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Mini WWYP4 - Redcell's Comments

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tmw_redcell

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Alright, thanks for all the entries guys! I mean there are four but they're just what I was hoping four. I have them all fully ranked and scored by Virg doesn't. I am going to post my comments now in the hopes that some of you will give your stories a quick revision by Wednesday since that's when I gotta print them. I really should have done this sooner.

If any of you want a fuller critique, I will give it to you as promised, but it will have to be like a month from now.

An Eased Mind by Sunrise W12:

You describe a lot of things twice or more. For instance, “I was never a suicidal person. I had always though suicide was cheap and pathetic, but the apathy and despondence inside me took over for that instant.” You should just leave out “I was never a suicidal person.” Yes, the next sentence gives a slightly different view, but you gotta pick and choose since it’s still 90% redundant. It will make your writing tighter.

I like the paragraph leading up to the crash.

In the first hospital scene, you do a lot of telling and not a lot of showing. You talk about a lot of talking but there is not a lot of actual dialogue given. Show some of that.

When Kelly walks in, she’s described with blue eyes then piercing green eyes, ones that he seems to remember. I’m guessing there’s a mistake in there.

You start to get a few typos toward the end. No big deal though.

“yelling various things as the doctor did things to my hurt abdomen.” “Hurt” is an underwhelming adjective here.

I kinda like the idea for this story, though it’s not very original. Although I’ve never heard the song, “Bridge Over Troubled Water,” you picked a good one since whatever you need to know about it is in the name of the song.

Also, on last thing about the ending, if Kelly has moved to New York she’s not going to be in any phone book outside of there.

Overall this story is pretty solid. I’d say your biggest problems are over-description and telling instead of showing. You have some good original moments (like describing Kelly disappearing) and should work on coming up with more of those, as some of your other descriptions are bland. Come up with more specific and concrete things instead of vague ones.




Bargaining Chip by Raul

For the first chapter and a bit, you call Ellasar “the angel.” It’s a common rookie mistake to not use a character’s name until someone else says it, but it’s better to just use it soon or right away. It makes your characters feel more like individuals.

I actually thought the Behemoth’s story was interesting! So I thought the ending to the second chapter was funny, in a good way.

In some of the battle scenes, it is hard to keep track of where the characters are, and some things seem to happen out of the blue. Even when you describe things that happen suddenly, for instance, the Behemoth’s axe hitting the Leviathan, you should say, “an axe hit him” instead of “the axe hit him” since “the axe” hasn’t really been introduced.

You are somewhat over-descriptive. Use adjectives and adverbs sparingly.

When Ellasar is going to cross the lake of fire, he just seems really stupid for not taking the Behemoth and the Ziz with him. You should give that a more robust explanation than simply wanting to do it on his own.

The final chapter is weird (but that’s okay) but it also changes voice at times. Describing women as blondes, brunettes, and redheads jumped out at me in particular; just say they have brown, red, and blonde hair. Also, the redheads seem to be wasting their talents with just brining in wine! Satan is smarter than that. Another thing that jumped out was describing the incubus’ sex as “meaningless,” it seems kind of shoehorned in there. Although the entire scene with the incubi isn’t as necessary as it is “edgy” so to speak, but I can see its thematic significance in that there is some pleasure to be had in Hell even after Ellasar is taken by Satan.

The ending is great in idea but it seems kind of rushed. I appreciate the explanation at the end though, since a lot of people just write whacked-out endings that make sense in a labyrinthine way without offering explanation. But I think after saying that Ellasar had gotten what he wanted when Satan made him his new God, it doesn’t need further explanation. But what happens in the ending is great because Ellasar really did seem misguided in thinking he could betray God and get away with it.

Overall, I really liked this story. I’m a sucker for Heaven and Hell stuff but it’s good besides that. What I would add near the beginning is a concrete explanation of just how extremely long Ellasar’s journey is. As I read I was thinking to myself, why does he need to make allies and stuff like an adventure story? Also, some pacing seems off. For instance, you spend a lot of time on the Behemoth getting Gregor, that scene should probably be half as long.

You do have a lot of good scenes and I can tell you spent a while thinking up the story.

I guess another thing I’d add is that Ellasar’s spells bored me in that he always did the same thing, getting into cross position and mumbling. But what the spells do is interesting.

And about Ellasar in general, I’d beef up his character more in terms of personality. He seems to have a pretty generic attitude and voice.

I’m not sure what to think about describing the orb Ellasar carries as “about the size of a globe.” It had the hallmarks of good foreshadowing when it turns out that the orb is a kind of image of Earth. But by itself it reads like a really clumsy comparison that’s out of place.


Dawn by Jam Stunna

This whole thing struck me as a pretty generic fantasy story. It certainly doesn’t read like a bad example of fantasy, and you constrain the stiltedness of the language and dialogue a bit, but it’s still there. Lines like “My pouch! It contained my gold!” are what I’m talking about. “Contained” is just the wrong word there, a person is more likely to say something like “it had all my gold in it!” Even though the first way is shorter which is usually better, it is worse because it is something that the character wouldn’t really say. Also, characters having weird-colored eyes is in almost every amateur fantasy story.

Also, not enough Adherence to Prompt. There is a lot of death, but death and the afterlife are different things. It comes in at the end in a few ways, but it’s not really a major element. The sword containing all the soulds it has killed was pretty interesting.

I was relieved not to find any “I’m a WUMMAN who can be as good as a MAUGHN” in this story.

Something about the suspense in this story is lacking. It’s decent but it could be better. I think part of it is that Reene seems invincible when she is fighting, and even though she gets injured she never really comes close to dying. Like in the fight against the guy in her room in the beginning, she is in a situation where she might die but then she just cuts the guy’s head off effortlessly. Part of it is also the lack of realism in some of the fight scenes—like the one I just talked about, heads almost never really come off, and a sword would be totally ruined if you jammed it into plate armour. Even though it’s a fantasy story, the fighting shouldn’t read like fantasy fighting, if you know what I mean. It gives off the sense that the main characters are in no danger except in ‘boss fight’ situations, and in stories like that the good guys always win.

Also, I think you only had one typo, but I forget what it was. You seem to have paid a lot of attention to the writing in this story since the whole thing reads clearly and all the scenes have something interesting. The pacing is good since you show all the important things and skim over boring things. My advice to you is, if you want to continue writing fantasy, you should work to differentiate yourself from most amateur fantasy writers, since the worst thing about fantasy is the lack of creativity even though fantasy should be all rights be the most creative genre. Try looking at Limyaael’s rants to get a good grasp of what most fantasy writers are doing wrong:

http://www.forresterlabs.com/limyaael/titlelistall

Meeting Loved Ones by Sandtiger

What immediately jumps out at me about this story is the lack of specific detail. Like “Enormous buildings.” What do the buildings look like besides being enormous? Are they so enormous that they’re bigger than any building on Earth, or just regular enormous? Do they look old or new? Stuff like that.

Also, there is a lot of tense confusion. It starts in present tense then moves to past tense then jumps around for a bit, then settles into past tense.

There’s also a lot of vague “sensing” going on. I can see how that fits with the story, but it’s boring to read, so you should reconsider it. Instead of sensing stuff the protagonist should hear it or be physically pulled in like a magnet or something. Did the beings of knowledge “seem strong in themselves” because of the way they stood, or the way they addressed each other, or something?

You should try to vary your sentence structure more.

Your last two paragraphs could be merged together sorta. You describe the nonverbal transfer of knowledge twice

I like the idea of the afterlife you have here, it really seems like a higher plane of existence.

Also, your story almost entirely lacks conflict. I think that's okay, since it's just a short kinda sketch of an idea, Also, you could beef up the characterization a bit. Show more dialog, like the thoughts of the protagonist you gave.
 

raul

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Thanks for the comments Redcell. Regarding what you stated, my only defenses are:

1.) The introduction of Ellasar's name late in the story is really not a huge issue. A prime example is the original print of Stephen King's The Gunslinger, where Roland is not named until about 100 pages later and is simply referred to as "the gunslinger." It really is more of style taste more than mistake. It might be a better practice to introduce names right away, but if you recall H.G. Well's The Time Machine, you'll remember that none of the characters have true names and are simply labeled by their professions. I'd say it's more of a style aspect more than a mistake, really, but I see your point. But just so you understand, that is my type of style, not for every story, but for this piece, yes.

2.) The ending I admit was slightly rushed in the beginning so I slowed it down and actually added to it to make it more complete. It didn't feel right when I was done, so I added more.

3.) The Behemoth and Gregor scene was long only because I was trying to develop the Behemoth as an actual character of God. He is almost a protector in Hell, although he is still evil. But even so, if he was created by God, as I fabricated, then he must have some slight "good-guy" aspects, so the scene was really to develop his personality. Was it a little long? Perhaps.

4.) Yeah, the globe reference wasn't the best, but I struggled with that for many days and I am out of good ideas. However, I am open to suggestions. (Insert smiley face)

5.) Finally, perhaps the most interesting thing you raised: Why did Ellasar go alone? Well, first, Ellasar is feeling rather confident that he has two great beasts at his side and secondly, there is where all my research kicks in. Here is why I made that decision.

Simply put, the Leviathan is generally a symbol of anarchy and other related things. According to my sources, the Leviathan was destroyed by God and thus I felt he would hate any plan to end the war between Heaven and Hell. Also, in my research, the Behemoth and Leviathan are meant to lock in an eternal battle, but I incorporate the Ziz as well. So this was an oppurtunity to show Ellasar's over-confidence, and leave the 3 monsters to the eternal battle they were meant to be apart of.

I thank you for reading Redcell, and I hope you understand my comments on your comments (haha). I will do what I can to make some corrections, but ultimately, I feel that the story is complete. I am sorry the Redheads aren't used for better things, but remember this is only one occasion, haha! Thank you also for a timely response and a great prompt.

EDIT: Hmm.. after a quick re-read, I may give a little more "umph" to why Ellasar goes alone. If he is confident as I mentioned, he should gloat about it perhaps. Hmm...A simply sentence could be worked into his dialogue.
 

tmw_redcell

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I'll revise mine when it gets gets unlocked.
That probably won't happen on time so you're better off editing it in Word or whatever, then posting the revisions when it re-opens. You guys will probably have to PM me the revisions, or even e-mail them as an attachment.

Also another thing regarding the editing, these are in online format now (with line breaks between every paragraph) but if you want to put them in print format (with just indents for every paragraph) then do so. Not a big deal but it'll look a bit nicer, I think.

Raul: Don't worry about defending your story. I wasn't really docking points for those specific things I brought up, those were just a few pointers I guess.
 

SunriseW12

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Oh Jesus, how could I say she had blue eyes...

I think I was supposed to add a "except" in there somewhere. Like, "She was like the stereotypical gorgeous blonde with blue eyes, but EXCEPT instead of the blue eyes," etc...

Man I can't believe I overlooked that.

also lol losing horribly
 

raul

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That probably won't happen on time so you're better off editing it in Word or whatever, then posting the revisions when it re-opens. You guys will probably have to PM me the revisions, or even e-mail them as an attachment.

Also another thing regarding the editing, these are in online format now (with line breaks between every paragraph) but if you want to put them in print format (with just indents for every paragraph) then do so. Not a big deal but it'll look a bit nicer, I think.

Raul: Don't worry about defending your story. I wasn't really docking points for those specific things I brought up, those were just a few pointers I guess.
Ahh, understood. However, regarding revisions, I probably wont have any time to really give this any significant editing time and honestly, I think I am pretty happy with it, so is it ok to submit as is ?
 

tmw_redcell

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Yeah it's okay if you don't edit. But everyone will see your typos and stuff! Everyone!

Also if you guys could include a picture to have as a sort of cover image for your story, that would be great.
 

raul

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Yeah it's okay if you don't edit. But everyone will see your typos and stuff! Everyone!

Also if you guys could include a picture to have as a sort of cover image for your story, that would be great.
GASP! EVERYONE! Ok one quick edit can't hurt. Can the picture me computer generated? I have zero artistic ability.
 

tmw_redcell

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You don't have to make the cover image yourself, heh. But if you want to, go for it. And thanks for deciding to edit, even if you only clean up some stuff here and there.
 

SunriseW12

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Ok, I'm going to do what raul did and analyze your criticism more:

1) Ok yeah I am redundant

2) Awesome

3) First, I am not good at dialogue. I always end up sounding like some sort of cheesy sitcom. But also, secondly, I decided not to put the dialogue in because I think it adds to the kind of confused bliss of what the guy is going through. I mean, you definitely aren't wrong, it IS too generalized and whatnot, but that's what it is supposed to be. Not very concrete or tangible. It may suck to you, but hey, that's how I saw his version of heaven.

4, 5, and 6) fix'd kthx

7) Ok, it might not be the most original thing ever, but I don't think it was too bad. I tried to make the climax of the story the part where he gets brought back, and the kind of surprise ending of him not being in the "happy hospital." But yknow, I guess its kind of overused. Kind of.

8) If I put, "I got a New York City phonebook from the nurse..." would that be better? Or should I just say he is in a NYC hospital?

But that would make it dumb because he was out in the boonies driving around, and they took all the trouble to get him to a NYC hospital? WHAT A CONUNDRUM.

9) Once again, it was supposed to be for the atmosphere of the whole thing, but I don't know how I would change it if I wanted to.

Also, I am just curious, did you figure out that the "jolts" were from the defibrillator? I don't know if I made it too obvious or not too obvious.
 

Tom

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these comments are great, redcell. especially right now, your effort and timely turnaround are appreciated.

Hopefully I did not offend by promising a submission and going back on my word. Good luck with your project.
 

tmw_redcell

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Thanks Tom. And yeah it's cool you didn't submit since I got enough anyway. The goal was to have six authors total, including me, so now I have Sunrise, Raul, and Jam from this contest and and old story from Scav and EE will be finishing up his entry on time so I'm good. And yeah, one of the reasons I worked to get these done so fast was to try to mitigate the WWYP7 public outrage.

Sunrise:

7) What I thought the unoriginal part was more the angle of "person has a troubled life but then has a near-death experience that puts things in perspective or whatever and they're okay." I thought the angle of the illusionary visitors and awakening to an empty hospital room was pretty good.

8) Yeah, "New York City phone book" should be fine, though even then you'd probably want to give a borough like Manhattan or Queens or wherever she lives since NYC is such a big place they each probably need separate phone books for these.

Yeah I got the defibrillator thing.
 

SunriseW12

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The first one

Also, for our OWN covers, how is it supposed to be set up? What are the dimension, etc. Because I really don't have much of an idea.
 

tmw_redcell

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Just get a picture that can fit onto regular 8.5 x 11 paper. Don't put your story's title on it, I'll do that.
 

raul

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Also I got two cover images for the whole thing. Which should I choose?

http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=afterlife2kw4.gif

or

http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=afterlife3dq9.gif

I like the lines in the first one but I'm not sure how well they work with the banner-thingy the title is in. The second one is nice but I think it might be too simple.
The first one is fine, the second one would be great if the words were black and the backgroundwas red.
 

raul

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These are the best I could find on a yahoo image search:








I like the first and third pictures the best and I think they would be great if the rest of the cover for my personal title page was black.

I would make my own but sadly my history seminar paper has me very busy.
 

Crimson King

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Redcell, I like the first one better, if, and only if, you decide to make it clear and have the cover of the book a different color like black, grey, or something of that sort. A clear book jacket, of course, only works on hard covered books. If it does go into mass production, I think you should (if using my idea) vary the book color randomly. Each would have a different meaning to someone. Pink book with that jacket would evoke so much more emotion in one person than say a blue one might.

Just an idea.
 

tmw_redcell

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When I go to Kinko's I'll ask if they can do that, that would be pretty slick. The image already has a transparent background so it should work easily. They certainly won't get mass produced however, since this project wasn't given funding this year I'll just be making enough copies for the professor, contest winners, and whoever.

Although I am considering making it a burlier, more ongoing project after making one version for the class.

And yeah Raul I will probably use the third one you posted.
 

raul

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When I go to Kinko's I'll ask if they can do that, that would be pretty slick. The image already has a transparent background so it should work easily. They certainly won't get mass produced however, since this project wasn't given funding this year I'll just be making enough copies for the professor, contest winners, and whoever.

Although I am considering making it a burlier, more ongoing project after making one version for the class.

And yeah Raul I will probably use the third one you posted.
That's fine. I think that is a better picture anyway. Also, the transparent cover sounds AMAZING.
 

Jam Stunna

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Thanks for the review, Redcell. Haha, it's funny, I actually went back and added the eye color thing later. Rookie mistake ;)! It's also funny that you described the battles as "boss fights", considering that this story was very heavily influenced by Fire Emblem. This is good, it gives me a reason to take the break I've been meaning to take from writing fantasy since I suck at it.

Good luck to everyone, and thanks again Redcell.
 

tmw_redcell

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Thanks for the review, Redcell. Haha, it's funny, I actually went back and added the eye color thing later. Rookie mistake ;)! It's also funny that you described the battles as "boss fights", considering that this story was very heavily influenced by Fire Emblem. This is good, it gives me a reason to take the break I've been meaning to take from writing fantasy since I suck at it.

Good luck to everyone, and thanks again Redcell.
I really did think of Fire Emblem during that town battle scene.
 

SunriseW12

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Ok yeah I have no idea for a cover picture.

I dont think an actual picture would even be very good for the story, yknow?
 

tmw_redcell

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Okay, so I got the Early Edition together. It comes in at 86 pages, including my two stories and short preface. Heh, the original requirement was 20 pages. But Jam's and Raul's stories each surpass that by themselves.

I'm leaving the title page thing out for this edition that I will be showing my class and handing in.

Soon I will put together a much better edition, and that is the one that I will give the contest winner and sell to whoever else.

If it prints okay at Kinkos tomorrow then it will look pretty badass.
 

tmw_redcell

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Then I can probably accept it. I don't need to be some kinda certified guy or anything, right?

Though i won't have details on it for a while. My work is still not done for the class, I will be revising my two stories still, and EE still has to finish Ultimatum for real. Plus I want to design it better and get it printed at a real printing house instead of Kinko's. It shouldn't be too long though, my revisions are due in two weeks anyway.

Also VIRG FINISH JUDGING FINISH JUDGING FINISH JUDGING DO IT

DO IT

DO

IT

FINISH JUDGING

F
I
N
I
S
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JUDGING
 

raul

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Then I can probably accept it. I don't need to be some kinda certified guy or anything, right?

Though i won't have details on it for a while. My work is still not done for the class, I will be revising my two stories still, and EE still has to finish Ultimatum for real. Plus I want to design it better and get it printed at a real printing house instead of Kinko's. It shouldn't be too long though, my revisions are due in two weeks anyway.

Also VIRG FINISH JUDGING FINISH JUDGING FINISH JUDGING DO IT

DO IT

DO

IT

FINISH JUDGING

F
I
N
I
S
H


JUDGING
BEST POST EVER.

Ok Red, a money works as such: I pay cash to either the bank or any place that creates money orders, such as wal-mart for example and they give me a check for a certain amount that I make out to you and then I mail it to you. When you get it, you go to the bank and cash it. This is different from a aregular check because a regular check can bounce, but this cannot.

So let us say it costs $20 for your finished product. I go get a money order for $20, pay the $20 plus whatever it costs to create the money order (probably comes out to $22 and change or something), I write your name on the money order check and mail it to you and you go cash it.
 
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