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Ness Video Thread: under new management

Eagleye893

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Wow, Ness's PSI Magnet really that useful? I usually use it to slow myself down from fastfalling. Ness's PSI, unexpectedly, has lots of good stuff @_@

I thought Lucas's PSI magnet does things better.
Ness' PSI Magnet has several quirks to it... but I say for what its worth, lucas has more beneficial things than ness does... Like what you can do with ness' PSI Magnet you can basically also do with lucas' magnet, but the wind just puts a little OOMPH behind the wavebounce stuff... (lucas gets the distance and the hit, but we get the insanity).
 

P.I.E.

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A WiFi match I had with my friend MX. Please watch and tell me what I can improve on and/or just comment.

Me (Ness) vs MX (Fox)
a pretty good battle

But i'd have to say that i kinda noticed you were throwin random hits in there. I'm not sure if it was because you were panicking alot (hapenns to me sometimes) but try to do it less. make sure you can land the hit rather than just putting it out there, hoping he'll run into it.

oh an a good strategy might be to make sure that fox gets decaf next time he goes to starbucks xD That thing loves the air, and ness plays a good game in the air, try approaching from the air more often, because it seems like he's using your "earthbound" fighting to his advantage by coming in from above.

other than that you were good and i like your use of F-air (my favorite aerial)
 

Shaky

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Eagleye893

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great job in your games overall! really some of the things that you did were insane!

now to move from your general awesome-ness to the lesser of the magnet.... I like that you used it and did some stuff effectively, but you sometimes used the skills in times where they weren't needed... i liked the momentum halting on that one match, but otherwise i didn't see too much impressive... maybe if you had what seemed to be a telegraphing method for when you use the magnet, but it was more reactionary for both parts... it needs to have a system behind it... but i need a good, consistent doubles partner for putting it into practice as well as possible...
 

Shaky

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Yeah... I think there is a system for putting momentum halting to the best use. Not that easy to figure out though .-.
 

Eagleye893

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triple post?!?!?!?

obviously internet failure....

also, @ averice.... that was great.... i wasn't expecting the pkfire there.... it worked though....
I won't ask, but I'll say.... that was the dumbest thing i've seen..... "he's charging! he can't hit me! owait...."
you did really well... I'd've said to switch up at a couple points, but it seems ally is scared of the fair.... fair isn't even that good.... does snake not do well against it? IDK.... you won, but you shouldn't have.... he killed himself with that low recovery second stock... but you killed yourself too.. I'd even say so first stock.... at least drop and pkfire while rising backwards.... you have to do something to counter the jab.... maybe try fairing from further away... there were better possibilities...
 

AvariceX

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Yeah I would by no means say I couldn't have done things better lol. Ally is definitely scared of the fair; a direct quote from him during one of our matches: "You should use more fair, it's your best move against snake... *gets hit by nair OoS*... and that too".

Anyway, here's the rest of my matches with him from that day (don't expect these ones to be wins lol):
Tournament:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTCdwoarv1g :snake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSG2JZHnA6U :snake:

Friendlies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8JpCqTfB0w :snake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRVsJyZwHb0 :falcon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy29lEbUtUs :falcon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FsREy9eMBQ :falcon:
 

Shaky

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Well that stupid 502 error made me post 3 times :/ If someone can delete some of the posts I would appreciate it.
 

oOTjayOo

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AvariceX

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I'm going to be playing at a Tourney with Ally in a week or so, gonna study up on those videos Avarice!
Don't jump into fsmash. >_>


Also, don't play Ally like you would play anyone else... or rather don't play anyone else like you would play Ally. Ally heavily relies on the counter-intuitive and if you try to play against other players the way you would play against him you'll end up getting constantly stuffed by really basic setups and spacing. As entertaining as it is to watch videos of Ally and to play against him, those matches are not good to learn from at all; even other players who make heavy use of the counter-intuitive will do it in vastly different ways so you won't really be able to carry over the experience.

Since it's your first tourney though I wouldn't even worry about this. Be prepared to be 3-stocked by everyone - if you don't, great; if you do, learn what you can from it.
 

oOTjayOo

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TJ how do you place at tournies?

you're really good
I've only went to wifi tournaments. I still get beaten by marths at them but not really bad. Im trying to second MK to fight this. Pretty soon when I'm 1 or 2 years older ill drive to them because my mom would know im good enough to make money doing this i guess.
 

Eagleye893

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Imma say this: you are good in some ways, but you have room for improvement... for example: I often see you rushing towards your opponent with unwieldy approaching attacks, like fair and other things. You really should NEVER plan on approaching with fair unless you know for sure that you will get the opponent and they won't take advantage of your mishaps by DI'ing outwards. Fair, IMO, is a severely over-rated move. The only thing it serves a purpose for is a scare tactic... and spacing... it isn't good enough of an attack to do much of anything against one who is wiser. I saw you using fair as a retreated aerial, but many times you first ran forward and hopped back in order to do so. The running forward wastes time, provides a small amount of vulnerability that can easily be picked up on, and (against the higher tier characters or against characters with more speed/priority/range) can just end up getting you dominated.
^ this paragraph about Fair is only my opinion, but in my usage of Fair, I haven't gotten much out of it... when i used to spam it as such, it just got me killed, and because of that I would like to warn you of that. Fair is a good move when used in moderation. Mindless spamming will put you into a bad situation eventually. (I could tell your intention by retreating the fairs that you used, but nair, bair, uair, DTILT, FTILT, and several other attacks will rack up damage in a much better way than fair will [against the better of players], IMO of course. None of this is 100%, because I haven't really played brawl in about a month.... XD)

All of ness' attacks are great to use in almost any type of situation. I took one match of yours and approximated the usage of every move:

Moves are given a percentage usage, ranging between values because I don't know the exact number.

Aerials: 50-70%
--(percentage Aerial subcategory)
--Fair: 60-80%
--Bair: 20-35%
--Nair: 15-25%
--Dair: 5-15%
--Uair: 5-10%
Ground: 5-10%
--Usmash: 10-50%
--Fsmash: 30-65%
--Jab: 20-35%
--Other: 5-10% (I'm not too sure... it may actually be 0%, since you used so few grounded attacks other than pkfire)
Grabs (yes, separate from ground): 10-30%
--SIDENOTE: many of the grab attempts were thrown out without connecting. Of the ones that landed...
--Fthrow: 25-60%
--Bthrow: 10-25% (used as it should be, mostly for killing)
--Uthrow: 15-25%
--Dthrow: ??? (don't remember seeing it in the match that I looked at... I watched a lot of them, but I used one to approximate the usage of moves)
Specials: 15-25%
--Pkfire: 50-70% (saw lots of spamming)
--PkT: (away from recovery:) 10-20%
--PkFlash: 0%
--PSI Mag: 5-10% ( :()

Now looking at that, I see some things wrong.... As stated before, Fair is in significant usage, as well as PKFire... I also noted that there were few, if any, attempts at throwing in ftilt, dtilt, utilt, which are all moves that can be used well in many cases (dtilt, if spaced properly, trips nearly 100% of the time; ftilt can push ppl back if thrown out at proper times; utilt is quick, juggles, kills quicker than usmash, and somewhat easy to land if you're used to it). What I also wanted to see was MOAR PSI MAGNET!!! (As I tell absolutely everyone by now...) Magnet is much more useful than anyone knows... especially in B+... Magnet was crap in 64 and melee, but Brawl it can at least serve some purpose other than absorption. Also, WHERE IS THE PKFLASH?!?!?!? Okay, sure, I was watching a lucas match and it wouldn't make much sense to give your opponent free damage recovery, but you can throw it in there once in a while if placed smartly. Did you know that PKFlash uncharged could potentially lead into nair or uair if started when ness is a slight distance above the ground? I use it on my friends all the time, and they find it extremely difficult to avoid the oncoming aerial...

Now overall, the spread between all the types of attacks should be about even, with grabs slightly less... lets say about 37/23/15/25 just for the sake of putting numbers into this. I'll explain what I mean by this.
Since ness is supposed to be really good in the air, it only makes sense to use his aerial moves the most. but by doing that ALL the time, you become easy to read, counter, and defend against, because all of his aerials can be destroyed if the opponent knows what to do. Ground attacks, IMO, are severely under-rated for ness. His tilts all provide some significant boost to his game, while his smashes are good enough to punish. Jabs, IMO, are terrible. Anyone, with good timing, can either shield the third hit in ness' jab combo or out-speed him when ness tries to jab into something else. Because of this, I use dtilt lots more. it's quick, provides several setups into things, can trip, and allows for you to react if needed. Moving on to grabs, I highly recommend only using the grabs if you know you will grab. Many people I see often dashgrab and overshoot the opponent, leaving them in a world of hurt. only grab when the opportunity is right and you are within the proper range/spacing for grabbing. Now with throws, Bthrow is what you used well: keep using it only near the killing % range. Bthrow = Killer... people fear it. Fthrow and Uthrow do more damage than Dthrow, but Dthrow can lead into some pseudo combos on people. I recommend using fthrow the most, uthrow slightly less, and dthrow the least, mostly only if you use pkfire > grab.... (looks cool!). With special techniques, PKFire is somewhat good, but many people know how to properly SDI out in offline games. I like PKfire, but I tend to avoid grounded. I instead use PKFire when I FH, which (if done properly) allows me to do an aerial, airdodge, jump back, do lots of things... grounded is much more difficult to hit with, because all your opponent needs to do is jump and approach and you are on the defensive. The FH version keeps you a little less approachable, but only if you space it right. PSI Magnet is good as I said before, Pkflash is good for mindgames and uber rare combos... PKT is good overall. PKT mindgames are fun to do. Because it is easy to control, you can do lots to mind**** everyone, and even PKT2 in some cases to either retreat, attack based on an opening produced by pkt mindgames, or just random stuff....

Sorry if I seemed to rant, but I like to give constructive criticism... if you have questions, ask.... I'm happy to help anyone who wants my help... XD (I'm no pro like vice, shaky, or smash64, but I know quite a bit)
 

oOTjayOo

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Imma say this: you are good in some ways, but you have room for improvement... for example: I often see you rushing towards your opponent with unwieldy approaching attacks, like fair and other things. You really should NEVER plan on approaching with fair unless you know for sure that you will get the opponent and they won't take advantage of your mishaps by DI'ing outwards. Fair, IMO, is a severely over-rated move. The only thing it serves a purpose for is a scare tactic... and spacing... it isn't good enough of an attack to do much of anything against one who is wiser. I saw you using fair as a retreated aerial, but many times you first ran forward and hopped back in order to do so. The running forward wastes time, provides a small amount of vulnerability that can easily be picked up on, and (against the higher tier characters or against characters with more speed/priority/range) can just end up getting you dominated.
^ this paragraph about Fair is only my opinion, but in my usage of Fair, I haven't gotten much out of it... when i used to spam it as such, it just got me killed, and because of that I would like to warn you of that. Fair is a good move when used in moderation. Mindless spamming will put you into a bad situation eventually. (I could tell your intention by retreating the fairs that you used, but nair, bair, uair, DTILT, FTILT, and several other attacks will rack up damage in a much better way than fair will [against the better of players], IMO of course. None of this is 100%, because I haven't really played brawl in about a month.... XD)

All of ness' attacks are great to use in almost any type of situation. I took one match of yours and approximated the usage of every move:

Moves are given a percentage usage, ranging between values because I don't know the exact number.

Aerials: 50-70%
--(percentage Aerial subcategory)
--Fair: 60-80%
--Bair: 20-35%
--Nair: 15-25%
--Dair: 5-15%
--Uair: 5-10%
Ground: 5-10%
--Usmash: 10-50%
--Fsmash: 30-65%
--Jab: 20-35%
--Other: 5-10% (I'm not too sure... it may actually be 0%, since you used so few grounded attacks other than pkfire)
Grabs (yes, separate from ground): 10-30%
--SIDENOTE: many of the grab attempts were thrown out without connecting. Of the ones that landed...
--Fthrow: 25-60%
--Bthrow: 10-25% (used as it should be, mostly for killing)
--Uthrow: 15-25%
--Dthrow: ??? (don't remember seeing it in the match that I looked at... I watched a lot of them, but I used one to approximate the usage of moves)
Specials: 15-25%
--Pkfire: 50-70% (saw lots of spamming)
--PkT: (away from recovery:) 10-20%
--PkFlash: 0%
--PSI Mag: 5-10% ( :()

Now looking at that, I see some things wrong.... As stated before, Fair is in significant usage, as well as PKFire... I also noted that there were few, if any, attempts at throwing in ftilt, dtilt, utilt, which are all moves that can be used well in many cases (dtilt, if spaced properly, trips nearly 100% of the time; ftilt can push ppl back if thrown out at proper times; utilt is quick, juggles, kills quicker than usmash, and somewhat easy to land if you're used to it). What I also wanted to see was MOAR PSI MAGNET!!! (As I tell absolutely everyone by now...) Magnet is much more useful than anyone knows... especially in B+... Magnet was crap in 64 and melee, but Brawl it can at least serve some purpose other than absorption. Also, WHERE IS THE PKFLASH?!?!?!? Okay, sure, I was watching a lucas match and it wouldn't make much sense to give your opponent free damage recovery, but you can throw it in there once in a while if placed smartly. Did you know that PKFlash uncharged could potentially lead into nair or uair if started when ness is a slight distance above the ground? I use it on my friends all the time, and they find it extremely difficult to avoid the oncoming aerial...

Now overall, the spread between all the types of attacks should be about even, with grabs slightly less... lets say about 37/23/15/25 just for the sake of putting numbers into this. I'll explain what I mean by this.
Since ness is supposed to be really good in the air, it only makes sense to use his aerial moves the most. but by doing that ALL the time, you become easy to read, counter, and defend against, because all of his aerials can be destroyed if the opponent knows what to do. Ground attacks, IMO, are severely under-rated for ness. His tilts all provide some significant boost to his game, while his smashes are good enough to punish. Jabs, IMO, are terrible. Anyone, with good timing, can either shield the third hit in ness' jab combo or out-speed him when ness tries to jab into something else. Because of this, I use dtilt lots more. it's quick, provides several setups into things, can trip, and allows for you to react if needed. Moving on to grabs, I highly recommend only using the grabs if you know you will grab. Many people I see often dashgrab and overshoot the opponent, leaving them in a world of hurt. only grab when the opportunity is right and you are within the proper range/spacing for grabbing. Now with throws, Bthrow is what you used well: keep using it only near the killing % range. Bthrow = Killer... people fear it. Fthrow and Uthrow do more damage than Dthrow, but Dthrow can lead into some pseudo combos on people. I recommend using fthrow the most, uthrow slightly less, and dthrow the least, mostly only if you use pkfire > grab.... (looks cool!). With special techniques, PKFire is somewhat good, but many people know how to properly SDI out in offline games. I like PKfire, but I tend to avoid grounded. I instead use PKFire when I FH, which (if done properly) allows me to do an aerial, airdodge, jump back, do lots of things... grounded is much more difficult to hit with, because all your opponent needs to do is jump and approach and you are on the defensive. The FH version keeps you a little less approachable, but only if you space it right. PSI Magnet is good as I said before, Pkflash is good for mindgames and uber rare combos... PKT is good overall. PKT mindgames are fun to do. Because it is easy to control, you can do lots to mind**** everyone, and even PKT2 in some cases to either retreat, attack based on an opening produced by pkt mindgames, or just random stuff....

Sorry if I seemed to rant, but I like to give constructive criticism... if you have questions, ask.... I'm happy to help anyone who wants my help... XD (I'm no pro like vice, shaky, or smash64, but I know quite a bit)
Thanks. I'll try to become less predictable with Fair but how am i going to approch with no fair lol. Ness has bad range punishing so I need to approch. Also I started doing FH Pk fires today. I might just use pk flash on some1 with slow recovery. I Want to try to mix up withPk flash a bit. I like using all of Ness moves. Sometimes im a bit of a show off but i try to make use of things no1 uses as well. Like Dash attack or Ftilt. I love using Ftilt.
 

Eagleye893

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the FH pkfire leads into the dj fair as a partial approach. otherwise, fair is difficult to just run in with. you can still do it, but in my experience i often kill myself from it.

dont always feel the need to approach from the air... ness is good enough on the ground to pull through in some cases

EDIT: screw it... fair is fine, but don't use it too much... my arguing will end up ruining you in the long run. all of his attacks are good. fair is good.... but not in excess...
 

oOTjayOo

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the FH pkfire leads into the dj fair as a partial approach. otherwise, fair is difficult to just run in with. you can still do it, but in my experience i often kill myself from it.

dont always feel the need to approach from the air... ness is good enough on the ground to pull through in some cases

EDIT: screw it... fair is fine, but don't use it too much... my arguing will end up ruining you in the long run. all of his attacks are good. fair is good.... but not in excess...
O. Its ok but ill still try the FH PKF into the DJFair. It might make some things happen.
 

Eagleye893

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just use FH Pkfire as a way to put pressure on your opponent... the fair just keeps that pressure going. you can also use nair.... or you could just land with airdodging and continue on ground.... FH PKfire gives a lot of possibilities, IMO.

also, learn the sweetspot for dtilt tripping... so worth it!
 
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