Jewdo
Smash Journeyman
"Glide-Toss Detailed Analysis"
by Jewdo
INTRODUCTION
After reading about the Glide Toss in the Tactical Discussion area, I decided to test just how many characters could use it, and if so, how far each one traveled. The following post contains the results of the investigation.
There are four confirmed types of glide toss, an easy way to glide-toss, and an ability to influence which direction you throw the item independently of your glide-toss direction.
There are also two methods to perform each glide-toss - one hard, one easy. I'll explain with the difficult one first because the mechanics behind the move are clearer to see that way. The Easy-performance technique is at the bottom of the "How To" section.
HOW TO IDENTIFY AND PERFORM THE FOUR TYPES OF GLIDE TOSS
FORWARD glide-toss - Character both moves and throws the item in the same direction they were facing immediately before the roll began. Like a forward wavedash with an item toss.
How to perform: Hold a shield button and press forward on the joystick to initiate a forward roll. Then press "A" when the shield disappears but before the "roll" actually begins. The A-press is done during the first frame(s) of the roll animation. Timing is character-dependent.
REVERSE glide-toss - Character turns around and moves in the opposite direction they were facing immediately before the roll began. The item is thrown in the same direction the character just moved. Like turning 180 degrees before doing a forward wavedash with an item toss.
How to perform: Hold a shield button and press backward on the joystick to initiate a backward roll. Then press "A" when the shield disappears but before the "roll" actually begins. Be sure to hold the joystick in the direction your character is rolling until you're sure your character has turned around. If not, you may do a BACKWARD glide-toss by mistake.
BACKWARD glide-toss - Character throws the item in the same direction they were facing immediately before the roll, but moves in the opposite direction. Like a backwards wavedash with an item-toss.
How to perform: Hold a shield button and press backward on the joystick to initiate a backward roll. Then press "A" when the shield disappears but before the "roll" actually begins and release the joystick IMMEDIATELY. The amount of time the joystick spends away from the center should ideally be the least necessary for the game to detect that you want to roll.
FORWARD-2-REVERSE glide-toss - Character moves in the same direction they were initially facing, but is now facing the opposite direction. Item is thrown in the new direction the character is now facing. Like turning 180 degrees and tossing an item WHILE doing a wavedash. (update: confirmed 3-19-2008)
How to perform (credit to Kiwi.Ko): Hold a shield button and press forward on the joystick to initiate a forward roll. Then, when the shield disappears but before the "roll" actually begins, slam the joystick ALMOST IMMEDIATELY in the opposite direction and press "A." The time the joystick spends in the initial "forward" direction should be the least necessary for the game to detect that you want to roll.
HOW TO DO EASY GLIDE TOSSING AND DIRECTIONAL GLIDE-TOSSING (added 3-19-2008)
EASY GLIDE-TOSS - Hold a shield button down and initiate a roll in the direction you would normally do the glide-toss. Instead of pressing "A" (and, in some cases, re-positioning the joystick), simply move the C-stick in the direction you want to toss the item. For Forward, press the C-stick forward, for Forward-To-Reverse, press the C-stick back, etc.
Note that EASY tossing will always use the "smash" toss if the C-stick is set to "smashes," and "normal" toss if the C-stick is set to "attacks."
DIRECTIONAL GLIDE-TOSS (credit to Kiwi.Ko) - Initiate the roll corresponding to the glide-toss you want your character to perform, and when the shield goes down, ALMOST IMMEDIATELY move the joystick to the direction you want to throw the item before pressing A. This is performed in the same manner as the FORWARD TO REVERSE glide-toss, and can throw the item in ANY direction during ANY glide-toss.
Note that the direction you throw the item has no effect on the distance your glide-toss travels, only whether you "smash" toss or "normal" toss.
EASY DIRECTIONAL GLIDE-TOSS - When doing ANY glide-toss, move the C-stick in ANY cardinal direction (Up, Down, Forward, Backward) instead of pressing the "A" button (and, in some cases, re-positioning the joystick). You can toss an item in any direction while using any glide-toss, just as a normal DIRECTIONAL glide-toss. However, this method is far, far easier.
BACK-2-REVERSE GLIDE-TOSS METHOD - To do a different type of REVERSE glide-toss, do an EASY backward glide-toss and press back on the C-stick instead of forward. This will turn you around and throw the item, but with BACKWARD distance instead of REVERSE distance.
READING THE CHART
*EDIT* - The numbers in this thread's Distance Chart are horribly outdated. BurningCrusader777 has put together a far better distance chart, located in [this thread]. The chart below is preserved purely for historical purposes.
F, B, R - Forward, Backward, and Reverse. Numbers in each of these places correspond to the character's forward, backward, and reverse glide-toss distances respectively.
Distance - rated on a scale of 0-5+. This is the approximate number of "sights" (the little square indentations) on the side of Final Destination that the character travels when they perform their glide toss, rounded down if no decimal is present. I say approximate because there are small differences between, say, Snake and Marth, who are both rated 2, but a 3 will always glide farther than a 2, etc. For those of you who don't care to count the notches on FD, here's a Melee-referenced way to interpret the ratings.
5+ = superior distance; travels around 2X as far as a 4, give or take.
5 = excellent; travels very far, very fast. Like Luigi's wavedash from Melee.
4 = great; travels farther than most glide-tosses. Above-average wavedash.
3 = good; travels about as far as the average wavedash from Melee (Ness, Falco)
2 = fair; travels noticeably, may be useful.
1 = poor; travels noticeably, but not enough to make a difference in most cases.
0 = barely noticeable, if at all. Must zoom the camera in some cases to detect displacement.
R0 = For REVERSE only. The REVERSE does turn the character around, but does not slide them noticeably in the new direction.
N0 = Could not perform, therefore no distance traveled.
MISCELLANEOUS NOTES ABOUT GLIDE-TOSSING
1) Sometimes whether a character does "smash" sticking or "tilt" sticking for the throw affects the distance traveled. Situations in which the distance is affected by a point or more are marked in the chart below by the notation X:Y, where X is the lower of the two distances and Y is the higher. Whether you use "smash" or "tilt" sticking is visible in the throw animation (your strong or weak throw animation will show on screen).
1.5) Some of the single numbers are simply the furthest distance traveled because (a) the other distance differed only negligibly or, (b) the other distance is not useful (R0 or 1, for example). I don't think there are any cases of (b), but I'm just covering in case I got lazy.
2) A character's FORWARD glide-toss distance is NOT related to their BACKWARD or REVERSE glide-toss distances, and vice-versa. Same numbers indicate coincidence, not relationship.
3) The type of item held does not matter, as long as it is not "heavy", like a crate. This is because you cannot shield while holding "heavy" items.
4) If you can perform a glide-toss with a character I marked "N0", send me replay data as proof and I will credit you with the discovery.
5) I apologize in advance for the crappy formatting. Thank you for bearing with it.
Character F, B, R
Mario 0, 0, 3
Luigi 0, 1, 5+
Peach 3, 1, 0.5
Bowser 0, N0, R0
D.K. 5+, N0, R0
Diddy 3.5, 3, 4
Yoshi N0, N0, N0 (can't break out of egg shield)
Wario 1.5, 1.5, 2
Link N0, *, R0 (* = moves FORWARD one toe-length. Strange, but true)
Zelda 2.5, 3, 5+
Sheik 0, *, R0 (* = moves FORWARD one toe-length. Strange, but true)
Ganon 3, 2, R0
Toon Link N0, N0, R0
Samus 2, 3, 3
ZS Samus 5, N0, R0
Pit 5+, 5+, 5+
Ice Climbers 2, N0, R0
Rob 4:5, 4:5, 4:5 (4 for tilt-toss, 5 for smash-throw)
Kirby N0, N0, R0
Meta-knight 5+, 5+, R0:5+
DeDeDe N0, N0, R0
olimar 1.5, 0, R0
Fox 1, 0, 1
Falco 5+, N0, R0
Wolf 1.25, 1, 1
C. Falc 2, 1:5, 1:5
Pikachu 2, 2, 1
Squirtle 4:5, 4, 3
Ivysaur 2:3, 2.5, 2
Charizard 0.5, 0, R0
Lucario 1, 3, 3.5
Puff 0, N0, R0
Marth 2.5, 5+, 5+
Ike 0, 2, 2
Lucas 0, 1, 1
G&W 5+, 5+, R0
Snake 2, 2, 2
Sonic 5+, 5+, 5+
Ness 0, 1:2, 1:2
Applications:
(1) Zero-Suit Samus - pick up one of the fallen suit parts at the beginning of the match/end of the final smash. Glide-toss it at your opponent, charging or releasing a smash (or grab) mid-glide to strike them just after the part hits. Then, re-collect the part mere instants after it left your hand.
(2) Diddy-Kong - toss a banana, then pick it up. Glide-toss toward your opponent if he's far away from you, so you can rush in with a smash the instant he falls down, or glide-toss backward against a charging opponent. Also, Glide away from a charging opponent and Toss the banana down. He'll trip, landing easily within your range.
(3) Snake - Hold B to pull out a grenade, then bring up your shield while still holding B. You can now pick up the grenade and backward-glide-toss it at your opponent just before the 3-second timer expires. He should explode while you slide gracefully out of the blast radius.
(4) Peach - Glide-toss turnips as you retreat for a defensive interrupt, or glide-toss forward for a similar (but less damaging) effect as the Samus application.
(5) Almost Any Character vs. item generating character - If your opponent chucks a grabbable at you (Link/Toon Link bombs, for example), catch the item and use the glide-toss of your choice. Can stave off a rushing offender, quickly close a distance gap, or even create a "trap" by tossing the item into the air and waiting for it to come back down.
by Jewdo
INTRODUCTION
After reading about the Glide Toss in the Tactical Discussion area, I decided to test just how many characters could use it, and if so, how far each one traveled. The following post contains the results of the investigation.
There are four confirmed types of glide toss, an easy way to glide-toss, and an ability to influence which direction you throw the item independently of your glide-toss direction.
There are also two methods to perform each glide-toss - one hard, one easy. I'll explain with the difficult one first because the mechanics behind the move are clearer to see that way. The Easy-performance technique is at the bottom of the "How To" section.
HOW TO IDENTIFY AND PERFORM THE FOUR TYPES OF GLIDE TOSS
FORWARD glide-toss - Character both moves and throws the item in the same direction they were facing immediately before the roll began. Like a forward wavedash with an item toss.
How to perform: Hold a shield button and press forward on the joystick to initiate a forward roll. Then press "A" when the shield disappears but before the "roll" actually begins. The A-press is done during the first frame(s) of the roll animation. Timing is character-dependent.
REVERSE glide-toss - Character turns around and moves in the opposite direction they were facing immediately before the roll began. The item is thrown in the same direction the character just moved. Like turning 180 degrees before doing a forward wavedash with an item toss.
How to perform: Hold a shield button and press backward on the joystick to initiate a backward roll. Then press "A" when the shield disappears but before the "roll" actually begins. Be sure to hold the joystick in the direction your character is rolling until you're sure your character has turned around. If not, you may do a BACKWARD glide-toss by mistake.
BACKWARD glide-toss - Character throws the item in the same direction they were facing immediately before the roll, but moves in the opposite direction. Like a backwards wavedash with an item-toss.
How to perform: Hold a shield button and press backward on the joystick to initiate a backward roll. Then press "A" when the shield disappears but before the "roll" actually begins and release the joystick IMMEDIATELY. The amount of time the joystick spends away from the center should ideally be the least necessary for the game to detect that you want to roll.
FORWARD-2-REVERSE glide-toss - Character moves in the same direction they were initially facing, but is now facing the opposite direction. Item is thrown in the new direction the character is now facing. Like turning 180 degrees and tossing an item WHILE doing a wavedash. (update: confirmed 3-19-2008)
How to perform (credit to Kiwi.Ko): Hold a shield button and press forward on the joystick to initiate a forward roll. Then, when the shield disappears but before the "roll" actually begins, slam the joystick ALMOST IMMEDIATELY in the opposite direction and press "A." The time the joystick spends in the initial "forward" direction should be the least necessary for the game to detect that you want to roll.
HOW TO DO EASY GLIDE TOSSING AND DIRECTIONAL GLIDE-TOSSING (added 3-19-2008)
EASY GLIDE-TOSS - Hold a shield button down and initiate a roll in the direction you would normally do the glide-toss. Instead of pressing "A" (and, in some cases, re-positioning the joystick), simply move the C-stick in the direction you want to toss the item. For Forward, press the C-stick forward, for Forward-To-Reverse, press the C-stick back, etc.
Note that EASY tossing will always use the "smash" toss if the C-stick is set to "smashes," and "normal" toss if the C-stick is set to "attacks."
DIRECTIONAL GLIDE-TOSS (credit to Kiwi.Ko) - Initiate the roll corresponding to the glide-toss you want your character to perform, and when the shield goes down, ALMOST IMMEDIATELY move the joystick to the direction you want to throw the item before pressing A. This is performed in the same manner as the FORWARD TO REVERSE glide-toss, and can throw the item in ANY direction during ANY glide-toss.
Note that the direction you throw the item has no effect on the distance your glide-toss travels, only whether you "smash" toss or "normal" toss.
EASY DIRECTIONAL GLIDE-TOSS - When doing ANY glide-toss, move the C-stick in ANY cardinal direction (Up, Down, Forward, Backward) instead of pressing the "A" button (and, in some cases, re-positioning the joystick). You can toss an item in any direction while using any glide-toss, just as a normal DIRECTIONAL glide-toss. However, this method is far, far easier.
BACK-2-REVERSE GLIDE-TOSS METHOD - To do a different type of REVERSE glide-toss, do an EASY backward glide-toss and press back on the C-stick instead of forward. This will turn you around and throw the item, but with BACKWARD distance instead of REVERSE distance.
READING THE CHART
*EDIT* - The numbers in this thread's Distance Chart are horribly outdated. BurningCrusader777 has put together a far better distance chart, located in [this thread]. The chart below is preserved purely for historical purposes.
F, B, R - Forward, Backward, and Reverse. Numbers in each of these places correspond to the character's forward, backward, and reverse glide-toss distances respectively.
Distance - rated on a scale of 0-5+. This is the approximate number of "sights" (the little square indentations) on the side of Final Destination that the character travels when they perform their glide toss, rounded down if no decimal is present. I say approximate because there are small differences between, say, Snake and Marth, who are both rated 2, but a 3 will always glide farther than a 2, etc. For those of you who don't care to count the notches on FD, here's a Melee-referenced way to interpret the ratings.
5+ = superior distance; travels around 2X as far as a 4, give or take.
5 = excellent; travels very far, very fast. Like Luigi's wavedash from Melee.
4 = great; travels farther than most glide-tosses. Above-average wavedash.
3 = good; travels about as far as the average wavedash from Melee (Ness, Falco)
2 = fair; travels noticeably, may be useful.
1 = poor; travels noticeably, but not enough to make a difference in most cases.
0 = barely noticeable, if at all. Must zoom the camera in some cases to detect displacement.
R0 = For REVERSE only. The REVERSE does turn the character around, but does not slide them noticeably in the new direction.
N0 = Could not perform, therefore no distance traveled.
MISCELLANEOUS NOTES ABOUT GLIDE-TOSSING
1) Sometimes whether a character does "smash" sticking or "tilt" sticking for the throw affects the distance traveled. Situations in which the distance is affected by a point or more are marked in the chart below by the notation X:Y, where X is the lower of the two distances and Y is the higher. Whether you use "smash" or "tilt" sticking is visible in the throw animation (your strong or weak throw animation will show on screen).
1.5) Some of the single numbers are simply the furthest distance traveled because (a) the other distance differed only negligibly or, (b) the other distance is not useful (R0 or 1, for example). I don't think there are any cases of (b), but I'm just covering in case I got lazy.
2) A character's FORWARD glide-toss distance is NOT related to their BACKWARD or REVERSE glide-toss distances, and vice-versa. Same numbers indicate coincidence, not relationship.
3) The type of item held does not matter, as long as it is not "heavy", like a crate. This is because you cannot shield while holding "heavy" items.
4) If you can perform a glide-toss with a character I marked "N0", send me replay data as proof and I will credit you with the discovery.
5) I apologize in advance for the crappy formatting. Thank you for bearing with it.
Character F, B, R
Mario 0, 0, 3
Luigi 0, 1, 5+
Peach 3, 1, 0.5
Bowser 0, N0, R0
D.K. 5+, N0, R0
Diddy 3.5, 3, 4
Yoshi N0, N0, N0 (can't break out of egg shield)
Wario 1.5, 1.5, 2
Link N0, *, R0 (* = moves FORWARD one toe-length. Strange, but true)
Zelda 2.5, 3, 5+
Sheik 0, *, R0 (* = moves FORWARD one toe-length. Strange, but true)
Ganon 3, 2, R0
Toon Link N0, N0, R0
Samus 2, 3, 3
ZS Samus 5, N0, R0
Pit 5+, 5+, 5+
Ice Climbers 2, N0, R0
Rob 4:5, 4:5, 4:5 (4 for tilt-toss, 5 for smash-throw)
Kirby N0, N0, R0
Meta-knight 5+, 5+, R0:5+
DeDeDe N0, N0, R0
olimar 1.5, 0, R0
Fox 1, 0, 1
Falco 5+, N0, R0
Wolf 1.25, 1, 1
C. Falc 2, 1:5, 1:5
Pikachu 2, 2, 1
Squirtle 4:5, 4, 3
Ivysaur 2:3, 2.5, 2
Charizard 0.5, 0, R0
Lucario 1, 3, 3.5
Puff 0, N0, R0
Marth 2.5, 5+, 5+
Ike 0, 2, 2
Lucas 0, 1, 1
G&W 5+, 5+, R0
Snake 2, 2, 2
Sonic 5+, 5+, 5+
Ness 0, 1:2, 1:2
Applications:
(1) Zero-Suit Samus - pick up one of the fallen suit parts at the beginning of the match/end of the final smash. Glide-toss it at your opponent, charging or releasing a smash (or grab) mid-glide to strike them just after the part hits. Then, re-collect the part mere instants after it left your hand.
(2) Diddy-Kong - toss a banana, then pick it up. Glide-toss toward your opponent if he's far away from you, so you can rush in with a smash the instant he falls down, or glide-toss backward against a charging opponent. Also, Glide away from a charging opponent and Toss the banana down. He'll trip, landing easily within your range.
(3) Snake - Hold B to pull out a grenade, then bring up your shield while still holding B. You can now pick up the grenade and backward-glide-toss it at your opponent just before the 3-second timer expires. He should explode while you slide gracefully out of the blast radius.
(4) Peach - Glide-toss turnips as you retreat for a defensive interrupt, or glide-toss forward for a similar (but less damaging) effect as the Samus application.
(5) Almost Any Character vs. item generating character - If your opponent chucks a grabbable at you (Link/Toon Link bombs, for example), catch the item and use the glide-toss of your choice. Can stave off a rushing offender, quickly close a distance gap, or even create a "trap" by tossing the item into the air and waiting for it to come back down.
