vid above) -- the first (regenerated) use gives a slight height bonus, anything after the 1st acts the same (slight vertical / horizontal slow, no height gain). And yeah, this stuff is good to know, I've found.

Spamming these moves is bad, just because 2nd and on will continue to slow your fall, they'll also slow your horizontal recovering. If you're spaced just right, a 2nd one can be good for some characters to buy enough time to make them have to get up or get hit by your recovery.

The best use of a really laggy, one-time recovery like Kirby's side-B, or Mario's down-B, is right as you get hit really far off the level. For characters like Marth who gain a fair amount of height off a quick side-b, it's quite useful to save for once you're near the level.

================================

On a totally unrelated side note, I found when trying to make this video that you cannot do the same-color glitch with Kirby. Wtfrandom?
 
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Demon_machinE

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Thanks a lot phanna! I never knew what caused you to ''lose'' the height boost before. Ill bear in mind what i learned here and see if I can put it into my mental game next time I play melee.
 
RT

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An intersting video to watch, as usual. :)
 
B0mbe1c

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How about using Marth/Roy downB for a good recovery if your far and high from the stage. It works pretty good on DL for me with Marth.
 
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phanna

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I've also learned that Ice Climbers' neutral B is another one of these once-per-regenerated special recoveries.

B0mbe1c said:
How about using Marth/Roy downB for a good recovery if your far and high from the stage. It works pretty good on DL for me with Marth.
Click to expand...
What advantage does it give you?
 
Dark Sonic

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B0mbe1c said:
How about using Marth/Roy downB for a good recovery if your far and high from the stage. It works pretty good on DL for me with Marth.
Click to expand...
All it really does is slow down your fall, but it's got too much lag for you to make use of it. You accelerate back to your normall falling speed before the move is even over. It also causes you to lose all horizontal momentum, which is the most important part of Marth and Roy's recoveries. Roy's one is esspecially bad because of how fast his normal falling speed is.
 
<π

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phanna said:
I've also learned that Ice Climbers' neutral B is another one of these once-per-regenerated special recoveries.

What advantage does it give you?
Click to expand...
stops horizontal momentum I believe... but you still lose a lot of vertical which is always bad for the blade boys.

Hey phana, you should do a series on moves that stop momentum.
 
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Professor X

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Kirby can jump again after an aerial hammer, if he has jumps remaining. And if he doesn't, then the height boost seems negated by the fact that you will be at a lower height than you started when the side-B animation is finished, without any chance to interrupt and grab the ledge. Perhaps I misunderstood the criterion.
 
theONEjanitor

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holy snap
i never knew this
like i noticed sometimes my side b's didn't boost me,b ut i never knew why
GOOD STUFF
 
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