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Possible Few Tourny Legal Items?

Timat the Slayer

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First off: I realize I'm most likely going to be getting flamed here. What else is new on a forum?

I was thinking though, if Sakurai is thinking of balance, wouldn't he also keep the items on some form of level on balance as well?

Sure, we won't have **** on high, or medium, or probably low, but certain items could very easily be implemented into a tournament game.

I think, first off, the Smash Ball, *Could* be an item. Obviously, on very low. And what keeps it fair is that characters can only use their final smash once in any given match which I'm fairly sure was confirmed by Sakurai himself.

I know not all of the items have been confirmed yet but, what do you guys think? Would some items end up being legal if they aren't completely overpowered? (I.E. Bomb, Homerun bat, Starman?)

Let's discuss.
 

Exorcist

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The fact is that items inbalance fair fights for a TON of reasons.

Faster chars get to items faster.
Smash balls could spawn closer to someone.
Items just plain out give unfair advantages.
Skillless.

I like playing with items occasionally when I'm bored, but if I want a real battle.....come on.... there is no way that any item would be fair in brawl, period.
 

FlatSoda

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Also, if I may add. You're saying legal items in tournaments? There will be no way anyone will achieve that unless taken a vote. Good luck.
 

Timat the Slayer

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I'm just saying, that if sakurai is actually working to make a more balance game, then wouldn't character speed be dropped, increased, etc.? From the few clips we've seen, it looks like characters have a more regular speed, but obviously there will be differences in something like... Bowser and Fox.

But I'm saying, if characters are more balanced, wouldn't using those items to their advantage actually help make the fights more in depth? What's the point of having a final smash if nobody can use it at all?

I know a lot of items will be broken, but if it's like..the pit fall? I can see it being a ***** in ONE situation that could completely gimp someone.
 

Exorcist

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I'm just saying, that if sakurai is actually working to make a more balance game, then wouldn't character speed be dropped, increased, etc.? From the few clips we've seen, it looks like characters have a more regular speed, but obviously there will be differences in something like... Bowser and Fox.

But I'm saying, if characters are more balanced, wouldn't using those items to their advantage actually help make the fights more in depth? What's the point of having a final smash if nobody can use it at all?

I know a lot of items will be broken, but if it's like..the pit fall? I can see it being a ***** in ONE situation that could completely gimp someone.
Even if this was so, dude, think of this situation in your head:

Imagine if Yoshi was the worst character on the tier-list and he is fighting a Pit that is the best on the tier list in a tournament. Wouldn't it be a little stupid if the Yoshi player wins the match because an item, or because he got lucky with a more items than the Pit player did even if the Pit player was more skilled? It'd be completely wacky if ANY item was in tournament play.

Some character's Final Smashes are basically instant kills. If player1 had 180% and player2 had 10% around the middle of the match, and then player1 happens to get a smashball and then player2 is dead(or close to it) wouldn't that be absolutely ridiculous? Please, tell me you see what I'm saying, dude.
 

Timat the Slayer

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Even if this was so, dude, think of this situation in your head:

Imagine if Yoshi was the worst character on the tier-list and he is fighting a Pit that is the best on the tier list in a tournament. Wouldn't it be a little stupid if the Yoshi player wins the match because an item, or because he got lucky with a more items than the Pit player did even if the Pit player was more skilled? It'd be completely wacky if ANY item was in tournament play.

Some character's Final Smashes are basically instant kills. If player1 had 180% and player2 had 10% around the middle of the match, and then player1 happens to get a smashball and then player2 is dead(or close to it) wouldn't that be absolutely ridiculous? Please, tell me you see what I'm saying, dude.
I know exactly what you're saying, and believe me, I felt very close to the way you did. I think though, we're still thinking in the mindset of melee. I mean, 170%? Correct me if I'm wrong, but most skilled players can pull off most of that damage in a single combo streak, right?

And also, the final smashs are still only ONE time use. You could get lucky with a 10% -> 100% use, yeah. But what if it's like 100% to death? Big deal. And we don't know how powerful the final smashs really are anyway. Yeah, Giga Bowser transformation looks like the **** and all, but..seriously? if it lasts for say, i dunno, 8 seconds. ...are you seriously going to say that will make or break the match? Hell, if you can avoid or dodge at least some of the damage of a final smash, it wouldn't be nearly as broken as people would think.

We don't know exactly how it works though, so I'm saying it's still a possibility it may end up being workable into the tournament scene.
 

adumbrodeus

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No items.

Because spawns are inherently random and provide way too much of an advantage to even out over time. Same with non-vanilla stages.
 

GimR

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If they made it so you could turn off capsules barrels and crates so items just dropped from the sky, I think they could possibly be tourney legal.
 

Kirby knight

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I would consider myself a somewhat casual player of melee; and whenever my cousins/friends would come over we'd have alot of fun playing with items.

However when we decided to have, of what we call " A real match" we would turn off all of the items so the entire match would be based upon skill with your character. (1vs1 play) Rather than fighting till an item appeared then making a mad dash to it.

I'm not to fond of having items being allowed in tournies, because of the whole randomness element to it. It actually detracts skill from matches because one can win with a lucky item spawning right by them.

I'd hate to have matches decided by luck like that..
 

Timat the Slayer

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I, myself, am a tournament player. I know that items add rather large amount of randomness to the battle but...out of the items we've seen on brawl so far, do you honestly think, that most of those would completely break a game?

I don't.

A banana peel? Seriously? The cracker launcher will obviously be something that could crush someone, so would be banned, and the bumber would shaft out a lot of people's recoveries, I know that, and I know it would never go for tournaments, but some of the balanced items could actually prove to be well rounded for matches.

And believe me, I'm all for an all skill match, (though, my main being sheik isn't exactly a good point to say that from...) but if EVERYONE has a UNIQUE final smash, and everyone gets the same effect from a strategically placed, i dunno, banana, why wouldn't it be something that might get introduced?

We're still thinking of the items from melee people, there is no proof that the new items will be as powerful, or game breaking, as they were.
 

Kirby knight

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I, myself, am a tournament player. I know that items add rather large amount of randomness to the battle but...out of the items we've seen on brawl so far, do you honestly think, that most of those would completely break a game?

No, but the fact of the matter is that the item itself is not the problem. The containers that hold the items explode, however that in itself is a bit risk and reward though. Will you go break open the container even though it may explode? Or once you grab a capsule will you throw it at your foe hoping it blows up?

If something was done about those I may change my mind slightly.

I don't.

A banana peel? Seriously? The cracker launcher will obviously be something that could crush someone, so would be banned, and the bumber would shaft out a lot of people's recoveries, I know that, and I know it would never go for tournaments, but some of the balanced items could actually prove to be well rounded for matches.

What if the banana peel somehow could make you slip off the stage and lose all your recovery moves? I mean some items brokeness are more apparant than others.

And believe me, I'm all for an all skill match, (though, my main being sheik isn't exactly a good point to say that from...) but if EVERYONE has a UNIQUE final smash, and everyone gets the same effect from a strategically placed, i dunno, banana, why wouldn't it be something that might get introduced?

We're still thinking of the items from melee people, there is no proof that the new items will be as powerful, or game breaking, as they were.
I'm all for testing don't get me wrong, but who's to say that items won't be as broken or more in Brawl? I mean a topic like this shouldn't even exist right now. Only time will tell I guess.
 

Sir James

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Items don't belong in tournies. Items are good for a game of fun, but a tournament is a test of skill. Items simply dont involve skill. Having items in tournaments makes no sense at all. We hold tournaments to see who is the best player, not the luckiest one.
 

Timat the Slayer

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I'm all for testing don't get me wrong, but who's to say that items won't be as broken or more in Brawl? I mean a topic like this shouldn't even exist right now. Only time will tell I guess.
Fair enough. I was hoping that people could actually throw in some ideas on what items could or couldn't be tournament legal due to them not adding anything that would just out right tip the scales, or be utterly useless. But, I guess items will pretty much always be considered 'too random' or 'too overpowered' for tournament usage. :(
 

adumbrodeus

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I, myself, am a tournament player. I know that items add rather large amount of randomness to the battle but...out of the items we've seen on brawl so far, do you honestly think, that most of those would completely break a game?

I don't.

A banana peel? Seriously? The cracker launcher will obviously be something that could crush someone, so would be banned, and the bumber would shaft out a lot of people's recoveries, I know that, and I know it would never go for tournaments, but some of the balanced items could actually prove to be well rounded for matches.

And believe me, I'm all for an all skill match, (though, my main being sheik isn't exactly a good point to say that from...) but if EVERYONE has a UNIQUE final smash, and everyone gets the same effect from a strategically placed, i dunno, banana, why wouldn't it be something that might get introduced?

We're still thinking of the items from melee people, there is no proof that the new items will be as powerful, or game breaking, as they were.
Well, you bring up one interesting point, namely that everyone who steps on it gets the same effect, so essentially it's more about somebody forcing their opponent there after it's laid then it spawning next to you. Similarly, the motion sensor bombs would be cool if they weren't overpowered and didn't deal damage upon being thrown.

A similar train of thought follows for the smash balls, since you only get to use final smash once per match, so even if you get a lucky spawn, both players are eventually gonna get it. That's probably the reason why it's only usable once, because the game-makers know the tournament scene and want it legal.


Anything else however, spawning nearbye confers an inherent advantage, even if the item isn't very overpowered, trust me, minor advantages add up.

So, with due exceptions, no items.
 

SCOTU

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The reason Item's aren't on in Melee are because the barells, crates, and capsules have a random factor to them. They can be explosive, or not explosive. And it's impossible to tell the difference. The only way they can be turned off is by turning Items off all together. If items are left off in brawl, it's because the creators didn't allow the deactivation of said explosives, or because of a precedent set by melee (that most competitive players are used to them being off). Who knows how the scene will evolve this time? The Items off option yeilds an easy way to make things less random, but there are still random factors in the game most notably peach's turnips (but these are distinguishable), and G&W's Hammer (which is also distinguishable). No one knows for sure what the "standard" tournament ruleset will be in brawl, it's an evolutionary process. It's not even standard still in melee (FCD had battlefield not on neutral random select, and had MK2 on Counterpick stages - 2 differences from other rule sets, while MLG had rainbow cruise on random select - where it's often only counterpickable).

Edit: if it isn't obvious, i play competitively.
 

adumbrodeus

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The reason Item's aren't on in Melee are because the barells, crates, and capsules have a random factor to them. They can be explosive, or not explosive. And it's impossible to tell the difference. The only way they can be turned off is by turning Items off all together. If items are left off in brawl, it's because the creators didn't allow the deactivation of said explosives, or because of a precedent set by melee (that most competitive players are used to them being off). Who knows how the scene will evolve this time? The Items off option yeilds an easy way to make things less random, but there are still random factors in the game most notably peach's turnips (but these are distinguishable), and G&W's Hammer (which is also distinguishable). No one knows for sure what the "standard" tournament ruleset will be in brawl, it's an evolutionary process. It's not even standard still in melee (FCD had battlefield not on neutral random select, and had MK2 on Counterpick stages - 2 differences from other rule sets, while MLG had rainbow cruise on random select - where it's often only counterpickable).

Edit: if it isn't obvious, i play competitively.
Of course the barrels, capsules, and boxes have to go to do this, I think we all figured that from the start (I hope somebody from the dev team recognizes that).

I also suggested that instead of items that provide a good effect to a player whenever it's picked up, one-time items, and (predictable) changes to the enviroment be allowed, because they effect everyone evenly, and the point would be utilizing it strategically, not being the one to make the change.

Thus, it may or may not happen, but the real hurdle I see to some items being legal is the containers.
 

SpiritAshura

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If they pick a set spot for certain items to spawn instead of randomly all over the place then maybe I could see it happening, but I dunno I doubt it still.
 

SCOTU

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they do have set spots where the items spawn. It's why originally, items were legal in tournaments. They were used in qualifying rounds at MLG in the earlier days, using set spawn points as legitimization for non randomness.
 

Ess oh Aytch

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All items are ridiculously random. They defeat the purpose of playing competitively. They were once allowed in tournaments, and now are not. If Pokéballs were on, one person could get extremely good Pokémon, like Entei or something, while the other would get Goldeen or Chansey or Cyndaquil. I would NOT put your hopes up for any items appearing in competitive play in Brawl.
 

Nybb

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Exorcist said:
Even if this was so, dude, think of this situation in your head:

Imagine if Yoshi was the worst character on the tier-list and he is fighting a Pit that is the best on the tier list in a tournament. Wouldn't it be a little stupid if the Yoshi player wins the match because an item, or because he got lucky with a more items than the Pit player did even if the Pit player was more skilled? It'd be completely wacky if ANY item was in tournament play.

Some character's Final Smashes are basically instant kills. If player1 had 180% and player2 had 10% around the middle of the match, and then player1 happens to get a smashball and then player2 is dead(or close to it) wouldn't that be absolutely ridiculous? Please, tell me you see what I'm saying, dude.
Imagine if Yoshi was the worst character on the tier-list and he is fighting a Pit that is the best on the tier list in a tournament. Wouldn't it be a little stupid if the Yoshi player wins the match because Pit makes a mistake, or because he got lucky and teched left when the Pit player attacked right, even if the Pit player was more skilled? It'd be completely wacky if ANY mistake was in tournament play.

Some character's Final Smashes are basically instant kills. If player1 had 180% and player2 had 10% around the middle of the match, and then player2 happens to miss an L-cancel due to something random like sweaty hands and then player2 is dead(or close to it) wouldn't that be absolutely ridiculous? Please, tell me you see what I'm saying, dude.



All I'm saying is, don't argue that they're too random when randomness is a core part of the game that cannot be completely eliminated. Items should be given a chance, if we're able to turn off exploding containers. Obviously some (likely many) will be overpowered, so some discretion would be neccessary.
 

Ess oh Aytch

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Imagine if Yoshi was the worst character on the tier-list and he is fighting a Pit that is the best on the tier list in a tournament. Wouldn't it be a little stupid if the Yoshi player wins the match because Pit makes a mistake, or because he got lucky and teched left when the Pit player attacked right, even if the Pit player was more skilled? It'd be completely wacky if ANY mistake was in tournament play.

Some character's Final Smashes are basically instant kills. If player1 had 180% and player2 had 10% around the middle of the match, and then player2 happens to miss an L-cancel due to something random like sweaty hands and then player2 is dead(or close to it) wouldn't that be absolutely ridiculous? Please, tell me you see what I'm saying, dude.



All I'm saying is, don't argue that they're too random when randomness is a core part of the game that cannot be completely eliminated. Items should be given a chance, if we're able to turn off exploding containers. Obviously some (likely many) will be overpowered, so some discretion would be neccessary.
The levels of randomness you are using to argue for items are not on the same level. Any item can be random, and can change the outcome of the match drastically. Under the pressure of a match, someone is not going to take to their advantage the set spawn points of items. They won't remember the points. It's impossible to figure it out while thinking about what attack to use next or how to defend yourself. Final Smashes will most likely not be included in competitive play, either, as spawn points give advantages to one player and disadvantages to the other.

You're correct; randomness cannot be completely eliminated from this game. But using sweaty hands as an example is way too out there. Sweaty hands CANNOT be eliminated from "randomness," but items can. Why wouldn't you eliminate something you can? Just because randomness applies to every game doesn't mean you shouldn't take out as much randomness as possible.
 

Master Peach

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I don't know about the other items (I'll have to test em out and see.), but I'd like to have Final Smashes for the tourney scene. For skilled players like us, there are many ways for us to dodge these moves. Plus you can only use it once. Get your opponent to waste their move, and bam you gain the advantage. There might even be lag in the move for you too make a counter stirke and vice versa. There are many ways of showing skill when fighting in a tourney and having Final Smashes. Final Smashes should be considered after enough testing has been done to see if it's not too over powered, and I'm sure it kills at a certain damage' not 10% not even at 40%. Probably above 50% or more. Just a thought.
 

Dylan_Tnga

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I think in this day and age, competitive smashers are too used to playing without items and they dont WANT any turned on.

Competitive play is fine the way it is, I wouldnt want to watch Mew2king vs PC chris with items on, even in the hypothetical situation that they hacked melee and could magically turn off explosive crates and capsules.

Honnestly now, who here who is a competitive melee smasher thinks that in the hypothetical situation that there were no crates/capsules that items would come back to tournaments

Anyone? Yeah thought so.

Items **** up everything and make the fight unfair. People do not want ANY form of randomness going on in melee if prize money is on the line.

If you like items.. why not simply just play with them in friendlies? Even at a tournament im sure you could find someone willing to do an items match with you

heck Id do an items on money match with someone just for kicks XD

but I think the current tourney rules are what we should stick with... look how well they have worked for us over the years.

Man, tournament related things is serious business..
You can post stale e-trends! Good for you!
 

Johnknight1

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Items could be, so long as the random crates, barrel, etc. explosions are gone, or a option in Brawl. I mean c'mon, you ask a average SWF regular smasher to play only low tier characters, they'll do it. You ask them to play bottom tier characters only, you'll do it. You ask them to play items on low, with only throwable items, and they spazz out. Seriously, WTF? They might increase randomness, but they involve particular skills. For instance, the bumper was great for throwing at specific timings, and for hitting your opponent against, as well ast the prozy mine. I just think we overlook how valueable they could be in combat.

Anyways, the beam sword, home-run bat, fan, bumper [especially], proxy mine [this is all skill], ray gun [Melee], zapper gun [SSB64], green shell, pitfall, banana peel, franklin badge, super scope, gooey bomb, and a few others could be tourny legal. Look at it this way.

The beam sword, home-run bat, and fan are all about close range right=??? WRONG! Throw them at people, and do crazy stuff with them. Hit them after you blasted them, and right when they miraculously recover, BAAAAMM!!!!! DENIED! XD

The ray gun and zapper could and should be used to SHFL [it'd be awsome to SHFL with it=IDK if you can in Melee or not! XD], and give all non-range attack characters a super powered one. In fact, range characters would use them. Plus again, tossing them rocks! Also the super scope with confirmed moving could do similar, and if you can charge while moving, it can be the ultimate edge guarder, or just random "BOOM, mindgames!" attack on your opponents. Definitely worth a shot to try in tournies. :)

The gooey bomb requires you keep a space away from opponents. Therefore, only a fool would charge in stupidly. This requires careful wavedashing, dash dancing, grabbing, and spriting timing, and requires the person attached with it to attack against their will, or die. The defender has to be on their guard, or they're as dead a doorknob.

For the bumper, well I explained it earlier, and now that it can float mid air, you could use it for mad edgeguarding skills. The item to love/hate, clearly.

FOr the proxy mine, pitfall, and banana peel, it comes down to this. It's like the bumper; you want to hit your opponents into them. The proxy mine explodes on contact, and hitting your opponent into it, or hitting the proxy mine with spam [ie: Mario's fireballs] as they shorthop over it/are around it could be useful strategies. It basically forces part of the field useless, and you avoid it. It makes tigher battles, and requires percise aiming. I see the pitfall a similar way, except it won't be a KO move, but more of a combo them while they're imobolized move. You beat the crap out of them percentage wise, and then one whip of a good impact move, and they're on a one way trip to the moon! :laugh:

For the banana peel, same thing, but to less extremes. It could be a semi-damage racker [like the pitfall], but it would be more of just a small damage racker at that. Okay, maybe the banana peel won't exactly be the best choice, but you neve know wat secrets we'll discover! :)

For the franklin badge, it makes spam worthless. Characters like Link, YLink, etc. that are spam-based would have to either sorta run, or come at you. Perfect for spam stoppoing, and giving you a edge in battle.

For the green shell, it's good for throwing, and has amazing stun. Perfect for hitting a opponent right as they are about to recover, and then BAAAAMMM! SMash attack. Definitely could be used strategic-wise. In fact, I do similar things in the somewat rare occasions I use items.

A few others could be useful definitely, but so long as the explosive crates and barrels are off/a option, the items aren't TOO OVERPOWERED [but thye should be somewat strong], recovery items aren't used [cheap and extend the match unneccissaraly], and the items used in tournies are balance, fair, and don't have stupid randomness like the exploding crates, then why not test it=??? Items could very well be a pillar in Brawl if the developers implement this, and the players take advantage of it.

That way the classic so called "party style gameplay", and becomes a edge of your seat beat down, with items going in each direction, techs like crazy for attacks/defense/spacing/etc, and makes the game a diffrent, faster, and more unique pace. It could change the gamepla similar to the wavedashing and wavedashing techs did. The one thing I worry about would be the obssesive camping from long range attacks, taking away projectiles from projectile-based characters [=camping]. However, that is something that the gooey bomb could more than fix!

Also, if there is a option to individually makes items appear more than others [with others still on], that'd rock, and help as well. The gooey bomb would have to become a center, cancelling any hopes of camping, and maybe a spam item or two. And you gotta love it, if it all somehow worked! :) Here's to hoping that there is a chance items strategic value doesn't blow like in Melee, and tops the amazingness of items in SSB64, and continues to take it to levels beyond wat the super scope/moving and shooting, and the improved bumper showed us! :)

Overall they could be neat for a tourney here or there, but won't be a main thing in tournies if they are implemented. They could be very neat to see used by the best, and could add certain spam skills to the game. A skill I accel at! XD
 

SCOTU

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Items **** up everything and make the fight unfair. People do not want ANY form of randomness going on in melee if prize money is on the line.
Quoted for extreme frikin truth. Not only is there prize money on the line at a tournament, but you paid money to enter that tournament. Now, you don't want someone who's clearly worse than you to happen to be at the right place and right time to win. Even if you know how to catch items in the air, or how to throw them in all 11 different ways to achieve different trajectories. You also cannot really camp an item spawn point, since there are multiples, and by camping one, you've basically given the rest to your opponent. If someone did figure out how to camp *all* of the item points on a stage, it would probably be banned. It makes sense to ban a stage when a definitive winning strategy exists, and it only requires someone to know it, and to have enough skill to do it - and win. off the topic of stages (cause this isn't about that) i personally feel that items will be disabled in competitive play because many melee tournament directors will be the starting tournament directors for the brawl scene, and they will be accustom to no-items play. The rules of competitive play are ultimately decided by the tournament director, and are adopted on a widespread scale if people feel the rules are the pinnacle of fairness (which has an evolving metagame).
 

adumbrodeus

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All items are ridiculously random. They defeat the purpose of playing competitively. They were once allowed in tournaments, and now are not. If Pokéballs were on, one person could get extremely good Pokémon, like Entei or something, while the other would get Goldeen or Chansey or Cyndaquil. I would NOT put your hopes up for any items appearing in competitive play in Brawl.
Not really, with smash balls you're ultimately giving both players the opportunity to use final smash once since it can only be used once and it's nigh impossible that it will not appear near both players at some point.

With the Banana peel, everyone can see where it goes and (presumably) it effects everyone evenly, so it becomes part of the stage environment, the point being to avoid it for both players.

Those are the type of items that would be allowed, no items that give advantages to the player that picks it up except one-time use items.
 

Adventurous

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Items require skill to use effectively as well... but I always get messed up by items anyway.

A: I go to do a smash attack, and as I'm performing it, a Mr. Saturn, Bomb, or Exploding Container drops into my attack... This happens to me a lot, and counts for 90% of my losses in All-Star Mode.

B: 80% of the containers I hit explode... This is no exaggeration. = (

C: I play with Roy and go for a Forward Smash only to find that I picked up a Ray Gun before performing my move... Ray Gun's an okay weapon, but I find I often need my Forward Smash more and have to use time to get rid of the Ray Gun somehow.

D: 90% of the containers I hit explode... (this may be slightly exaggerated)

E: Pokeballs betray me...

F: Opponent picks up Homerun Bat and does random smash attacks. Sure, most of them won't hit, but at least one of them is destined to catch me offguard.

G: Every container I hit explodes! I'm not kidding!

I have no problem using items or countering them, but it seems every chance they get, an item will mess me up. It's still fun to KO someone who's wielding a hammer though.
 

Dylan_Tnga

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
4,644
Location
Montreal Canada
Items require skill to use effectively as well... but I always get messed up by items anyway.

A: I go to do a smash attack, and as I'm performing it, a Mr. Saturn, Bomb, or Exploding Container drops into my attack... This happens to me a lot, and counts for 90% of my losses in All-Star Mode.

B: 80% of the containers I hit explode... This is no exaggeration. = (

C: I play with Roy and go for a Forward Smash only to find that I picked up a Ray Gun before performing my move... Ray Gun's an okay weapon, but I find I often need my Forward Smash more and have to use time to get rid of the Ray Gun somehow.

D: 90% of the containers I hit explode... (this may be slightly exaggerated)

E: Pokeballs betray me...

F: Opponent picks up Homerun Bat and does random smash attacks. Sure, most of them won't hit, but at least one of them is destined to catch me offguard.

G: Every container I hit explodes! I'm not kidding!

I have no problem using items or countering them, but it seems every chance they get, an item will mess me up. It's still fun to KO someone who's wielding a hammer though.
Yes, there is a certain degree of skill when it comes to items.

Thing is, you can learn how to abuse the items in 2 weeks you can master the use of every item, no problem.

Mastering your character? You'll never do it. It takes a lifetime to do, and you ALWAYS can get better.

And oh man do I know what you're saying when it comes to items... I only had one problem with them.. above all..

Chancey. My sworn enemy. Every egg she's ever given me in super smash brothers has been a bomb, at least 98 times out of a hundred. I falcon punch her and knock her out on safron city whenever I get the chance in super smash bros 64.

Not really, with smash balls you're ultimately giving both players the opportunity to use final smash once since it can only be used once and it's nigh impossible that it will not appear near both players at some point.

With the Banana peel, everyone can see where it goes and (presumably) it effects everyone evenly, so it becomes part of the stage environment, the point being to avoid it for both players.

Those are the type of items that would be allowed, no items that give advantages to the player that picks it up except one-time use items.
VERY good point about the bananna. However I think Final Smashes are still as sakurai said ''Personalized hammers''

I think we're better off keeping no items standard since thats what most competitive smashers want, but also encouraging item and FS enthusiasts to create their own set of tournament rules.

Seriously, if its your tournament, you make the rules. Whether people come or not is entirely up to how your set of rules reflects on them.

The main problem with final smashes is they allow you to control your opponent, without requiring techchasing or mindgames. That's lame.
 

Dylan_Tnga

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
4,644
Location
Montreal Canada
This argument is silly!
No, it isn't. Mookierah is right, competitive smashers are so caught up in their own world that they dismiss the ideas and desires of other people, who love smash just as much as ANY competitive smasher, as being silly or not worth their time.

I do disagree with items being legal in tournaments, but I don't see why pro item tournaments cant happen if there are enough people who want to do them.

I would even attend an item tourney, but, as I stated earlier, I would NEVER put money on the line on an item tournament. Its like playing the lottery.

If we keep acting so arrogant towards people, it will only incite further flamewars. I know this better than anyone, having being judged to be some sort of evil anti item competitive smash nazi who wishes to force his views on everyone. Which I was when I first signed up so there was obviously a reason.

So instead of posting useless stuff like that Adi, show the posters the respect they deserve, or don't post at all.
 

Jackal478

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
784
Location
Mechanicsville, VA
I like to use items, but tourney legal? Pfft, That will never happen

Most of the items me and my friends just throw at each other.

Me: "OMG LOOK A BEAM SWORD"

-picks up beam sword-

Friend: "Cool"

Me: "Guess what"

Friend: "What"

-throws sword and it hits him in the head.

Me: "OWNED"
 
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