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1337 Zamus TrickZ - Updated

Fastest

Smash Ace
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I was going to keep a lot of stuff secret to gimp early tournaments. But nobody seems to be posting anything about Zamus and I fear that without sparking interest in her, I won't be able to leech off things that everyone else finds. So, here's some Zamus tricks & tactics from someone who has brawl.

- Zamus's recovery is great. You can grab the ledge on one end of Battlefield, fall down, down-b, jump, and tether the opposite side. It's not practical as by the time you get to the other side your opponent should be edge guarding you... But the point is Zamus is crazy good at staying alive on the edge.

- Down B. At first I thought this move was crappy. But... after forcing myself to use it I realized it's amazing.

1) The optional attack spikes.
2) It has invincibility frames.
3) It has invincibility frames.
4) It has invincibility frames.
5) You can ledge cancel the attack to cancel all lag. (Hard to learn the spacing- great for edge guarding.)
6) Walljumps done with it are auto (so long as your control stick is neutral) and have special properties. For example: You can ledge stall indefinitely on FD/Battlefield by simply dropping down, hitting downb and letting the autojump sweet spot for you.
7) It has invincibility frames.
8) Toadstool jumps with it have special properties.
-You can toadstool jump from a greater range/hitbox. Even jump on those hanging on the edge or from the middle of their body.
-Special Toadstool can be done anytime during the move, or even on a SHIELDED opponent.
-The resulting jump is a special jump different than normal toadstools in that you have extreme horizontal DI and move quickly
9) You can do a reverse downb just like marth does a reverse upb.
10) It has invincibility frames - OK. We get it... invincibility frames. What's the big deal? Well, you can jump back on the ledge through your opponent and kick them! In all honesty the invincibility frames aren't THAT cool considering an air dodge does the same thing. But it doesn't eat up a jump- and can/should be used as Zamus' 3rd jump. It's essentially a quicker pre-defined movement airdodge that you can attack with.

- Dsmash!
1) It has misleading range and can hit at the very very edge of the animation with no penalty to its stun duration.
2) It will basically guarantee any move after it.... including another dsmash. It's not an infinite... the second dsmash won't stun but instead knock people away. However, it doesn't knock them away very far- so it's a really good setup for a ton of things. Most notably....

- Upb. We all know this thing "spikes", but it's very hard to do and it's easilly DIed.
1) This only spikes if Zamus is on the ground or moving downwards when she uses it.
2) Short hop->Upb on descent will cause her to float at a 45 degree angle whlie using the move- covering more range than a normal upb from the ground. It's very hard to DI a multihit move that's moving.
3) The spike can be teched. However, Zamus has long range. So a tech to left or right leads into fsmash/over b. A tech at your feet leads into... dsmash+dsmash or uptilt, etc. etc.

- Over B. "Her over B is the best move in the freakin' game" - Tapion
Contrary to what most people think THIS is her longest range attack (not counting the gun's fully charged shot). Why? Because the actual attack extends further than the whip. Here's a picture:

{Zamus Here}-/\/\/\/\O

The wavy line is the whip. The Circle is the spark that's created at the end. The spark is the sweet spot and K.O's like nobody's business. It's such a good move that it should be spammed at any opportunity. It's what keeps her away from people.

This move can go through people at short range... :( (think of yoshi's grab in melee) It also has a weak hit near the whip/hilt part which knocks people into the sweet spot. So at short range it's possible to double hit, or not hit at all. Because of the whiff potential, it's not a good idea to go for those doublehits, but rather, keep sweet spotting that spark.

It also tethers sideways.

- Neutral B
I don't fight noobs, so I've had a hard time using neutral b to any effectiveness. The baby blast is too short to the point that you may as well spam another forward b. HOWEVER - unlike what people have posted, nothing is guaranteed off the baby shot. If your opponent holds shield and mashes downdodge/roll, they will get out of anything. The large shot doesn't have this issue, but the chances of nailing someone with it are low. More testing needed. Right now I hate the move.

- Upsmash
Dthrow->Upsmash will guarantee at least some hits barring an airdodge. More testing needed. I fear in certain situations it can be punished as you can DI out of the thing.
1) Jumpcancelled upair from a dash covers lots of range.
2) Very high priority. Well... absolute priority really, it's basically a multihit projectile.

-Fsmash
1) Faster startup than forward b, but more lag and less range.
2) Also hits behind.
3) Good for tech chases because if you're off on the spacing for the chase a bit, the behind hit may catch.
4) Does not hit as far as the animation would lead you to believe. About 1/2 of the final arc animation is just for show.

-FTilt/Uptilt/Downtilt
1) The 3 spammable shiek-like moves. Have fun!
2) Ftilt is aimable with analog (can hit a ducking Kirby)

-All Arials
Zamus cannot hit a standing target via short hop while rising. THIS IS IMPORTANT and leads to her biggest downfall. She's fast, but can't utilize that speed as she must attack on the downward portion of her jump. Her short hop simply jumps too high too quickly. The exceptions to this are large/tall characters- she can jump into uair and hit a standing bowser/dk/gannon.
1) Dair is a hilarious desperation spike.

-Throws
None of the throws combo into anything. Uthrow/Dthrow are the best because they place you underneath an opponent ripe for juggling attempts.
1) Low percents dthrow->dash->jcancelled upsmash/upb is a good surprise.
2) Mid-High percents dthrow->upair is good, but predictable. Mindgames needed.

-Jab combo
1) TERRIBLE
2) A typical jab combo vs someone good goes like this: a, a, *HIT*... WTF?!?!? You can get jabbed out of the final a even if the first two hit.
3) a, a->dtilt/uptilt/anything is more desirable, but not reliable because nobody gets trained to block the last jab.
4) You can cancel a, or a, a via duck/shield.
5) I suspect jab fakes/cancels will be an important part of most char's moves.
6) The first jab itself is great for interrupting as it's fast.

-Random stuff
1) Zamus can tether 3x before the tether will fail. It will still try to hit the edge, but it won't "stick". Each type of tether counts for the 3- forward b or up b. Meaning, you can grab the edge, drop down, tether, drop down, tether, drop down, tether, before it failing. The second your feet hit the ground you gain your 3 tethers back.
 

staindgrey

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^same as above^

Good read.
 

James Sparrow

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1) Zamus can tether 3x before the tether will fail. It will still try to hit the edge, but it won't "stick". Each type of tether counts for the 3- forward b or up b. Meaning, you can grab the edge, drop down, tether, drop down, tether, drop down, tether, before it failing. The second your feet hit the ground you gain your 3 tethers back.
That's really good to know.
 

T0MMY

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A few changes are needed in your info, but this is great to start with.

  • Exaggerations like the tip of her B> whip "KO's like nobody's business" or 'B> is the best move in the game' should be changed because it's misleading. With proper DI your opponent won't get KO'd very easily.
  • I think I can pull off some of her aerials on my way up, like her +A^
  • She will actually go up higher in her ascent with the +B^ in conjunction with her jump.
  • Take DI into account with her throws, I've combo'd out of them.
  • 'Foot-stool Stomp', not "toadstool jump"
 

Gum

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Im not sure what you mean when you say she cant attack on the rise of her jumps. it seems like everytime I see a ZS vid, she goes in for the aerial combo after a set-up and attacks with up airs as soon as she jumps. in fact it seems like she is very fast in the air. do my eyes decieve me? If this is the case, how do her aerial combos work at all? it would seem like all her combos would be interrupted all the time if that were really the case.
 

Fastest

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A few changes are needed in your info, but this is great to start with.
Exaggerations like the tip of her B> whip "KO's like nobody's business" or 'B> is the best move in the game' should be changed because it's misleading. With proper DI your opponent won't get KO'd very easily.
If Tapion says it's her best move, then it deserves to be exaggerated.

I think I can pull off some of her aerials on my way up, like her +A^
You misunderstand.

1) Go to training mode.
2) Select Zamus, with anyone of average size as your opponent.
3) Stand right in front of them while facing them.
4) Try to hit them with an arial on the ascent.
5) Cry.

She will actually go up higher in her ascent with the +B^ in conjunction with her jump.
I didn't want to list this in the context of attacking as it's more of a liability. It's true, if you use upb on the ascent she'll fly awkwardly into the air. It's useful for recovery and should belong there. Good catch.

Take DI into account with her throws, I've combo'd out of them.
You're against crappy people who haven't gotten used to brawl yet then. It's not a combo if they can get out of it with DI/airdodge. It's a string.

I don't post strings with the exception of dsmash->dsmash->followup because that's a guaranteed combo that leads into a guaranteed string.

It goes without saying that after a throw you should be looking for an opportunity- but it requires training the opponent to airdodge or DI certain ways.

Foot-stool Stomp', not "toadstool jump"
Wow.... NERD!
 

Fastest

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Im not sure what you mean when you say she cant attack on the rise of her jumps. it seems like everytime I see a ZS vid, she goes in for the aerial combo after a set-up and attacks with up airs as soon as she jumps. in fact it seems like she is very fast in the air. do my eyes decieve me? If this is the case, how do her aerial combos work at all? it would seem like all her combos would be interrupted all the time if that were really the case.
See above with my training mode example.

Ascent vs a standing opponent. It's a killer too :/
 

Ken34

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good stuff, some of this i already experienced myself, like her down B, when i played i found it was a really good move, i actually used it quite alot, and it is very good as an edgeguard once u get use to using it/timing. I try to spam her forward B, but i fail at actually ever landing this move, i guess i just need to play more.
 

The Great Leon

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Good ****. However, I would disagree with Up Smash having crazy priority. Iirc, an Up Smash vs Ness' D Air barely won, and only after several hits on the aerial attack. Things like DeDeDe's D Air will go right through it, leaving you vulnerable as you're still stuck in the animation. And give Neutral B a chance, it probably will only seem useful if you're playing a campy game, or if you spam it a lot to keep the pressure on. No matter how gimp a weak blast will be, they're still going to avoid it.
 

Cobra

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9) You can do a reverse downb just like marth does a reverse upb.
...can you explain this a bit more?.... are you saying that there is a way to reverse the direction you travel with it, or that it can be used to attakc in someway.

I think I know what you're talking about when you're playing Marth, and an Up+B facving the opposite direction of an enemy can kill them, but I'm not sure.

,could I get a little clarification?

Also, i've found that the optional attack out of the Down+B doesn't always spike, though I'm not exactly sure on when it spikes and when it doesn't, all I know is that a few times when i thought it would spike an opponent, it would actually send them up and save them and then screw me over as they edgeguarded my tether and the new game physcis gets confused and the tether attaches to nothing, plummetting me to my death.
 

Fastest

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You can be facing/running one direction, but do down-b and have her jump in the opposite direction.

It does nothing different to the move. Just that you can fire it off in the opposite direction without turning around.
 

AKC12

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I've noticed from vids that Zamus is a combo beast in the air as well. Memory might be jagged but her AUA is a great juggle move at low percents, and add her Dspecial and mid air jump with her quick aerials, she can do the enemy in both the ground and the air... Her AUA is also a great kill move as well...
 

artifice

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frankly when you play beter people, its hard to get a lot of nice combos off, they will air dodge a lot, beat your jab combos to hell, and DI up B's/usmash. i guess im saying a lot of thoughs vids are against bad people.

Ill post vids after this tournament this weekend but ill add a couple things ive found to be helpfull. sense this guy put some good stuff down.

- Dash into side b. this is goooood for mind games. the dash grab gets punished easly and is hard to time, the side b seems to come out faster when in a dash (of the same direction your going to side b), just a great change up.

-changing directions in air for Nuetral b. This was talked about a little in another thread, but you mentioned you thought nutral b wasnt very good (its not great). but with zamus you are jumping back and having spacing battles so often its great to run away short hope, slap the other direction and then hit nutral b, then land/fire, not too much lag, and will open up to you running tword them for shield presure or a grab.

-if you down b and then attack, you wont be able to wall jump for awhile, so becareful on FD and yoshi's (where walljumping is great for zamus)

-for certin characters, dsmash, dsmash, to up b can be used very well, the trick tho... if you get the down smash off, then tap forward (scooting tword them) then dsmash again, then up b. I find this to be the best way of geting close enough to up b. it seems to matter a lot on who you are playing against tho...
AND BTW - after you upb, almost allways can you dsmash again ;D nothing garanteed and the higher the precent the beter.
(my friend calls it the garbage combo.)

Fair mind games. this seems to work on fair more then uairs. when then spot dodge the fair (say after you launched them VIA dthrow. Just fastfall into another fair, usualy gets them. again dost seem to work as well with uair.

-the no throw. I picked this up while playing with peach, her throws are so bad. if you hear your oponent just going crazy on their controler to wiggle out of a throw. just keep hitting them and spam the down smash, if there not rdy they sometimes get hit with dsmash after the grab wheres out, wich will combo into an fsmash or whatever. I like it at high percentages.
(sometimes there is an auto jump out of the no throw grab? havnt figured this out yet but my friend mentioned it once.)


I think the well spaced nair might be the secret to the short hoped attack, but i havnt quite got it down yet...
 

Fastest

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frankly when you play beter people, its hard to get a lot of nice combos off, they will air dodge a lot, beat your jab combos to hell, and DI up B's/usmash. i guess im saying a lot of thoughs vids are against bad people.
This is what's causing people to think Zamus is better than she is. She's very string-oriented rather than combo oriented. With all the crap she throws out, it's very hard to not get hit by things, but nothing is guaranteed.

For example: Dthrow->uair is not guaranteed, but if they DI the wrong way, fair is... or, if they airdodge quickly, upb will connect. You have to react.

- Dash into side b. this is goooood for mind games. the dash grab gets punished easly and is hard to time, the side b seems to come out faster when in a dash (of the same direction your going to side b), just a great change up.
This is really good. If you wait to dash, she'll fly through the opponent, and you'll be safe from grabs. It's great because an utilt from behind them will most likely beat any attack they respond with. However, if the dash connects, then you get that sideb. It's win-win if you train your opponent to allow you ito dash attack.

-the no throw. I picked this up while playing with peach, her throws are so bad. if you hear your oponent just going crazy on their controler to wiggle out of a throw. just keep hitting them and spam the down smash, if there not rdy they sometimes get hit with dsmash after the grab wheres out, wich will combo into an fsmash or whatever. I like it at high percentages.
(sometimes there is an auto jump out of the no throw grab? havnt figured this out yet but my friend mentioned it once.)
The auto jump is them inputting a jump into the buffer so that when they get released from the grab it is executed.

I think the well spaced nair might be the secret to the short hoped attack, but i havnt quite got it down yet...
nair makes you float at the tip of your jump X_X. She doe shave a short hop game, just... it's slower than it should be given that she can't hit a standing opponent while ascending the short hop. The best I've found is to sh falling uairs- even if you miss the initial hitbox, the "eddie spike" portion will launch.
 

Cobra

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You can be facing/running one direction, but do down-b and have her jump in the opposite direction.

It does nothing different to the move. Just that you can fire it off in the opposite direction without turning around.
...sorry to be a pill about this, but can you describe directional inputs and how you do this on the cotnroller. As far as I can tell, everytime I Down+B, it jsut shoots me up towards the direction I'm facing. Thanks!
 

T0MMY

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If Tapion says it's her best move, then it deserves to be exaggerated.
I thought he said best move in the game.
Proof in point: Wario's Waft.[/QUOTE]


You misunderstand.

1) Go to training mode.
2) Select Zamus, with anyone of average size as your opponent.
3) Stand right in front of them while facing them.
4) Try to hit them with an arial on the ascent.
5) Cry.
Average size? So then it is possible.
(skips step 5)

You're against crappy people who haven't gotten used to brawl yet then. It's not a combo if they can get out of it with DI/airdodge. It's a string.

I don't post strings with the exception of dsmash->dsmash->followup because that's a guaranteed combo that leads into a guaranteed string.

It goes without saying that after a throw you should be looking for an opportunity- but it requires training the opponent to airdodge or DI certain ways.
Haha, true, nobody's good with Brawl yet, considering the game hasn't been available for very long. However, I would not say they are crappy players in the least.
But I still disagree about the only combo being D-Smash to D-Smash. Out of D-Smash you can actually lead into a jab without them moving, and then any other attack after that, that's at least a three-hit combo. Most of the combos in Brawl may just be strings, but I believe people are exaggerating when they say there are no absolute combos in the game. I obviously don't have time to smash-DI everything perfectly and test it all out. Calling them strings or combos is getting too technical, if I can keep pulling it off in a match I'll keep doing it until my opponent gets out of it and then I'll switch it up. That's a good strategy to keep in mind with Brawl. And eventually we'll get the raw data we need to figure out strings/combos in the future.


Wow.... NERD!
I think you mean to call me a geek ;^)
 

Fastest

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I thought he said best move in the game.
Proof in point: Wario's Waft.
Average size? So then it is possible.
(skips step 5)
Only works on Charizard (LIZARDON!), Bowser, DK, Dedede, and Gannon.

Haha, true, nobody's good with Brawl yet, considering the game hasn't been available for very long. However, I would not say they are crappy players in the least.
They must not learn quickly then.

But I still disagree about the only combo being D-Smash to D-Smash. Out of D-Smash you can actually lead into a jab without them moving, and then any other attack after that, that's at least a three-hit combo.
Dsmash will give you practically anything for free. It's stupid to factor all permutations of dsmash->whatever because dsmash->dsmash->X is the best thing you'd really ever want to do.

Most of the combos in Brawl may just be strings, but I believe people are exaggerating when they say there are no absolute combos in the game. I obviously don't have time to smash-DI everything perfectly and test it all out. Calling them strings or combos is getting too technical, if I can keep pulling it off in a match I'll keep doing it until my opponent gets out of it and then I'll switch it up. That's a good strategy to keep in mind with Brawl. And eventually we'll get the raw data we need to figure out strings/combos in the future.
It's really nothing to do with DI. The new airdodge is the real killer. Most people are stuck in melee-mode for airdodging. Strings vs. combos is not too technical- all fighting games use them. It's to prevent some kid from logging on a soul calibur message board, typing out a ridiculous set of moves, and calling it a combo.

Combos are guaranteed.
Strings are not.

There's a big difference - and nothing too technical about the distinction.

People don't "fall" for combos- they get hit by the first move, and can't escape them. For someone to "fall" for something, the successive move must not be guaranteed, and thus, you've trained them to react that way.

If you go to any other fighting game message board- they only list combos, natural combos, and combos based on extenuating circumstances. Strings have more to do with mindgames and setups.
 

JoeTang

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...sorry to be a pill about this, but can you describe directional inputs and how you do this on the cotnroller. As far as I can tell, everytime I Down+B, it jsut shoots me up towards the direction I'm facing. Thanks!
Hit Down B and quickly press the direction opposite the one you are facing. You should be able to turn that way, similar to reversing Marth's Dolphin Slash.
 

Fastest

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...sorry to be a pill about this, but can you describe directional inputs and how you do this on the cotnroller. As far as I can tell, everytime I Down+B, it jsut shoots me up towards the direction I'm facing. Thanks!
Sure thing!

The proper input is:

Stop being a noob.
 

Cra$hman

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(sometimes there is an auto jump out of the no throw grab? havnt figured this out yet but my friend mentioned it once.)
in melee atleast, autojumping from a no-throw happens when the person happens to be holding up when they get released. they kick away at a 45 degree angle instead of staying on the ground. i imagine its pretty much the same in brawl.
 

El Cancel

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thanks fastest for the info.

i like that you brought up combos and strings (e.g. zss jab string... only the first two hits combo, the 3rd is blockable, right?). it really does make a difference.

sometimes the word combo is just said too much. if there are options to escape, then it's not a combo.
 

Cobra

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Get used to it! This is my new home! And better than you at Brawl.
I believe what you meant to say was : "And I'm better then you at Brawl."

, which in all likelihood is true, BUT it doesn't give you the right to be a jerk. Just because you're good at Brawl, doesn't mean you don't have to subscribe to the rules of common decency in a help forums. It would have been easy for you to just say Hold left right as you Down+B ...

... but I suppose such things are below your mighty greatness right?
 

Cobra

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You guys should show fastest more respect. He's actually roommates with a very well-respected smasher.
Ooooo reallly?!?!?!? HIS ROOMATE?!?!!?!?

...*rolls eyes*

...respect is earned, not given. I don't care how good you are at Smash, if you're just a huge jerk, then you're not worthy of any kind of respect.
 

.kR0

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Ya it is.
I get disconnected every single time when I try to do random battles.

I do want to play with you know, people thats different (my room-mate and I kinda got tired of playing against each other).

Yeah, your in WI so the connection I guess would be pretty bad.
 
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