Grab Combos + Other Stuff

Just came back from a 2-day Brawl fest and found quite a few IC specific techniques that I havn't seen mentioned before.

1. Dthrow to fair is absolutely insane. It works on every character I tried it on, you can easily fsmash with popo after it which deals totally around 40%, if they dont tech it/meteor cancel it (I'm not even sure it is canceable/techable so close to the ground but I guess it is) you can easily regrab them. If you do it near the edge you can easily spike them to their doom AND have nana grab the edge by her self so even if they do try to recover the edge is taken and you are free to edgeguard them.

2. This needs farther testing but quite a few times on different characters I've managed to dthrow with popo dair with nana and regrab with popo on low%. I couldn't tell if nana's dair even hits them. Maybe you need specific timing, maybe on some chars you dont need dair and on some you do. Final point is that some characters can be regrabbed and this needs more testing.

3. If for some reason nana grabbed the opponent instead of you and you are rather close to her she will not throw them untill you input a direction. It is possible to throw with her and before the enemy goes anywhere grab them with popo. I didn't manage to do it the other way around.

4. ForwardB barely has any ending lag and can link to other moves easily.

5. Blizzard seemed to be very effective when done in the air so both climbers use it in the same direction, it isn't very punishable and can deal around 30%.

6. The dsmash sends characters in weird directions sometimes. I've seen it send characters at a rather low angle and at 90 degrees straight upwards.

7. Although I'm not quite sure what exactly I did while trying to hug the edge but I grabbed it with popo while nana stayed on the stage, free to smash them when I get up.

Coolies, can't wait until we figure out even more stuff, hopefully ICs will tie with one or two other characters for broken tier some day and I can main a tournament winning character for once, if not then I guess I will have to keep wrecking people with mid tier powa.

Sweet, chaingrabs were one of the things that I loved most about the Ice climbers and Brawl opens up a lot of new possibilities for desyncs/grab combos.

I wish for Dthrow-Utilt.

VirtualVoid said:

1. Dthrow to fair is absolutely insane. It works on every character I tried it on, you can easily fsmash with popo after it which deals totally around 40%, if they dont tech it/meteor cancel it (I'm not even sure it is canceable/techable so close to the ground but I guess it is) you can easily regrab them. If you do it near the edge you can easily spike them to their doom AND have nana grab the edge by her self so even if they do try to recover the edge is taken and you are free to edgeguard them.
YAY! My favorite tech-chase returns! So Fair DOES still spike. :D


2. This needs farther testing but quite a few times on different characters I've managed to dthrow with popo dair with nana and regrab with popo on low%. I couldn't tell if nana's dair even hits them. Maybe you need specific timing, maybe on some chars you dont need dair and on some you do. Final point is that some characters can be regrabbed and this needs more testing.
Shouldn't work at all since everyone's floatier and smash DI is easier.


3. If for some reason nana grabbed the opponent instead of you and you are rather close to her she will not throw them untill you input a direction. It is possible to throw with her and before the enemy goes anywhere grab them with popo. I didn't manage to do it the other way around.
OMG ARE YOU SERIOUS?! IC BROKEN CONFIRMED.


4. ForwardB barely has any ending lag and can link to other moves easily.
AWESOME. Does the solo squall desynch still work?

5. Blizzard seemed to be very effective when done in the air so both climbers use it in the same direction, it isn't very punishable and can deal around 30%.
Old news

6. The dsmash sends characters in weird directions sometimes. I've seen it send characters at a rather low angle and at 90 degrees straight upwards.
Spacing....? Not so sure. test out different ranges

7. Although I'm not quite sure what exactly I did while trying to hug the edge but I grabbed it with popo while nana stayed on the stage, free to smash them when I get up.
cool beans

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Comments in bold.

D-throw to d-air can still work. It worked on Peach in Melee, and she was about the same floatiness as Brawl characters are.

Also, the Nana directional throw sounds AWESOME. Are you sure Nana can't grab from Popo's throws? Try f-throwing with Popo, moving forward a little with Nana, and regrabbing (worked in Melee). If there is a way to regrab with Nana, we've got a broken infinite grab!

Can you do anything in a grab without Popo throwing? (Such as having Nana Blizzard.)

Kyu Puff said:

D-throw to d-air can still work. It worked on Peach in Melee, and she was about the same floatiness as Brawl characters are..)

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The dair in brawl is very different and has knockback unlike in melee + the dthrow sends them farther forward than in melee (Although not my much). I wouldn't say that dthrow dair or dthrow chain is completely gone but if it works its only on certian characters and only on rather low%. Although I did manage to chain charizard with popo alone from 0 to 38 and possibly more but I ran out of ground.

Kyu Puff said:

Also, the Nana directional throw sounds AWESOME. Are you sure Nana can't grab from Popo's throws? Try f-throwing with Popo, moving forward a little with Nana, and regrabbing (worked in Melee). If there is a way to regrab with Nana, we've got a broken infinite grab!

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I am not sure that you can't grab from Popo's throws, I just said I didnt manage to do it. I dont have brawl yet, I played it a fest my friend (I.T.P in the forums) hosted 2 days ago. You can be sure that when I get my brawl I'll check every possibility with the IC.

Kyu Puff said:

Can you do anything in a grab without Popo throwing? (Such as having Nana Blizzard.)

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Yes you can do lots of stuff without popo throwing, however, blizzard in grab doesn't help you hold them longer like it did in melee and they will get out.

Currently the best option I found in grabs is dthrow to fair and work from there. You can smash them, jab them, chase and regrab and probably other things.

VirtualVoid said:

3. If for some reason nana grabbed the opponent instead of you and you are rather close to her she will not throw them untill you input a direction. It is possible to throw with her and before the enemy goes anywhere grab them with popo. I didn't manage to do it the other way around.

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So you can always control which throw Nana uses now? That sounds ridiculously good, since an alternating dthrow CG might be possible.

Yeah if you can control the throw and its possible that means you could catch people for an infinite amount of time almost, just do like Wobbles, edge chaingrab with tilts mixed in should do enough damage even in short distances to make it well worth it, AND it's less escapable than a dair chain or a wobbles was. Probably will be banned tech, although its going to be harder to grab with their new ground speed, I would say the wavedash hurts that as well but I did a lot more dash dances to grabs than I did wavedashes to grabs so I could be wrong.

Another potentially good tactic is something similar to a team grab infinite I see used in doubles occassionally. One could grab with Popo or Nana and do a few grab attacks; when the victim breaks out of the grab, regrab with the other IC while he/she/it is still lagging from the escaped grab and restart the cycle. I can't say whether this is possible or not since I don't know much about Brawl, but I think it's worth trying.

Fly_Amanita said:

Another potentially good tactic is something similar to a team grab infinite I see used in doubles occassionally. One could grab with Popo or Nana and do a few grab attacks; when the victim breaks out of the grab, regrab with the other IC while he/she/it is still lagging from the escaped grab and restart the cycle. I can't say whether this is possible or not since I don't know much about Brawl, but I think it's worth trying.

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Sadly this is not possible (Maybe on specific characters, doubt it) because you can still jump out of grab when you break free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwwJoMFGlZc&NR=1

This may be the grab-with-Nana thing. Either way, it shows potential.

Can someone test that and see if you can break out?

So it works? This is awesome. Infinite grab! Plus, the video shows that you can regrab off of a b-throw too, meaning you don't need extra space (although I see no reason as to why d-throw wouldn't work).

And I'm guessing that you can break out, just like any other grab, but if you throw quickly enough they will not have a chance too.

Ice climbers once again found a way

Once again the Ice climbers have found a way to eat you alive if they get a grab. I wonder how people will react to this though.

Lightning Ice said:

Once again the Ice climbers have found a way to eat you alive if they get a grab. I wonder how people will react to this though.

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They will be even more scared of the beastly IC grab combos

XD We're so cheap. ^_^

OMG Broken, so all I have to do is learn character weights and its F*ing done, oh well ICs for banned tier.

Binx said:

OMG Broken, so all I have to do is learn character weights and its F*ing done, oh well ICs for banned tier.

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You guys realize everyone's gonna use IC now, right? D:

There's ****ing two of 'em will be heard so much more often.

Awsome thread ,VirtualVoid. I'm loving the first technique you mentiones, always was a fan or the F-air and am glad it can still meteor smash =). What's more is that Dedede is a massive target (I'm not his biggest fan at the moment). Keep up the awsomeness man. Psy.

Speedsk8er said:

You guys realize everyone's gonna use IC now, right? D:

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Trufully (Sp?) I hope no one does except a few, because part of what makes maining the IC's fun is how no one expects them to pop up and how the people react to seeing them. If everyone starts playing them, then people will get used to it

I've finally got my own copy of brawl and have some more inresting info to share about the things posted here.

1. Throwing with one climber and grabbing with the other becomes harder when the enemy % goes up, I doubt this can be used effectively above 40-50%. I tried to throw on 50% and grab and failed to do it, even after lots of tries and slowing down on training mode.
BUT have no fear you wont need to do it because......

2. Dthrow to fair
First, if before the grab the enemy has around 25% or less the fair will NOT make them fall on the ground and you can just regrab them, works on everyone I tried. On higher % the enemies will fall to the ground but you can quickly jab them with popo to make them stand up and grab them. If their % is too high and they land too far out for jabbing you can fsmash with popo or simply techchase.
If you dthrow to fair near the edge hopping to meteor them you can continue holding forward resulting in nana grabbing the edge while popo stays on the stage ready to edgeguard.

3. Dthrow
Lots of characters can be chained wtih this but most of these chains end at very low %. Still very usefull and some of the big characters like charizard can be chained for more.

De-Syncs
(Currently I dont see alot of point in desyncing because you want nana to be near you after you grab - its much easier to mash out now. Nanapult goes nowhere near as far as in melee. The only good thing i found that you can do with desyncs is alternating forwardBs following their DI, this move has some invincibility frames, barely lags when your done, does nice damage and eats shields very well).

a. ForwardB desync still works, just input a move just when the ICs are done and only nana will do it.
b. Even though desyncing straight from starting a dash is same as pivot some are not aware that it is possible. Here is a vid of it done in melee http://youtube.com/watch?v=H893tMUvOG0 it's the same in brawl execpt the timing is a bit harder and it causes popo to charge the smash, not nana.
c. Start of match desync still works the same, just hold a or b when the match loads and nana will jab/iceblock.

Also, nana appears to be much more important in brawl. Lucky she is also smarter and much easier to save. Just run of the edge and upB her straight back to the edge.

I will keep you guys updated on anything else interesting I find.
Void out.

How escapable is the f-air chaingrab with DI?

Dash-Smash Desynch = When you dash in the opposite direction, Nana and Popo are seperated by a few frames which allows Popo to dash attack while Nana only charges a smash.

Pivot Desynch = Nana can't Pivot, so when you pivot a move with Popo, Nana will dash attack (or do nothing, if you use Ice Shot or c-stick in Melee).

Not the same, although for some reason they are in Brawl.


Can you experiment with a desynch for me? I played the game a bit, but don't own a copy so I didn't have the chance to get it 100% down. Dash forward, using only the initial dash animation, as if you were foxtrotting, and as you come to a stop, input a move. The timing is really tricky and after a good 15 minutes I still couldn't consistently do it. Another variation I found: Dash, as they come to a stop hit L, B, and release L before they stop. It resulted in Nana shielding for one frame and Popo shooting an Ice Block (the timing was easier on this one).


Edit - So does the throwing animation speed up at higher percentages? I really wanted that infinite to work.